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CarolineParticipant
<p class=”p1″>I very much tried to not offend her and to not make her feel like she is inferior. But in that situation, I thought, it’s really hard to make someone feel confident, when she was the cleaning lady and I was already working (maybe not earning big money but different sort of job than her). So many times I was really careful to not make her feel like I am better than her. </p>
<p class=”p2″>Me bossing her around was.. I don’t know really.. telling her to make dinner while she was at my place, telling her to pick up a package etc. The least she could do, because 4 days a week she was at home (she cleaned only on 1 day) and I worked 6 days a week. I felt bad, so I guess when she finally got the job I wanted her to feel better (she had some difficulties at the beginning – actually almost whole first year so I didnt want to brag how my job is going well etc. It’s not that well, I also have issues but I have very little work to do every day so it’s really not bad. )</p>
Today I thought about the times when she was so humble, shy. I don’t say I loved it but now she is so different. I appreciate her being nicer to me and trying to watch my favorite movies with me etc.. but I get the feeling she is pretening, trying to be nice. That she is different now.CarolineParticipantThank you Tee.
Regarding her mother, maybe she can lock the door of her room while she is on camera, not to cause inconvenient situations? And to warn her beforehand not to disturb at certain times?
She should set some boundaries with her mother but it’s more complicated I think.. Her mother needs to be respected more, I think I mentioned how her father jokes about her etc. He does respect her, he is a good person, provides for the family, he is always there for birthdays etc, family celebrations etc. But he also jokes about her and I think my girlfriend kind of got used to that. Plus her coming into the room when she is working, I know it’s annoying and I would be anxious too, that someone would come to my room and ridicule me while in a meeting. I told her recently: “you wouldn’t yell on your dad if he came into your room, wouldn’t you?” and she said: “because he wouldn’t come in!” But she admitted she was being a bitch and she knows that.
Anyway I have no control over the dynamic in her family, I don’t think she should live there anymore to be honest.
What is important for me is how she treats me and this is what I will be fighting for.
It’s a good sign that she’s not defensive but realizes that she indeed was rude and snappy, and she wants to improve on that. So what you agreed on to work less and spend more time on leisure activities sounds like a great idea.
She was not defensive at all. She is not that kind of person, I think. She is rather understanding and calm, regardless of what I have been describing here. And it was not always like that. She did not have a job for years and didn’t believe in herself, she had this job where she cleaned some lady’s house, earning very little money. You wouldn’t even pay rent for her monthly earnings. She had no self esteem. She did not buy any clothes, anything. Then I got this job and I recommended her. (I have slightly higher position). I think I wanted to include her in some decisions and wanted her to succeed, I did not want to boss her around (which I think I used to in the past). I wanted her to be more confident and to see her succeed. And it got out of hand because I started to diminish myself so that she wouldn’t feel worse.
CarolineParticipantBecause you said that initially, when you told her you felt disrespected, she withdrew a little and was silent. Polite, but withdrawn. She didn’t share her feelings with you.
Yes, that was weird but as I said, I think she was just unsure what was going on because I always seemed so cool and “tough” when she was disrespecting me. As if I didn’t care. She was surprised because it was happening for quite some time.
you said earlier that you don’t talk much about the stress she might be experiencing at work, although you suspected it was one of the reasons she became more snappy with you in this past year. That’s why I thought that she doesn’t talk much about what’s bothering her, i.e. that she doesn’t talk about her feelings too much.
Yes, that is the case. I asked her about it, and she said it has nothing to do with her dog passing, just she is working too much and she is stressed. She got new responsibilities. I am happy for her, I think she is too but it involved a lot of stress and she never had that much going on in her life. She told me this is the reason. She also admitted she is rude to her mother because of that (she works from home and is on camera very often and her mother is coming into her apartment(it’s in the same house) when she’s in a meeting sometimes.). I think she is aware of this and I am happy I brought it up. However, I am still cautious and try to be aware if she doesn’t come back into her “old self”. Which she did not for now.
CarolineParticipantHi Tee,
She did ask for an apology, but it seems she doesn’t know how to relate to you differently. More honestly. With more appreciation. Rather, she is silent and withdrawn. So the intimacy hasn’t grown, even if she isn’t insulting you any more, right?
It has changed a bit. She is more respectful now.
I wonder – is there anything that both of you like and have a similar taste in, or your choices and preferences are very different?
Yes, we both like movies and decided we would go to the movies more often. We also like eating and cooking, usually bond over eating together.
That’s great that you asserted yourself and were able to stand your ground. Congratulations!
Thank you.
Basically, you’ve received rejection and put-downs instead of connection and bonding. Does this ring true?
I think she misunderstood my asking for advise, which was on my part an invitation to choose things together as a couple, she understood it as me not being able to make decisions.
Now, with her being “polite” and silent, you’re still not receiving connection and bonding. There is still very little intimacy between you. And this is what you’re missing, right?
How do you understand intimacy? I am not sure if this is that should be understood from my posts. It’s really hard to describe a whole relationship in couple of posts here, on the forum.
Is there an activity (or more) that you both enjoy and that you can bond over? Because I think that’s important for the relationship – that two people have some common interests (not all, but some) and can spend their free time enjoying those shared interests.
Yes, there are some activities that we both like. Actually we both work too much so we decided we would go out more, ride bikes together or just go for walks. We both agree we should be more active. We are going to concert soon and planned some trips to the movies.
CarolineParticipantTee,
Did her stance seem like silent treatment? Like she is punishing you for expressing discontent?
No, more like distant- afraid to offend me, not knowing “whats going on”. I think I often seem “cool” about everything.
Perhaps she is afraid to show vulnerability, so the only way to connect is via mocking and playing tough. But that’s not a healthy relationship. She would need to be willing to change that.
Yes, I think that’s true. I reminded her how her sister used to mock her and she even told me once that her sister doesn’t respect her. What she did was joking, mocking, name calling. But all as a joke, not “serious” offending. Only jokes going too far.
So if you would to assert yourself and say “I want to go to watch this movie – do you want to come?”, what do you think her reaction would be? To mock you for your choice of movie and shut down the idea?
Normally she would say this movie is stupid and waste of money. Recently I think she is more mindful of what she is saying.
Okay, so you haven’t really tried to assert yourself and express your own preferences (about hobbies, lifestyle, music etc), for fear of rejection? Or you did express yourself but were mocked, and so you stopped?
I did express it, but she kinda laughs about it.
it’s like a preventive action: you seem uncertain maybe even when you actually know what you want, but are afraid to express it. Does this ring true?
Yes.
I talked to her couple of days ago. I told her she treats me like a child and I feel stupid most of the time. And that she mocks all my ideas, tells me what to do all the time. She said she didn’t realize that and never wanted to be rude on purpose. She said she was sorry. I think it’s different now. But I know what is most important here: I rarely ask her for advise anymore. I noticed she makes her own financial decisions: for example she bought some game devise and just informed me about it. Didn’t ask before, just after the fact.
And it’s nothing wrong about that, it’s just.. I am so much different, I used to be so much different. I wanted to make decisions together, I thought it would be nice. So I asked her: is this furniture nice? should I buy it? Shall we paint my room? etc..
It wasn’t a good idea. I am really trying to be mindful of what I am saying now, how I sound. I try not to ask questions that often.
And I don’t want her to pretend she likes somethings when she doesn’t, like last weekend when we watched a movie and she knew I liked it and I think she was a bit afraid to be honest. I think it’s more healthy for her to be honest and for me to respond than just be silent and pretend.
CarolineParticipantHello Tee,
How did she behave during the birthday party? Was she a bit distant (even if polite)? Did she seem offended or hurt a bit, or anything like that?
She did seem distant but I am not sure if offended.. Maybe a bit afraid to offend me, I think. She once joked (as she is used do) and tried to make it seem innocent. Honestly I don’t know what to think.. She wanted to go shopping together but I said I don’t want to. She was surprised but did not say anything. But she was silent.
Actually you said earlier that you are always kind to her. Or at most you stay silent to her mocking. So you don’t behave like you hate her, right? You haven’t been mocking her back, or treating her harshly?
No, I havent been mocking her. Some time ago when I said she was rude she said something like “You should learn to talk back”.. But I don’t want to. I cannot really be like that, and I also don’t want to have such relationship where we behave as if we were 8 year old siblings.
If you want to see a movie, and she says no that’s a stupid movie, you still go and see it, either alone or with a friend. If you want to paint your room, and she says no you can’t, you don’t get discouraged, you don’t fight with her either, you simply go ahead and do it. You’d need to develop that inner strength and determination that says “this is what I want, I am allowed to have it, and I will have it.”
That would mean I will be more..separate from her. Most things we do is what she wants to do. Even the fact we sit at home, don’t go to restaurants, cinema it’s because she doesn’t like it. So if I want to do things I like it means we will be separate from each other more often. I feel like there is no ME in this relationship. I became HER. We play board games, listen to her favorite music (not anymore but we used to, not long ago).
With a little practice, with some trial and error, I am sure you’ll become much more adept in knowing what you want and need. And you won’t be so insecure and in need of her approval.
I will be practicing this so that I would stop asking her all the time and seeking approval.
You need to stop caring so much about her opinion. That’s how you develop more inner strength and autonomy.
I think this is my biggest problem. I do not have autonomy. I become the other person. I think I am a bit scared…of not being someone else, of being my own. I don’t know if this makes sense but I feel like this is what is happening here. I think being separate will break us up because I need her approval, I am scared of doing something she doesn’t like, of having life that she does not like, approve, does not want to go into. I prefer becoming someone else than risking her not approving my hobbies, lifestyle etc.
You can tell her something like: “I don’t like it when you try to prevent me from doing the things I like. When you object every purchasing decision I make and tell me no, you can’t have it. I am an adult, I earn my own money and I would appreciate if you treated me like an adult.”
It’s good, I will tell her that.
pay attention to what you’re communicating. Because if you sound like asking for permission, she might just automatically disagree with everything, due to her subconscious programming.
This is exactly what she does, probably. Just the sound of whatever I am saying, the question mark at the end, me sounding not sure – makes her automatically disagreeing because my idea does not sound good. Because I say it with doubt already. It’s how I communicate. Not being sure about everything.
Yes, that’s excellent too – pay close attention to her words and if it’s really a command and she wants to control you, or it’s some automatic reaction.
Tee, do you think it can be automatic reaction? As I see it, I seem like a child to her, unsure, with doubts and she automatically shuts down my silly ideas. Or does she command me. Or is it both.
How does this sound? Does it feel overwhelming or it sounds doable?
It is overwhelming unfortunately..
CarolineParticipantHi Sarah, Thank you for your very short and concise input. I will keep that in mind for sure.
CarolineParticipantHello Tee,
Did you tell her what specifically bothered you? Or you said it just in general, and she kind of knew what it was and now is treating you nicer?
Has she apologized for how she treated you?
I told her she was being mean to me, treating me like I am her younger brother or something, calling me names and mocking. That’s how I feel, like we are siblings and we show each other’s affection by mocking. Except it’s not affection, it’s just siblings who hate each other dynamic. I think this is what she might be taught and I allow this because I am insecure.
She just said she was sorry. And then started to be nicer but, as you wrote, and as I also wrote, it’s like she is in power and allows me to do things. She decides. And what I want is: when I want to do something, even if she doesn’t agree or doesn’t approve I still want to do it. Sometimes alone and sometimes with her, if the situation requires like buying something together or going to see a movie that I like.
I decided we won’t be going shopping together anymore, I just don’t want it.
she so far disapproved and “forbid” you to do certain things, but now she is “generous” enough and allows you to do those things. It could be the same patronizing dynamic, where she is in charge and is making all the decisions, and you are complying. A little bit like the parent-child dynamic.
I think so. I see it that way. The way she told me we are going to this concert that I would like to go, even though I never said I want to, she just assumed because I like this artist. So she is generous and wants to take me there. How to change this? I do not need her to give me those things, I want to make my own decisions. I want to buy an avocado or sushi or paint my room without her command: “NO, don’t”, “stop it”. I know she is fed up with her mother buying stupid things but I don’t think she goes shopping with her anymore. She is just fed up and angry. and takes it out on me. And I have had enough.
I think I will be more mindful of what I am saying, whether I am asking her for permission, suggestion, or say things that sound like I am. And whether she is commanding me, and what is her general response to things I want to do/buy. I do not care anymore to offend her, I am really angry about this. I have no idea what else should I do to get my power back.
Perhaps you feel that even if she is now nicer, she is still coming from this position of superiority and that she knows better and should be making decisions for you?
Yes, that might be the case.
That’s why the real question is: do you feel respected, or you feel looked down at?
I do not feel respected. I feel like a stupid child often. Tee, do you think there is a chance this could be changed?
We did not saw each other much since that time, only some birthday party and couple of phone calls. She seems nice and different. So I can’t really tell the vibe right now. Is it a phase or is it now different.
CarolineParticipantSarah,
I am aware I am not treated right and this relationship needs change. Me, us – changing our behaviors (me setting boundaries and her respecting those boundaries) or entirely breaking up, perhaps, if this won’t work out.
I can see you’re a moderator here and giving quite a strong advice based on my story. I am a bit surprised I must say. What do you think of giving such an advice here on this forum? Do you think members of this forum exchange sufficient amount of information to receive a direct advice such as to leave a relationship or other important life decisions?
I haven’t been much in the therapy but I know therapists rarely give direct advices, rather encourage patients to come to conclusions etc. What do you think of that?
CarolineParticipantHello Tee,
I talked to her, not much but I said she was mean to me sometimes, that she was not nice. From what I have noticed since then.. she is kind of nicer now, bought me a gift, a movie that I like. She also said we would go to this concert of an artist that I like (But I wasn’t really planning to go so I told her that I am not sure if it works out). She also said things like “so are you gonna order sushi since it’s payday” etc. Sounds like she knew about some of those things, that she was probably mean and seems nicer now. Also sounds like..she is allowing me to have those things now, encouraging me, giving permission. On maybe I get this all wrong.
She says I should get a new chair and I have this feeling.. like I can buy a chair. Because she said so. If she didn’t say so I would probably have hard time making this decision.
But I still have this anger in me. I feel like I missed out on so many things because she wouldn’t let me do things. And it’s not like she is forcing me or forbidding but.. discouraging. Saying things like: You won’t be painting your room this years, forget it. Next year. And I will agree to this. I feel angry. I am scared the “nice phase” will pass and we will be back to the usual. I don’t want to go shopping anymore because now I have had enough. She won’t let me use the checkout, she says she only gets to use it (because I broke something one time, I don’t ever remember correctly). I am fed up with this treatment, even though now she is nicer and better.
Hi Sarah,
Thank you for responding. Why exactly do you think this is abusive relationship?
CarolineParticipantTee, Thank you for this message and for “predicting the future” kind of:
Over time, as you get more confident about your purchasing decisions, you’ll probably be asking your girlfriend less for “approval” of what you should buy.
It gave me confidence. I see more clearly now, my overall situation with her.
I will respond in details to your message after the weekend, once we meet and talk about this.
Again huge Thank You for support!
CarolineParticipantThe worst is.. I am afraid of confrontation. I am scared of talking about this. Me? Standing up for myself? So….pathetic.
My mother is the same, people told her what she should do, she has no confidence.
CarolineParticipantHello Tee,
I guess you really don’t want to tolerate disrespect and abuse any more, which you have been doing for much of your life. You want to do something about it, but at the same time, it feels overwhelming. I totally get it.
That’s true.It got so heavy suddenly when I realized how much I listen to other people, how they impact my decisions, my life. Things I buy, I eat etc. It’s so easy for people to manipulate me.
you might have surrounded yourself with people who don’t respect you enough, or you have tolerated their poor treatment, and it kind of got out of hand.
I texted her yesterday, she asked why I am so sad. I said about this name calling and being rude. She said she was sorry and that I should have told her because she didn’t know. So she obviously doesn’t remember I already told her this once. Not sure if she said sorry about this pet name only or overall being rude. We are going to meet today, I’ll see how that goes.
I realized she tells me to do or not to do things all the time, and the reason might be that I ask her about everything. While we are shopping I ask her “should we buy this” “maybe I will buy this” and she almost always says “No, don’t”. “You can’t afford it” “Why do you need this” and it’s always on grocery shopping that she cares about spending too much money (my money buying my things – and I have my own money). When it comes to buying cds online or expensive things for herself she doesn’t have that much problem. I really must stop asking her, I have to just take things I want, with no asking, no waiting for reassurance. Maybe I am the problem that I lack confidence and I ask her everything. So she became so bossy because I have no opinion of my own.
But you have the adult part who is strong and capable, and can protect both yourself and your inner child.
Thank you. Yes, I believe I can.
You don’t need to tell your girlfriend everything that bothers you about her, and end up breaking up with her. You don’t need to cut off relationships with people all of a sudden.
I got so angry suddenly and I really wanted to break up with her. It got so overwhelming and disappointing. That I let that happen and it hurts me, It’s like I can’t take this anymore.
start with something small, start setting boundaries in small things. And then see how people react to it. Does this seem doable?
Yes, I think so. I will pay more attention to what people tell me to do and start responding to it.
but as you start setting boundaries, they will learn to treat you differently. Those who don’t want to treat you with respect aren’t worthy to stay in your life anyway. You can definitely change your attitude and stop being a doormat and a people pleaser. You are allowed to change and stand up for yourself.
Thank you for this. I believe I can change it.
Is that when she found a new job? Do you ever talk with her about her emotions, about what’s happening at her job etc?
We rarely talk about this. I think it got worse when she lost her dog and did not process those emotions. She yells at the cat and it’s for no reason, it’s stupid really. I know it’s because of the dog. And the new job perhaps, she gets angry, anxious, I think this job stresses her out but also gave her confidence that she earns money and works in this environment, she became more presumptuous.
it does seem she has different standards for you and for herself, when it comes to spending money.
Yes, and why is that? I don’t understand.
is she implying that she is supporting you financially? As if you don’t have your own money…
I got a small debt for past two years and sometimes she payed for groceries when I didn’t have that much money left, but it’s not like she was supporting me. It was like once a month she would pay, I usually gave her back after payday. Maybe she felt like she was supporting me. I think maybe it’s the pattern at her home: her mother doesn’t work and she spends too much, she buys things she doesn’t need for kitchen, plates, glasses, clocks, all kinds of necessary things and she pays for this from her husband’s money. And I noticed while we were visiting them that he sometimes jokes about her, it’s very similar. So it’s like this: she spends a lot of money for stupid things and he jokes about her, sometimes it’s rude. But she uses his money so she doesn’t really…stand up for herself. I think it’s ok for her in a way, she doesn’t mind.
So my girlfriend kind of projects this on me, I think. I once asked her why she is so mean while grocery shopping and she once told me she used to shop with her mother and she would go around the shop for hours choosing stupid and unnecessary things to buy.
But I earn my own money! no one is supporting me ..If she in fact thought she was supporting me because she payed for groceries COUPLE OF TIMES and she thought she has the right to mock me and tell me what I can buy… then I think I should not let her buy me anything anymore.
CarolineParticipantI feel really anxious and depressed.I could not sleep at night. I hate this life. Sorry if this is too much. I coped with so many similar situations already and seems like I have no one. No one who respects me anymore.
CarolineParticipantThank you Tee. I feel really depressed knowing how many people treated me like this. I am afraid no one would ever respect me because people know they can bully me.
If she is angry about something, she shouldn’t take it out on you. I mean, you can encourage her to talk about her problems, if she wants to, but you don’t need to tolerate if she is taking her anger out on you.
He dog died over a year ago and she also started to listen to very aggressive heavy metal music. She has changed a lot. I heard she screams at the cat, for no reason, calling him names. Just because he is sitting somewhere etc. She got really weird. I didn’t realize until recently that I am one of her doormats too.
This sounds like trying to control you. Maybe she has some fear about money, or perhaps believes she doesn’t deserve better things.
She spends a lot on her own cds, movies, music devices etc. Really a lot. She bought 3 expensive concert tickets but says we cannot afford vacation. And then she jokes about me buying sushi like I am a high maintenance. I don’t understand. Why am I in this situation, why couldn’t I see it.
If you have your own money and your own apartment, you should be able to decide if you want new furniture, not to mention if you want sushi or not.
I know how silly it sounds that I need this kind of validation, because I don’t know it myself. It’s so sad.
Yes, you can do it, I know it from our previous discussions. You dealt with that bully “friend” of yours pretty successfully too. You are strong enough, Caroline!
Thank you. I hope I can resolve it somehow. I hope she will stop bullying me but I am afraid she kind of.. got used to it already. As I mentioned she apologized and then she continued doing the same. I think she doesn’t really notice it anymore, it’s how she communicates with me.
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