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anitaParticipantI hope you are well, Zenith!
anita
anitaParticipantHow are you, Arie?
anita
anitaParticipantHow are you, bozo?
anita
anitaParticipantDear Louise:
“My mother...(was) the dominant one. Whereas my father was more depressed and unhappy and anxious… My mum could be quite angry and I think I still have a fear of people being angry with me“- so, your mother was The Angry One. My mother was an Angry Mother. Her anger at me, and at others, scared me because it had the threat.. and promise of punishment, of violence.
“I really up on and seem to absorb other peoples emotions, often thinking it is my fault if something is not right or they are in a bad mood“- afraid of others’ anger, as you were afraid of your mother’s anger?
Having an angry mother can be a deeply challenging and emotional experience for a child. It can evoke a range of feelings and reactions, including: Fear and Anxiety: Constantly being on edge, worrying about triggering her anger, and feeling unsafe in your own home, Confusion and Self-Doubt: Wondering what you did wrong, feeling responsible for her anger, Frustration and Helplessness: Feeling powerless to change the situation or make things better, leading to frustration and a sense of being stuck.
These feelings leave lasting emotional scars and affect one’s relationships and self-perception into adulthood. It certainly affected mine, big time. Does this resonate with you?
anita
November 17, 2024 at 12:51 pm in reply to: The phenomenon of “helping someone excessively can make them turn against you” #439449anitaParticipantDear Arden:
“Sorry to keep you busy with this toxic mentality.“- no, no need to apologize. I am sorry that you are suffering. Some of your concerns are valid and your agitation understandable: your husband should direct his resources to team # 1 (you and him), and reciprocate your efforts and commitment. I feel badly that he hasn’t, not adequately, at least.
I slept very poorly last night and I ran out of focus, at this Sun afternoon point. I want to read and re-read your recent posts and return to you Mon morning.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Jana:
“How did you get to the U.S.? I mean it had to be very challenging for you to move somewhere unknown… You are very brave!“- thank you for suggesting that I was brave for moving out (alone) of the country of my birth in the Middle East to somewhere unknown at the time (other than on TV, movies), the USA. I want to explore the topic before answering your question and responding to your suggestion that it was an act of bravery. In the quotes below I will boldface the words to which I will refer following the quotes.
(Online): “Bravery is the quality or state of having or showing mental or moral strength to face danger, fear, or difficulty without being overcome by it. It’s often associated with courage and heroism, whether in everyday situations or extraordinary circumstances. Bravery can take many forms, such as standing up for what is right, facing fears head-on, or taking risks for the benefit of others. It’s not just about the absence of fear, but the ability to act despite it”.
(Online): “Moving to a new country often involves stepping out of one’s comfort zone, facing the unknown, and adapting to a completely new environment. This process requires a great deal of courage, resilience, and determination. Leaving behind familiar surroundings, family, and friends to start anew in a different culture, language, and society is no small feat. It takes a lot of strength to navigate the challenges and uncertainties that come with such a significant life change“.
In my case, truth is, I did not have the mental or moral strength to face danger at “home” (quotation marks because it was not a place of safety, which is what a home is supposed to be), living with my mother, so I ran away to the U.S. Running away, I didn’t stand up for what was right, which would have been to stay and protect my much younger sister, who- following my departure- became the focus of my mother’s quest-to-dominate. Soon after I left, she had my very young sister get married (soon to get divorced) and ordered her (yes, ordered) to give her (my mother) a grandson, whom my mother proceeded to raise= to damage. I did not take risks to benefit others, particularly my sister, and later my nephew. I ran away.
Moving out of my country of birth, I did not step out of my comfort zone, I stepped out of my discomfort zone. I stepped out of a domestic war-zone, and facing the unknown was much easier and more inviting than facing the same-old, same-old known. The challenges and uncertainties at “home” overwhelmed me.
I want to elaborate (and thank you, Jana, for giving me this opportunity to return to my thread and elaborate) about my mother’s Quest To Dominate me through intimidation and emotional manipulation:
Intimidation is the act of intentionally frightening a person so to assert control/ domination over the person. My mother intimidated and manipulated me repeatedly in the following ways: 1. Verbal Threats: Threatening to kill/ murder me (“I will murder you!“) and/ or herself (two threats I remember well. I forgot a whole lot). 2. Yelling and Screaming, 3. Physical Intimidation: Using body language, such as standing very close, making aggressive gestures so to create fear, slapping, hitting and kicking me, 4. Belittling: Insulting, making derogatory comments to destroy existing or future self-confidence and self-worth. “You are a big zero” is one thing she said in a loud, confident, convincing tone of voice (among many, many things she said, most I forgot), 5. Emotional Manipulation: heavy duty guilt- tripping me, making me feel responsible for her dissatisfactions, hurts, anger, hopes, and future, and.. heavy duty shaming me, including in public, parading me (I was in high-school during this incident that I do remember) on the street while shouting insults at me and kicking me with her foot.
So, you see, Jana, it wasn’t scary to leave her and the country of my birth, and fly to a new country, a new continent. No bravery there.
* There was something else involved: my mother repeatedly expressed to me a strong, pervasive distrust and suspicion of everyone, children and adults, believing that everyone (sooner or later) was out to deceive and exploit her. She heavily bad-mouthed people behind their backs (while being sugary-sweet with them in their presence). So, in my world, growing up, there was no one to trust. When I made friends with a cousin, she bad-mouthed the cousin, so I couldn’t develop closeness with the cousin. Or with anyone. I was socially isolated, spending most of the time when not in school, at “home”.
I was pervasively suspicious of everyone, and this suspicious has followed me my whole life.
Talking about trust, sometimes, maybe often (I don’t remember), my mother was nice to me, when she was in a good mood, but I couldn’t trust her niceness and I kept feeling angry at her, my anger showing itself in my eyes. She heavily guilt-tripped me and shamed me for being angry at “the best mother in the world“, her words.
Sometimes, her shaming and guilt-tripping were prolonged, lasting hours and extending into days after, days of dreadful, guilt-producing silence. At other times, she’d shoot out insults/ some shaming words and wait, looking at my face with anticipation, excitedly waiting to see her words hitting me and causing me shame. When she saw the shame, she’d slightly smile. My shame was her pleasure.
Unfortunately, after I left to the U.S (in my 20s), I kept regular contact with my mother on the phone, flew to visit her for long periods of time.. she flew to visit me, trying to relocate to the U.S. herself, so.. any and all progress I made in the U.S. was undone by the continuation of these disastrous mother- daughter dynamics. I kept saving money, minimizing spending it, so to give her money and pay for my perceived guilt. I ended up giving ALL my money, which wasn’t enough to make a difference for her, and my guilt was not resolved. I finally ended all contact with her in 2013, as an older adult, and at that point, my healing has just begun.
I know I shared these things before, but most not in this exact way. I am sharing these things again because they still hurt, they still hinder me. I want to be less suspicious, more trusting of (most) people. I want to not have this distrustful aggression within me that finds its way out of me in words and gestures when I had some red wine in me (yes, I do drink alcohol, Jana. I know that you don’t).
I am partly healed from these disastrous mother- daughter dynamics, but there is more healing to be done. No wonder, because no one can come out of these pervasive, long-term dynamics unharmed. These dynamics are severely harmful. To heal further, I need to have a deeper appreciation of the severity of harm done, and this is why I am posting this. It is understandable, I say to myself, understandable that I was as harmed as I was, as I still am. It still hurts to have been shamed as much as I have been shamed. And it hurts that it was my mother who shamed me.
I come from a war-torn country, yet my lifetime anxiety, Tourette’s (tics), the ongoing physical tension and social embarrassment that accompany these tics; ADD, learning disabilities, past OCD and eating disorders.. all these and more were not caused by War. They were caused by.. my mother single-handedly. This is still a hard pill to swallow.
Back to your question, I got to the U.S. on a tourist visa, which was not difficult to obtain, stopped in London on the way to the U.S., met an American man while riding the London underground, and he asked to marry me a couple of months later in New York City. NYC was beautiful and magical, but I felt too guilty to enjoy it while my mother did not, so, I arranged for her to visit. The moment she arrived, all the beauty and magic evaporated for me, just like that. The very short marriage ended and I left NYC to New Orleans, and from there back to the country of my birth.. to visit her for 3 months because I felt too guilty not to visit.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Lisa:
You are very welcome. I understand you not being in the state of mind- heart to respond to me- and you don’t owe me- or anyone- a response. You are not alone in your pain and distress. I hope it eases.
anita
anitaParticipantThank you, Jana, how kind of you! 🙂
anita
anitaParticipant* Dear Jana: thank you for the compliment 😊
Dear Louise:
You are very welcome. “I am on the move, so don’t have a time to write a lot… when you say: *In all that is happening, it is most important that part of you (the adult part/ the parent part) practices empathy and compassion for the child part of you, taking her side, backing her up, advocating for her.* How do I do that?“-
-first, identify the child part (I’ll call her CP) vs the parent/ adult part of you (I’ll call her AP). The AP is the part that’s taking CP on the move. Maybe (I don’t know) CP wanted instead to write a lot, but AP told her something like: no, we have to go, we have to be on the move!
If AP says the italicized right above in a harsh tone, adding a shove, physically pushing CP along, adding an insulting word or words like: hurry up, you, lazy ***!- that’s abuse.
If AP says no, we have to go… in a gentle but confident voice, looking at CP with an affectionate smile, taking her hand and gently leading her along- that’s empathy and compassion.
If CP refuses to go along and AP shouts at and threatens CP- that’s abuse. If AP gently but firmly explains to CP: I understand that you don’t feel like going along, I understand that you feel like writing, but we have to go now. Later on, I promise, you will be writing more– that’s empathy and compassion.
“And I agree with you with regard to the men… my ex-boyfriend signifies security and Home to me. Whereas the other man doesn’t – He was the excitement that I was looking for which once I felt lost after leaving my home I didn’t really want the excitement anymore. If that all makes sense“- it makes sense to me: once you left home with no plans to return, you went back to being the lost, scared child that you were away from home, wanting nothing but to be back home.
I am re-reading your original and following posts (Nov 12-15), looking for Louise-the-child/ CP’s story. The boldfaced are your words. In parentheses are my words, my interpretations, correct or not): “Sorry if this is long (I shouldn’t be talking much about myself). I am feeling so lost… my mother died very suddenly and unexpectedly… I wanted to leave (my childhood home) and… have… freedom… I initially felt good but after only several days I was hit by feeling terrible, distraught that I had left my home and essentially made myself homeless, lost any sense of security… I feel completely lost and depressed… I think about contacting my (mother or father)… and asking if I can come back… I know our relationship wasn’t good but (I need a home). I know I have done so much wrong… I don’t know how to feel better… feeling in a panic about what I am doing with my (adult) life and wishing I could turn the clock back and go back to (childhood)… I just want to be back home… I need to stop beating myself up… go(ing) over all the things I could have done differently… it is a conflict inside me. The longing for freedom but then for security too… sorry my message is so long (I shouldn’t be talking so much about myself)… My parents argued and fought constantly. We lived in the middle of nowhere… I was dependent on my parents to drive me to visit a friend. So I felt very trapped in this place (home) where my parents were constantly shouting and screaming at each other. My father had mental health issues. But also as a young child, I would get very homesick if I went away from home even for a night. As a teenager, I had a lot of conflict with my parents and I did run away from home a few times… It is 3 am where I am. I cannot sleep. My mind is constantly full of these thoughts and just wanting to go back home… All I know is, I feel this desperate urge that I have to go back home… I feel in a constant state of panic… Sorry about all the strange symbols in my message.(I should be careful about what/ how I say)… Again, I woke up at 2 am With this terrible anxiety feeling and my heart pounding And I’ve been unable to sleep again… unable to relax… I just can’t imagine feeling any better… When I was a child away from home even for a night, I could remember I would cry all night Feeling so homesick and just needed to go home and see my mother (not my father). I am looking more for a caretaker now… If that all makes sense.“-
– Leaving your childhood home, as a child, even for a night, meant leaving your mother (you didn’t mention siblings) alone with a father with mental health issues, who was the one, perhaps, starting or causing all the arguing, fighting, shouting and screaming ?
I wonder if you felt, growing up, responsible for your mother, if you felt that it was your responsibility to be present in the home (as much as you wanted to not be there), so to protect your mother/ to calm down the turmoil (arguing, fighting, etc.)? I wonder if you felt that your life was about keeping her safe.
And recently, when she died unexpectedly, it triggered a childhood fear that you that you wouldn’t be able to keep her safe?
anita
anitaParticipant* I realize that in the above post, i did not share a similar experiences to yours, as far as I know (I got sidetracked). I will share similarities in a later post, Sat, I am guessing (tomorrow).
anita
anitaParticipantDear Louise:I view these forums as a self-help opportunity, an opportunity for me to help and to be helped. Not all of my many thousands of replies through the years have been helpful, and some were harmful. I wish that here, and in real-life, I’ll be helpful all the time, or at least, never harmful. But that didn’t happen yet: only yesterday I said something to someone (in real-life) that was unkind and I regret it. I am quite frustrated by it, and angry at myself.But this is key: for me to be more helpful, and/ or least harmful (zero harmful will be best, of course), my anger at myself needs to be temporary. This anger carries a message, and that is: I need to heal further. I need to heal what’s behind the comment I made yesterday to the person I talked to, as well as to apologize to him when I see him next.As I do all I can, in this post, to heal and correct, I should forgive myself (switch from anger to empathy for me).So, here I go, and thank you for reading (you are part of this):My mother taught me to hate people, to suspect people, to think of people as bad-intentioned, selfish, users, the haves who are taking from the have-not (herself). The repeated pattern was: she’d have guests over. She’d serve them food, most expensive foods (at times of great inflation, when she worked physically hard for money), she’d flatter them, be as nice.. no, more Nice than one can imagine, syrupy-sweet. Nauseatingly (for me) sweet because when the guests left, and behind their backs, of course, she’d share with me how terrible those people are, how they use and take advantage of her, how she is poor and they are rich, and yet they take away from her, eat food that she pays for, the most expensive food she offers them.. how fortunate they are, how unfortunate she is.. and yet they TAKE AWAY from her, giving nothing in return.And yet, the visitors came back and she did the same things, syrupy sweet offering them expensive foods and flattery.This has been the ongoing theme, day after day, year after year. I think that I was a teenager when I offered her: Mother, I can tell them to go away, I can tell them that they are users, I can do the right thing for you!Her reaction: “I will kill you (or murder you, I forgot which word she used), if you do that!So, I didn’t. I sat quietly during all those visits, watching the (perceived/ believed) injustice quietly, saying nothing, but raging internally.Fast forward, at times, that internal rage- when triggers by perceived-maybe people being users, unfair- the rage finds its voice.. only at people who although imperfect, and surely need to improve.. are NOT the people my mother presented to me.There’s another thing that’s part of the complexity: trying to support my mother, to be on her side, I had to be against all the people (everyone) she complained about, all the people she portrayed as selfish, users.. bad people. I couldn’t take both sides, it was one side OR another. Saying anything positive about someone else (her alleged users) meant betraying her.Fast forward, I am sitting with two people in real-life and I find myself saying something unkind to one, so to be kind to the other, as taking sides has been ingrained in me as a show of love or support to one side (although the two sides in front of me are not warring sides).Back to my mother: she didn’t reward me for this loyalty, as I was one of the others, in her mind, bad like the others.Time to end this pattern: time to not be rude to one person so to be kind to another. This strategy failed when it came to my mother and it fails now.She maintained her sickening and extreme people-pleasing behaviors by depositing her rage into me, and this rage- her rage deposited within my brain- is the reason I get so angry at people any time there is a potential- however remote- possibility that they may be users, including times when they are good people who give and have good intentions.Enough for now. I hope the above sinks into me.Back to self-compassion, the last point in my post I submitted to you 3 hours ago: the child in me wanting to fight for my mother, to prevent her from being taken advantage of, to protect her from being used.. this was/ is a good child, a good girl who loved her mother and would have done anything for her mother, a (misguided) loyalty. A good girl who needs my (adult part’s) compassion and understanding.anitaanitaParticipantcorrection to the last sentence: I am here for you.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Lisa:
It’s understandable that the political climate can deeply affect people’s mental health. Here are seven ways (from online) to cope with feelings of depression or trauma related to the elections:
1. Limit News Consumption: Constant exposure to news can heighten anxiety. Set specific times to check updates and avoid news before bed.
2. Connect with Supportive People: people and support groups who share your concerns. Feeling understood and supported can make a big difference.
3. Engage in Self-Care: prioritize activities that bring you joy and relaxation, whether it’s reading, exercising, or spending time in nature.
4. Practice Mindfulness and Grounding Techniques: techniques like deep breathing, meditation, and the 5-4-3-2-1 method can help manage anxiety and keep you grounded.
5. Focus on What You Can Control: engage in positive actions, like volunteering or participating in community activities, to feel more empowered.
6. Stay Physically Active: exercise can boost your mood and reduce stress. Even a short walk can make a difference.
7. Create a Safe Space: Make your home a sanctuary where you can relax and feel secure. Surround yourself with comforting items and positive reminders.
A personal note: I did not vote for the president to be, and I was very anxious about the possibility that he will win. The morning I heard of the results, surprisingly, I felt a relief.. simply because the suspense was over. Now, this is the situation, it is what it is and I can’t undo it. You know of The Serenity Prayer: “God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference”?-
– Well, I can’t change the election results (not to the White House, not to the Senate, not to the House of Representatives, and not when it comes the implications to the Supreme Court), but I can change my Attitude, and instead of filling my mind with the negatives, I choose to focus on the positives: I personally know of good, hard-working, decent people who voted for Trump. Many are happy and hopeful now. I am happy for them. There are good people in the world at large who are also happy and hopeful in regard to the elections results: I am happy for them too.
Maybe, just maybe, Lisa, some things in the next 4 years will turn out okay. Maybe better than okay. You may be pleasantly surprised. Maybe.
Remember, Lisa: it’s okay to seek help and take steps to protect your mental health. You’re not alone in feeling the way you do, and there are resources and people who can support you through this time. I a here for you.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Louise:
You are welcome. This will be another long and thorough post, maybe the longest that I will submit to you. I understand that you are so very tired, so please take your time reading, take notes perhaps (it helps me process information), and take breaks when needed:
“I am still feeling awful. Again, I woke up at 2 am With this terrible anxiety feeling and my heart pounding And I’ve been unable to sleep again… I am just so scared… I don’t know how long I can go on feeling like this only sleeping a few hours a night and just crying and feeling anxious and depressed most of the time and unable to relax… I am so tired and I can’t think very straight… it feels insurmountable at the moment and unbearable. I just can’t imagine feeling any better… It really feels overwhelmingly terrible. Like I just don’t want to live my life anymore“- First, I appreciate you sharing how you feel here, on your thread, because telling someone- be it online- is better than not telling anyone. Sometimes, just talking to/ communicating with someone you trust can help alleviate anxiety and loneliness, and you can trust me: I care about your well-being and will continue to communicate with you accordingly. And I am not a newcomer to the forums. You can find my posts on these forums since May 2015 (mostly under an old account, but almost always signing out my posts with my name).
Professional help will be best for you at this time. I am not a health-care professional of any kind, can’t make medical/ mental-health diagnoses and can’t offer treatments based on diagnoses or otherwise. But there are professionals who can do these things. I understand that you are travelling, but if it is possible for you to see a professional at this time, it will be best.
* A professional would be a physician to assess your symptoms, rule out any underlying medical conditions, and refer you to specialists if needed.
Specialist are therapists who can provide talk therapy, such as Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), which is effective for both anxiety and insomnia, and psychiatrists: medical doctors who can prescribe medication for anxiety and sleep disorders. Sleep Specialists are medical professionals who work in sleep centers and focus on diagnosing and treating sleep disorders, including insomnia. They may recommend treatments like CBT for Insomnia (CBT-I), which is a structured, evidence-based approach to improving sleep.
* When traveling or otherwise unable to see someone in person, online therapy platforms and support groups can provide access to professional help and peer support.
* There are mental health apps designed to help manage anxiety and depression, like Calm, Headspace, or BetterHelp, which offer resources and support.
* There are mindfulness exercises and the closely related grounding techniques that you can do on your own as ways to manage anxiety. Two effective grounding techniques are: (1)- the 5-4-3-2-1 Technique: Acknowledge five things you can see around you, Acknowledge four things you can touch around you, Acknowledge three things you can hear, Acknowledge two things you can smell, Acknowledge one thing you can taste, and (2)- Deep Breathing: Inhale deeply through your nose for 4 seconds, Hold your breath for 4 seconds, Exhale slowly through your mouth for 6 seconds.
* For immediate support, crisis hotlines are available 24/7. They can offer immediate assistance and connect you with local resources.
* And of course, you can always post here on your thread, and I promise you that my replies to you, as a fellow, non-professional member, will be empathetic and not judgmental.
Back to your recent posts: “I know deep inside you are right about both of the men“- I think that at this time, the child in you (aka inner child) is looking for a caretaker.. not for a romantic/ sexual partner. I believe that you need to take care of, and honor the child-within, to not to compromise her, if you know what I mean..?
“I am travelling, it is constantly about having to make decisions and think what I’m doing and I just don’t have the energy“- is there a way for you to settle down for a while, somewhere?
“Currently, I’m finding it impossible to imagine not having my old Home to go back to. Wow, I really had no idea That this was going to hit me in this way once I left I honestly don’t think I’ve ever felt so bad in my life… When I was a child away from home even for a night, I could remember I would cry all night Feeling so homesick and just needed to go home and see my mother“- notice that you wrote that you don’t think that you’ve ever felt so bad in your life, but then.. you did feel so bad, as a child away from home. It’s just that you forgot for a long time how you felt back then..?
From online: “Experiencing feelings of regression to a childlike state during middle age can be a complex and deeply emotional process, often linked to unresolved childhood trauma or stress. This phenomenon, known as emotional regression, can manifest as feeling overwhelmed, acting in ways that seem immature, or experiencing intense emotions that don’t match the current situation. Common Triggers: Stressful Situations: High levels of stress… Trauma Reminders: Encountering situations or people that remind you of past trauma can trigger these feelings. Relationship Dynamics: Interactions with family members or close relationships can sometimes bring out these regressive feelings”-
– you shared earlier that when you moved in with your boyfriend, when you started to live with him, you panicked: this seems to have been a change in the relationship dynamic with your boyfriend (living with him) that brought back how you felt living with your (arguing/ fighting/ shouting) parents. And seems to me that no-longer having a home base with him was a trauma reminder situation, causing an emotional regression to the time, as a child, when you were away from your home-base at the time (your parents’ home).
Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (C-PTSD) results from chronic trauma, which includes ongoing exposure to stressful and harmful situations. It can be caused by living in an environment with frequent arguing and shouting, especially if it occurs over a prolonged period. This can lead to symptoms such as emotional dysregulation, negative self-beliefs, and difficulties in relationships. If you ever get diagnosed- by a professional of course- with C-PTSD, treatment for this (widespread) condition is available, and it includes some of the above mentioned.
In all that is happening, it is most important that part of you (the adult part/ the parent part) practices empathy and compassion for the child part of you, taking her side, backing her up, advocating for her.
In the next post, I will share about parts of my experiences that are similar to yours (similar, but not identical, of course).
anita
anitaParticipantHow are you, me?
anita
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Though I run this site, it is not mine. It's ours. It's not about me. It's about us. Your stories and your wisdom are just as meaningful as mine.