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September 28, 2024 at 11:21 am in reply to: Surrender, Accessing Shakti by clearing samskaras, eliminating false selves #438426
anitaParticipantRe-submitting, trying to create spaces.. may not work:Dear Seaturtle:“As my natural self is revealing itself, the conflict is the thought ‘stop this is too much expression!’“- I think that the wording too much means something bad, that therefore, something that shouldn’t be expressed.In a recent reply I quoted about shakti: “Shakti in Hinduism, is the ‘universal power‘ that underlies and sustains all existence… energy, ability, strength, effort, power, might, capability“, and I suggested that “to tap into/ to be One with Shakti, it takes trusting yourself to be a good person first, because you wouldn’t allow a bad person all that power and capability”.About my experience: for as long as I believed or heavily suspected, that I was a bad person, I was too troubled and confused to exercise power in my own life, too troubled to steer my own ship, so to speak. So, I let the ship (me) passively drift any which way the wind (other people and circumstances) took it.I desperately needed to know that I am a good person so to feel that I have the (moral) right to exercise power in my own life.The person that made me believe, or heavily suspect, that I was a bad person was my mother. On a regular basis, she accused me- in long, protracted, paranoid and histrionic sessions of accusations- of plotting to hurt her feelings and humiliate her. She accused me of planning what to say and do, weeks and months in advance, all for the (intentional) purpose of causing her emotional pain. No objections, explanations or denials on my part made her stop.Who plans and intentionally actualizes plans to cause pain to one’s mother, if not a bad person..?As I said, I tried to explain to her that there was no intention, no plan.. because I knew that there was no such intent or plan, but over time, I didn’t know– know. I wasn’t sure that she was wrong. I doubted myself. I became very careful about the words I said, or thought about saying, too anxious, too careful.The anxiety and Guilt (feeling like a bad person) that she instilled in me tormented me for most of my life. The harm done to me by her accusatory and histrionic sessions still lingers. I think of the majority of my life as a stolen life, stolen and held hostage by her.I couldn’t, wasn’t able to access Shakti= to become powerful in my own life, not for as long as I wasn’t able to peel the Guilty-Suspect-Label off of me. I waited and waited for her to give me the permission to live my own life (by telling me that I was a good person) long after I knew that I was still waiting. I gave her all that I could give her, money included, but never got the Good Person label from her. So, for the majority of my life, I drifted in a purgatory, drifting between heaven (waiting to be labeled Good) and hell (resisting being labeled Bad).Waiting.Back to you: “What comes to mind immediately is that there are things I fear that I am, that I don’t want to be. But some of those things I am also unsure if they are true, or they are just what I have been told. Like F’s accusing me of being selfish, controlling and manipulative“- it is possible, as it had been in my case, for a child who is 100% empathetic (good) with a parent, to become an unempathetic adult. I grew up to be.. not a good person with lots of people, sadly.I believe that you were not selfish, controlling, manipulative, etc., when it came to your father, but it is possible that you have been so with others, to one extent or another, at times.. is it possible?“I know I have good aspects, and I am optimistic I see myself as majorly good, a lot of the time, but definitely not fully. Do you see yourself as fully good?“- I currently see myself as a good person. I define a good person as a person who cares to do no harm, and to help people whenever possible.To view myself as a good person, I had to go back to the past and peel off the Guilty-Suspect-Label that my mother repeatedly and viciously placed on me, and then re-label everything and everyone: (1) my mother presented herself as a good person: no she was not a good person. To me, and to those most vulnerable to her, she was a bad person,(2) my mother presented me as a bad person: no I was not a bad person. I was as good a person to her as can be. My empathy was with her, I would have done anything to help her, and I did do all that I could.I grew up to be an angry person, and sometimes.. a bad person (judged by my harmful vocalized words and actions). I earned my good-person-label by repeatedly and intentionally correcting my behaviors (words said/ typed, and chosen actions) from Harmful to Helpful, best I can.(3) other people whom she accused of being bad people (everyone, sooner or later), many of them where better people than she was, and none of them was as bad to me as she was.These days, whenever I notice that I think/ feel judgmental of people, I address the situation and whenever, wherever possible and appropriate, I shift from judgment => to empathy. I don’t view myself as a bad person for thoughts that occur to me, or feelings that pass through me, no matter how.. “ugly”, because I know that I don’t choose them.I hold myself responsible for what I say, type and do, not for unchosen thoughts and feelings. When I find myself thinking/ feeling what may lead to harmful words or actions, I redirect my attention => to thoughts and feelings that are congruent with helping, not with harming.Using words from the title of your thread, I’d say: Surrender to the fact that you are not fully/ perfectly good, correct the ways in which you harm others (something we should all do), and accessing Shakti– continue to heal yourself and, like a song says: “Heal the world- Make it a better place- For you and for me and the entire human race” (Heal the World).anitaSeptember 28, 2024 at 11:15 am in reply to: Surrender, Accessing Shakti by clearing samskaras, eliminating false selves #438425anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:“As my natural self is revealing itself, the conflict is the thought ‘stop this is too much expression!’“- I think that the wording too much means something bad, that therefore, something that shouldn’t be expressed.In a recent reply I quoted about shakti: “Shakti in Hinduism, is the ‘universal power‘ that underlies and sustains all existence… energy, ability, strength, effort, power, might, capability“, and I suggested that “to tap into/ to be One with Shakti, it takes trusting yourself to be a good person first, because you wouldn’t allow a bad person all that power and capability”.About my experience: for as long as I believed or heavily suspected, that I was a bad person, I was too troubled and confused to exercise power in my own life, too troubled to steer my own ship, so to speak. So, I let the ship (me) passively drift any which way the wind (other people and circumstances) took it.I desperately needed to know that I am a good person so to feel that I have the (moral) right to exercise power in my own life.The person that made me believe, or heavily suspect, that I was a bad person was my mother. On a regular basis, she accused me- in long, protracted, paranoid and histrionic sessions of accusations- of plotting to hurt her feelings and humiliate her. She accused me of planning what to say and do, weeks and months in advance, all for the (intentional) purpose of causing her emotional pain. No objections, explanations or denials on my part made her stop.Who plans and intentionally actualizes plans to cause pain to one’s mother, if not a bad person..?As I said, I tried to explain to her that there was no intention, no plan.. because I knew that there was no such intent or plan, but over time, I didn’t know– know. I wasn’t sure that she was wrong. I doubted myself. I became very careful about the words I said, or thought about saying, too anxious, too careful.The anxiety and Guilt (feeling like a bad person) that she instilled in me tormented me for most of my life. The harm done to me by her accusatory and histrionic sessions still lingers. I think of the majority of my life as a stolen life, stolen and held hostage by her.I couldn’t, wasn’t able to access Shakti= to become powerful in my own life, not for as long as I wasn’t able to peel the Guilty-Suspect-Label off of me. I waited and waited for her to give me the permission to live my own life (by telling me that I was a good person) long after I knew that I was still waiting. I gave her all that I could give her, money included, but never got the Good Person label from her. So, for the majority of my life, I drifted in a purgatory, drifting between heaven (waiting to be labeled Good) and hell (resisting being labeled Bad).Waiting.Back to you: “What comes to mind immediately is that there are things I fear that I am, that I don’t want to be. But some of those things I am also unsure if they are true, or they are just what I have been told. Like F’s accusing me of being selfish, controlling and manipulative“- it is possible, as it had been in my case, for a child who is 100% empathetic (good) with a parent, to become an unempathetic adult. I grew up to be.. not a good person with lots of people, sadly.I believe that you were not selfish, controlling, manipulative, etc., when it came to your father, but it is possible that you have been so with others, to one extent or another, at times.. is it possible?“I know I have good aspects, and I am optimistic I see myself as majorly good, a lot of the time, but definitely not fully. Do you see yourself as fully good?“- I currently see myself as a good person. I define a good person as a person who cares to do no harm, and to help people whenever possible.To view myself as a good person, I had to go back to the past and peel off the Guilty-Suspect-Label that my mother repeatedly and viciously placed on me, and then re-label everything and everyone: (1) my mother presented herself as a good person: no she was not a good person. To me, and to those most vulnerable to her, she was a bad person,(2) my mother presented me as a bad person: no I was not a bad person. I was as good a person to her as can be. My empathy was with her, I would have done anything to help her, and I did do all that I could.I grew up to be an angry person, and sometimes.. a bad person (judged by my harmful vocalized words and actions). I earned my good-person-label by repeatedly and intentionally correcting my behaviors (words said/ typed, and chosen actions) from Harmful to Helpful, best I can.(3) other people whom she accused of being bad people (everyone, sooner or later), many of them where better people than she was, and none of them was as bad to me as she was.These days, whenever I notice that I think/ feel judgmental of people, I address the situation and whenever, wherever possible and appropriate, I shift from judgment => to empathy. I don’t view myself as a bad person for thoughts that occur to me, or feelings that pass through me, no matter how.. “ugly”, because I know that I don’t choose them.I hold myself responsible for what I say, type and do, not for unchosen thoughts and feelings. When I find myself thinking/ feeling what may lead to harmful words or actions, I redirect my attention => to thoughts and feelings that are congruent with helping, not with harming.Using words from the title of your thread, I’d say: Surrender to the fact that you are not fully/ perfectly good, correct the ways in which you harm others (something we should all do), and accessing Shakti– continue to heal yourself and, like a song says: “Heal the world- Make it a better place- For you and for me and the entire human race” (Heal the World).anitaanitaParticipantDear Prudence:
“I tried a dating app… when I look in the mirror, I don’t see that ugliness at all… So why does this happen?“- it may be that you are not good at the workings of this technology of dating apps: limitless matches, fast access, great competition. Our world, especially that of your age (23), is very much technologically advanced, but very much deprived of the human in-person factor. It may be that you are falling through the cracks of this highly technological world.. ?
anita
anitaParticipantDear Karen:
Thank you for Keep the Heid. Here’s another Scottish saying: “Be sure to taste your words afore you spit them” – Meaning: Be careful to think about what you are saying before you say it. Often we can’t take back what we say in haste or spite, so take a moment to think before you speak.
anita
September 25, 2024 at 2:16 pm in reply to: Surrender, Accessing Shakti by clearing samskaras, eliminating false selves #438374anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
“I think I worry more that I will accidentally be a bad person.. selfish, self righteous, rude, prideful/ greedy etc… I see myself as majorly good, a lot of the time, but definitely not fully. Do you see yourself as fully good?“-
-What is Seaturtle’s personal definitions of a majorly good person and of a fully good person?
anita
anitaParticipantDear Clara:
You are welcome! “I often treasures honesty and directness, I do not like to guess or beat around the bush. I often think this causes more harm. It is often because the person delivering the message does not have enough mental strength/ courage to deliver the message, at the cost of the peace of the recipient. I guess this is also how she draws farther, as I often challenge her to talk/ face directly with the situations“- very well said. She lacks the mental strength and courage required to be honest and direct with people in complicated matters, matters that involve conflict or some unpleasantness. (I assume she is honest and direct when it comes to simple matters like letting the employee at the ice-cream shop know the particular ice-cream flavors she wants).
A few months after you met her for the first time, on Oct 7, 2018, you shared: “I recently got quite close with a person, we have been talking mainly on texts for a few months… she had never disclosed that she had a girlfriend”. You were very distressed at the time about her not disclosing this to you. Now I understand why she didn’t: it was a complicated matter for her, she was conflicted about it.. so she was not honest about it. She hid this major part of her personal life.
This lack of honesty and directness has been part of her before the beginning of the relationship with you. It is how she operates.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Zenith:
If she doesn’t care about a consequence you chose for her, choose a different consequence, one that she will care about!
anita
anitaParticipantDear Zenith:
He is teaching her to dominate people/ relationships with aggressive behavior. He lets her dominate.. her father.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Clara:
“I think she really wanted to break up, maybe 80% of her wanted to break up. But I guess I had been probably clinging onto the 20% of it most of the time, especially in the beginning“-
– in the beginning of the break, you wrote about her (June 25): “she can’t figure out whether she still loves me or are we just ‘good friends’ who live together… This is just day 3 (of the break)”.
Three months later, there is no behavior on her part that comes close to being good friends: she doesn’t even want there to be any texting between the two of you (“She suggested some ways and one of which was just to use a google form… So I told her that may be, using google form is a better balance of what I want(attend classes) and what she needs(have limited/ no interaction), so at least she wouldn’t get a random text from me“, Sept 7).
You doubted her honesty regarding the break early on: “Doubting the intent of the break, she mentioned she needed time to clear her mind and ‘restart’, but sometimes I also double if she just wants to use this time to break up“, June 25.
People who want to break up from a partner are often dishonest in regard to the breakup:
Psychology today/Breakup Strategies: The Brave and the Cowardly: “Breakups are miserable. No one likes going through them, and no one likes putting their (ex-) partners through them. The idea of initiating a breakup is often threatening, even to people who are pretty certain that their relationship needs to end. This discomfort can sometimes lead people to use ‘soft’ or indirect breakup strategies… The use of such strategies only adds insult to injury for the rejected partner, who would have preferred that someone was more honest and direct with them. A painful breakup can thus be made even worse by the way it took place…
“In a paper published in 2012, Collins and Gillath highlight seven general strategies that people use to break up with a romantic partner, which range from direct and honest to, well, less so … 1. The open confrontation strategy is the most straightforward approach. A person openly communicates their desire to end the relationship, as well as their true reasons why.
2. The positive tone/self-blame strategy… This is the classic ‘it’s not you, it’s me’ approach… not entirely honest, as it often involves taking complete blame, concealing the true motives for breaking up (e.g., flaws in the partner), and generally trying to soften the blow and avoid hard feelings.
3. The de-escalation strategy essentially entails slowly back away from a relationship. Rather than ending things cleanly and directly, a person using this strategy will procrastinate, waiting for the ‘right time’…
4. The avoidance/withdrawal strategy is like de-escalation, but colder. A person will signal their lack of interest in the relationship by avoiding their partner, making excuses not to get together, no longer asking or providing favors, and withholding affection and intimacy.
5. The cost escalation strategy involves trying to get the partner to end the relationship. An individual will pick fights, be disagreeable or demanding, and generally make things miserable until the partner decides that it’s time for them to go their separate ways…
“Not surprisingly, Collins and Gillath found that people most prefer to be broken up with directly, with approaches like the open confrontation strategy. In contrast, people tend to experience more distress when they are broken up with indirectly, with approaches like the avoidance/withdrawal (strategy)…
“Collins and Gillath found that anxiously attached individuals were most likely to use the positive tone/self-blame and de-escalation approaches—strategies that help maintain the relationship with the ex-partner and that might leave the door open to get back together in the future. In contrast, avoidantly attached individuals were more likely to be indirect, with approaches like avoidance/withdrawal. Overall, feeling secure helps people to break up with their partners more directly and honestly, which ultimately proves to be more compassionate for the soon-to-be ex.”
The way she broke up with you definitely fits The avoidance/withdrawal strategy, signaling her lack of interest in the relationship way before the break, and the break itself was a month-long signal. And this strategy fits her attachment style. The article says: “avoidantly attached individuals were more likely to be indirect, with approaches like avoidance/withdrawal”, and on Aug 19, you wrote: “it seems to me that I am anxious attachment, and she is avoidance“.
She definitely didn’t break up with you the honest and direct way. She broke up with you over a long period of time, causing you much unnecessary waiting, distress and confusion. An example of your confusion: “I guess the whole thing is a bit out of my comprehension. I can’t figure out if she wants to break up, or if she wants to salvage the relationship(or any other motive). The actions do not add up” (July 2).
Back on June 27, you wrote: “I sometime have some overreacting and made her scared”, on July 2: “my reaction makes her feel she was at fault all the time”, on July 5: “she is very cautious of what I say and tip toes“, on July 21: “whenever I feel the possibility of being abandoned and the insecurity, I became angry and… made the close-one my enemy“- These are things that you need to continue to resolve so to have a future healthy relationship with a non- avoidant individual. Because a relationship with an avoidantly-attached individual, once there is any conflict, increases the anxiety of an anxiously-attached individual (you). And an avoidantly-attached individual is more likely to be dishonest and indirect when scared and tiptoeing around a person who overreacts.
Back to your most recent post: “If what you said were true, those are just lies (conscious/ unconscious) to make me feel more empathetic towards her/ calmer, I think she really needs therapies to deal with her stuff… This is a very ingenuine life that she is living, to herself and others, if this is how she is“- I think that there aren’t lots of people who live very genuine lives because of all the anxiety that’s going around, starting in our childhoods, and the ways we cope/ protect ourselves. It takes undoing unhealthy coping mechanisms and adopting healthy ways to protect ourselves.
In the case of the two of you, it’d take you learning further to not overreact (practice emotion regulation skills), and it’d take her to no longer.. under-reacting when it comes to honest and direct communication during conflicts, and instead: address and resolve conflicts early on, before she experiences burn-outs and quits (in the contexts of work and relationships)
“I had a busy weekend and I joined a workshop, on how to connect with nature. Observe trees, meditate and do some grounding (imagine being a tree etc.). Basically, communicate with trees. I found it quite fascinating as I did feel very energized afterwards“- trees do not overreact, do they? They react very slowly and gradually to various distresses. At this time of the year, not having enough water in the ground, they drop their leaves gradually, over a long while, not all at once, and they don’t panic and drop their branches.. they don’t overreact. And they are honest and direct: they don’t drop their leaves while hiding, and they don’t say: maybe I will drop my leaves, maybe I will not.. they just do.
Honesty and directness, when not delivered in a rude/ abusive way, is indeed fascinating and energizing!
anita
anitaParticipantDear Clara: I will read and reply in the morning.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Zenith:
“She is cute though and fun to be with. I love her a lot.”- I am sure that she is cute, absolutely. And I am sure that you and your husband love her a lot. Tell her and show her that you love her, not by trying to please her at all times, but by enforcing rules that she must obey. She needs rules, it will probably give her the structure and trust in her parents (for being strong & reliable in regard to setting rules and seeing that she follows them). This will calm her.
“We had a great time on Friday as a family. We went to out to ice cream, then chuck-e cheese, then had pizza. But after all that she wasn’t happy“- I think that much more than needing ice-cream and pizza, she needs two strong parents who work together setting rules and seeing to it that she follows them: this will make her happy.
anita
September 23, 2024 at 5:54 pm in reply to: He slept with someone else while we were broken up #438325anitaParticipantDear Mary:
“But now I cant get images out of my head and wondering if I’ll ever leave the past in the past. I am an overthinker… cant stop imagining that he was with someone else“- I can relate to you, I went through the same kind of suffering that you are describing here, and I too was an overthinker. In fact, I suffered from OCD (eventually diagnosed) from an early age.
“This man has always been loyal and honest… He was my first and I met him when I was 18 so with this man has been my first for everything. “- from my experience this obsessive kind of suffering is not about whether the boyfriend is honest and loyal, or not. Instead, it’s about an early hurt in childhood (before you ever met him) that got triggered and goes on and one through images and imaginings. In my case, it was my loneliness as a child, being mistreated by my mother. That was an early and ongoing betrayal, very intense. For as long as it was unresolved, it got triggered and re-triggered.
Do you relate..?
anita
anitaParticipantAdding:
“My husband and I are pretty friendly with her. She says she is bored at home and feels alone“- and she doesn’t yet know (being so young, she needs to be shown/ taught) how to regulate the emotions of boredom and loneliness.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Zenith:
“Sometimes its hard for me to regulate my anger and I yell at her. I know I have to change this habit. Sometimes I get frustrated with her behavior“- yes, regulate your anger. Easy to say, difficult to do, I know, but a worthy goal nonetheless, it really is! Your daughter can learn emotion regulation by watching you model it/ practice it successfully.
“She wants.. a to toy or key chain every week. My husband spoils her with all the toys.“- if she gets a toy every time she wants it, she doesn’t get a chance to regulate the emotions that take place when a child does not get what she wants when she wants it..
anita
anitaParticipantDear Zenith:
“I did tell my husband while ago about taking my kid to a therapist. He brushed off saying that its normal for kids to act like this at this age“- see the quote in my previous post about ODD:
“It’s common for children… to be oppositional or defiant of authority once in a while… When this behavior lasts longer than six months and goes beyond what’s usual for your child’s age, it might suggest that they have ODD”- so, like your husband said, it’s normal (common), but once in a while, and to a certain/ lesser extent.
“She is very good at school with teachers and friends. Once she is back home she gets into the irritable mood“- this means that something about the home environment, as opposed to the school environment, is distressing for her.
“My kiddo is obsessed about T. We used to spend the weekends together when my neighbor was close to me“- maybe your kiddo doesn’t like spending time at home, so she wants to be in school instead, or at the neighbors’.. just not home..?
“Now the neighbor spends the weekend with her new set of friends. She replaced us so easily!!“- I understand your anger and frustration about it. Like I wrote before, I would probably feel the same. And, if I was you, I would try very hard to not show my anger and frustration in front of my kid, because a mother’s anger and frustration passes easily to her kid..!
anita
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