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deci

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  • #400663
    deci
    Participant

    Oh~ let me add this: The aspect of “mastery” isn’t in terms of understanding, it is a matter of application according to the time. Taoism calls this “matching potential to creation.”

    What is more significant than understanding? Seeing reality or properly, its potential, being the crux of enlightening activity. Action, per se, is not the critical aspect, it is seeing and “absorbing” potential, thus precipitating what might constitute “subtle spiritual adaption” unbeknownst to anyone. For the most part, just seeing potential is done without much ado.

    When one sees through phenomena before the first thought, one gains access to potential instead of partaking in karmic evolution (energy). Potential is inherent in the karmic situation itself. Karma is the “stuff” of creation. It just is. Enlightening beings enter the karmic realm to absorb its unrefined potential and withdraw in order to refine it. This alternating “tactic” comprises the practical teaching of spiritual alchemy’s technique of advancing and withdrawing the fire. In gaining access to potential inherent in all situational cycles, one sees that potential (and thus oneself) is subtly independent of the circumstantial elements comprising its milieu— one such element being the person itself. Since one sees potential by failing to reify the identity of the person as absolute, one’s action or repose is in terms of selfless potential, not the person. This is the meaning of “selfless” adaption. Such adaption has nothing to do with social conventions dictating “compassion” in terms of views of self and other.

    Since such seeing is not relative to the person, one’s adaptive capacity is expressed as “neither seeking honor nor avoiding ignominy.

     

    #400656
    deci
    Participant

    Hi anita~ hmmmm …I don’t know❤︎!! There has never been a way to put words over the duct of unspeakability…

    Hahaha!! So, it is not that I want you to understand, it is that there is nothing constituting understanding in terms of reality relative to the person. “Understanding” is the rational mind, words, meaning. Reality has no meaning, no purpose. It just is. When you begin to see relative to the potential inherent in situations themselves by forgetting to dredge up notions relative to the person, one actualizes one’s inherent spiritual (nonpsychological) function on the spot. It’s naturally, spontaneously so.

    All prior illuminates have endeavored to leave this open secret intact for those who have the audacity to enter into it in order to keep the knowledge alive.

    The style and content of the writing is itself a device for those resonant with its teaching— I didn’t make it up. Nevertheless, I only write about what I know, using the long-studied terminology of Chan (Zen) buddhism, Complete Reality (Quanzhen) taoism and Toltec Nagual shamanism to express the practical application of what amounts to that which constitutes

    Working its activity is the duty of enlightening being. Self-reflective activity trapped within desire, form and formlessness is the duty of ordinary sentient beings.

    This is because our nature is inconceivable. Most people fail to derive any real power from that profound fact. It’s just your own mind right now before the first recollection of the thinker, the knower, and the liver of life. Thus, the means, the application, and the perpetual result also share in this inconceivability— but there is nothing unnatural about it because awareness is already thus as is. There is no other Mind. And, as you well know, it is only due to clinging habit-consciousness’ psychologically reifying pattern-awareness that the real knowledge of Suchness is usually obscured. I say usually, because since mind is one, the Real surfaces spontaneously now and then with no effort on our part.

    Essence cannot be taught. It is what constitutes your own mind right now. The ancient  admonishment is to “see essence on your own, then seek a teacher.” This is because even though the wordless “science of essence” cannot be conceived, it is none other than the scene playing out before your own pointed nose and horizontal eyes. No one is different in this regard. As for the “science of life,” which can be taught, is why one seeks a teacher after awakening to Reality’s potential.

    Once the singular flavor is unmistakably recognized, the basic practice and unbending intent perpetuating subtle continuous observation of mind by mind 24/7, finally manifests benefit from the insight into what constitutes the real, fundamental basis in reality and one can confidently step beyond the confines of rote formal meditation regimens. I myself never had recourse to any kind of formal practice, whether that be sitting, yogic, or sexual disciplines. I just had a knack for open wonder and proceeded along that path in altogether surpassing anticipatory consciousness. Such open wonder continues to serve me well.

    I just don’t know what it is!

    Some people ride the long, seemingly complex sentence structure for its own sake without seeking any meaning, per se, for some time before any kind of resonance becomes apparent. I’m not suggesting that anyone do that~ yet there are those who, over the years, have told me that, over a long time, something just eventually “clicks” for them and they gain entry into their own inherent knowledge. That’s what resonates. Mind is one. The direct teaching beyond provisional directives is universal.

    Delusion and Reality are not different. The real knowledge of inconceivable reality is simply unified awareness as oneself without including or excluding the individual. The person isn’t an issue (heehee!) There is no doing involved. The individual is the viable element for what it’s worth, no more, no less— yet just this doesn’t depend on the person, it just is. Ego is already wonderful without taking credit for its function. After all, that’s all ego is— merely the inherent psychological function constituting the person. Delusion is believing that the person is the identity of the being that is going to die. Open awareness doesn’t depend on the person to be viably enlightening, yet ego-consciousness perpetuating the necessary illusion constituting the person also doesn’t necessarily have to obscure one’s inherent enlightening function. What make the difference (in terms of karmic bondage) is habituation to self-reifying psychological momentum. That’s what makes the world go round. Karma, creation, the realm of duality, eternity, the heavens and hells galore— all words relative to time. Transcendence isn’t opposed to time, it just isn’t bound in it— it is literally operational outside its confines. Yet, if there were no time realm, what would be the point of transcendence? Creation isn’t viable in terms of the Absolute. Yet the Absolute is transcendent within the confines of the created. It’s just the way you do it. Who knew? Without the false, there is no way to find entry into the real. It’s just the way it is, and no one knows why.

    Authentic teaching describes direct entry into reality by mind alone. It’s as easy as turning over your hand. Not very many people are ready to partake of dealing with essence directly without intermediary in the midst of everyday ordinary situations at any given time, yet such is not only possible, it is just the way it is. Again, no one knows why.

    The various schools of Padmasambhava (Tibetan Buddhism) are very popular in North America and are relatively accessible to all walks of life. I do not usually tender their devices in an obvious way, yet, in stripping away the cultural veneer, I find the approach exemplified by Chogyam Trungpa viable and also his commentary on the sutras to be most insightful.

    “Om gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha.” In his Cutting through Spiritual Materialism, Chogyam Trungpa elucidated this ancient mantra from the Heart Sutra on page 199 of the chapter on Shunyata:

    One would have thought that instead of saying, Om gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha, this mantra would say something about shunyata— or something of the sort. Instead it says, Gate gate— “gone, gone, gone beyond completely gone.” This is much stronger than saying “shunyata,” because the word “shunyata” might imply a philosophical interpretation. Instead of formulating something philosophical, this mantra exposes that which lies beyond philosophy. Therefore it is gate gate— “gone, given up, got rid of, opened.” The first gate is “rid of the veil of conflicting emotions.” The second gate represents the veil of the primitive beliefs about reality. That is, the first gate represents the idea that “form is empty,” and the second gate refers to “emptiness is form.” Then the next word of the mantra is paragate— “gone beyond, completely exposed.” Now form is form— paragate— and it is not only that form is form but emptiness is emptiness, parasamgate— “completely gone beyond.” Bodhi. Bodhi here means “completely awake.” The meaning is “given up, completely unmasked, naked, completely open.” Svaha is a traditional ending for mantras which means, “Sobeit.” “Gone, gone, gone beyond, completely exposed, awake, sobeit.”

    Jesus said that only by giving up one’s life does one gain the Kingdom of God. When speaking of the thinker, the knower and the liver of life, how can one miss the import of his directive relative to ceasing the perpetuation of the illusion of one’s person? The Heart Sutra ends with “the great spell” (mantra) which in the Tibetan version reads: “Therefore the mantra of transcendent knowledge, the mantra of deep insight, the unsurpassed mantra, the unequalled mantra, the mantra which calms all suffering, should be known as truth, for there is no deception.”

     

     

    #398782
    deci
    Participant

    Helcat commented:

    Hi Deci

    What I discussed are Tibetan Buddhist beliefs. From the Buddhist perspective, due to belief in reincarnation these practices are done to help guide you to achieving a better reincarnation. It is said that if you achieve enlightenment you become a Buddha, yet most Buddha do not choose to walk the earth, many go to the Buddha realm.

    The reason why dying helps certain people achieve enlightenment is because dying is a process that dissolves the ego.

    It takes many lifetimes to achieve enlightenment. There have only been 20+ known Buddhas throughout human history. This is how rare achieving enlightenment is. Enlightenment is a rare phenomenon. Rare in death and even rarer still  in life.

    I believe that practicing meditation can do a lot of good and enact a lot of change even before achieving enlightenment. The Dalai Lama himself doesn’t claim to be enlightened. Many masters do not claim to be enlightened. Yet, they still help many people with the level of spiritual attainment that they have achieved.

    Personally, I am doing these practices to benefit my mental health. Psychology is largely based on Buddhist practices and I have reached the limit of what psychology can achieve.

    I’m guessing that you haven’t read the Tibetan Book of the Dead or the Tibetan Book of Living and Dying. Most people do not like discussing death. But there are Tibetan Buddhist practices that are heavily linked to death.

    You’re right living and dying are reflections of similar phenomenon. Sleeping is considered to be a state similar to death. The quality of your sleep is considered a reflection of your practices.

    Compassion is a big component that many masters discuss with building a level of attainment.

    Who knew that the Tibetan Book of the Dead, while being a valuable incentive for those living during a time of death and dying without the will to enlightenment, also serves as a reference and source of comfort for the living in terms of its provisional tenets at a time of social loss, must, as well, be seen as a last-ditch device for the dying by its upholding the possibility of sudden enlightenment for those with the karmic potential at the time of their death, in order to see essence without needlessly having to experience the bardic realm when the veil between Creation and Nonorigination finally dissolves.

    Dear Helcat, I speak from the perspective of enlightenment. Buddhas aren’t to be counted because they are numberless. Even so, in terms of the one who sees essence by virtue of the Absolute, no buddha can reach you there, anyway. So much for buddhas. What about those who, when they see a buddha in the street, can kill a buddha; when they see their lover, can kill their lover; when they see their selfish habit-induced views of self and other, right and wrong, good and bad, they can kill such views. That’s true liberation. Liberation is not buddhist nor is it buddhism. Buddhas aren’t buddhist. Such is complete reality.

    No buddha, much less Buddhism, ever invent enlightenment. Your own mind right now is your inconceivable nature, which isn’t a matter of belief. Why? It’s your own mind right now, which is awareness, nonoriginated. This means that awareness (being your nature) isn’t created. So belief, per se, be it buddhist or otherwise, has no value in the face of direct experience. Why don’t people see? They do, but due to the fact that seeing relative to the person isn’t reality, such seeing isn’t real. Real seeing is transcendent. That doesn’t mean to say that it’s different, it’s just not bound by karma. That’s transcendent. Seeing with the awakened Dharma Eye, people do not go along with birth and death (cyclic situational and karmic change), they abide in nonorigination. Delusion and reality actually look exactly the same simply because they are the same. What’s different?

    Seeing.

    I have to say that the idea about you starting your own thread using your own words to discuss your experience of the early stages of learning buddhism is an excellent idea, because rebutting the concepts in your above quote would be completely off topic relative to the OP.

     

    • This reply was modified 4 weeks, 1 day ago by deci.
    #398684
    deci
    Participant

    Helcat commented:

    I would also add that when it comes to enlightenment, my understanding is that most often it occurs when we die.

    It is often suggested that practice is to prepare for this moment in death.

    Oh? Then why bother practicing diligently during one’s life for the ultimate moment of one’s personal death when sudden realization of one’s true identity is most likely (and most often) to occur at the end of one’s lifetime?

    I’m not suggesting that your understanding is erroneous, but then, who, in fact, would know?

    Of all prior illuminates who have left the opened secret intact and have invested their lives’ work in keeping the knowledge alive and have documented all manner of provisional and direct teachings over the ages, I wonder why I have never heard such talk that sudden realization (that has ANY power at all to transform oneself and others) is most likely to occur when you’re dead.

    I wonder who those would be who would be most likely to have often suggested that the great matter of life and death would most likely (and be generally understood by most to) occur after one’s life— or at least during one’s exact physical extirpation when the root of one’s life is pulled up by its stem. If so, perhaps the great matter of life and death should be called the great matter of death? After all, seeing the nature of one’s enlightening being is going to be experienced most often at that time anyway. Just saying~ when does the part about life come into the equation, hmmm?

    When one takes note that the very existence of this website is claimed to exist in order to promote the APPLICATION of such transformational experience and sharing for the benefit of the living, I am tempted to ask, just when does one hope to apply the effective enlightening experience that one has sincerely prepared for during a lifetime of spiritual practice when it is “often” understood that such enlightenment generally occurs anyway at the moment of death?

    As for the conjecture that such practice is “often suggested” to be effective preparation for the moment of one’s extinction, I would counter that it is not the moment of one’s death that one is preparing for, because, simply put— when you’re dead, it’s too late. Who exactly is experiencing enlightenment at the moment of death? The person? I assure you, there is no such a one. Therefore, who, in precise terms, applies the power of nonorigination at and beyond, both entering and returning through the boundary of no return? That would be the same one who applies its power in the midst of the karmic realm. Again, it is not the person. Authentic practice is that which allows the real to be expressed in enlightening activity by virtue of the person, yet not by the person who would depend on personal intent and power of relative influence. Buddhism calls such activity “subtle spiritual adaption. Who is this adaptive element?

    The point of gradual enlightening practice is to somehow harmonize and align in resonance with true inconceivable reality by one’s very approach to life, in the midst of this dream (by virtue of this dream) in order to fuse the dual by its inherent transcendent essence naturally; whereby one eventually (by failing to entertain anticipatory consciousness), spontaneously finds oneself by inconceivable penetration into a realm that has never begun. Then, after seeing its absolute nature as no different than one’s perfectly nonoriginated selflessly aware self, to once again assume the created aspect and learn to apply the inherent knowledge of selfless awareness in the midst of the realm of delusional birth and death. Therefore sudden realization during one’s lifetime does not confer buddhahood. During such experience, one only realizes the one has always been thus without beginning, and that such is the same as neither before nor after, birth nor death, person nor existence, right nor wrong, good nor bad. Furthermore, just this is not different than the nature of life and death in the very midst of our own delusions.

    Again, I am not suggesting that your observation is outrightly flawed, but I must clarify for you and for those who would care to get to the bottom of the great matter, that when it comes to enlightenment, nothing is gained by its realization during one’s life. How much less is gained by “…practice to prepare for this moment…” by one’s death?

    One such as the OP has gone to the “other” side. To experience an undeniably authentic moment of selfless realization and then entertain many months of doubt and self-pity in its aftermath, and not once mentioning anything relative to setting to work right away to refine that experience… such is pure folly! I completely understand it though. Sudden realization is an inconceivably huge pill to swallow. Gautama Buddha spent years in the aftermath of his experience tempering the maturation of the true teaching of Mind’s real knowledge, but hardly anyone talks about that.

    Please do not assume that enlightenment at the moment of one’s death is acceptably sufficient to authenticate its application of power and then be satisfied that such experience is in any way considered to be a satisfactory endeavor to keep the knowledge alive. It must be never overlooked that seeing potential in the midst of delusional existence not only does not depend on the sudden, it is to be practically applied both before AND after the sudden. Why doesn’t enlightening activity depend on sudden realization of the absolute nature of nonorigination? It is because the knowledge of true potential is already your own mind right now; this is why the buddha said that nothing whatsoever is gained by complete perfect enlightenment.

    It is necessary to get to work right away. That enlightenment is the very scene before your eyes right now makes no whit of difference from the predicament that the OP is projecting. Before or after the sudden is one continuum. Who knew?

     

     

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by deci.
    #397970
    deci
    Participant

    “That awareness being itself as oneself is ever-ready potential awakened to reality all at once without having to begin”, from the sixth line of the seventh paragraph, should read (omitting the first word “That”) as:

    Awareness being itself as oneself is ever-ready potential awakened to reality all at once without having to begin.

    Everything else that I wrote above is as I had intended. This forum’s edit parameter is pretty strict— so I’m glad I did have the opportunity to edit the prior post once though!

    #397968
    deci
    Participant

    per the OP… who never responded to anyones’ posts~

    After my awakening, I was kinda clueless what to do about the suffering associated with it – the Ego fought back with creating an identity around the subject “life was pointless.” Taking things personal does not make sense to me anymore. That is probably the reason that everything I tried in order to control the process,  like exercising, meditation felt useless. It made no sense to “get better”.

    This is the kernel …and the proof, that absolutely nothing is gained by complete perfect enlightenment. If something were gained, it wouldn’t be enlightenment. Actually, that the palpable takeaway is a feeling of loss, proves one’s authentic experience beyond the created, the incremental— by a selfless absorption into nonorigination, hence its selfless (objective) knowledge.

    Nevertheless, of all those who see Essence according to their inherent spiritual potential, even of those whose powerful experience constitutes the Absolute, and know that limit, and witness the stages prior to the dichotomy of the creative (Change), also realize that reality has never fallen into the creative; that awareness as your own mind right now has never moved from where it hovers, on the brink of going into action in perpetuity~ what would one hope to fix? It is already thus.

    The ancients have all admonished those who, having stumbled into such a wonder through no effort or will on their part, to take up the path of self-refinement at once, or else squander an opportunity of inconceivable proportions. That “…ego fought back with creating an identity around the subject “life was pointless”, constitutes the work of gradual practice in the aftermath of the sudden. It is clear that any notion of depression, self-pity, apathy, malaise, melancholy, et al, are all just the psychological acrobatics of ego unable to hide— yet hiding none the less by insinuating itself as depression, self-pity, apathy, malaise, melancholy, and on and on. It continues to masquerade under any pretext or rationale in the face of its great lie.

    The work of self-refinement in the aftermath of the sudden is the work of a lifetime with the caveat that Real Knowledge of selfless nonorigination beyond any notion of personal absolute identity is a potential deal-breaker for our friend ego. Taoism says that the first trip is short (has an ending): this is the sudden. It says that the second trip is long (is endless): this is gradual practice in the aftermath of selfless sudden realization where it becomes apparent that there is nothing to know, there is no one knowing in terms of awareness being void of voidness constituting the nature of awake, being a selfless inconceivable capacity never having begun. This is who we are. This is the basic experience. It is not special, per se; simply uncommon and beyond convention. What is necessary, over a course of years (Gautama Buddha was no different), is to quell one’s biases and inclinations to arrive at a point where one simply accepts one’s function, takes the forward step, and shares oneself freely with open hands.

    In the aftermath of witnessing the Great Cycle, it should be expected that one’s return to “normal” would seem impossible. But normal is simply seeing what is as is without interjecting the psychological momentum of one’s lifelong biases and inclinations relative to the pattern-awareness being the false identity of the knower, thinker and liver of life. It is possible to go through life’s karmic situational evolutions without bringing up self-reifying tags relative to one’s personality identifications— and that’s not just after the sudden. Why? Enlightenment is already your own mind right now. It’s not a different mind: it’s just not your mind. It’s you, you are not it. Just don’t use your mind. Not using your mind is your own mind right now without entertaining notions of the knower, thinker and liver of life.

    The reason it is so, not to mention that such is possible to carry out naturally in the midst of delusion, is that such is natural. It’s just not expressed relative to the person, or anyone else’s knowledge. Even so, this is carried out in the open because awareness is already impersonal, objective immediate knowledge. Potential is awareness being itself. There is no cause. That awareness being itself as oneself is ever-ready potential awakened to reality all at once without having to begin. Just this doesn’t refer to mystical experience or its aftermath relative to recalcitrant ego-tantrums admitted as evidence by the OP, it is so by virtue of having a body. The spiritual function not being the person, per se, is just the way it is and no one knows why.

    Self refinement, whether practiced gradually before or after the sudden makes no difference. Simply failing to exercise self-reflective consciousness unawares is self-refinement. Following thoughts unawares is delusion. Mind is one. The light of Creation is karmic bondage; turning the light around, self-reification becomes selfless wonder on the spot. The light is one.

    Selfless authentic practice is carried out unbeknownst to anyone by seeing reality by virtue of delusion. I hope it is obvious that selflessness has no moralistic connotations relative to self and other, good and bad, right and wrong, or even before and after. Buddhism calls such practice subtle spiritual adaption in mutual response. This means that one’s selfless adaption to conditions is precisely and naturally perfect accord with the situation according with the inherent potential of the situation itself. Discriminatory consciousness and deliberation relative to the person has no place to act. Seeing potential is immediate knowledge based on awareness void of personality distinctions. Obviously habit-energy’s psychological momentum based on ordinary necessarily functional pattern-consciousness is a hard nut to crack. The function itself is not faulty. Habituation to its use relative to the person to the exclusion of fluid, open awareness is where the fault lies. Ego isn’t the perpetrator. THERE IS NO PERPETRATOR. That’s why there is no “getting better.” What would there be to get better? The notion of suffering relative to the OP’s classification is just the ego-antics of the thieving impostor of all time expressing self-importance as self-pity.

    Self refinement, either before or after the sudden, is a perpetual process of refining away the human mentality as it reverts to naturally serving one’s enlightening function which accords inherently with situational evolution throughout endless transformations. Just this is inconceivable accord in reality entering the profound mystery. By virtue of having a body, it’s not the person. How wonderful is that?

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by deci.
    #397744
    deci
    Participant

    Lindzee wrote:

    The Chariot is a card about overcoming conflicts and moving forward in a positive direction. One needs to keep going on and through sheer hard work and commitment he will be victorious.

    A very important aspect of the Chariot tarot card is successfully balancing the intuitive and rational capacities in one’s application of will in a given situational context. “Winning” by proceeding in a manner expressing the continuous subtle balance of one’s psychological and nonpsychological capacities is the work of struggling to apply subtle adjustments without letting up throughout the the various situational increments in which one manages skillful and appropriate adaption.

    Although conventions relative to “winning” might come to mind in terms of self-reflective connotations —in terms of using situations to refine one’s self, simply adapting one’s intent, curiosity and sense of desire to meet the needs of the situation by teaming insights derivative of ego-desire and objective intuition in a balanced way could be seen as “winning” as well.

    #396713
    deci
    Participant

    hi Tiny~ though it is possible to do so, it is simply another relationship no different than any other… that being said, the way I can say to initiate contact is through *surprise* open, sincere beseeching by virtue of one’s utterly authentic, selflessly vulnerable expression in whatever context comes naturally to you in the wonder of authentic contact.

    I never intended to do so, but in response to my prayer, I received an immediate response. The sparkly little thing bounded and bounced, careening down two hallways as I thought to myself, “ghosts” —before it turned a couple laps around the dark perimeter of my bedroom with a fascinating glinting luminescence reflecting along the walls and corners of the room. As it circled from left to right around the room before entering my body (right kidney area) with a distinct sizzling sensation, my only thought was “it’s already the same as me anyway.”

    For myself, I wouldn’t dare initiate such contact deliberately (in terms of anticipatory consciousness), as I can never trust what degree of personal motivation might energize the necessarily karmic event, much less foretell what inconceivable being might be summoned. But, a girl’s gotta do what a girl’s gotta do. In my case, what was gained or lost amounted to nothing whatsoever, except a bit of real experience in terms what it took to arrive at such a summoning, deducing the universality of the nature of being and relativity, intent, and reciprocity, and the fact that, in the quest of knowledge, in terms of  absolute nature, there is no thing— and just that much is already who you are, and nothing can be done about it nor can one do anything with it other than to turn its potential into karmic evolution~ which is what the realm of creation already is. Entry into the inconceivable is going in reverse. The Light is one; Mind is one. Following it is birth and death; turning the light around, the world reverts to reality on the spot.

    As for justifying such initiatory contact, only open sincerity in pure vulnerability for no reason other than to express a fluidity of intent for the hell of it would suffice in my summation.

    Ultimately, as clarified above, it’s just another relationship… as far as that goes. At any rate, one’s true authentic teacher is already the essential quality of awake, being the nature of one’s own mind right now. It seems spirit guides et al, aren’t further or closer to the source of the currently relevant transmissions and the various prior illuminates’ methods and directives adopted and perpetuated in such universally authentic teachings the world over, eon after eon. Mind is one, and it’s already you. It can’t be taught.

    The “zoomie” who loved me never said a word, and eventually, I sent it on its way~ heehee!!

     

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