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Frustration with girls and dating…

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  • #69388
    Spidey
    Participant

    Hey everyone,

    It has finally come to the point where I need to express my frustration with girls and dating in general, and perhaps after when I explain this scenario, I can get some insight and opinions from females here on TinyBuddha.

    So last year I met an amazing girl in school. I only really socialized with her at school in our soccer class at the time, but from the details I dug up of her, she is an amazing girl. So I mustered up the courage to ask her out, and we did. Had a great time. In fact, we were seeing each other a bit here and there, getting together, going out. It was the most enjoyable dating experiences I’ve had since my ex.

    Now that I reflect back, I came across way to needy last year. I was overly texting her, always asking her out, and I was infatuated with her I guess you could say. She made it clear to me that we would only be friends and that’s it. Once I found out she was seeing another guy shortly after, I went offline and didn’t chat with her at all. The odd text here and there, but I definitely just moved on with myself. It was hard because from what I was aware of, we became good friends. We were opening up with each other, and it just felt natural and right being around her.

    So we go without contact for awhile, over spring and summer. It wasn’t until the end of summer actually when she sort of began messaging again. She was asking how I was doing, what I’ve been up to, and was wanting to get together and catch-up. She mentioned all this around mid-August. It wasn’t until half-way through September (a month later) we finally got together, hung out and had a good yak. It was nice seeing her again, being with her, etc. And we agreed that it would be nice to get together more and hangout again. And before we got together, I was studying in the library one day and she walked past me and we were chatting. And she remarkably said that her and her bf are no longer together. But how she said it, and telling me, just seemed kinda odd, as if she was hinting at something. Then we proceeded afterwards to get together and catch-up. Of course, this is all during when school is starting up for her again, and mind you she is a VERY BUSY girl. And I respect that. She volunteers, works 3 jobs, full-time school, I’m surprised that she handles this herself.

    Weeks go by, it’s getting closer to Halloween now. We’re still texting like every 4-5 days we get into nice conversations, but it isn’t daily. I don;t want to make the same mistake again and appear overly desperate. Week before halloween we were having an awesome convesation and I told her I’ve been hiking lots. Then she suggested that she wants to go for a hike with me!! Of course I’m excited, at the same time I don’t want to appear all desperate. So I mentioned back to her “when you get the free time, let me know and let’s go!” She agrees….

    Weeks go by. Hike idea she wanted to do doesn’t follow through. She’s extremely busy, I get that. She knows that I want to get together with her, but I told her when she’s available to let me know. Time goes by, we’re still texting, on and off. Our friendship lies more behind our phones, which is sad. Here’s the thing! I don’t want to ask her out on dates too often, nor do I want to be aloof for too long. It’s all about finding that happy medium. At the same time, I’m seeing if she is going to go back to the idea of getting together herself, but I feel if I wait for her to make the move, and I’m just on the outskirts doing my thing, that interest will be lost and she won’t initiate.

    Before exams we went up to the library a few times to study together. She invited me up one day, and I invited her up another day.

    Finally the semester is over, and she mentioned that when she is out of school that she’ll have more time to get together. It’s been over a week now since our last exams were done. Two weeks ago I asked her if she wanted to go see a movie one evening, very genuinely and authentically, but she was already busy. No worries… all good… the following week, after her last exam, I asked if she wanted to get together and go for a bite to eat, and see a show after (with no expectations!! honestly, we’re just friends and I just want to get to know her more and hangout with her more because she is an amazing person). She was busy that evening also. Two days later she initiates conversation and says “Hey! Hope your exam went well!”

    Here’s the thing. I am feeling so lost and confused with her and I don’t even know what to do anymore. Days she appears interested, and days where I’ve tried asking her out and she is busy. She came to me at the end of summer and wanted to get together, and wanted to hangout more was her intentions… but it has been very scarce. I’m on the borderline of if I should even try and ask her to get together anymore. I was going to let the rest of the week go, and see what her availability is next week, and attempt one more time in getting together with her (3rd time’s a charm?). If she denies me in anyway, I think I’m just going to let it go. It’s frustrating because I know she was or perhaps still is interested in getting together as friends, and that’s all I intend, but if she is constantly busy and not putting in effort to see me, it makes me feel like I’m the only one giving any attempt at our friendship… I don’t know… It is all frustrating.

    I just want to be good friends with her, and get to know her more. And I can only do so much behind a phone screen. I don’t want to message her every day and appear needy, nor do I want to be aloof for too long. I think asking her once a week for the past 3 weeks has been ideal, but if she turns down another offer, I think I’m hanging up the white flag on our friendship for quite some time.. I feel defeated putting the initiation in and nothing is coming of it, and she isn’t reciprocating back…

    I needed this vent. Thank you for anyone who read this all.

    #69390
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Spidey …

    I feel it’s my duty to answer your thread, as you’ve done so on a few of mine.
    It’s obvious that you’re really into this girl.
    I think we both know in the ideal world, you wouldn’t want her to be your friend.
    You’d want more.

    It’s so difficult to be logical and honest with yourself in this kind of position, so I’m just going to tell you what you know already, but don’t want to believe.

    You have made it very clear to this girl that you want to get to know her (in whatever fashion).
    I know you’ve tried to control yourself to avoid appearing overly interested, but I’m sure she can tell you like her and are keen to spend time with her. You make yourself available to her at the drop of a text. You’re like a dog to a bone. This happens to a lot of guys.

    See, she knows that you are interested in her, but – like you said – she isn’t reciprocating.
    Regardless of her busy schedule, if she wanted to spend time with you, she would.
    She has already told you she just wants to be friends and, like most girls do, has also given you mixed signals and messed with your head a little by saying that she broke up with her boyfriend. You assume she was saying this as some kind of hint, but once again… she’s had time to get to know you more and doesn’t care enough. Maybe your brain just jumped to a conclusion on that one.

    I hate to be blunt, but it’s necessary.
    I’m sure you’re so infatuated with this girl because she’s super attractive.
    The reality is, girls like that know they have a lot of options and so she’s probably happy to play the field.
    You need to be honest with yourself and admit you wanted her as a girlfriend figure.
    It’s hard to have an attractive friend of the opposite sex, especially when you’re seeking a relationship.
    You’ve described this girl as amazing, etc, so it’s obvious you think highly of her.

    When I was single last year, I had a couple of dates that went amazingly well.
    I don’t consider myself deluded or easily deceived.
    However, those girls basically blew me off (haha – not in that way) and I never saw them again. At the time, they suggested another meeting. It never happened.
    I really didn’t understand, but the truth is we don’t always know what someone is thinking.
    Maybe it’s as simple as you’re not this girl’s type.

    Don’t take it personally or think you need to change to impress her.
    Someone else will appreciate you for who you are.
    Although, anyone can always do with some improvement.

    But you need to let this one go because you’re missing out on other opportunities and it’s clear that nothing will happen with this girl. If she contacts you in the future, don’t allow yourself to fall into the trap again. It may be best to ignore her, although I know that will be very difficult for you. But if she suggests something and doesn’t follow through AGAIN, because she’s ‘busy’, you’ll feel disappointed all over again.

    Hope that helps buddy x

    #69392
    AikiBen
    Participant

    Hi Spidey,

    I’ve been through this myself when I was at college and all through uni- so several years. Since that time I’ve learned how to turn the tables, I went from exactly where you are to having girls addicted to me, yes I appear very arrogant right now saying that, I’m aware of that, but I just want to tell you the truth so you know I’ve been through it and come out the other side successful.

    Firstly, Dude is bang on the money, follow his advice. My intentions were also honourable as you put it, I’m very selective when it comes to women and I was in no way a user of women. There is a logic to women (I learned this from David DeAngelo, so I have to acknowledge him here, you can find his materials online), but it is counter-intuitive. The principle operating in your situation is identical to marketing: people want what they can’t have, it also works the opposite way. I can see you are beginning to grasp this but not putting it into action firmly enough. Do you think it is a coincidence that she suddenly started contacting you after you didn’t talk to her “all spring and summer”?

    You still have a chance with this woman as you haven’t done anything horrendously needy to end all hope, but it is on the edge of a knife. What I would personally do here is not contact her at all now. I think she will initiate contact again in time, not definitely but there’s a good chance. If and when she does, reply but fairly nonchalantly, without being rude though. Just keep your reply short and sweet. If you get this far she will probably suggest meeting up in some way shortly later (again wait for her to contact you!). Say NO to this request! That you’re busy whatever and maybe some other time, but don’t promise anything, that’s it for now. This is the point the tables begin to turn. Again, wait for her to initiate, there’s a very good chance she will later on. If she does then again I’d be quite nonchalant and say I’m busy then, but maybe in two weeks time etc, text me again around that time and maybe we can meet. An excellent thing which David D says it to never give a direct answer to a woman unless it’s “NO”, that keeps the stock prices high so to speak.

    Now, that was the short-term, technique answer. However, all of the above is just technique and you can use it with success with practice, however it is not really authentic- you are acting not-needy but really, inside you are needy, otherwise you literally wouldn’t invest so much of yourself into it. I can tell you that if you just learn the logic and apply it and become successful with women, it will not make you happy. I wish I could make you believe me but there is no way I can, you may have to go through this yourself to know for yourself that this is true. This is the reason I’ve told you the technique, some on here will likely criticise me for doing so because I’m teaching you to not be authentic. The truth is, I’ve told you what to do so that you can walk the path yourself, come out the side, and become a better person because of it. The real answer is I’m afraid, as usual, not a quick fix, the real answer is to address your inner self- to create a strong boundary (you will then naturally be non-needy), how to have strong integrity, keep your power/self-esteem, basically how to become a mature, masculine man. By the way I’m still learning, and I’m not being critical of you here, we are all at our own stage of growth, you are clearly already way ahead of the game compared to many. But if you learn this, think what a gift to a great woman you will be in the future, and a gift to the world! I actually invested in David D’s ‘inner game’ program which is what started me on this path. I can tell you that although it’s a struggle at first, if you commit to it, the results are more than worth it, all aspects of your life will improve!

    This is a highly pervasive issue in modern day society, all the people on dating sites NEEDING a partner (not all admittedly, but many). Feeling complete yourself first is essential. This is also the only way I believe to have a truly healthy relationship because true love is an act of giving, if you come to a relationship to get something, to fill a missing part inside, then it will lead to trouble somewhere along the line. Someone does not complete you, strive to be already complete, then if a relationship comes along it will be the icing on cake- you will already be happy mind, it is doable!. Too many have no ‘cake’ to start with and want someone else to be the cake.

    A pitfall to avoid if you do walk this path is that, you are not trying to make yourself better, but rather learn what it takes to be the real you you are capable of being deep down. For example, rather than feeling all needy around a woman, which consequently prevents you from being yourself, when you lose the neediness (which pushes women away, people in general for that matter), women will feel drawn towards you when you interact with them, it’s surreal when this happens. However, it is important to still keep your integrity at such times, if you feel the woman is not right for you you honour that and do not take advantage of her. Do it if you want and you will feel the consequences of your actions very quickly inside. Anyway, getting ahead of myself here

    Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

    Ben.

    #69395
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Excellent advice, Ben.

    #69405
    Inky
    Participant

    Can I just add, that as a woman, most of us instinctively know when a guy uses tips and techniques from well meaning “gurus” such as David DeAngelo. I’m not saying don’t try them, I am saying don’t be surprised if they don’t work. If you like this girl, trust me, all the tips and tricks have been tried on her before!

    So if I were the girl and a nice guy suddenly says “No”, postpones the date, doesn’t text first, (add more guru tips here), etc. I know I’m being (unsuccessfully) played.

    Go Old School. Date other girls because with this one it takes ten years to say “hello” anyway because she is so busy. There is a chance that she will be interested in you when other girls are, but so what? Let her finish school, do her three jobs, and volunteer work in peace.

    #69406
    Spidey
    Participant

    Thank you both for the advice, and Inky.

    Dude:

    You’re completely right. Although my intentions are solely on wanting to hangout with her for no expectations at all, deep down I do want something more. And yes perhaps I saw something more, but it isn’t going to unfold if I keep falling into these traps. I’m going to just let it go and carry on. Unless she contacts me then I’ll do what AikiBen suggested.

    Thing is, I feel as if I start to decline her invites now, that she will grow uninterested, and although I want to hangout with her and see her, declining her invites just b/c to play a “mind game” is stupid, when in fact I could easily meet up with her. This is why I despise playing mind games and dating in general… it sucks.

    AikiBen:

    So you’re saying to go off the grid right now, then when she initiates to get together the next two times to decline them both? Sounds tactful, and fair enough; however, as I previously mentioned, I feel as if the more I decline, the more she will grow uninterested then I’m getting no where. Thing is, by doing nothing I’m getting somewhere with her? By doing nothing it feels like I’m getting nowhere.

    We’re due to meet up eventually because I did promise her I’d lend her a textbook for a uni class she is taking next semester. So whether it’s just for a quick get together or we grab coffee/tea or something, then she’s getting the textboook. Or should I start with this “mind-game” then? First suggestion decline it tell her I’m busy. At that point she will just be wanting the book more at this moment instead of actually getting together legitimately. And what if she asks me openly “What days are you going to be available this week?” Then should I just respond and say I’m busy all week sorry? Then what if she flips the cards on me.. “Ok let me know when you can get together…”

    Mind-games suck. Why can’t we just be straight up and honest with each other and call it a day? It would be so much easier in the long run. But no, it has to be a game and there are rules and guidelines.. it sucks.

    My nice guy intentions will just compromise and want to come to a mutual agreement on a get together. By me playing the ignorance cards and not responding and saying no intentionally just seems wrong is all.

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 3 months ago by Spidey.
    #69409
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I don’t think you should get too concerned with how to play mind games.
    I’m with you in that I’ve always felt it’s ridiculous to act out of character to try and seem desirable, but it’s basic psychology.
    We want what we think we can’t have. We want to feel like we’ve attained something.

    I still think this one is a lost cause, but if she does try to speak to you again, don’t be too easy.
    If someone is interested in you, they won’t give up easily just because you’re busy.
    If a girl likes you, she’ll react how you’re reacting right now.
    She’ll wonder why you’re taking long to reply, etc.

    But she has led you on more than once, so the next time (if there is one) she arranges something, blow her off – nicely.
    Say you’re busy… tending to children in Africa or something equally charming.
    Don’t put her, or any other girl, on a pedestal because then you start acting all wimpish and needy.

    And, like I said, maybe she’s just not into you.
    Maybe she doesn’t see you as her type. Maybe she wants some guy with a hectic schedule.
    If you’re anything like I was, when I was single, you have too much free time and want to fill it.
    Sounds like she’s the opposite.
    Not a good match.

    Don’t think too much – Ben’s advice should be taken lightly. You don’t need to think into details. Just play things out how you see fit. Don’t appear to eager. Think what a girl would want in a boyfriend and be that.

    Most importantly, put her in the back of your mind and stop waiting around.
    Go and seek out somebody new and if she comes chasing, good.
    If not, so be it.

    #69412
    Doreen Dawson
    Participant

    Hi Spidey,

    Goodness seems like you have gotten into a web so to speak. Based on what I was reading this girl really doesn’t know what she wants with herself and you which can hurt you in the long run, and could possibly be using you for attention. I would just move forward and focus on yourself more and not think too much about her. If she was interested in you, she would give you signs of interest and make an effort to see you as well as interact with you more. Go with your instinct if it feels strange than it is not worth your time.

    You deserve better. (:

    #69428
    Spidey
    Participant

    Thank you everyone, much appreciated.

    I started off today getting my errands done, and I did what I normally do and that is go for a hike/run. Got to the top had a good lookout over the ocean, and I’ve come to realize that this whole scenario is minuscule and not worth my time.

    So in response to you guys and my realization, I’m letting it go. If she comes around, I ain’t making any promises on the first encounter. If she wants my time, she’s going to need to earn it.

    Aside from all that, I’m just going to keep doing my thing and keep busy.

    Thread still open for chit-chat with dating and its many frustrations.

    #69429
    Anne
    Participant

    Please don’t do the mind game thing 🙂 I understand its appeal, especially when we’re desperate to form a connection with someone we feel is very special, but in the long run, all it will do is tarnish your self-esteem. Do you really want to be the guy who needs a playbook to help him get girls?

    I feel MArk Manson gives better advice than dating gurus 🙂

    http://markmanson.net/fuck-yes

    #69432
    Yue
    Participant

    Lots of great advice here and the friend zone dilemma is one that every man have to face as a rite of passage. One thing that I’ve learned later in life is that women are much stronger emomtionally than men are, almost to the proportion that men are generally physically stronger than women. So instead of playing mind games like pretending be busy or worry about what she said or text and anticipate how to answer her answer (I have to admit that I’ve done this before too), check with how you feel about her behaviour and act accordingly. For example, if you are available on Monday, just let her know that’s the day you have free and if she can’t meet it, it is up to her to suggest an alternative. Her time maybe valuable because of her lifestyle but so is yours. Remember that and you will stop going out of your way to accommodate her.

    Another thing that you should consider is what being her “friend” will do to you. How would you feel when she goes out with one idiot after another but come to your for emotional support when things didn’t work out? If your answer is something negative, then there is a good chance that you are not ready to be “just friends” and it is unhealthy for one party to get what they want in a relationship while the other doesn’t.

    The truth is, she told you what she wanted a friendship fairly early in the piece and you could have said “thanks but no thanks” and let it end there. If she thinks that you’re a potential for a relationship, she would respond differently. I know it sounds a bit harsh but like the others here, I believe you deserve better.

    #69469
    Doreen Dawson
    Participant

    Awesome Spidey, and you’re welcome. (:

    #69501
    K
    Participant

    Hi Spidey!

    I felt like I needed to say this even though it seems you have resolved the issue in your mind. I think I mainly want to write you for others like you in the same situation.

    As a female that has been in a similar situation but in her position, it sounds like she just isn’t that into you relationship-wise. She’s just trying to be nice ( in her mind) by not telling you that you are in the friend zone. She may or may not realize that she is doing this though. However, I need to tell you, move on. If she wanted you in that way she would move mountains to just be with you for a little while. I am not trying to be mean or offensive but I don’t like to see people hurt and dragged along in relationshits wasting their time longing for someone who won’t give them the time of day. If you want to stay friends that’s great but don’t expect it to go further than that, it just seems to me she is using you for attention.

    If you approached her and opened up to her about your feelings and she wanted you she’d try to be with you every waking minute. Find someone like that. Hope that helps and sorry about the run ons. Best wishes.

    #69740
    Spidey
    Participant

    Alright going to update this due to recent events with me and the gal.

    So I decided as everyone mentioned to go off the charts for a bit do my thing. So I did. Four to five days pass and out of no where I get a message from her just a spontaneous “Hey! How are you?” kinda thing. I decide to play coy a bit and sent her a message just before work “Hey, just going to work, try me over the next couple days..”

    Sunday rolls around we end up messaging each other again and having a nice conversation. At this point I decide to to drop with the non-responsive waiting a certain period of time before texting thing, and chose to be my authentic genuine self. So I do and Im asking how she’s doing, how her weekend was, joking around, making her laugh, etc. End our conversation on a good note and told her if she has the next couple evenings off to give me a ring, she replies back “totally! ok have a good night!” I guess we can only perceive so much behind text what the actual intent is, but knowing her and her character I know she’s being her cheerful genuine self as I read the message.

    Monday rolls around no dice, ended up just shooting the shit with her before bed (text convo just checking in, joked around, laughed, was nice)

    The next day (which is today) I texted her a short but sweet message at the end of my shift suggesting a tea and movie night, turns out she already has plans…

    So I’m finally hitting a turning point and deciding enough is enough. I am sorry but I am genuinely suggesting evenings for us to get together, and even potentially holding nights free for a happening, but nothing is reciprocating back. She isn’t even suggesting an alternative day or night to get together. One of my friends told me to give it three tries, and after 3 and there is no bite, you need to cut your ties.

    Well it has been three times know over the past three weeks. If she honestly wanted to get together, as she mentioned 3 months ago, I believe she would have made the time of day for me. But at this point I feel so disheartened that it really is frustrating, and my mental and emotional health is drained! I’m so done! I’m going to finally stop asking, because it clearly shows that she isn’t willing to get together. And I’m sure if we do, it will be for the sole reason so I can lend her my textbook for the next semester. The question is, do I really want to now? I know I will because I am “a nice guy” (I hate this label…).

    At the end of the day, it’s only one person. It really is too bad because I saw so much potential in her. She really is a sweet heart and is amazing. But at some point I need to draw the line, and today I am doing so.

    Rant over. Thanks to who-ever listened.

    I feel as if I want to address her about this, but at the same time I probably shouldn’t. I know when I lend her the text though, I want to leave her a note. Due to my life changing next year in a big way, I won’t be around town anymore nor going to the same university, so I thought as a tid-bit I’d write her a memorable something and leave it in the text.

    Anyways, any last advice on this whole ordeal would be cool. If not, thanks for listening/reading. Much appreciated.

    – Spidey

    #69741
    Adam
    Participant

    Hey Spidey,
    I understand where you’re coming from and of course, most guys go through this kind of thing. To me, it sounds like you’re thinking way too much about this situation and over analyzing it will only make things worse. If she’s not making an effort then I think her actions speak loudly enough. I appreciate your sincere intentions, but if it’s not happening my advice would be to stop forcing things and just let go. By opposing this you’re just causing yourself stress.

    If you strive to flow with life, you’ll attract much greater people. If you meet opposition, you need to know without a doubt, that you’re willing to give everything to overcome that obstacle. If you keep resisting every change you don’t like you’ll spend your entire life in the dirt. You need to know yourself well enough to know what is worth fighting for and what is worth your time and energy. Spending your time thinking about this, worrying about what’s going to happen, or could happen is wasting your life. Would you think it wise to invest your life in a person who shows little consideration for your happiness if you know you had very little time left?

    I also want to say that respecting yourself is essential and having respect for yourself will keep you from investing so much of yourself in people and things that don’t treat you the way you deserve. Though you may think you have this type of respect, it may need closer attention. Learn from this experience and see it as an opportunity to be a better man and partner.

    I hope this helps and good luck to you, my friend.

    thepathofaronin.blogspot.com is my personal blog. Use it if you need any advice.

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