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This topic contains 21 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  anita 1 week, 1 day ago.

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  • #320641

    Luke
    Participant

    Very small short story of the lead up to this. 6 Months ago my wife revealed she is a lesbian and left me. This was a month after my Dad had revealed that he had gotten drunk and cheated on my Mum. They are also now getting a divorce. I have been using therapy and antidepressants the last 6 months and trying to use the crappy events of this year to evaluate myself and things that need to change.

    I have been reading a lot of books about abandonment and getting over the past trauma that comes up after a breakup. One of the big things I’m struggling with is where does everyone end and I begin. We all get influenced by our parents and family growing up, then make concessions in a relationship to keep the peace. Whilst also altering to different situations and to align with our peers. Considering that the two biggest people in my life have acted/ revealed themselves to be different than I thought. By association I feel very off balance and not knowing who I am or should be.

    From growing up wanting acceptance from my Dad who was always complaining about things, my Mum always having a victim complex from a lot of illness while I was growing up. Then finally met someone who at the time loved me and wanted to marry me (I’m guessing to full-fill her own ‘model’ of what life is supposed to be). I adapted to have OUR life and make her happy. Finally found my career path a few years ago but obviously, we want to make sure that we are impressing our boss and to fit in with the team.

    I know its only been 6 months but while I’m in pieces on the floor I’m thinking I should work out where the insecurities come from, the crutches, bandaids, giant holes and patterns.

     

     

    #320703

    anita
    Participant

    Dear Luke:

    This is what you shared about your parents during your childhood in your two threads: that there were “fighting  and screaming matches” between them, that your father “was always complaining about things” and that your mother “always having a victim complex from a lot of illness”.

    About now your estranged wife you wrote that during your marriage “She had always had plenty to say about my flaws.. chastising me”, and about that marriage you wrote: “No relationship is perfect but it was as close to perfect as I had known so far”. Your relationship with your wife was better than your relationships with your father and mother. Your father must have complained about you, not just “about things” that are not you. So you got used to it. Maybe your wife complained less, and that was an improvement. Your wife’s light hearted attitude was definitely an improvement over your mother’s “victim complex”.

    In life we experience things by comparison: better or worse, but better is often not good, it is only an improvement, as in not-as-bad.

    I figure that as an adult you were “negative about a situation ahead of time” because as a child situations were negative a whole lot of the time. As an adult, you were “not being confident enough to sing and dance” because when you did, as a child, you were negatively criticized.

    You wrote: “So something bad happens… then the next thing happens… and on and on… worrying about the future.. assuming that something would go wrong. Then when It did, I at least felt a bit prepared”- this was your childhood experience. Understandably you did not turn out to be a worry-free optimistic adult. Instead you do what you did before: prepare for the next bad thing- the next screaming match between your parents, the next time your father complains, the next time your mother complains and so forth.

    In this thread you wrote: “One of the big things I’m struggling with is where does everyone end and I begin”- a very good question for a human aka a social animal to ask. This question wouldn’t be difficult for a turtle. But a baby human begins adjusting to who his parents are soon after birth, if not before. You would have a very different personality if you had different parents. Our brain is formed as a result of ongoing interactions and experiences with our caretakers, usually it is our parents.

    So you figure: I worry because my parents were this way and that way, now what? Problem is that this understanding doesn’t change your worrying nature, it is an automatic brain function, to worry.

    What does work is taking on the difficult and long, long, long-term process of learning to perceive the reality of our childhoods and the reality since as it was and is, truly. To abandon delusions and make-believe thoughts, ideas and beliefs. The more you see reality as it is, the more able you are to adjust to  it. To adjust to Reality, mind you, and to dissolve the many ways you adjusted to your dysfunctional parents.

    Post again anytime.

    anita

    #320735

    Inky
    Participant

    Hi Luke,

    If it makes you feel better, I was in a relationship where the guy told me he was bi and we broke up because he wanted to experiment.  And my dad cheated on my mom.

    For the guy I felt like: “Were the two years we were together a lie? Do my preferences not matter? Why didn’t you tell me in the beginning? Why did you take away MY choice before anything started? Because I wouldn’t have chosen you! Sorry not sorry!”

    And for my dad I felt: “Why would you choose a skanky ho over our mother and over us? Who are you to judge me? And why should I seek your approval? Good luck with that!”

    So, mistakes were made.

    The good news? You’re not the one who gets to feel bad. Ever.

    Best,

    Inky

     

    #320749

    Luke
    Participant

    All good points. I’m finding the therapy helping a little bit and trying to read up on abandonment and past pain issues.

    My ex breaking up with me was yeah the same really. I knew she had been bi in the past and she never denied that. She also was very promiscuous and slept with a bunch of people and when we first dated obviously we were very passionate and then it tapered off once we got married. Which was kind of a red flag. At late 20’s shouldn’t have been like that really. On top of all the other people she slept with just fine. Very confusing and hurts (I know I shouldn’t hold on to the ego thing) but my ego in terms of aren’t I better than all those other people ? And yeah my Dad the same thing. Why wouldn’t you go to counseling or talk to someone if you’re unhappy instead of breakup everything in a crappy way.  Gets to the point where I do gestures or say things a way that my Dad does and it just hurts now. All the stuff that I did with my wife, I still eat the same meals etc. All the memories. Feel like I want a reset. Can I just start over without all this stuff that’s influenced me for the last 31 years. I know you say I’m not the one who gets to feel bad, but its still painful and I feel bad that I need to change. Still torn between well why should I have to do all of this because other people screwed me over.

    Should I just not every worry about anything because its always going to be either better or worse. People are going to do what they’re going to do so I shouldn’t attach very much at all? I didn’t do that with my marriage, didn’t have one foot out the door or looking for something else, maybe I should? I’ve never really related to my Dad, should I just leave it where it is ? The not knowing who I am is just making me doubt that I’m going to make the right decision about these things. Having someone else to ground past decisions on made it well more grounded. Did what my Dad said to keep the peace and avoid conflict. Did what my Wife wanted for the same reasons and because I felt guilty about having to subject her to living with my parents for 6 months when we first moved to Canada and her not being able to work for a year and a half. So I helped her with starting her photography business and then once shes self sufficient shes now lesbian and left.

    Don’t really feel like I ever want to put whatever I am in that position again.

    #320809

    Inky
    Participant

    Hi Again,

    The good news is no one can hurt us as deeply as our parents could. And you went through the classic tragedy of abandonment through a spouse. So, going forward, the rest of your relationships with others will be simple and happier by comparison.

    If someone starts acting like your father or ex, you will sniff that crap out from 100 miles away and say, “No thank you!”

    You get to start over! You get to eat the way you want, dress radically different without commentary, watch your shows all the time, redecorate, travel, buy a motorcycles, whatever!

    You do you!

    Inky

    #320855

    anita
    Participant

    Dear Luke:

    You started your first thread with: “..my Ex Came out to me as a lesbian 5 months ago”, and your second with “6 months ag0 my wife revealed she is a lesbian and left me”- leading one to think that the reason for the ending of the marriage was a matter of sexual orientation, a matter of your wife surprisingly (to you) coming out as a lesbian.

    But in your recent post here you wrote: “I knew she had been bi in the past and she never denied that”. So she is bisexual, not homosexual. And you knew about it a long time ago, before you married her perhaps.

    You shared before that only two months after the break up she was hooking up with random people, that she is promiscuous (the words you used). In your recent post you wrote that before you married her, “She also was very promiscuous and slept with  a bunch of people”.

    Notice: a heterosexual person may be promiscuous or not, same true to a homosexual and a bi sexual person. A bi sexual person can choose to marry any one gender and be monogamous.

    In your previous thread you wrote: “I’m trying to see it in terms of sunken investment. I put all my chips on one number and unfortunately the house won”- you put all your chips on “a very promiscuous” woman, a woman with a history of a very promiscuous behavior.

    In your recent post you wrote “People are going to do what they’re going to do”- but we don’t have to be that helpless, victims of whatever it is that people are going to do. We can make informed choices, better choices than before. In your case, you had in front of you a very promiscuous woman. Better not marry her and hope for the best, better take your time and choose thoughtfully- is this a good investment, should I proceed, or not yet. Maybe I need to better figure it out, and so forth.

    Better you take some responsibility for choosing the wrong woman to marry than view yourself, in this case, as a victim of whatever people-are-going-to-do.

    (I didn’t understand what you shared about your father in your most recent post. If you want to, you are welcome to explain it).

    anita

    #320971

    Luke
    Participant

    ” But in your recent post here you wrote: “I knew she had been bi in the past and she never denied that”. So she is bisexual, not homosexual. And you knew about it a long time ago, before you married her perhaps.”‘

    When she broke up with me she stated that she is now Lesbian not straight or  Bi, she doesn’t feel anything for men anymore. I just knew that the component of her having done things with women was present before is what I meant. In terms of her promiscuity. This was in her late teens. I’m sure a lot of people have that as their late teens and then go onto have long serious relationships. I was never like that cause I had a hard time convincing girls to go out with me and I didn’t have a lot of that experience when I was younger due to a lot of insecurity. I’m sure her’s was based on insecurity too just at the other end of the spectrum where she was able to say and do the right things to get people into bed with her. I knew of her promiscuity and such because she told me and also that before we dated she had two long term relationships as well. I can’t really be faulted for thinking that it was just a late teens kind of behaviour right ? I was also having the insecurity of ‘ Hey, someone finally wants me lets not let go of this relationship’.  Which I understand now is something I should have been mindful of but when you spend the whole of your life up to that point being ignored and feeling like an outcast. The someone finally gets you and wants to be with you, you can put a lot of blinkers on to keep it going. But as I say to my mind, her past was in the past and she was now in a monogamous straight marriage.

    The thing about my Dad was just that I say things, or motion in certain ways or have a way of saying things that I have inherited from my Dad that are essentially just shadows of him in me. I feel like I should shed all of that stuff.

    #320975

    anita
    Participant

    Dear Luke:

    I will be able to read and reply to your recent post in about 18 hours from now, possibly earlier.

    anita

    #321083

    anita
    Participant

    Dear Luke:

    The way you have shared about your now estranged wife shows how little you think of her, particularly her promiscuity. Of course your anger at her is evident (and understandable) but what is also evident is your low opinion of her. You didn’t present a woman who should be trusted, one who values anything more than the value of what-feels-good-at-the-moment.

    In accordance to your presentation of her, I will not be surprised if she lied to you when she said that she is now a lesbian, using this lie as an excuse to divorce you. After all, it is difficult and politically incorrect to argue with a person who is coming out as this or that sexual orientation. And according to your presentation of her she is not dependable enough to maintain this or that sexual orientation, because whatever feels good, with whomever it feels good, is what she will do.

    About your insecurity regarding dating earlier in life, do you want to share more about what that was about? I wonder if it connected to your father, something about a “shadow of him in (you)”, something you “should shed”.

    anita

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 4 days ago by  anita.
    #321109

    Luke
    Participant

    Anita,

    I think you’re miss-understanding what I’m saying and also who I am as a person. I don’t have a low opinion of her and even when she revealed to me when we started dating that she had these experiences. Also are everyone’s personalities solidified in their late teens ? I’d hope not, people age and change as they go depending on the situation. That would in fact mean I would have been very insensitive at the time to be like “No I don’t want a relationship with you, you’ll always be that way”.

    I didn’t have a judgement in terms of orientation. I’ve never judged anyone on their orientation, I have close family and friends who are gay. The point I was making is that the prior information I had, validated what she is saying. When she came out to me and we we’re both crying she kept saying that she was ‘ born broken and wasn’t right’. I in the midst of breaking up comforted and consoled her and told her that there is nothing wrong with her. In subsequent meetings I told her that it is a separate thing from our relationship and that I don’t think she should feel shame or anything about it. I also bought her a pride shirt when pride festivities were happening.

    So saying,

    “In accordance to your presentation of her, I will not be surprised if she lied to you when she said that she is now a lesbian, using this lie as an excuse to divorce you. ”

    Actually feels quite hurtful and un-called for. I don’t think she would go to the lengths of lying to me her family and friends that she is a lesbian if she just wanted to get out of the marriage.

    #321117

    anita
    Participant

    Dear Luke:

    I didn’t suggest that you have a low of opinion of her because of her sexual orientation, whatever it may be, or that you have a low opinion about anyone because of their sexual orientation. What I did suggest is that you clearly expressed a low opinion of her based on her being “very promiscuous” as you put it repeatedly, not just before you met her but after she broke up with you.

    anita

    #321123

    Luke
    Participant

    I guess so. I don’t know if its a low opinion of her because she is being promiscuous.

    Or a feeling of missing out for me. Because I never had the confidence that she had/has in that area of just being able to interact with random people in that way. Whereas I am more dubious and unsure of myself when it comes to that. I have expressed that to her in the past, that I feel like I missed out on those experiences at that age in comparison with her. But also expressed that its always quality over quantity for me.

    I think I’m just angry that she’s able to get over that aspect of our relationship so easily when I’m definitely not able to just go to a bar and pick someone up or jump on tinder. I don’t feel that’s the right way to deal with a relationship ending.  Makes me feel like I wasn’t that big of a deal.

    I don’t know whats going on in her head, I’m not sure If I ever have known sometimes. Or that maybe she doesn’t know whats going on with herself sometimes.

    #321127

    anita
    Participant

    Dear Luke:

    I don’t value promiscuity, don’t look up to that behavior as something .. noble or admirable. Therefore, I think that I can relate to your feeling about her promiscuity. During the marriage- she was not promiscuous at all, never cheated on you, that is?

    anita

    #321137

    Luke
    Participant

    I don’t know how to feel I guess. She was always the easy going, happy go lucky person and I was the sturdy reliable guy trying to keep it together. She would always say I need to be freer and just let go. I would be the one trying to insert some realism into a situation or try to avoid drama or upset. Just feel like maybe I should have been more like her. Now that its gone, I feel like I’ve messed up a big part of my life.

    I don’t think she ever cheated on me. Nothing really suggests that she would have. She was always busy and there isn’t a time that she didn’t have an explanation for.  She would go out with her friends a few nights a month to go dancing and drinking and would come home in a bad way in the early morning. She would say that that they sometimes ended up in random people’s apartments and when they’d start doing drugs she’d leave. One time she showed me a video of them all dancing in a club and a random guy was grinding in her and she was just laughing saying ‘ this guy wouldn’t leave me alone, we just kept moving away and he’d follow’ When I’d say to her, ‘why wouldn’t you tell him off or tell security you’re feeling uncomfortable’ She just blew it off as a guy being gross in the club.

    During the breakup, I asked why now?, whats special about now? She said nothing, she just was certain and felt like she was lying by omission. So she talked to her lesbian friend and she said that she should just tell me. But she was also saying that she needed to do it before something happened, she said she was jealous of her lesbian friends and she was worried that she would end up cheating on me. Like my Dad did to my Mum.

    #321141

    anita
    Participant

    Dear Luke:

    During your marriage, your wife went out without you to night clubs a few nights a month with friends, dancing and drinking, after the club or clubs, she and her friends “ended up in random people’s apartments”, and after that she “would come home in a bad way in the early morning”. She showed you a video from one of those nights showing “a random guy was grinding in her”.

    You were okay with that???

    anita

     

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