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Murtaza

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  • #383515
    Murtaza
    Participant

    Dear Anagha Sonde

     

    I was thinking about your question (is marriage the purpose of life) i think the answer depends on the person, for me a purpose means a strong desire to do something, and its good for me, does marriage meet those criteria? It also depends, will you be less miserable, less lonely when you marry? Do you have a strong desire to marry? Note that i don’t mean physically loneliness here.

     

    To help you, women TEND to be happier when they become mothers (there is exceptions), biologically speaken, for some (men too) it is the purpose of life to reproduce and marry

     

    My only concern is that, you shouldn’t marry because of fear (fear how people look at you, fear how you gonna end up)

     

    You said that (girls like me seen..) it doesn’t matter how they see you, what matters how you see yourself, you see yourself through thier eyes, through thier minds, but you shouldn’t, you should see yourself through your own eyes, your own life.

     

    First you need to see yourself without comparing to other girls, without using thier pov to judge your situation, use yours, look at yourself, your desires and needs, how to make it easier for anagha, how to make her happy? Marrige? To be a mother?

     

    You seem to think that marriage will immediately makes you happy, and your life/mind will be at ease, if this is the case, then im sorry, its no, definitely not, think of marriage as something extra, if you have issues living alone, i believe that you should fix those first, there is no magic pill.

    #383261
    Murtaza
    Participant

    Dear anita, i hope that this image of me (A+) won’t get in the way when i say something wrong (brust anger) that you will get disappoint, i was afraid (still afraid) of what i say/said that might disappoint you, this might filter what i really wanna say, but i don’t let it, what i need from you, to not have such high expectations for me, i always wanted to show the opposite, for people to have low expectations, then i show them the reality (which happened here :D) i remember from my sister favorite movie (phantom thread) the main character said “its expectations what ruin relationships, the image they hold” if i remember correctly.

    #383230
    Murtaza
    Participant

    Dear anita, you shared that you don’t like sharing, that you hate it, and only do it to help people, but i feel (assumption) you want to be helped just like you help people, you want people in the taproom to talk to you, treat you the same way you do to them (i hope some of them do), i wonder why you hate it? Why you hate something you want ? Because you wanted it for a long time? Thats what comes to my mind (you shared that once your uncle asked you what you are thinking, and you still remember how good it felt)

     

    I was thinking what made anita talk to me in the first place, (i feel new appreciation for you) you said, i wonder if you ever thought about wanting to be helped when you saw me, that i could accept your anger towards your mother (these are just doubts in my head, its a possibility that happened to me in the past, so excuse me for raising them) maybe its just that you wanted to help me, after all you do that with every member, i honestly don’t know how we get to this conversation, it developed fast.

     

    I think that I am like Max in the movie- emotions make me anxious, relationships alarm me. I prefer to avoid them, and I do. There is a person I care so much about, in another country, and yet, I don’t call

    I understand, if im mary and max told me that my messages makes him anxious, i would either talk about something that doesn’t make him anxious, or just stop.

     

    Maybe you can help me with this. (I never brought this up with anyone, this is the first time, online or irl)

    I can only ask things that will rasie some questions in your head, sadly its limited how i can help you through the internet, its even limited in real life, i wonder what is those feelings, that makes you very overwhelmed that you don’t wanna experience them (or is it something else you?)

     

    as is, a person like me needs a lot of alone-time and can’t take too much together time, prefers groups of people to one-to-one. Would that be something you would have wanted.. with someone (much younger) like me

    Definitely, i understand the age gap, though you are the only person that meet both criteria, the intellectual and emotional sides, in my past when i talked to females, most of them meet only one side (the emotional mostly since its easier) i had to drop my standards to talk to them, to drop a little of my persona, set it a side, never doing that again, the emotional side doesn’t matter to me no more, since it was very much inherited, the intellectual side however, the one that i control, in my mind, we are compatible, in my feelings, we are compatible, in real life its not possible, but i just like to acknowledge it, we don’t have to do anything, just talk, until we ran out.

     

    as is, a person like me needs a lot of alone-time and can’t take too much together time, prefers groups of people to one-to-one.

    If we are talking about a hypothetical scenario, and that we are both close, and there was no age gap (which it wouldn’t be possible im afraid but its hypothetical) i would give you as much alone time as you like, and the one on one is a downside, but its definitely worth it when it comes with the whole package.

     

    anger that was expressed on my face

    I would definitely like when you be angry (lol), i laugh when my little sister gets angry (its only happes when i care about the person)

     

    what is your experience with women, physically

    None lol.

     

    you are referring to, is it in regard to love online or irl

    Online, when people can be themselves.

     

    Murtaza, had one love relationship with one woman irl (and the relationship ended), then you would have been more likely to believe that it can happen again, with another woman.

    More likely? Yes, emotionally? Yes, intellectually? No, one experience doesn’t change the facts.

     

    I tried to edit the post above, and remove the “I would have run to you”

    Why? Its cute, in my mind its a hypothetical scenario, it will never happen, its more like a wish, i wish the same too, but we can acknowledge that wish (just like you did above) no need for further actions.

     

    it’s just that I felt guilty

    For what? I thought you were afraid (this is a public forum, and an online conversation) from this limitation.

     

    no wonder it is so difficult for you, full of youth,  to be caged in depression

    What i understood is that you never lived your youth, and that now those desiers and feelings is  youth? That you somehow trying to relive what you missed?

     

    these youthful emotions,  are not gone now

    I don’t believe there is a certain age where these emotions go, why do you call them youthful emotions? Why not just emotions? This assumes there is a limitation to one  could feel when he hit a certain age (its similar when someone puts a label to himself, and then when this label “as all other lables” becomes unsteady, he changes but the label doesn’t, then he will struggle, trying to  fit into the label “youth,old”)

     

    what is one to do with an emotion (energy- in motion) where there is nowhere for the motion to go to, suspended in the air, nowhere for it to land?

    If its more bad to feel them to the person then good, then yes whats the point, a person should always peruse the best possible outcome.

     

    In my experience, i would just feel them, not thinking about what comes next or anything, just trying to live the moment. (This is not an advice, lol) i think you best.

     

    a way that requires thinking outside the box.. so that you can.. even if it is for one day, spread your wings and fly up in the blue sky, going someplace.

    The first thing came to my mind is that “i create a rich fantasy world, then i won’t be dependent on people for my needs” but i already did that, i don’t think there is a way, its better to give up then to chase a very very rare possibility, ofcourse i can increase or decrease such possibility, but i refuse sadly.

     

    This post was made possible, in part, by a bit of red wine

    You makes me wanna try it.

     

    I posted earlier, for you to not be sad, i made a lot of mistakes in this post, which i hope you correct (i made a lot of assumptions, said things that may not be true, or hurtful)

    #383209
    Murtaza
    Participant

    dear anita, my replay gonna be late, you expressed a lot in your two recent post, i need time to think about what i said and what you said.

    #383131
    Murtaza
    Participant

    Dear anita

     

    felt angry at  you yesterday, before posting to you last

    I don’t want to communicate with Murtaza anymore, I will feel better if I am no longer in contact with him.

    It amazes me how self aware you are, how you describe your feelings in details, to respone: i am sorry for responding late, your feelings are very valuable to me, you shared a very sensitive things, and for that thank you, for being that open, i think that if i was ever with a person like you and we had a relationship, it would be a very good one, i can’t think of a better one.

     

    I was angry anyway, an automatic reaction

    It is alright, i understand, you don’t even need to explain, if you ever did feel that again, i wouldn’t mind if you expressed it either, im imagining you getting angry at me, expressing it, it looks cute, its funny too, i don’t know why (no offense).

     

    but in the rest of the apartment, it works, right..?

    It seems that its not broken, but the electricity is just too low, each room has an individual AC, and its a house, when i went to Turkey, i was amazed on how they manged money, apartments have only the important things, no extra space, in iraq, there is so much waste, if its in the housing area, or the house itself, so much unneeded stuff.

     

    It is more that I ask people questions, greet them warmly, pay attention to what they share over time and let them know that I remember, making them feel important, perhaps, and I express myself spontaneously as a response to what they say (facial expressions, smiling, saying witty things from time to time)

    As i read this, your image in my head look so beautiful, so beautiful that it makes me a bit sad that we are so far away.

     

    I hate expecting people to be consistent about anything, to be reliable, dependable because that’s not my experience with people

    I understand, to me i expect the worse of them, but i keep my expectations as realistic as it can be, in our conversation, i expect that we continue, and we gonna stop someday, either i gonna say something wrong, or we just run out of subjects (there is no possibility in my head that you gonna say something wrong, because you are perfect :D)

     

    as everyone else, the fortunate ones, free to live, while I was not. Later on, as I broke through that vacuum and connected with some others, eventually, I got to see that I was not the only one suffering

    Yes i understand, its black and white, its more like degrees.

     

    Coming to think about it, it is the imagining of the unrealistic and untruthful (eternal living without pain) that is dangerous, which brings so much pain

    Very true, this is what happened to me with love, i had so much expectation for it, so much unrealistic thinking about it, it was quite a shock to know the truth, the ugly truth i call it, its ugly not because this is how it is, but because i thought that it was more beautiful then it actually is.

     

    The glimpse of hope that their friendship is immortal is unrealistic thinking

     

    My bad, by immortal i meant she will always remember him, remember thier friendship, it will die with her ofcourse (by immortal i meant that it will stay as long as she lives) but i used the wrong word for poetry effects, i do it quite often actually.

     

    One true togetherness makes future togetherness possible because you already have that experience. You can believe something to happen again because it already happened.

    Im afraid i didn’t understand that, im not that smart after all lol.

     

    It is as if parts of yourself are right here, right above me, tangible, I can touch them, touch the paper if I stand up on a chair, touch the paper you touched, which you wrote on.

    You shared a very personal part of yourself in here, especially with your feelings, i want to do the same, i want to tell you what i felt reading your post, i felt love for you, gulit for not doing what i can to go where you live and be around you, sadness, frustration, my thoughts is “i wish..” then i stop this thought, it angers me, i then blame myself, its all comes very fast, and its also automatic, this is embarrassing and dangerous, you could end the conversation here, i hope you don’t, in my defense, i just say that i don’t control my feelings, however i do control my actions, and in our conversation, i won’t project my feelings, or do any of that, i did felt this for a while now, and our conversation stayed the same.

     

    and in so doing, I was to ruin a whole lot

    I don’t think you can ruin this by only anger, i think that what i gave you, and what you gave me, can’t be ruined, at least in my opinion, if you felt angry at me and ended our conversation, i will understand, i won’t forget our conversation, how you liked me even when i said all those things, how nice and understanding you are, how i appreciate such person, even if he don’t wanna talk to me, im will be sad that this wonderful person chooseed to not talk to me.

    #383119
    Murtaza
    Participant

    Dear anita, my apologies for my short post, there is two reasons why this happened

     

    A. I wrote a very good post, then i lost it, so i couldn’t say the same things, it would  be a pain

     

    B. These days im so tired, my meds start to go deeper on dopamine, im feeling more tired, everything seem pointless, just effort with no reward, on top of that the heat is increasing, and my air conditioner is kinda broken

     

    We have two sources of power, generator subscription by people (with a limited amber based on what you pay) and electricity from the government, which comes every two hours (unlimited amber usage) the thing is, the electricity from the government comes low, even if its unlimited, the air conditioner can’t generate cold air, it happens just in the summer when too much people use it, since the number of people increased over the years, and they did nothing for that, the power plan is so old, it was built for few people, back in the 90s.

     

    Also, the plot made me think of you and me, of course, the Max-and Marry connection,  I mean

    Yes, this is why i suggest it.

     

    I was sad earlier that you didn’t post at the regular time, quite sad

    I am sorry.

     

    very much my experience although I’ve been quite intoxicated, literally and figuratively, at the taproom, enjoying social interactions with multiple people.

    I don’t imagine you talk with  personal things when you are in the taproom? No one understood your pain in the past, this is why i said alone mentally, i don’t think anyone chooses to be alone, i think that its something like a bad luck.

     

    normies support those in power, and parents are always in power over their young children.

    I understand.

     

    I felt badly about having written it to you

    It was a nice line, i liked it 😀

     

    I can imagine this, but I can’t believe it, being alone for so long I developed this believe, sad“- you said earlier that it is impossible for you.

    Impossible is over exaggerating word, what i meant, its very very unlikely to happen, to get back on what i meant here:

     

    I can imagine such thing, but i can’t believe it, in my mind, i HATE things i can’t believe in, so i should’ve said “I can’t imagine that” my mind will simply won’t allow me, i can force this imagination, but i won’t enjoy it, this is why when i started to believe that i can’t have a normal relationship, i started to imagine pity love etc, back then it was enough, in time i learned that this kinda of love isn’t worth it, so i kinda ran out, anything that is a bit unrealistic, my mind will disregard it immediately, one of the qualities of having a strong need for the truth.

     

    I don’t like this characterization, that of an “unfortunate soul”, suggesting a world of fortunate souls with two exceptions..

    I didn’t understand this part, can you elaborate more?

     

    To my understanding they are unfortunate souls because they are alone, in unlucky situations.

     

    then ended again because he died.

    It didn’t end, there was a glimpse of hope, the music choice support that, its sad with a little of hope, in the end max was looking at the ceiling, looking at marry letters, she then hold his hand, her friendship with him will remain in her memory, it was immortal.

     

     I hope that you will tell me what you like so much about the movie, and what parts of yourself do you see in Mary, what other parts do you see in Max?

    If you ever noticed, in life max, its black and white, in mary its colorful, my life is kinda black and white, what i liked about the movie, is that its realistic, max life is similar to mine, he workd a few jobs, he did few things, but he wasn’t happy, he wasn’t sad either, just living, the movie gives a closer look to the truth, with a little bit of hope, there is people like max, and they will always be alone, and its because of who they are, deserveing has nothing to do with it, my brother is (who also on the autism spectrum) is one, its just so good to see your suffering in other people (i feel that im not alone)

     

    In mary however i don’t see anything similar, i didn’t like that she got depressed and ruined her life over a letter from a person, i will never let an external thing move me like that.

     

    #383092
    Murtaza
    Participant

    Dear anita, i just wrote a two section of replays and my browser shut off completely, i will mention what i wrote later (hopefully) but right now i will answer your post.

     

    clearly I did not perceive you correctly on both occasions

    I think you being nice here, it was my fault, especially the first time, i gave you every reason to stop.

     

    I didn’t understand that kind-of question

    I was thinking that no one gave you what you want, not because its hard to have (since its small thing) but because (one of the reasons) you are alone, by alone i mean mentally.

     

    my own definition of normie, one I feel strongly about, personally: a normie is a person who defends and excuses an abusive parent at the expense of the abused child/ adult-child.

    This seems like a good definition, although i wanna ask you, why this “norime” do such thing? Im asking your opinion.

     

    Imagine a person coming to you, offering to be with you willingly, generously

    I can imagine this, but i can’t believe it, being alone for so long i developed this believe, sad.

     

    the problem about winter is wetness and ICE, people slip and fall walking

    There isn’t anything good in this world is it? Lol

     

    ever since I saw the movie Unforgiven:

    Unforgiven is one of my favorite western movies, i really like clint Eastwood, not just as an actor, but a director, he is old school but very cool.

     

    I remember the scene you mentioned, one of my favorite scenes is when they told him that his partner is dead, he immediately grabs the alcohol, even though the whole movie he said no to it.

     

    I will replay to the rest of your post tomorrow.

    #383026
    Murtaza
    Participant

    Dear anita

     

    of your time, you meant- thank you.

    Not just my time, but the help you wanted.

     

    I don’t want to ever stop talking to you. On the other hand, I know that I did- twice

    You did, with a good reason, and i understood why.

     

    “Murtaza says so. He’s the One other person on my side= No one other than him expressed anger at her. He is indeed the Non-Normie”

    I didn’t thought that this small thing i gave mean so much to you.

     

    so that I am not alone angry at her for the ways she mistreated me. I needed someone by my side, and you are The One.

    I thought about that, and i said to myself “that’s it?” It seems so small to ask for, i just felt that one of the reasons might be is because you are alone(?).

     

    and I trust you to mean it

    I do, i was very angry when you first told me, it always botherd me when i see injustice happening, when i hear about it, makes me both frustrated and bit angry, although i haven’t felt that in a while, because there was no one, i told you that my feelings are valuable to me, and i channel them to the people i think worth it.

     

    and she is proud of you, isn’t she

    Yes she is.

     

    I am very low tech, but is it possible to spell out the link with spaces instead of copying and inserting it here?

    I realized that some free streaming sites might be illegal in your country and you might get in trouble, its not worth it, and the other option is bit complicated.

     

    I think about you living here, how you would like a much cooler area

    When i think about living in a different place, i just imagine how my persona would crash with other people, in a good way, it would be interesting to talk to norimes, sometimes.

     

    although global warming is here loud and clear

    If i can go to any country, i would choose the coldest one, i know i will miss the sun, but its better, i imagine that its so cold, that i grab my blanket, or better grab a person, though the latter is bit expensive, and just sleep restfully, i would imagine going out, at first its so cold, but then your body adjust, i would imagine going outside drinking coffee, smoking.

     

    you said something about the word “deserving” i think that one thing people miss when they say this word is that they assume the world is fair, thus thier work, thier effort must be rewarded, they deserve it, because they worked for it, this is good on paper, but in real life it can disppoint so many people, they work without reward, where is the deserving part?

    #382992
    Murtaza
    Participant

    you woke up around 7 am this Friday. I wonder if you had breakfast before you turned on your computer. (No need to answer, it is just a wondering)

    It was around 5 or 6, i replay to you using phone, because its more comfortable then to do it on the computer, besides its hotter in my room (and i learned that the wether of the room could change my response, the way i sit also) so i lay down while i write to you, i didn’t had breakfast the other day (which was a mistake because answering you take about 1 hour or so), i usually wake up doing things for half an hour before i eat, sometimes workout sometimes shopping, sometimes just lay and watch tv. Sometimes i take more then half an hour.

     

    how strange it is to receive the highest quality help without paying for it, just like that, for free

    You did pay for it, from the beginning of our conversation, even at (i can’t cry anymore), i don’t usually use the word “deserve” but you deserve that help, even more, from all members in here, not just me, if we live in a fair world, you very much deserve that.

     

    I said to myself: better not take too much of it, better not work you to exhaustion!

    You can take as much as you want.

     

    and before I read the rest, I thought to myself a parallel thought: I am afraid that I might get angry at Murtaza again

    I don’t mind it, just know that i perfer that you be angry at me and Express it then to leave and not say anything, i won’t stop talking unless you say so

     

    it is as if I saw evil for the first time, as I held her image in my mind, looking at me with those evil eyes, it is as if I met with evil for the first time, holding her image.. as if I didn’t know that evil really exists till now.

    Do you think that, because i said so, that she is evil, you started to believe that about her? Or is it because something else? Because maybe the guilt stopped you from thinking about this and you never tried to think of her like this?

     

    you say it like a personal part of me is valuable

    It is.

     

    like I am  valuable

    You are.

     

    and I say to the voices: yes, of course there were/ are people  kind to me, it’s just that this here is special

    now i have some assumption, but i just wanna make sure (if its gets too boring i understand), what did i gave you that was special? That people couldn’t give? Understanding? Validation? A combination of both and other things?

     

    I imagine young boy Murtaza, as she screamed at me, there is Murtaza “furious (telling her): ‘how dare you even talk to her like that? Are you even her (mother)? What did you do to her to be her (her mother)?’ (She) didn’t reply”, and “from what (anita) remembers it was so satisfying”.

    When i talk about this day with my sister, i tell her (this is my favorite episode) she laughs. It was something i remember and be proud.

     

    what exactly do I google to watch the particular episode you are referring to?

    Its mary and max 2009, a movie, not tv show, i don’t know how you could watch it though, there is free streaming sites on the web, if you still want to and don’t know where to watch it from, i can give you a link? Maybe in emails? (I think that this site doesn’t accept links?)

     

    It is a bit scary, to share beyond what I already shared in these forums

    Its completely fine if you don’t, and my question was more about to show care for you then to know, you can choose what to tell me (whitout me asking and answering them), just say so in the next post and i will be happy to replay to them, maybe discuss them (i like that we are discussing anita, and would love to do more, if you want to) though if you think its enough, then its enough.

     

     I hope you are sleeping restfully right now

    I did, i hope you have a good day.

     

    #382967
    Murtaza
    Participant

    Dear anita, as i read your post, after i just wake up, i smile, even laugh at times.

     

    Part of me feared yesterday that you will turn against me, that you will.. drop this gentle, supportive empathetic “mask”

    I understand where this is coming from, though you should know, that since you showed me something i haven’t see in any online interaction, i always wanted to give back to you what you gave me, when i talk about your life, i won’t show any of the argumentative Murtaza, just gental and kind and understanding Murtaza.

     

    trusting you enough to place you in the position to possibly hurt me, to possibly betray my trust in you

    I feel afraid that i might, if i do without knowing, without meaning to, could you please tell me? To not end this conversation as soon as i do that? To just point it out so we can discuss it/ tell you my pov?

     

    you-are-a-sweetheart was my first thought as I read this part.

    Thank you anita, this makes me feel warm.

     

    I can imagine how very fortunate (and I mean it, I am not just saying this to be nice) a young woman would have been to experience your gentleness irl, right there, were you are

    Thank you, i too think the same about you, that how fortunate people will feel when they get to know you/ experience your gentleness, i still remember what you said to me back in the first time we talked, i was very  lucky to talk to such person, still i am.

     

    I didn’t notice it was anger until you pointed it out.

    I felt it was anger, when i imagined you writing it, i felt you you were bit angry and wrote this very fast, it was cute imagine you like that.

     

     I never, NEVER expected to be helped in this way

    Im very glad, although im not doing anything really, im just being myself, i think we just have a somekind of rythm, the result of us, the person right here, is compatible, so this is why we help each other easily, it comes natural, although i feel in your part, you did more to understand and accept me, thank you for that.

     

    it is as if an angel has descended on me with all his wisdom,

    Its funny you wrote that same exact example i gave you in our past post, i too felt like you are an angel, still do

     

    she was god, but a bad god

    I think this is a very well description of her, evil god.

     

    I just felt guilty saying “the crazy woman”. Do you want to give me your Voice on this

    I like that you asked, that you shared this personal part of you.

     

    I think that its fair to call her that, any sane person wouldn’t hit or do what she did to her child, i don’t doubt for one moment that she wasn’t crazy, though even if she wasn’t crazy, you shouldn’t feel guilty (its ok to feel guilty though, because you were programmed to feel this way) because what she did to you, i think that you are allowed to say anything about her

     

    From what i see is (a person did a very bad thing to another person for a long period of time, made him live life on the edge for the rest of his life, now this person is very angry at what has been done to him, a normal reaction, now the person feel guilty by this normal reaction, that he even has it in the first place) in this case (i hope it is right?), don’t you think that the person should allow his normal reaction to be free of gulit or shame (?)

     

    That his gulit coming from an unvalid value, not the truth

     

    psychotherapist I ever had didn’t say what you said here. What do you know.. he too was too much of a normie.

    I think that his values and beliefs that was handed to him was in the way, he didn’t feel sorry or angry for you because he was told that mothers are highly valued, i think (and this is my humble observation) that this value made him block the feeling, block the evil that has been done to you, there might be other reasons ofcourse (i only know few, so im only saying this from your little words about this subject), i don’t blame norimes for being this way, i understand, its only when you doubt everything, that you begin to see things more clearly, without any values and beliefs.

     

    I must stop, I am afraid to misunderstand the situation you described. I don’t want to repay your understanding of me with a misunderstanding of you

    I admit that i too feel afraid that i might not say the perfect things for you, that i might say something you don’t wanna hear, but i say it anyway, and i be as nice as possible, don’t worry anita, anything you say is acceptable, i don’t want you to be afraid to write, also just know, you don’t owe me anything, you don’t have to repay, because you already did helped me the same way im helping you, we are equal, what a very wonderful thing to feel/write

     

    Was it courage?

    I think yes, i remember a few moments of my life, where i did some things for the people i loved, some things that was so hard for me to do, i told you this, because i was implying, that i wish i did this for you too, to stop the injustice that happened to you

     

    To know that my post, my humble replay, made you feel good, and that you think im very special and brilliant, makes me feel good, because its coming from a person i highly value his opinion, that he doesn’t just say things randomly.

     

    The other day i watched mary and max for the 3rd time, it would mean a lot to me if you see it, i rewatched it because i wanted to see how similar it is to our conversations.

     

    Would you mind telling me anything (safe) about your present? I feel like i know nothing about you, maybe your day? Just to imagine where this young female, ended up.

     

    Hope you haveing a good day.

    #382873
    Murtaza
    Participant

    Dear antia, as i read your post, especially at the end “no one felt angry at her” “you the only one who did” “everyone criticize me for that anger”, i teared up, it was a long time since i felt this way.

     

    everyone else would have made assumptions, assumptions that would have terribly annoyed me and cause me to regret I ever shared this stuff

    I understand anita, everytime i tell people a little about my life, they immediately assume the rest of it, not only that but they are sure that this assumption is true, in my post to you, i never made an assumption that im sure its true unless you confirm it. (I admit i made some bald assumption in the past in our conversation, and for that im sorry)

     

    I said that “you are kinda famous, liked in here” you wrote that it is not true, i believe i said this because the first time i saw what you do here, i liked you very much, because you dedicate time and effort for every member, your detailed replay showed how you much care about everyone, and that i thought everyone sees you that way, and that everyone (like me) waits for your next replay, i never saw your replay to people though, but i made an assumption without any proofs.

     

    They need someone to walk into their home and help them out. Online advice is impotent

    Yes, true.

     

    this offer indicates that you are gentle

    Sometimes i wish that i can practice this gentleness, though i can only do little through words

     

    I don’t think that I was able to imagine there being another person with me- she wouldn’t have allowed it, not in real life and not in my imagination

    What i understand from this is that she controlled your mind/imagination when you was around her, she was like the devil (in islam devil lives in everyone of us and he whispers us to do bad things) only she was worse, i can’t imagine you living like that everyday.

     

    You replied to my “mothers are highly valued, doesn’t matter if they are bad” “hope that this attitude will not show up in the rest of your post. This societal attitude”

     

    To answer: i was criticizing valuing mothers like that, because it gives them so much power, what i said “mothers are highly valued” was true (when i read the rest of your post), everyone who you told about your mother, either empathize with her, or give her excuses, no one was mad at her, no one hated her, she did this to you, because society allows this, if there was a law that stops her from being her, you wouldn’t have suffer that much, there is a reason why we have laws, to stop some people from being themselves.

     

    A voice within me, a societal/ normie voice says: she is your mother, she was a good mother, you are making things up, you are lying, you.. you.. you are the problem, a bad girl, disloyal to her mother.

    I understand, its now two voices against this, yours and mine.

     

    she murdered my love for her, and then, my love for her resurrected as the “living dead” from that movie- is my best image of my love for her: a love-corpse moving around clumsily, making strange grunting sounds

    So much anger in this sentence, im impressed how well you said this.

     

    She was big and angry back then, she had big, strong hands, I was short and thin, she was loud, she said: I’ll kill you, I’ll break you into many small pieces

    I would imagine that you wanted so much, so badly, to someone to release you from her, to interver and stops her, but no one did, because its “YoUr MoThEr”

     

    I don’t think any person in my life, ever, expressed anger at my mother except for you, particularly in the context of her interactions with me.

    I was always alone with my anger toward her.

    you not only were absued but no one even acknowledge that little thing, that simple and small thing, and you wished for so long that someone would just be angry at her, just be angry, its makes me so sad.

     

    No one took my side against her.

    When i first heard “she slapped me” i immediately hated her, and was mad at her, and i would think this is the least she did, but im bit surprised (i don’t expect a lot from normies) that no one hated her, hated what she did, was angry at her, it feels like the normal response to any sane person, that this gental and nice person right here were treated like a slave, (excuse my example)

     

    but NONE, EVER was angry at her for how she treated me

    No one felt your pain, no one validate your feelings about her, and you thought that you must be wrong, the evidence is everyone tells you are wrong, the whole world tells you to respect your mother, even if she is bad, to forgive her, how could that voice, that little tiny voice inside you beat the whole world?

     

    You wanted people to be angry at her for what she did to you, not other reasons, because then you would know that they know you are suffering, you just wanted that, them to know, what a simple thing to ask.

     

    To add to it: people criticized me for being angry at her

    Ofcourse they did, they have good mothers/ not aware of thier bad mothers because society brainwashed thier values and beliefs to not see the ugly truth.

     

    I needed, looking back, someone to come in that small apartment were I lived, and get angry at her, ANGRY

    This reminds me of something (although this post is mainly about you, though if don’t mention this i don’t think i will remember again in the future), i remember that when my father was alive, he used to bother us a lot, screams and stuff, one time he was screaming at my little sister, and i was furious, i told him “how dare you even talk to her like that? Are you even her father? What did you do to her to be her father?” He didn’t replay, from what i remember it was so satisfying.

     

    Your reply is very satisfactory to me. Thank you, a lot

    You are more then welcome, and thank you for trusting me.

     

    Feel free to not respond to everything I wrote, to choose this or that and reply to those things,

    I didn’t comment on everything (because i felt adding a comment to some of your replay would be not nice, and unneccessary) though you should know i understand most of it, and the part i didn’t i either assumed stuff (even when i don’t say “i suppose?” Anything about you and your personal life is an assumption by me, and that you are the only one who confirm it/say the truth) or just asked.

     

    #382846
    Murtaza
    Participant

    Dear anita, you said “we are equal” when i read this from you it was just a word, in your recent replay, i truely believed we are equal.

     

    being famous: dancing or singing in front of huge audiences, being a famous movie star, celebrated and worshipped by millions

    I think this desire comes from the unmet needs of this young female, to be seen and acknowledged, to be important in the eyes of people, to be loved, you are kinda famous here, and you are liked by the members (i suppose?), but its only because you help them (another assumption), not because you are you, you want more then that(another assumption:D)

     

    but in my communication with you, I am somewhat flying (!)

    I wonder why? I have some assumption to why, but i don’t like to assume stuff when i can simply ask the person

     

    I’m impressed by your detailed and great reply” (a compliment)

    I feel like the word “compliment” has been used to mean “saying nice things to people even if its not true”, but im guessing you know that i don’t do that (lol).

     

    As im replaying to you, im deleting/re reading your post, to make sure that i don’t say anything wrong or bad, its because your post is important both to me and you That you shared your personal life, and im not very good being antia i guess (lol)

     

    a compliment to you before I proceed: I think that you are brilliant!).

    Thank you, just to be sure (lol) do you mean overall or there is something specific? Just to know what i did to get this compliment (lol)

     

    She also told me while hitting my face back and forth with her big hand

    This actually makes me sad, a bit frustrated, because this happened to you, and that i can’t change it, that its outside of my control, to hear this abuse without having power to do anything.

     

    Sometimes when i remember my loneliest time, i would imagine there is a person with me, and he comforts me, hold me, have you ever had such thoughts? What was the scenario i wonder? (again, skip if its too personal)

     

    but I also thought that she was the problem.

    I would imagine that even thinking of this is a bit taboo, that your mother, the best mother in the world, that has no husband, and yet works for her only child, provides for her, so whenever you thought she is the problem, you would feel guilty of that thought, your logic and mind made you feel guilty and ashamed, “how dare you even think of that?”

     

    The thing is, that mothers are highly valued in society, doesn’t matter if they are bad.

     

    The conflict has been the mental torture all along: the back and forth internal fight between contradictory evaluations of myself and of her.

    I would guess that at first and for a long time, she would win, but when you started to not care about her, to not value her that much, the conflict get less and less

     

    She repeatedly threatened to kill herself (I remember her showing me her wrists, showing me where she would make the cuts)

    I would imagine that you loved her even if she was bad to you, and that you blamed yourself for that, she blamed you even

     

    she said she had to do it because of me, because of something I said, or should have said but didn’t

    How did you felt back then? What was your response? I would imagine you being afraid of talking, you being afraid of just existing next to her, that even if you don’t talk, she will blame you for it

     

    and because of what I was thinking. I didn’t tell her what I was thinking. She told me

    She is very narcissistic i see, she not only controlled your action, she even wanted to control your thinking.

     

    This torture harmed my brain: I developed severe OCD with elaborate compulsions and severe tics (Tourette Syndrome) starting at about 5 or 6 that further tortured me as I experienced social ridicule and rejection.

    I am very sorry anita. I feel both hate and anger towrds the person who did this to you, and empathy and affection for you

     

    I wanted to be rich and famous,  and give her a life of luxury. I wanted to be a movie star (a movie star..  with severe tics).

    I can feel this replay, its not just Sadness, there is more, especially at the end.

     

    being generous with them, giving them things she bought with her work scrubbing with raw hands, and then complaining that they are taking advantage of her, etc

    This is similar to what my mother would do, i would add that she thinks she is a saint by doing so, and that she is just a victim of the bad people surrounding her (though i should say im not comparing my mother to yours, just this quality)

     

    Well, I said that you are helping me. This post is my effort to help myself further because of you

    It actually helping me too, i see some of qualities of your mother in my own mother, and how you saw them and dealt with them helps me understand.

     

    because you were kind to me

    Now that i heard a bit about your past, i want to be even kinder 😀

     

     

    Btw i assumed many stuff to A. Tell you what i understood from your post B. To correct me if im wrong in my understanding, i also asked few personal things (i deleted some) so feel free to skip them, i appreciate that you talked about your life.

     

    #382816
    Murtaza
    Participant

    Dear anita, im impressed by your detailed and great replay, i don’t think i can do justice to it.

     

    You did not argue with me. What a relief

    I honestly didn’t know you feel that way about arguing, thank you for telling me.

     

    I think that I am argument-phobic

    Its werid because you good at it :D, and i think the reason might be because you lived alone for so long, you thought a lot about things, you learned how to think, the result is that you right now, think twice before you write anything

     

    repeating her message to me that my thinking/ my understanding is wrong (while promoting her unintelligent and/ or insane, and constantly shifting thinking as the correct thinking and understanding)

    I think i understand, though i like to leave no doubt, so i will tell you what i understood and you correct me (if the subject is personal and you wanted to only share that, just disregard this section and i will understand to not ask such stuff in the future)

     

    She (your mother) said stuff that isn’t true, though you felt they are, even when you know they aren’t, so you felt that you are the problem, that your understanding/logic is flawed, so you dislike argument because its unconsciously tells you that you are the problem, that your understanding is flawed, is this correct?

     

    I feel like im anita now lol, feels good actually.

     

    unheard. It was as if I screamed but no one heard.. as if my screams, literal or figurative (my intense fear and anger and excruciating frustration, shame and guilt) were silent, no one saw me, no one heard me, no one.. no one there.

    I wish that you had someone hearing you, i hope that this changed right now, that you don’t feel unheard like that anymore, would’ve loved to hear you, to do exactly what you do to other members and me, understand you and make you feel heard, and important

     

    And no, there was no internet back then

    How did you spend your day if i may ask? (Again disregard anything personal, no need to adress it, i will know that this was personal and i wouldn’t ask in the future).

     

    The Superior category is not homogenous: many within it are considered inferior and/ or feel inferior.

    Very true

     

    I said “What it comes to my mind is that, anyone who feel he can help you  that he can advice/ teach you (mostly)feel a bit superior…”

     

    I admit that i was a bit defensive here, i re thinked about what i said, and i think that there is a lot of reasons why people help others, and it oftens doesn’t feel like the other person think he is superior, a good example is teak, i don’t think she thought that she is superior (maybe a little bit), she did made me feel like that at first (she made fun of me not believing in freewill) and i did wanted to make fun of her belief of god, but i didn’t, cause i respect others beliefs no matter how werid they are to me, because to them it make sense, i didn’t like when someone make fun of my belief, so i won’t do that to people (unless it was for a greater purpose)

     

    I think that help mostly involves the things i mentioned above, but its not the other person intention, i think people intention (mostly) are well, but for me, since i have different values and beliefs, thier help usually conflict with those

     

    I think that it was something like this: a bird is caught in seaweed that is wrapped around her wings and body, she can’t move, she can’t fly.

    Very good example, i think that for some birds, just forget flying, and forget that they have wings, i think that the first is better, but it will involves much more strength, to be trapped for so long, yet still wanting to fly.

     

    #382776
    Murtaza
    Participant

    Dear antia, to correct myself, i don’t often feel sympathy for people (to understand the pain of others) but more empathy (to see my pain in others and feel it) from what i understand about the two words, that empathy doesn’t include only yourself but it can include other people pain, my point that i always looked for people like me, and i did that in movies since i couldn’t in real life, one thing about music and movies, is that when they say thier pain (and its similer to mine) i can feel it, with music its even better because they say it in a nice way, i feel like someone is saying those things for me, i feel like that i was put in silent, that the words have been taken away from me, and that this person is saying exactly what i feel, its somehow like he speaks for me.

     

    with equal/ comparable intelligence, a person like me: not more than me, not less than me. Empathy is in equality

    When i think about your life, i see a young girl, suffering from loneliness, alone, it must been so long after you be right here, when i try to visualize this, i put myself inside that girl mind, i can see why you wanted to help people online, from my pov, its because you don’t want for people to suffer like you did, you didn’t had internet back then (i suppose?) And you were all alone, so you didn’t want this to happen to all people

     

    When you said that i think my suffering is unique, and that im the only one who is suffering, i thought about it today, and from what i can say, is that all my family had worse suffering, and that you would be surprised if i told you that im  the least depressed person in this family, my point was, is that every person is different, and that we can’t measure suffering objectively, since every person have a different endurance to it

     

    The way I used to live, in social isolation and alienation, I was either inferior

    In here, i am truly inferior in other people eyes, unless they aren’t so brainwashed, sadly i learned that females tend to be more vulnerable to that by society, it makes me bit mad, that people give thier mind so easily.

     

     I did it under the assumption that they are superior to me

    What it comes to my mind is that, anyone who feel he can help you  that he can advice/ teach you (mostly)feel a bit superior, when i tell people about my life, they immediately see me inferior (because i don’t work, no social life etc) its knowing to them that being dominating socially makes you superior automatically, what they do is that, they start to assume that my life looks very much like a point of thier life (when they got kicked from a job, or when they got depressed) and start projecting thier experience on me, what bothers me isn’t them ultimately, but the fact that they have been told how to feel and think, and start telling me how to think and feel

     

    Anyone could validate you, but whats the point of this validation if it comes from a stranger? What value does it have? I think the same goes for love and attention.

     

     I didn’t know until then that it was possible to feel like that for any length of time, for even a minute. It was a very new emotional experience for me.

    I wonder if you ever felt like that again?

     

    it felt like all the fear, all the shame and all the guilt were squeezed out of my brain and body and were gone. So, I was happy

    So its more like having no bad feelings then actually having good feelings? I wonder how would you define happy, i somehow get the feeling that its “no suffering” and the evidence (devoid of any fear, shame or guilt.) Makes me feel bit sad for that young female.

     

    It is good talking to you this Sunday morning!

    What about other days:D

     

     

    #382729
    Murtaza
    Participant

    Dear anita, i was thinking of something the other day, my big brother is autistic and he kinda use my mother to get from her attention and to hear him out, she don’t mind since she feel like she is giving something (a sense of worth), the thing that bothers me is that i remembered our conversation,  if this is whats happening here, plaese lets end it because i won’t like myself

     

    Today i was thinking of my values, and although im fixable, i do value not hurting people and just leave them be, to live in peace with them, so from now on, i won’t answer another member that i don’t see a point of our conversation, and i won’t answer him unless i have something nice to say, i think that its better to not say anything then to lie, and i do appreciate thier help (kinda) but i don’t really feel thanking them, if i did im afraid it would be for other reasons, to use them for my emotional needs, just like my mother did with us, its something inherited and im trying not to do people like that, the thing is, without this, i don’t see a point of people, anyhow, this was supposed to be a quick post just to be sure that this conversation isn’t just about me, and if you make a lot of effort in it, i want you to lessen that effort, because i don’t put the same kinda effort, as you said, we are equal, and i want you to give in a reasonable amount, in a fair way, but im totally ok with both, i want you to be as comfortable as you can be, i will always remember our conversation as similar to mary and max, in this scenario, its even better

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