July 20, 2021 at 8:32 am #383124
I am writing you first this morning- before reading any of your recent post- because it occurred to me sometime last night that I was/ felt angry at you yesterday, before posting to you last, but I didn’t think much of it, but last night I remembered that you asked me and I will tell you next time I felt angry at you.
Well, it is quite embarrassing: simply, you didn’t post long after the time you posted recently, I felt somewhat distressed over it, willing to admit easily that I felt sad, but didn’t feel comfortable to think that I was feeling angry. The thoughts that occurred to me were quick, thoughts like you can’t depend on people, relationships (be it virtual, but this one is real to me) never work, it’s a recipe for disaster or disappointment, and before I knew it I had thoughts like: I don’t want to communicate with Murtaza anymore, I will feel better if I am no longer in contact with him. Then I felt sad, somewhat empty perhaps (I put the word “perhaps” to mitigate the “empty”, a sort of cognitive manipulation there).
When you finally posted, I felt relief, was not angry anymore. Now, looking back, it is amazing how quickly I went the anger route, it was automatic. And I remember thinking: maybe Murtaza is busy, maybe he is sick (this right now made me feel anxious, thinking of you being sick), but these thoughts yesterday did not win over the other thoughts.
And now, I will read and reply to your recent post, part by part:
“my apologies for my short post“- it was the absence of any post that obviously upset me, I was glad to get a post of the length it was.
“there is two reasons why this happened“- it makes me smile now, how you didn’t know (and couldn’t know because you don’t have mind-reading powers) that I was just happy to get your post, plus, you wrote that you lost a previous reply. And again, you were not at fault for successfully submitting a post later than usual. I was angry anyway, an automatic reaction.. evidence of how much disappointment I did experience early in life, and on.
“I wrote a very good post, then I lost it, so I couldn’t say the same things, it would be a pain”- I understand. It happened to me that I lost long posts many times. I am now in the habit of copying (pressing ctrl and C) before submitting every post.
“These days I’m so tired, my meds start to go deeper on dopamine, I’m feeling more tired, everything seems pointless, just effort with no reward, on top of that the heat is increasing, and my air conditioner is kinda broken”- the air conditioner in your room is broken, but in the rest of the apartment, it works, right..? It says online that the high today, Tuesday, was 50.5 Celsius- this is breaking my heart, and the first thought I had was to bring you over here. Climate change/ global warming scares the hell out of me. During the heat wave here, which was .. only in the 40s, I went into a cold bath every so often to cool off, and otherwise held ice packs against my body (they were not big enough and melted too quickly).
“We have two sources of power, generator subscription by people (with a limited amber based on what you pay) and electricity from the government, which comes every two hours (unlimited amber usage) the thing is, the electricity from the government comes low, even if its unlimited, the air conditioner can’t generate cold air, it happens just in the summer when too much people use it, since the number of people increased over the years, and they did nothing for that, the power plan is so old, it was built for few people, back in the 90s“- in the US too, power grid failure/ losing electricity happens. During heat waves, it is recommended/ asked that people don’t turn the AC too high, so to use less electricity and not overwhelm the power grid. I can imagine the frustration of losing a long, well-written post that you put together in the heat…!!!
I wrote about Mary and Max: “the plot made me think of you and me, of course, the Max-and Marry connection, I mean”, and you wrote: “Yes, this is why I suggest it“- aha! I thought it might have, but didn’t want to be too confident about it.
I wrote to you: “I was sad earlier that you didn’t post at the regular time, quite sad”, and you wrote: “I am sorry”- I feel sorry for you, in such heat with poor AC, putting together a long, well-thought of post and then losing it. But I appreciate it that you did spend time and attention on it.. in the heat, even though I didn’t get it. This is one of the times when effort means as much as the result.
Again, I notice I said “quite sad”, not angry.
“I don’t imagine you talk with personal things when you are in the taproom?“- no, I don’t talk personal things, I do not feel comfortable doing so. It is more that I ask people questions, greet them warmly, pay attention to what they share over time and let them know that I remember, making them feel important, perhaps, and I express myself spontaneously as a response to what they say (facial expressions, smiling, saying witty things from time to time), sharing little things, never big things. Except once, a younger woman asked me how it was when I was a teenager and I answered that I was thinking about suicide back then, something like that, and she said: “Wow, I didn’t expect that answer!” Of course, like I said, I don’t share things like that, and such responses are part of the reason… don’t want to mess with people’s expectations, to shock them, surprise them, etc. Don’t want to be judged. But then, hardly anyone shares very personal things at the taproom, and definitely not in a very personal way.
“No one understood your pain in the past, this is why I said alone mentally, I don’t think anyone chooses to be alone, I think that its something like a bad luck“- I didn’t choose to be alone. This mental alone-ness was like I was suspended in vacuum and everyone else existed over there, beyond my vacuum, living life un-suspended.
I wrote to you: “I felt badly about having written it to you” in regard to the imagining I suggested, and you wrote: “It was a nice line, I liked it (happy face emoji)”. How nice that you cared to cheer me up in regard to what I felt badly about…!
“Impossible is over exaggerating word, what I meant, its very very unlikely to happen“- difference noted.
“I can imagine such thing, but I can’t believe it, in my mind, I HATE things I can’t believe in, so I shouldn’t have said ‘I can’t imagine that’: my mind simply won’t allow me. I can force this imagination, but I won’t enjoy it. This is why when I started to believe that I can’t have a normal relationship, I started to imagine pity love, etc., back then it was enough, in time I learned that this kinda of love isn’t worth it, so I kinda ran out. Anything that is a bit unrealistic, my mind will disregard it immediately, one of the qualities of having a strong need for the truth“-
– This is a powerful paragraph, and I want to really understand it, thoroughly. I remember that you shared that your mother’s thinking is (my words:) the opposite of realistic thinking that adheres to the truth. It is a magical, superstitious thinking. I suppose this is why you became an atheist (like Max in the movie)- religion having so much unrealistic, untruthful thinking. I imagine that the words I am typing right now don’t express exactly what you mean, but I am trying to understand exactly. And as I told you before, I don’t edit what I write, not with you. Coming to think about it, I think that we have this in common, I too care a lot for truthful, realistic thinking- it is .. maybe the ONLY FREEDOM LEFT for me, the only power or.. only difference I can make in my life, to simply think truthfully and realistically.
Back to you imagining a woman loving you freely, willingly- you can imagine it but what’s the point of doing that when you will not enjoy it, because you don’t believe that it will happen, or more precisely, you believe that it is “very very unlikely to happen”. Plus, you HATE imagining things you don’t believe will happen. This reminds me of my anger yesterday when you didn’t post when I expected you to post- I hate expecting people to be consistent about anything, to be reliable, dependable because that’s not my experience with people, particularly, with my Mother, the Evil Presence in my life. She is the one that jailed me in that vacuum realm- suspended, away from the living.
I wrote to you: “I don’t like this characterization, that of an ‘unfortunate soul’, suggesting a world of fortunate souls with two exceptions..”, and you wrote: “I didn’t understand this part, can you elaborate more?“- hardly anyone asks me to elaborate on what I say, or I don’t remember it happening.. what I meant is that in the “vacuum realm- suspended, away from the living” I mentioned right above, I saw “the living” as everyone else, the fortunate ones, free to live, while I was not. Later on, as I broke through that vacuum and connected with some others, eventually, I got to see that I was not the only one suffering, not the only one with wasted years, wasted life. It was not me-and-them, it was a mix of people, anxious and suffering in different ways, different times, all .. sort of suspended between being human (mortal, in the flesh) and god (imagining immortality/ eternal living free of pain).
Coming to think about it, it is the imagining of the unrealistic and untruthful (eternal living without pain) that is dangerous, which brings so much pain, the not understanding that life is inherently painful and final, just like any other animal’s.
“…It didn’t end, there was a glimpse of hope, the music choice support that, its sad with a little of hope, in the end Max was looking at the ceiling, looking at Mary’s letters, she then holds his hand, her friendship with him will remain in her memory, it was immortal“- it is amazing, I keep writing a paragraph before reading your next paragraph and what you write next connects with what I wrote right before:
The glimpse of hope that their friendship is immortal is unrealistic thinking… wait, in her memory, it will stay, so she knows it’s possible, then of course her memory will end when she dies, or she may lose it if her brain gets injured or sick.. I may be splitting hairs here, overthinking. No, I don’t think that the ending of the movie is realistic in a literal sense. Figuratively it has a meaning, very much so. One true togetherness makes future togetherness possible because you already have that experience. You can believe something to happen again because it already happened.
“If you ever noticed, in life Max, it’s black and white, in Mary’s- its colorful. My life is kinda black and white. What I liked about the movie, is that it’s realistic, Max’s life is similar to mine: he worked a few jobs, he did a few things, but he wasn’t happy, he wasn’t sad either, just living. The movie gives a closer look to the truth, with a little bit of hope, there are people like Max, and they will always be alone, and it’s because of who they are, deserving has nothing to do with it. My brother is (who also on the autism spectrum) is one, it’s just so good to see your suffering in other people (I feel that I’m not alone)“-
It is amazing how we people need to not be alone, even if it is through watching a movie. Yes, you are not alone in being alone.. makes me think of these words that you see on your computer, or on your phone right now as you read it, think of it as words on paper taped to the ceiling. I see your words right now taped to the ceiling.. I took a few moments to visualize it, seeing your words up above me.. It is as if parts of yourself are right here, right above me, tangible, I can touch them, touch the paper if I stand up on a chair, touch the paper you touched, which you wrote on.
“In Mary however, I don’t see anything similar, I didn’t like that she got depressed and ruined her life over a letter from a person, I will never let an external thing move me like that“- maybe I see something about me in her: when you didn’t post when I expected you to post, I let that unmet expectation ruin my connection with you, at least on that day, or part of the day (yesterday), and in so doing, I was to ruin a whole lot: the results to-be, from that connection, more mental-togetherness, more understanding, more of that freedom to think what is true and real.
anitaJuly 20, 2021 at 11:05 am #383131
felt angry at you yesterday, before posting to you last
I don’t want to communicate with Murtaza anymore, I will feel better if I am no longer in contact with him.
It amazes me how self aware you are, how you describe your feelings in details, to respone: i am sorry for responding late, your feelings are very valuable to me, you shared a very sensitive things, and for that thank you, for being that open, i think that if i was ever with a person like you and we had a relationship, it would be a very good one, i can’t think of a better one.
I was angry anyway, an automatic reaction
It is alright, i understand, you don’t even need to explain, if you ever did feel that again, i wouldn’t mind if you expressed it either, im imagining you getting angry at me, expressing it, it looks cute, its funny too, i don’t know why (no offense).
but in the rest of the apartment, it works, right..?
It seems that its not broken, but the electricity is just too low, each room has an individual AC, and its a house, when i went to Turkey, i was amazed on how they manged money, apartments have only the important things, no extra space, in iraq, there is so much waste, if its in the housing area, or the house itself, so much unneeded stuff.
It is more that I ask people questions, greet them warmly, pay attention to what they share over time and let them know that I remember, making them feel important, perhaps, and I express myself spontaneously as a response to what they say (facial expressions, smiling, saying witty things from time to time)
As i read this, your image in my head look so beautiful, so beautiful that it makes me a bit sad that we are so far away.
I hate expecting people to be consistent about anything, to be reliable, dependable because that’s not my experience with people
I understand, to me i expect the worse of them, but i keep my expectations as realistic as it can be, in our conversation, i expect that we continue, and we gonna stop someday, either i gonna say something wrong, or we just run out of subjects (there is no possibility in my head that you gonna say something wrong, because you are perfect :D)
as everyone else, the fortunate ones, free to live, while I was not. Later on, as I broke through that vacuum and connected with some others, eventually, I got to see that I was not the only one suffering
Yes i understand, its black and white, its more like degrees.
Coming to think about it, it is the imagining of the unrealistic and untruthful (eternal living without pain) that is dangerous, which brings so much pain
Very true, this is what happened to me with love, i had so much expectation for it, so much unrealistic thinking about it, it was quite a shock to know the truth, the ugly truth i call it, its ugly not because this is how it is, but because i thought that it was more beautiful then it actually is.
The glimpse of hope that their friendship is immortal is unrealistic thinking
My bad, by immortal i meant she will always remember him, remember thier friendship, it will die with her ofcourse (by immortal i meant that it will stay as long as she lives) but i used the wrong word for poetry effects, i do it quite often actually.
One true togetherness makes future togetherness possible because you already have that experience. You can believe something to happen again because it already happened.
Im afraid i didn’t understand that, im not that smart after all lol.
It is as if parts of yourself are right here, right above me, tangible, I can touch them, touch the paper if I stand up on a chair, touch the paper you touched, which you wrote on.
You shared a very personal part of yourself in here, especially with your feelings, i want to do the same, i want to tell you what i felt reading your post, i felt love for you, gulit for not doing what i can to go where you live and be around you, sadness, frustration, my thoughts is “i wish..” then i stop this thought, it angers me, i then blame myself, its all comes very fast, and its also automatic, this is embarrassing and dangerous, you could end the conversation here, i hope you don’t, in my defense, i just say that i don’t control my feelings, however i do control my actions, and in our conversation, i won’t project my feelings, or do any of that, i did felt this for a while now, and our conversation stayed the same.
and in so doing, I was to ruin a whole lot
I don’t think you can ruin this by only anger, i think that what i gave you, and what you gave me, can’t be ruined, at least in my opinion, if you felt angry at me and ended our conversation, i will understand, i won’t forget our conversation, how you liked me even when i said all those things, how nice and understanding you are, how i appreciate such person, even if he don’t wanna talk to me, im will be sad that this wonderful person chooseed to not talk to me.July 20, 2021 at 11:21 am #383132
I was so happy/ am happy to read your recent post! I am too tired to reply to it at length (when emotions are involved, it’s tiring and it requires lots of time and patience), so I will respond probably tomorrow morning (in about 17 hours from now). For now, regarding the part that starts with “You shared a very personal part of yourself in here, especially with your feelings, I want to do the same“- my reaction: it is lovely, precious, special, welcomed. There are a lot of things I like in your recent post, which makes my day much better. I too appreciate you (it just felt strange to think that I am appreciated, it still feels strange to think that positively about myself). And you having guilt feelings in regard to me- I hope those are gone. You are an angel in my life, angels shouldn’t feel guilty!
anitaJuly 21, 2021 at 12:30 pm #383179
Before responding to your yesterday’s post I want to share something with you, as I noticed it today in greater depth. In my personal irl I avoid deep, emotional conversations, or I avoid interacting with the very few people that I feel strong emotions for, or against. I like the taproom because the emotions are not strong- for or against the people there. Even when I do feel strong affection for this or that individual (and I do), I know that it is time-limited: I visit the taproom, I don’t live there, and the interactions with different individuals is in groups, not a one-to-one setting.
Otherwise, in one-to-one, I often feel uncomfortable, and I crave to be alone. On the forums on this website, I feel fine interacting with people and sometimes I share something personal, but that is aimed at (trying to) help someone else. But with you, I formed a special connection, a Mary-and-Max kind of a connection. So what happens, is that every day I postpone reading from you and replying to you until I answer everyone else and you are the only one I didn’t reply to. Today I even studied other threads, not intending to post on them- before writing to you. I think that I am like Max in the movie- emotions make me anxious, relationships alarm me. I prefer to avoid them, and I do. There is a person I care so much about, in another country, and yet, I don’t call, I procrastinate for weeks at a time. Then when I am on the phone, feeling strongly for the person, I wait for the conversation to end, feeling relief when it is over. What I shared right here, I do not like.. I did not enjoy sharing, I hate having shared it. But I shared it with you. Maybe you can help me with this. (I never brought this up with anyone, this is the first time, online or irl).
As to your yesterday’s post: “I think that if I was ever with a person like you and we had a relationship, it would be a very good one, I can’t think of a better one“- as is, a person like me needs a lot of alone-time and can’t take too much together time, prefers groups of people to one-to-one. Would that be something you would have wanted.. with someone (much younger) like me?
“I’m imagining you getting angry at me, expressing it, it looks cute, its funny too, I don’t know why (no offense)“- that made me feel so nice when I read it yesterday (feeling nice just now, I realize how unfeeling I was when typing the above). To be seen as cute for being angry is precious. My mother did not see my anger as cute- she reacted very badly to my anger, anger that was expressed on my face.
“As I read this, your image in my head look so beautiful, so beautiful that it makes me a bit sad that we are so far away“- only yesterday I imagined you for the first time in a way.. you looked so real, in my imagination, more real than before, made me think of you as an almost here-and-now person.
“This is what happened to me with love, I had so much expectation for it, so much unrealistic thinking about it, it was quite a shock to know the truth, the ugly truth call it, its ugly not because this is how it is, but because I thought that it was more beautiful then it actually is“- I thought of asking you before, but didn’t, and if you choose to answer, better not with much detail: what is your experience with women, physically- if any (and the “ugly truth” you are referring to, is it in regard to love online or irl)?
“My bad, by immortal I meant she will always remember him..”- no, my bad, I am too literate, too invested in concrete language.
I wrote: “One true togetherness makes future togetherness possible because you already have that experience. You can believe something to happen again because it already happened”, and you wrote: “I’m afraid I didn’t understand that, I’m not that smart after all lol“- you are definitely smart and there’s no lol about it! What I meant was that if you, Murtaza, had one love relationship with one woman irl (and the relationship ended), then you would have been more likely to believe that it can happen again, with another woman.
“I want to do the same, I want to tell you what I felt reading your post, I felt love for you, guilt for not doing what I can to go where you live and be around you, sadness, frustration, my thoughts is ‘I wish..’..”- if I was your age, if time went backward and we were both as young as you are, I would have run to you.
anitaJuly 21, 2021 at 2:52 pm #383187
I tried to edit the post above, and remove the “I would have run to you”, but 5 minutes after submitting it, the Edit option was not available anymore. I wasn’t really into removing it, it’s just that I felt guilty. But my god, how spontaneous and how real it felt.. it occurred to me that the words might have come from a Whitney Houston song.. I just listened to a Youtube of the song “Run to you”, some of the words: “Hold me in your arms, keep me safe from harm, but if I come to you, tell me- will you stay, or will you run away?”-
– well, there is no doubt in my mind that my sentiment for you when I wrote the above (“I would have run to you”) was romantic. Isn’t it something… of course, such sentiment cannot be pursued further.. but my god, isn’t that amazing.. how youth is not the exclusive property of the young. My god.. the powerful emotions of youth.. so powerful, so earth shattering.. no wonder it is so difficult for you, full of youth, to be caged in depression.. waiting for the end, one day at a time- staying alive for another day, as long as it is not more painful than you can endure.. or should endure.
Youth- I wish my youth was not soaked with pain, as it has been. But the emotions and desire of youth existed then, while I was caged in pain and misery, and they, these youthful emotions, are not gone now. Because of you, I feel young today, right now. But like you would say/ or like I would say: what is one to do with an emotion (energy- in motion) where there is nowhere for the motion to go to, suspended in the air, nowhere for it to land?
No, it can’t be this way.. there has to be a better way- for you. There has to be a better way for you than to be waiting for death, a way that requires thinking outside the box.. so that you can.. even if it is for one day, spread your wings and fly up in the blue sky, going someplace.
(This post was made possible, in part, by a bit of red wine).
anitaJuly 22, 2021 at 8:38 am #383209
dear anita, my replay gonna be late, you expressed a lot in your two recent post, i need time to think about what i said and what you said.July 22, 2021 at 8:42 am #383211
Dear Murtaza: I understand, I thought (some time after I submitted the second of two recent posts, and before your short message above) that you would not rush to reply to such posts, given their content.
anitaJuly 22, 2021 at 2:21 pm #383230
Dear anita, you shared that you don’t like sharing, that you hate it, and only do it to help people, but i feel (assumption) you want to be helped just like you help people, you want people in the taproom to talk to you, treat you the same way you do to them (i hope some of them do), i wonder why you hate it? Why you hate something you want ? Because you wanted it for a long time? Thats what comes to my mind (you shared that once your uncle asked you what you are thinking, and you still remember how good it felt)
I was thinking what made anita talk to me in the first place, (i feel new appreciation for you) you said, i wonder if you ever thought about wanting to be helped when you saw me, that i could accept your anger towards your mother (these are just doubts in my head, its a possibility that happened to me in the past, so excuse me for raising them) maybe its just that you wanted to help me, after all you do that with every member, i honestly don’t know how we get to this conversation, it developed fast.
I think that I am like Max in the movie- emotions make me anxious, relationships alarm me. I prefer to avoid them, and I do. There is a person I care so much about, in another country, and yet, I don’t call
I understand, if im mary and max told me that my messages makes him anxious, i would either talk about something that doesn’t make him anxious, or just stop.
Maybe you can help me with this. (I never brought this up with anyone, this is the first time, online or irl)
I can only ask things that will rasie some questions in your head, sadly its limited how i can help you through the internet, its even limited in real life, i wonder what is those feelings, that makes you very overwhelmed that you don’t wanna experience them (or is it something else you?)
as is, a person like me needs a lot of alone-time and can’t take too much together time, prefers groups of people to one-to-one. Would that be something you would have wanted.. with someone (much younger) like me
Definitely, i understand the age gap, though you are the only person that meet both criteria, the intellectual and emotional sides, in my past when i talked to females, most of them meet only one side (the emotional mostly since its easier) i had to drop my standards to talk to them, to drop a little of my persona, set it a side, never doing that again, the emotional side doesn’t matter to me no more, since it was very much inherited, the intellectual side however, the one that i control, in my mind, we are compatible, in my feelings, we are compatible, in real life its not possible, but i just like to acknowledge it, we don’t have to do anything, just talk, until we ran out.
as is, a person like me needs a lot of alone-time and can’t take too much together time, prefers groups of people to one-to-one.
If we are talking about a hypothetical scenario, and that we are both close, and there was no age gap (which it wouldn’t be possible im afraid but its hypothetical) i would give you as much alone time as you like, and the one on one is a downside, but its definitely worth it when it comes with the whole package.
anger that was expressed on my face
I would definitely like when you be angry (lol), i laugh when my little sister gets angry (its only happes when i care about the person)
what is your experience with women, physically
you are referring to, is it in regard to love online or irl
Online, when people can be themselves.
Murtaza, had one love relationship with one woman irl (and the relationship ended), then you would have been more likely to believe that it can happen again, with another woman.
More likely? Yes, emotionally? Yes, intellectually? No, one experience doesn’t change the facts.
I tried to edit the post above, and remove the “I would have run to you”
Why? Its cute, in my mind its a hypothetical scenario, it will never happen, its more like a wish, i wish the same too, but we can acknowledge that wish (just like you did above) no need for further actions.
it’s just that I felt guilty
For what? I thought you were afraid (this is a public forum, and an online conversation) from this limitation.
no wonder it is so difficult for you, full of youth, to be caged in depression
What i understood is that you never lived your youth, and that now those desiers and feelings is youth? That you somehow trying to relive what you missed?
these youthful emotions, are not gone now
I don’t believe there is a certain age where these emotions go, why do you call them youthful emotions? Why not just emotions? This assumes there is a limitation to one could feel when he hit a certain age (its similar when someone puts a label to himself, and then when this label “as all other lables” becomes unsteady, he changes but the label doesn’t, then he will struggle, trying to fit into the label “youth,old”)
what is one to do with an emotion (energy- in motion) where there is nowhere for the motion to go to, suspended in the air, nowhere for it to land?
If its more bad to feel them to the person then good, then yes whats the point, a person should always peruse the best possible outcome.
In my experience, i would just feel them, not thinking about what comes next or anything, just trying to live the moment. (This is not an advice, lol) i think you best.
a way that requires thinking outside the box.. so that you can.. even if it is for one day, spread your wings and fly up in the blue sky, going someplace.
The first thing came to my mind is that “i create a rich fantasy world, then i won’t be dependent on people for my needs” but i already did that, i don’t think there is a way, its better to give up then to chase a very very rare possibility, ofcourse i can increase or decrease such possibility, but i refuse sadly.
This post was made possible, in part, by a bit of red wine
You makes me wanna try it.
I posted earlier, for you to not be sad, i made a lot of mistakes in this post, which i hope you correct (i made a lot of assumptions, said things that may not be true, or hurtful)July 22, 2021 at 2:40 pm #383231
I am not focused enough to reply now, but I will Fri morning, in about 16 hours from now. It says it’s 33.5 degrees now, where you are, 12:35 am, after midnight. Cooler for you.. I worry about the heat. I read your most recent post, but I knew beforehand, I trusted you- throughout today- that you will not disappoint me, and you didn’t. You are a decent, honest, good person, amazing, quite original in your authenticity, being true to yourself, you get A+ for personal integrity. Back to you later.
anitaJuly 22, 2021 at 5:35 pm #383261
Dear anita, i hope that this image of me (A+) won’t get in the way when i say something wrong (brust anger) that you will get disappoint, i was afraid (still afraid) of what i say/said that might disappoint you, this might filter what i really wanna say, but i don’t let it, what i need from you, to not have such high expectations for me, i always wanted to show the opposite, for people to have low expectations, then i show them the reality (which happened here :D) i remember from my sister favorite movie (phantom thread) the main character said “its expectations what ruin relationships, the image they hold” if i remember correctly.July 22, 2021 at 8:04 pm #383279
Your A+ will not get in the way. Check your g-mail, I sent you 2 “Testing” messages there. Did you receive them?
anitaJuly 23, 2021 at 9:13 am #383300
“I hope that this image of me (A+) won’t get in the way when I say something wrong.. I was afraid (still afraid) of what I say/said that might disappoint you, this might filter what I really wanna say, but I don’t let it“- please continue to not let fear filter what you really want to say.
“What I need from you, to not have such high expectations for me, I always wanted to show the opposite, for people to have low expectations… ‘it’s expectations what ruin relationships, the image they hold‘”- I don’t think that you will find many people with lower expectations from people than me.. until recently. My trust in people has gone from zero to a cautious 10%, and then yesterday, I trusted you completely and you didn’t disappoint me. Thing is, I trust myself enough, at this time- to believe that my trust in you is valid and deserved (deserves got something to do with it, in this context!).
What I trusted yesterday before receiving your response to my 2 highly emotional posts is that in your response, you will care for me, you will care for how I feel, and that you will want me to feel okay and in control.
Here is how you responded to my sentence: “I tried to edit the post above, and remove the ‘I would have run to you'”: “Why? It’s cute, in my mind its a hypothetical scenario, it will never happen, it’s more like a wish, I wish the same too, but we can acknowledge that wish (just like you did above) no need for further actions“-
Compare my expectation of you based on my trust in you and what you delivered, and you can see that there is a perfect match.
After reading the above, in boldface, I experienced an emotional awakening of sorts: I felt alive in a return-to-childhood kind of way, happy like a child, eager to live.. more open to people, feeling more comfortable than ever in the taproom, and then at 2 am last night, I woke up and couldn’t go back to sleep for the longest time because I was excited about life, about the next day. Although what awaited me in the next day was no different from any other day.
Back to your fear to say the wrong things and disappoint me: any time you feel that way, you can say nothing. Also, for the rest of July-August and part of September, the hottest part of the year, with inadequate air conditioning, I understand your difficulty in thinking and posting/emailing. (It is not at all hot where I live- until the next heat wave- so it is easier for me).
And now, in this long post, I will re-read your yesterday post and respond:
“I wonder if you ever thought about wanting to be helped when you saw me, that I could accept your anger towards your mother… maybe its just that you wanted to help me, after all you do that with every member“- at this time in my life, helping others and helping oneself is the same thing, it is like two sides of the same coin.
“If I’m Mary and Max told me that my messages makes him anxious, I would either talk about something that doesn’t make him anxious, or just stop“- in our future communication, if something I say makes you anxious, let me know and I will do my best to not talk about it anymore, for as long as you don’t want to talk about it.
“I understand the age gap, though you are the only person who meets both criteria, the intellectual and emotional sides“- I added this part here just because it makes me feel good.
“In my mind, we are compatible, in my feelings, we are compatible, in real life its not possible, but I just like to acknowledge it, we don’t have to do anything, just talk, until we ran out“- this is another part that makes you deserving of my trust. I am adding this: in real-life, a romantic/ sexual relationship is not possible, but an otherwise loving relationship is possible!
“If we are talking about a hypothetical scenario, and that we are both close.. I would give you as much alone time as you like“- a hypothetical thank-you to you!
“I would definitely like when you be angry (lol), laugh when my little sister gets angry (its only happens when I care about the person)“- a beautiful sentiment!
I now want to return to “Run to you” song performed by the late Whitney Houston, which I listened to (after coming up with the “I would run to you” in my post to you) in a youtube with scenes from the movie The Bodyguard. I don’t care for the movie, but I like the scene in the video where she, young and beautiful, is running in the sky, among the clouds, in slow motion, Running To Kevin Costner.
The lyrics: “I know that when you look at me- There’s so much that you just don’t see- But if you would only take the time- I know in my heart, you’d find- A girl who’s scared… Can’t you see the hurt in me?- I feel so all alone- I wanna run to you- I wanna run to you- Won’t you hold me in your arms- I want to run to you- But if I come to you- Tell me, will you stay or will you run away?- Each day, each day I play the role- someone always in control- But at night .. There’s nobody there, no one cares for me- What’s the sense of trying hard to find your dreams-Without someone to share it with-Tell me what does it mean?- I need you here, I need you here to wipe away my tears- To kiss away my fears..”-
– I talked before in these forums, particularly the Relationships Forum, about the connection between Romance and Childhood experience. It is common knowledge that childhood experiences with parents heavily influence adult experiences in regard to romantic relationships (ex., the Attachment Theory). The context of the song Run-to-You is romantic, and this is what I felt for you when I watched the video, and later as I sang the words to myself during my approx. 5.5 km daily walk. But something else occurred to me at one point on: I saw myself as the 5-year old girl that I was (the following italicized words are in the lyrics above): I was a girl who’s scared, running to my mother, wanting her to hold me in her arms and keep me safe from harm, wanting her to wipe away my tears and kiss away my fears, but she didn’t. Instead, she was angry at me, she didn’t hold me, she pushed me away and blame me for having started to run to her. So I stopped. (But the running inside me did not stop, the running, the unsettled motion inside harmed my brain and body: OCD, motor and vocal tics, etc.,). After that one incident, there were many others, and throughout, my mother, when she looked at me, there was so much she didn’t see, she didn’t take the time, she didn’t see the hurt in me. I felt so alone. At night I couldn’t sleep, afraid, but there was nobody there to care for me.
Fast forward, I wanted to run to you, Murtaza, and the emotion in this desire to run to you was intoxicating, euphoric, similar to what I felt when I wanted to run to her. The intoxicating euphoria was a very scared girl’s desire and imagining that soon, very soon (if she runs fast)- she will be safe from harm.
“What I understood is that you never lived your youth, and that now those desires and feelings is youth? That you are somehow trying to relive what you missed… Why do you call them youthful emotions? Why not just emotions?“- in that night, when I was five, she was very loud, crying, hysterical, breaking things, saying to my father: I am now going out to kill myself! She then left. I started to cry, terrified. My father took out a belt and hit me so that I will be quiet. I stopped crying. He then left and I was alone in the apartment. Next, I left, walking into the night alone, in the dark, under a bit of moonlight, looking for her body along the long, narrow path, looking to my right, looking to my left, then reaching the street… I saw her. The feeling of joy was intense, the desire to run to her and have her hold me in her arms was intense. So I started to run to her. She angrily stopped me. There was no holding me, no keeping me safe from harm.
After that, and more scenes like it, the running was all inside me in the form of motor and vocal tics and endless OCD compulsions and rituals- this internal running-nowhere, never arriving at a safe destination, made that pure joy and desire- an impossibility. When I say youthful emotions, I mean the emotions before those emotions were shackled/ caged/ dissociated by sickness.
Yesterday, the posting of those 2 posts was me running to you. In your reply- you cared for me, you held me in your arms and you kept me safe from harm.
Also yesterday, I emailed you for the first time and we communicated via email for the first time today. I messaged you there that I will submit a post here, and following the submission, you can reply to me here, or not- that I don’t care either way. I care to keep communicating with you via email because it will allow us to share personal information and discuss topics (such as the title of your thread) that I wouldn’t discuss on a public forum.
One more thing: there was a movie that was very special to me, The Never Ending Story- it is the movie that motivated me to travel alone to the U.S. through Europe, with no plan and no help. The movie starts with a boy reading from a book (the book is titled The-Never-Ending-Story). During the movie, the boy realizes that the book is more than a book, realizing that the book was reaching him irl. For me, at some point on, maybe from the beginning- you became more than a member on a public forum: you reached me irl.
anitaJuly 27, 2021 at 12:07 pm #383500DatsLyfeParticipant
So many replies here that I couldn’t really go through all of them. This is just my advice in response to your title. We’ve all experienced the lowest low, if not then we will experience it at some point. Now, suicide may feel like an easy way out but trust me, regardless of how bad the situation you might be in right now, your life is more precious than anything. You only have one life to live so make the best out of it.