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July 28, 2024 at 6:54 am #435451anitaParticipant
Dear Helcat:
I hope that your pain and anxiety lessen and lessen and that your nervous system recovers!
“advice is much appreciated. I think that I might have to practice being more assertive“- I observed how very sensitive young children are to adults’ disapproval and anger. Therefore, if I was a mother, whenever I would need to assert myself with my child, I’d be careful about the expressions of anger in my face and voice. I would want to sound firm when I say No!, perhaps a tiny bit angry, for a few seconds, just enough to put some strength into my No!/ limit-setting, but not more than a bit and not for long.
anita
July 28, 2024 at 7:41 am #435455HelcatParticipantHi Anita
Thank you for your well wishes as well as for your advice. Yes, I would agree that young children are very sensitive. It seems to me that they take things very literally. Even more so than myself. Our son briefly cried when we playfully teased each other as a joke. Then we had to show him that we were just playing and joking and group hug. He also cried when he was laughed at because he was doing something funny and he got a hug to cheer him up. Bless his soul, we try not to laugh when he does funny things now. I think he is more prone to misinterpreting my husband’s behaviour. So it would be a good thing to talk to him about it.
I will do my best to work on the right level of firmness and be aware of feelings of anger around my son. I am usually not angry and if anything probably underselling the importance of me asking him not to do these things. At the moment I am watching him constantly but he will need to remember not to do these things to be safe when I am not around.
Love and best wishes! ❤️🙏
July 29, 2024 at 11:02 am #435524anitaParticipantDear Helcat:
You are welcome!
“Our son briefly cried when we playfully teased each other as a joke. Then we had to show him that we were just playing and joking and group hug“- just the right response to his distress, a group hug: excellent!
“I will do my best to work on the right level of firmness and be aware of feelings of anger around my son. I am usually not angry and if anything probably underselling the importance of me asking him not to do these things“- in my lifetime experience, the way I perceived anger, was that anger is a bad emotion, dangerous and scary. Whenever I felt angry, I felt that there was something very wrong with me. I didn’t realize that it’s okay to feel angry, and that there is a positive usefulness to anger.
It is only recently that I feel (beyond understanding it intellectually) that anger is necessary for one’s mental health, that it’s as good of an emotion as any other emotion, and it needs to be expressed in appropriate ways. I suppose it’s about not overreacting to anger, on one hand, and not suppressing anger (underreacting to it), on the other hand.
is this little share useful to you?
anita
July 29, 2024 at 11:44 am #435530HelcatParticipantHi Anita
Thank you for sharing! I’m glad that you are able to have a healthy relationship with anger.
I can identify with that. I think at different points in my life I have had different relationships with anger.
Until the past few years I suppressed and repressed my anger because I too learned that it was dangerous to express anger.
I think therapy which taught me how to identify signs of abuse (I had pretty big gaps with that before therapy) made me a bit overly protective and defensive. Trauma also had a factor in that of course.
I have been working on being less defensive and being more forgiving.
I would agree with all of your points about anger.
I think I get angry with myself mostly these days. I’m trying to work on that.
Love and best wishes! ❤️🙏
July 29, 2024 at 1:28 pm #435535anitaParticipantDear Helcat: I would like to reply when I am back to the computer, in a few hours.
anita
July 29, 2024 at 6:34 pm #435547anitaParticipantDear Helcat:
“Until the past few years I suppressed and repressed my anger because I too learned that it was dangerous to express anger“- I very much relate. In my experience, as I tried to suppress anger (to intentionally push it down), the anger found its own ways to express itself.
“I have been working on being less defensive and being more forgiving” – same here.
“I think I get angry with myself mostly these days. I’m trying to work on that“- these days, when I make a mistake, or I suspect that I made a mistake, surprisingly- I go to self- empathy first, as a first destination, instead of going to anger at myself. It works way, way better in leading me to become a better person for myself, and for others.
I respond badly to anger, others’ and my own, at least to.. more anger than I can handle. I respond well to empathy (for myself and for others).
Thank you for your posts on the other thread, your efforts to help are very much appreciated.
anita
July 30, 2024 at 1:13 am #435555HelcatParticipantHi Anita
That is a good point. I believe that my anger, often shows up as anxiety, when I was younger it would show up as sadness.
Focusing on empathy first whenever anger or anxiety arises sounds like a great idea. Thank you for sharing it. I’m sure it will be very helpful.
You have a really good level of self awareness of what works and doesn’t work for you.
I can cope with people expressing anger in a healthy way, for about 30 minutes. It does make me feel very vulnerable though. I agree it is easier to communicate when people don’t express anger as anger and instead communicate as you say with empathy. This is a relatively new thing that I learned to do this year. It I also makes me feel vulnerable but in a different way. I think there is more trust whereas I tend to be distrusting of anger because of my experiences.
I appreciate your thoughtful and kind thoughts as always!
Love and best wishes! ❤️🙏
July 30, 2024 at 1:24 am #435556HelcatParticipantI was thinking yesterday. It occurred to me that trauma was the root my anxiety. It may sound silly that it had not occurred to me before. On some level, I have been aware of that, but not as deeply. It is crazy how deeply these things can go.
I am human and I believe that pain is bad and try to fix it. Give it importance. Try to avoid it instead of accepting it and letting it pass.
I am human and I look for patterns and invent meaning for things that perhaps should not have a meaning. Making a mountain out of a mole hill. Sometimes pain is just pain.
July 30, 2024 at 7:52 am #435582anitaParticipant❤️
August 16, 2024 at 7:16 am #436257HelcatParticipantI have been learning more about attachment styles and negative communication cycles.
What I’ve learned about insecure attachment is that one person tends to take responsibility for emotional regulation and the other tends to take responsibility for trying to resolve problems. In healthy attachment, both parties do both things.
I’ve learned that the past conflict patterns and unmet needs with particularly with parents shape how we communicate during disagreements. Triggers are very much involved.
I also learned about attachment needs. There are various needs. I’ll include the list below.
To feel close to you, I need to know:
You value me and our relationship
You’ll respond to me in moments where I reach out to you
You’ll reach to me in support during times of need
You appreciate me and my efforts
My needs as an individual matter to you
You hold me in high esteem
You are willing to see and understand me
My feelings are valid to you
You respect me
There’s a clear path to pleasing you
You see me as a successful partner
I can trust your love and loyalty
You can trust my love and loyalty
August 16, 2024 at 7:38 am #436258HelcatParticipantIt seems to me like different people prioritise different needs.
For me, I prioritise trust, respect, being seen and understood and my individual needs mattering.
Growing up, I didn’t have those things. I realised that I literally never had a single person care for my emotional needs as a child. My first experience of someone trying to meet my emotional needs was in therapy. I was always the person who took care of everyone else’s emotional needs and while mine were ignored.
There is still quite a bit of pain about that. Not as much as it used to be. It used to feel like a bottomless void when I was younger. Now it just feels like a sadness that lingers. Being rejected by not one, but two families is hard and it colours my life to this day.
I’m very focused on my son being happy and getting his childhood right because I don’t want him to suffer like I did.
There is a level of anxiety in my daily life and difficulties with conflict.
The past leaks into the present and it is hard.
On the plus side, my son smiled in his sleep. That makes me feel like I’ve done a good job. He laughs and smiles every day.
The relationship with my husband has suffered since I became pregnant and had a baby. We are trying to fix things and work together as a team but it is not easy.
August 16, 2024 at 7:46 am #436259HelcatParticipantPart of me feels secure in the relationship, but the part damaged by trauma doesn’t. 97% of the time our relationship is good. Since having a baby some of the things that have been said during arguments have hurt. Only 3 times. But the pain lingers in that part of me.
August 16, 2024 at 10:58 am #436268anitaParticipantDear Helcat:
“To feel close to you, I need to know: You value me and our relationship, You’ll respond to me in moments where I reach out to you… You hold me in high esteem, You are willing to see and understand me, My feelings are valid to you, You respect me.. I can trust your love and loyalty, You can trust my love and loyalty“- very well articulated: this is true to me too.
“Growing up, I didn’t have those things. I realised that I literally never had a single person care for my emotional needs as a child“- I could have written this.
“97% of the time our relationship is good“- congratulations for 97%!
“Since having a baby some of the things that have been said during arguments have hurt. Only 3 times. But the pain lingers in that part of me.“- my little prayer: may we forgive ourselves and others whenever possible, wherever appropriate. In this messy, chaotic world, may we focus on the positive and the orderly (the sane), and may we help each other be better and better people.
anita
August 16, 2024 at 1:54 pm #436278HelcatParticipantHi Anita
I can’t take credit for those attachments needs. I found it on a website called welldoing dot org. I thought the writer was excellent. Her name is Julie Menanno. I’m reading her book now Secure Love because her article Insecure Attachment in Couples: How to mend negative communication cycles was so good.
I can imagine. We have both been through some very similar things. It’s crazy how two people (our mothers) can be so alike on different sides of the world from different cultures. It is a shame that we had those experiences. No child deserves that.
You are right, thank you. If I can forgive my mother I can forgive my husband. He genuinely deserves it and is an amazing person. I’m very tired and I need to pace myself with the exercises in that book. Bringing up my trauma hurts a lot. But in a way it is helpful to be more aware of the different ways my past bleeds into the present day. I hope that it can help to unpick, the past from the present and make the present less painful, so the past can stay in the past.
I think my takeaway from the difficulties we have had is that tiredness and stress can make people act out of character. Sleep deprivation really is a form of torture.
I managed to control my feelings and talk to my husband from a place of vulnerability, it went well.
Love and best wishes! ❤️🙏
August 17, 2024 at 8:31 am #436303anitaParticipantDear Helcat:
I like the title of the book, “Secure Love“- I think that this is what love is about: to cause the object of our love to feel secure in our love (as much as it is possible to do). To be worthy of our loved-one’s trust.
“We have both been through some very similar things. It’s crazy how two people (our mothers) can be so alike on different sides of the world from different cultures. It is a shame that we had those experiences. No child deserves that“- It is indeed a shame, and neither little girl anita, nor little girl Helcat, two vulnerable girls on different sides of the world, deserved it.
“I’m very tired and I need to pace myself with the exercises in that book. Bringing up my trauma hurts a lot… I hope that it can help to unpick, the past from the present and make the present less painful, so the past can stay in the past“- it’s a gentle process, no rushing it, as you know.
I haven’t been in contact with my mother for over 10 years (May 2013 was the last time I talked to her on the phone. On Jan 2014 I sent her a message through my sister). A few days ago, I heard a mention of her and that she (still) has big pictures of me on the wall in her apartment. At first I felt a tinge of emotion/ guilt, as in my loving mother has pictures of me on her wall, and I am depriving her from contact with me. But then I realized it’s a lie, that her presentation (on the wall) is a false presentation.
A huge, necessary part in my eventual success (to a large extent) in separating the past from the present, and leaving the past in the past, has been separating truth from lies: she claimed (still claims, I am guessing), to love me, but a person who loves does not terrorize, and repeatedly, the supposed object of their love: never to address what they did, never to express regret for what they did, never to repent for what they did, and do their best to correct and make amends.
* by terrorize, I mean, in my case: explicit and expanded-upon threats to kill herself, threats to kill me, actual beatings (hitting my face/ body with her hands, arms and legs), and explicit and expanded-upon verbal shaming, false accusations, and guilt-tripping, going on and on and on until she was exhausted (and then accsing me for … exhausting her).
“Sleep deprivation really is a form of torture“- there was a time when I slept less than I do now, staying up at night thinking, so much so that for the longest time I just got up and posted on tiny buddha in the very early hours of every day, giving up the efforts to sleep. I sleep much better now, in comparison. An attitude change that helped me was, that at one point, while lying awake, I decided to no longer try to or expect to sleep. Instead, I expected to rest (while awake).
Another thing that helps sometimes is that while awake, since I am thinking (and can’t not-think), I choose to think not about current happenings and people in my life, but about someone or something that has never has been part of my life. it’s a more.. rest and sleep-compatible kind of thinking
“I managed to control my feelings and talk to my husband from a place of vulnerability, it went well.“- well done, Helcat!
anita
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