Dear Seaturtle: I just read your most recent post and will get back to you in bout 10 hours from now. Have a restful night..  You deserve to rest: you’ve been doing the best thinking and understanding lately: I am awed by you!

anita

Dear Arden:

So very good to read back from you! I read your two posts but I have to leave home soon, and I want to respond to you attentively and thoroughly. So, I’ll be back to you Sat morning (in about 18 hours from now). For now, you’ve been doing so well living independently in a new country, I m impressed. Please show empathy to yourself, you deserve it!

anita

Dear Seaturtle:

“This sounds right, that he had a revelation and basically reevaluated the way he thought of the situation, but still trying to figure out how to reevaluate in a way where he would have to take no responsibility“- he reevaluated it wrong: that he was joking. Clearly he interrogated you and accused you of dishonesty in regard to money (the cash incident in the grocery store).  This reevaluation relieves him from taking responsibility for what he did. He basically says: I didn’t do it!

To my quote: “gaslighting involves: “1.Lie … 2. Repetition. Like psychological warfare, the falsehoods are repeated.. 4. Wear Out the Victim.”, you responded:  “-which is what happened at our dinner on Monday night.”

I wrote to you regarding the cash incident in the grocery store: “I am confident that there was absolutely no humor and no jokes in that situation”, and your response: “Me too.”

When we people are confronted with behaviors that embarrass us, behaviors that are negative, we tend to explain why we behaved that way, explanations that shed positive light on us, and that’s fair for as long as the explanations are true and as long as we express regret for those behaviors. What N did was not to explain himself but to TOTALLY DENY what he did, aka GASLIGHTING.

“He met a different more gullible version of me”-  Gullibility makes Gaslighting Easy.

“You know how you can give someone all the advice you want, but they need to be ready to hear it. If they aren’t they don’t. My higher self has been giving me messages to leave the relationship since the beginning of this year, since I first posted on here. But I wasn’t ready to hear it. But it is almost as if I could sense it coming and was subconsciously and consciously preparing myself for it. The part of me that wasn’t ready to hear it, tried so hard to mend the ‘miscommunication.’ Saying to myself ‘if only I could communicate my feelings better, he will surely understand and not repeat those actions that hurt my feelings’ and ‘perhaps my dad is why I have these feelings, I can fix my feelings and THEN our relationship will work.'”-

– very well expressed.. wow! (1) Your past gloriously positive expressions about N (“He is supportive… He is truly a stand up man, he is so kind and deeply cares for those around him… my partner is a stand up man, no question“, etc.), were your subconscious efforts to present him in such a way that readers will discourage you from breaking up with him.

(2) Your past focus on minor incompatibilities (ex., “Laughing, we laugh of course at times, but not as much as I would have imagined, our sense of humor isn’t as in sync as I have had with other friends and acquaintances, like not having the same kind of humor“) were your subconscious effort to hint that there are greater incompatibilities, but not go all the way and state what those were because you were not ready for a breakup, and you didn’t want the readers to suggest a breakup.

“But as I was doing all this ‘hyper-meditation’ with a dimmed crown chakra, simultaneously my higher self was taking care of me, because I asked her to. I asked for guidance in this relationship so much”- there is now LIGHT in that crown chakra!

“I am attempting to unite the two, my earthly self and higher self. But my earthly self (or sea-bound self cause I am Seaturtle, hahah…  has a door open to ‘maybe he was really joking, and I completely misunderstood him!, how sad, I have empathy for him because I know what it means to be misunderstood and If I did that and left/abandoned him…enter guilt‘ I know this door is open and I want to work hard to not let this actually become something that I even give attention, although I already have, I want to shut that door.”-

– again, so very well expressed! Self-doubt is the Gaslighter’s bread and butter. Anytime you express your doubts to N.. he will want more and more of that doubt. A sea turtle is an air breathing reptile: think of N holding you down in the water by placing heavier and heavier weights of self-doubts on you… Eventually, you will not be able to come up and breathe.

Notice this: Empathetically, you don’t want him to feel misunderstood by you. Unempathetically, he wants you to misunderstand yourself (via self-doubts).

“My higher self has prepared me for this breakup, and I hope that my current state of calm, is not temporary and just a delay in intense pain”-

– the truth shall set you free (bible). Self-doubts, the Gaslighter’s bread and butter, will keep you imprisoned in a never-ending state of going back and forth between partial clarity and  confusion.

“Is it projecting though if I think I know him well enough to know he probably changed the screensaver in the parking lot before he drove away from my apartment..“- I don’t think that predicting that he changed his screensaver is about knowing him personally: most people will do that post breakup. Maybe he’d be quicker to do it.. don’t know. Solidify within you important things that you should know well enough about him, such as his lack of empathy for you when he gaslights you, not caring about how you feel (a MAJOR incompatibility).

“Seaturtle needs to evaluate about who? about n? I feel exhausted of the evaluation I have already done about him, I am curious to know why this would help?“- it will help to reevaluate him as he truly is because if you understand that he has no empathy for you, you are not likely to have so much empathy for him. It is harmful for a victim to have empathy for a perpetrator: it’d be like a deer having empathy for a hungry mountain lion (and because of that empathy, presenting itself as food for the mountain lion).

“I would like to go through this breakup as healthy as possible, and the way I can get the most growth out of it. I want to do the bare minimum I need to as far as thinking about why he does things. I thought about this SO much while we were together that now I just am tired of it, but I will do what I need to properly grieve this relationship. A part of me just wants to move on and just focus on me now and not hear his name again, but I don’t know if this temporary either, maybe it is just because I do not miss him yet.”-

– For as long as you are no longer in a relationship with N (I hope that would be a permanent breakup), I’ll let you take the lead on whether to talk about N or not. You talk about him=> I respond; you don’t=> I don’t.

“A couple more details on the actual breakup, if you would like to read…. New detail, he then said..  ‘you are really breaking up with me about hurting your feelings?‘… then he was very quiet, pouting like a little kid just looked annoyed and wanted to leave. I then said ‘I had more to say…‘ and he then said ‘I am just over this conversation.‘ Anita you know what is wild to me, he went from ‘baby no I was just joking‘ to completely emotionless and irritated within one minute”-

– this reminds me of the game you were playing at his parents’ home, the one where he gloated about winning and you losing: in the relationship with you, he thought he was winning because he made all the .. right manipulative moves (ex., appearing empathetic and deflecting responsibility), and he’s surprised and upset that he lost the game.

Notice his surprise: “you are really breaking up with me about hurting your feelings?“- as if it’s not a big deal.. ?

“As I was packing he said ‘So like what am I suppose to do in a future relationship‘ surprised by the question my reaction was ‘I don’t know, be more aware of her feelings and treat her more gently‘,  he said ‘so you really think I wasn’t gentle enough with you?‘ still in an annoyed tone”-

– He is asking you for tips on how to better manipulate a future victim and he is disappointed and annoyed that his appearances of being gentle enough with you were not convincing, at the end of the day. He thought he did a great job at appearing to care.

“When I packed his things a few days ago I put the poem I wrote in the bottom of the bag… nothing to lose for me”- it was a mistake to leave that poem for him because the love you expressed in that poem, the love for him, can only encourage him to contact you for another manipulative round, as he’d see it as his success in the art of manipulation.

“I do worry about him reaching out to convince me to come back. I also worry about him impulsively sending me a rude message about me owing him. Not sure. I hope has enough love and respect for me to not do these things but I am honestly not sure.”- a gaslighter does not have love and respect for their victim, the gaslightee.

“I think last night and today I felt numb. But tonight is a different story… I am home trying not to think of my lack of physical affection now and the potential of where his affection will go next” (Dec 7)- I am thinking about where his Gaslighting will go next/ who will be his next victim.

Dec 8: “This morning I woke up with more clarity. I remember the time while I lived with N… The previous day he saw over my shoulder when I was looking at my bank account and it was pretty much empty as I waited for my next paycheck. He has recently helped me with a medical bill that had to do with birth control so both our responsibility. Anyways back to the couch, he was irritated, I said what’s wrong? He said ‘oh I can’t buy this trailer…an you help me buy one?‘… Next day I told him that that made me very uncomfortable given the circumstances and he said ‘oh baby no, you thought I meant that? No it was just a joke! Hahaha no baby” and hugged me.”-

– that’s another GASLIGHTING incident in his Gaslighter Resume.

“the amount of this gaslighting I have gone through!“- I wrote the above before reading this sentence. Indeed, gaslighting.

“It is angering. I wish I brought this up in the breakup, wish I could text him this now but I absolutely wouldn’t start that“- if you brought it up in the breakup, it wouldn’t have made any difference to him. You can only LOSE trying to talk sense to a gaslighter. There is no honest reflection or introspection on the part of a gaslighter. being honest with him only invites more of his dishonesty.

“You know what, ironically, he said I felt too many emotions and was too sensitive… Making me think I was the problem“- that’s the gaslighter’s strategy: I was only joking, you only imagined it, you are too sensitive, etc., YOU are the problem!

“Anita, let me know if this sort of venting is okay for you me to post here“- yes, that’s okay. I may not reply to everything you vent/ share about in a new post if I already did in previous posts.

anita

Dear Seaturtle:

Before I leave for the day: I don’t think that N had let go of you, and not as easily as he appeared to have done last evening. I think that he knows how attached you have been to him for so long, so he’s playing it cool, waiting for you to break and get back to him.. or he contacts you with more appearances of feeling defeated, stunned and whatnot, knowing that a big part of you is very motivated to believe what ever he says because (that big part of you) does not want to break up with him. I think that he feels that he invested in you too much (money, time, whatnot), and he is not willing to give up on his investment.

I am worried that you may be very conflicted/ distressed as you read this (?) and I don’t want to add to your distress, so please, feel comfortable to take a break from our communication for as long as you need to, or limit our conversation to other topics.. whatever is best for you at this time.

In any case, I will be back to the computer Fri morning. Please take good care of yourself!

anita

Dear Greenshade:

Welcome back to the forums! The first time we communicated was on June 21, 2016, and we communicated in most of your 40 threads, last time was on May 23, 2022.

“There are also things in my life that are exciting and I that I have worked to have. There are experiences I have had in the last year through work and friends that have been fulfilling, meaningful and fun. I have developed and grown as a person in so many ways. I am unrecognizable in how my confidence has changed, assertiveness, and in just being able to be able to relax and connect with others“-

– good to read all this, congratulations for your positive growth and development, for your confidence, assertiveness, and being able to relax and connect with others!!!

(I am adding the boldface feature to the quotes that follow): “All I want to do is curl up in my ex’s lap and have a good cry, but he isn’t here…  I just want to be with someone who I know and trust and feel safe with and miss so much… There were also problems in the relationship, we didn’t have clear communication, arguments were piling up… Even now, I know there’s too much hurt and anger in me and when I try to picture us trying to have a relationship I can only imagine it imploding. So in all ways, I know its not a possibility. But I still wake up missing him“-

– sometimes you felt safe/ trusting when interacting with your ex (in-person and long-distance) and that was comforting. You currently need comfort and you need the feeling of safety and trust, so you miss and long for those times when you felt safe, trusting and comforted with him.

In June 2019, you posted that you were back home, living with your parents after ten months abroad, having left your ex abroad. You shared that you trusted him, and that in the relationship with him,  you “felt healthy and happy, and loved”. You and your then boyfriend intended to “try to make things work, in spite of the distance”, but back home, you started doubting the relationship a lot,

You wrote back in June 2019: “I have fallen into the old role of my life revolving around my mum and my primary focus had shifted (from) building a happy, healthy life for myself.. to taking care of my parents and wanting to see my mom happy… My mum feels like my life.. going back to my life with my boyfriend.. feels far off and not real… I am definitely feeling like I had moved backward since coming home”.

4.5 years later (Dec 7, 2023), you shared: “I have also doubled my work hrs to be able to support mum post retirement“- you are a very dedicated daughter, a hard working, caring, sacrificial daughter.

“I would really appreciate your wisdom/advice/support“-

– again, congratulations to the growth you have achieved so far. May your focus and purpose in life shift more and more toward “building a happy, healthy life for (yourself)” (your words, June 2019). You deserve to be more significant in your own mind and to sacrifice your own life less and less.

anita

Dear Seaturtle:

Dec 5: “I reminded him of the cash in the grocery story again… that this was gaslighting.’ He asked questions about what gaslighting even was and I was very precise about it“- if he didn’t know the term gaslighting before you explained it to him precisely.. he knew what it was on Dec 5, and you made it clear to him that there the cash story/ situation and was a gaslighting situation.

“He went on to gaslight me again about this situation, he said ‘it was a joke’“-  after you explained it to him, he went on to gaslight you again.

“and I said ‘no it was not. It was not. I remember it correctly and see this twisting of my reality is not okay. My life partner should not be making me doubt myself.’ He nodded at this seeming to begin to understand or at least try”- he nodded, seeming to begin to understand, or try to understand.

“I went on about how damaging the victim of being gaslit can be… I said ‘…I am telling you that the cash situation was not a joke at all, it was serious, I did not feel anxious for no reason, you were investigating me’. He shook his head no, he did not understand… he looked completely defeated, he said something along the lines of ‘I had no idea I came across that way.’ I genuinely believed him, he looked completely stunned at all that I was saying”-

– reads like he had a revelation, that he found out something he didn’t know before. Looking completely defeated and stunned in regard to the cash story & its connection to gaslighting suggests that something happened (within his crown chakra..) that would lead him to look further into what so completely defeated and stunned him.

Dec 6: “I basically brought up how he still hadn’t taken responsibility for the things I told him that hurt me like the cash situation and he literally continued on about it being a joke. He said…  he was joking pretending to be an interrogator when he asked about the cash“- nothing happened within his crown chakra and he.. gaslit you again.

It is easier to repeat a lie than it is to seek the truth. It takes way less time for person A to create a desired effect in person B by lying and repeating the lie, than it is to engage in an honest seeking of the truth.

From psychology today (in my Dec 1 post), gaslighting involves: “1. Lie … 2. Repetition. Like psychological warfare, the falsehoods are repeated.. 4. Wear Out the Victim.”

Here is the cash story/ situation from your Nov 24 post, the first time you told it. I am quoting only words uttered and acts done during that one situation. (None of what you thought and felt, none of what you think he thought and felt, none of your interpretations of what happened is included):

“We went into the grocery store… I pulled out cash from my wallet… he said ‘um where did you get all that cash?‘ I answered ‘from the offer up furniture‘.. he said ‘no that’s not all where it came from where did it come from?‘ … I said ‘I don’t remember‘ he said ‘that’s suspicious you never have money and now you just have cash?‘…  I responded ‘I am not going to tell you, you are asking me with so much distrust, you cannot demand that from me, you can just trust me.‘… He asked if anything was wrong and I was like ‘yea I don’t like how you are talking to me, accusing me of doing something shady, asking me questions like I am untrustworthy‘… he then said ‘you never have money and now you do and me asking makes me an a**hole? You know what, f**k you.’… We didn’t speak the rest of the drive”.

I am not an expert on humor and jokes and yet, I am confident that there was absolutely no humor and no jokes in that situation.

But if he repeats that the above was a joke.. If you give him more time in your life to repeat the lie.. you are likely to believe it more and more, being worn down by the persistence and repetition of the lie.

Dec 7 (I will be reading and replying to one sentence before reading the next): “I want to stop worrying about how he is feeling but I am not quite sure how”- first, understand that how he appears to be feeling is not how he feels. For example, in the above- he nodded, appearing to understand or try to understand, but he didn’t; he appeared defeated and stunned but he was not.

“I just find myself wanting to know if he’s ok and how he feels when he sees things that remind him of me like the engravings on his wallet I made or the screensaver on his phone”- you are projecting what you feel into him. If the two of you were similar, such a projection would likely be quite accurate, but the two of you are too different for your projection to be accurate.

You kept explaining to him how his words made you feel, assuming that he cared about how you feel, but “He said ‘words don’t mean sh*t, get that through your head” (Nov 24)- your words too are included in “words”. Your words about how you feel. don’t mean sh*t to him.

* (Dec 5): “1-How will you change to better the relationship: He started, he said he was going to start taking better care of himself, his home cleanliness and eating habits”- did you notice that you were not in his answer. You being in the answer would be, for example, answering: the two of us should take better care of ourselves in these ways…, or  I need to take better care of you by talking about things you care about, like spirituality.

Back to Dec 7:  “Instead I want to change my mindset to making sure that I am ok and not denying myself, letting hatchling know I did this for her and don’t regret it”-

– hatchling needs to be held and hugged and made to feel safe. It is Seaturtle’s job to see to it that hatchling is not being held and hugged by just anyone, so that she doesn’t get hurt. Seaturtle needs to evaluate: who is this person.. what is he about?

“I dreamt all night of him, not in a bad way it was vague and as if we met again in the future under different circumstances, it didn’t feel heavy it was honestly comforting“-

– If the two of you met under different circumstances, it’d still be him under those different circumstances. And what does being him means?

The answer, the true answer .. is not going to be comforting to you. What has been comforting to you so far has been believing that he is very different from who he truly is.

In your very first post (July 29), you asked: “Is this all just me running away from the most genuine and loving/caring/kind/PATIENT/ would-do-anything-for-me man ??????????????”-   in boldface here is the comforting answer to the question: who is N?

“I don’t think we are soulmates. But we are very in love, I have been dealing with these small disconnects for a long time but they keep coming back to me… I really have been having this entire debate in my head for a straight 6-8 months now” (July 29)-

– the true answer to who is N? is in the above quote: the two of you are too different to be soulmates. His dishonesty makes it impossible for him to be anyone’s soulmate. You’ve been in love with him for too long, and so, you’ve been motivated to see him positively, in a way that would comfort you.. (not the way he truly is).

“We met on Tinder, he was late for the first date, but I didn’t mind.. since it’s not like he knew who he was being late for, lol, my logic anyways” (4th sentence, July 29)-

– Do you know who you’ve been on time for in the last couple of years?

anita

Good Thursday morning, Seaturtle! Working on a reply.

anita

Dear Seatutle:

You DID IT, Congratulations!!!!

You did the right thing for yourself, I have no doubt. Sadness about it, distress.. these are normal emotions on your part because you’ve been emotionally attached to him for so long.

A joke, he said- it’s a lie. You deserve people in your life, particularly a partner in life, who are honest and straight forward with you because you are such a person!

You just made my evening so much better with your update. I am proud of you, if I may say so. Please have a restful night, you earned it.. good job, well done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

anita