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wouldn’t be a mercy if i just ended my life?

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  • #382855
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza:

    This post will be particularly spontaneous on my part. I am committing to not edit this post, so whatever word I type (unless misspelled)- I will not change. Also, I will respond to one part of your post and after that read another part attentively and respond to that part (like I did before).

    * I wrote to you that in my communication with you, I am somewhat flying, and you wrote: “I wonder why? I have some assumption to why, but I don’t like to assume stuff when I can simply ask the person“- the first thought I had when I read what you wrote here, quoted, was to tell you that you are brilliant, brilliant in capital letters. In my mind, you are brilliant! The next thought was/ is: this is why I shared my last post with you and with no one else, meaning I had you in mind, talking to you (I know this is a public forum). Anyone else, everyone else would have made assumptions, assumptions that would have terribly annoyed me and cause me to regret I ever shared this stuff. (Perhaps almost everyone else).

    Not being hindered by untrue/ partly true assumptions.. I am able to fly! When burdened by untrue assumptions, the bird is too heavy to rise up into the air and fly.

    * I wrote to you about my childhood fantasies of being famous, dancing, singing, acting in front of audiences of millions, and you wrote: “I think this desire comes from the unmet needs of this young female, to be seen and acknowledged, to be important in the eyes of people, to be loved“- true. This need was extremely unmet, so the fantasies were about this need being met to the extreme.

    you are kinda famous here, and you are liked by the members (I suppose?), but its only because you help them (another assumption), not because you are you, you want more then that(another assumption)– here your assumptions are not completely true, they are partly true and partly not. But I am not annoyed because you stated “another assumption”, and you asked: “I suppose?”. You presented an assumption for me to consider, accept or reject. (I must remember this when I communicate with members, to not be too confidant in regard to my assumptions).

    you are kinda famous here“- not true. When I turned on the computer this morning, you are the only member who posted. When members post, most I think search the internet for the topic that bothers them and they somehow find the website- nothing to do with me. There is no such thing as scores of people looking for my thoughts and advice. So, no I am not famous here or anywhere.

    you are liked by the members“- I doubt it. Sometimes, maybe. Not liked by others. When members express appreciation for me, I like that very much, sometimes. But I know that some members are polite and gracious and their compliments are a matter of style, not a matter of spontaneous sincerity.

    it’s only because you help them (another assumption), not because you are you, you want more then that” – About helping members, I am even less optimistic than I am about being liked by members. It is very, very.. very difficult to help members who suffer from serious mental/ emotional problems in any context, including in a professional setting. Of course it is .. extremely difficult to do in this setting- even if I was a professional, it would have been extremely difficult, or better say- improbable. Members who live in an abusive situation- after reading my posts, or while reading- they are still in those abusive situations. They need someone to walk into their home and help them out. Online advice is impotent. Otherwise, at times I help members feel better, but that is all: feel better for a little while.

    About wanting more- to be understood, comes to mind, to not be argued against, for someone to be on my side.. to not be alone anymore. This is what comes to mind.

    * “I feel like the word ‘compliment’ has been used to mean ‘saying nice things to people even if its not true’, but I’m guessing you know that I don’t do that (lol)“- I was aware of the topic when I wrote to you, and I even verified the definitions online: flattery is a word that suggests insincere compliments. The word compliment does not suggest insincerity. At the time I wrote to you yesterday, when I chose compliment and not flattery, I suspected that maybe I was receiving flattery from you, but I put this suspicion away as not-likely enough to consider at this time.

    * In my last post to you I wrote that you are brilliant, and you replied: “Thank you, just to be sure (lol) do you mean overall or there is something specific? Just to know what I did to get this compliment (lol)“- I mean extremely intelligent, in my experience, exceptionally intelligent. You are able to see through a person, to remove a person’s pretenses and arrogance and expose what’s inside. I noticed this not only in your communication with me, but with others.

    * In response to my sharing about being hit on the face, you wrote: “This actually makes me sad, a bit frustrated, because this happened to you, and that I can’t change it, that it’s outside of my control, to hear this abuse without having power to do anything. Sometimes, when I remember my loneliest time, I would imagine there is a person with me, and he comforts me, holds me, have you ever had such thoughts? What was the scenario I wonder? (again, skip if its too personal)“- thank you for offering that I skip it, this offer indicates that you are gentle, not only brilliant but also gentle (which is brilliant in itself).

    I can’t tell you how many times years ago, when I talked to people irl about my mother, their response was about her, about what made her hit me, that she was sick or whatnot. Their response was not about me. Those responses burdened me further. You didn’t respond that way. I didn’t read yet the rest of  your reply, and I so hope you will not shift your attention from me to ..my mother.

    Thank you for your attention to me in that scenario and your empathy. As to your question: when I was alone with her, or better say, when she was around, I don’t think that I was able to imagine there being another person with me- she wouldn’t have allowed it, not in real life and not in my imagination. She was too loud, too intrusive, too violent. When she was not there, when I was alone, it was then that I imagined someone with me: I remember that as a teenager I imagined love stories where I was together with a male fantasy figure. Unfortunately, because of her violence, physical touch is often associated with something bad, it alarms me, makes me angry. But there were times when nothing felt better than a hug, to be held.

    * “I would imagine that even thinking of this is a bit taboo, that your mother, the best mother in the world, that has no husband, and yet works for her only child, provides for her, so whenever you thought she is the problem, you would feel guilty of that thought, your logic and mind made you feel guilty and ashamed, “how dare you even think of that?” The thing is, that mothers are highly valued in society, doesn’t matter if they are bad“- I agree with every word, couldn’t have said it any better. Your reply is going so well so far, I still dread just a bit that “mothers are highly valued in society, doesn’t matter if they are bad”- that this attitude will not show up in the rest of your post. This societal attitude.. reminds me when she screamed and hit me at night, I couldn’t understand why the neighbors were so quiet, none interrupted what was happening, ever. The attitude was that if it’s her child, she is allowed to do as she pleases.

    This is a very long post, I am processing it bit by bit, no editing, no erasing. I hope you are okay with this.

    * I wrote to you about the conflict/ mental torture/ internal fight within me, and you wrote: “I would guess that at first and for a long time, she would win, but when you started to not care about her, to not value her that much, the conflict get less and less“- for the longest time I didn’t care, or so I thought, I was extremely angry at her, I hated her. I think that it helped me survive, but I was very troubled all along, and the conflict remained to this very day, it is only recently that it is less, and in this very post, I am trying to lessen it even more. It is this very conflict that hinders me more than anything else. A voice within me, a societal/ normie voice says: she is your mother, she was a good mother, you are making things up, you are lying, you.. you.. you are the problem, a bad girl, disloyal to her mother.

    * I wrote to you that she repeatedly threatened to kill herself, and you replied: “I would imagine that you loved her even if she was bad to you, and that you blamed yourself for that, she blamed you even“- she blamed me at length, built arguments against me, pointing to what I said/ didn’t say, do/ didn’t do in the previous month, let’s say, and how those things were part of an evil plan I had all along, for the whole month, to bring her to a boiling point.. (how crazy it is to think that a child was interested in bringing her mother to a boiling, violent point, yet that was her detailed accusation).I knew at the time that her detailed accusations were not true.. but it was the emotional experience, not the (nonsensical) intellectual experience that was so terrible- to see, hear, feel ALL THAT ANGER directed at me. Her anger was convincing, not her explanations.

    I would imagine that you loved her“- she murdered my love for her, and then, my love for her resurrected as the “living dead” from that movie- is my best image of my love for her: a love-corpse moving around clumsily, making strange grunting sounds.

    * I wrote to you that she said it was something I said, etc. You replied: “How did you feel back then? What was your response? I would imagine you being afraid of talking, you being afraid of just existing next to her, that even if you don’t talk, she will blame you for it“- I felt fear, dizzy, weak, cognitively disorganized (wording I didn’t have then), angry, tired, scared. She was big and angry back then, she had big, strong hands, I was short and thin, she was loud, she said: I’ll kill you, I’ll break you into many small pieces (translated)- I didn’t want that pain, of course.. I wanted to hit her back, I don’t remember.. scared and angry, I would say.

    * “She is very narcissistic I see, she not only controlled your action, she even wanted to control your thinking“- thank you for the anger I perceive in this sentence, anger at her.

    * Next thing you wrote: “I am very sorry anita. I feel both hate and anger towards the person who did this to you, and empathy and affection for you“- I was right! You did feel anger right above. Thank you. It just occurred to me as I put that “.” after the “Thank you”- that I .. (I am searching my memory), I don’t think any person in my life, ever, expressed anger at my mother except for you, particularly in the context of her interactions with me.

    I was always alone with my anger toward her.

    Even the great therapist I had 2011-2013, I don’t remember anger in him, anger at my mother for how she treated me. All I got in my life was people feeling empathy for her.. no empathy for me, or at the most, I got empathy for me and for her. No one took my side against her.

    And at this point (I am still typing spontaneously, no editing other than grammar in your quotes and spelling in my typing)- I really hope that there is no empathy for her in the remaining of your post, which I didn’t read yet… I just did, impatient, not wanting to take more time- good, yes!!! No empathy for her- THANK YOU!

    Now, I will re-read my post to you, not edit anything, and then write my concluding thoughts for now…

    I am back (still not editing)- I wrote earlier that her anger at me was convincing, ANGER in capital letters… All along, to this very point in my life, none of the irl people, aunts, uncles, cousins, sister.. none of my family members expressed anger at her. As I just wrote “my family members”, I wanted to correct it to “her family members”- because they were on her side, never against her, or better say: some were angry at her, there were fights between them, but NONE, EVER was angry at her for how she treated me. Neighbors and acquaintances are included. When I finally complained to people who didn’t know her about how she treated me- they too did not express any anger at her. Fast forward all the way to my therapy ten years ago- he also did not express anger at her for the way she treated me.

    And so, I was uninterruptedly alone feeling anger at her. To add to it: people criticized me for being angry at her. The normie attitude is: thy shall  not be angry at your mother, and if you are angry- forgive, let it go, move on.. now!

    I needed, looking back, someone to come in that small apartment were I lived, and get angry at her, ANGRY. The absence of anger validated the thought that she did nothing wrong. It made me doubt that anything wrong was done.. for if it was Wrong, how can it be that no one is Angry?..

    This is what you did for me in your recent post: you did something that I don’t remember to have ever been done before- you took my side against her, getting angry at her.

    You wrote some time ago that my reply was satisfactory for you. Your reply is very satisfactory to me. Thank you, a lot. I hope all this will be absorbed in me, it takes time. This has been a long post. Feel free to not respond to everything I wrote, to choose this or that and reply to those things, if you choose to reply further (I never take a reply for granted).

    anita

    #382873
    Murtaza
    Participant

    Dear antia, as i read your post, especially at the end “no one felt angry at her” “you the only one who did” “everyone criticize me for that anger”, i teared up, it was a long time since i felt this way.

     

    everyone else would have made assumptions, assumptions that would have terribly annoyed me and cause me to regret I ever shared this stuff

    I understand anita, everytime i tell people a little about my life, they immediately assume the rest of it, not only that but they are sure that this assumption is true, in my post to you, i never made an assumption that im sure its true unless you confirm it. (I admit i made some bald assumption in the past in our conversation, and for that im sorry)

     

    I said that “you are kinda famous, liked in here” you wrote that it is not true, i believe i said this because the first time i saw what you do here, i liked you very much, because you dedicate time and effort for every member, your detailed replay showed how you much care about everyone, and that i thought everyone sees you that way, and that everyone (like me) waits for your next replay, i never saw your replay to people though, but i made an assumption without any proofs.

     

    They need someone to walk into their home and help them out. Online advice is impotent

    Yes, true.

     

    this offer indicates that you are gentle

    Sometimes i wish that i can practice this gentleness, though i can only do little through words

     

    I don’t think that I was able to imagine there being another person with me- she wouldn’t have allowed it, not in real life and not in my imagination

    What i understand from this is that she controlled your mind/imagination when you was around her, she was like the devil (in islam devil lives in everyone of us and he whispers us to do bad things) only she was worse, i can’t imagine you living like that everyday.

     

    You replied to my “mothers are highly valued, doesn’t matter if they are bad” “hope that this attitude will not show up in the rest of your post. This societal attitude”

     

    To answer: i was criticizing valuing mothers like that, because it gives them so much power, what i said “mothers are highly valued” was true (when i read the rest of your post), everyone who you told about your mother, either empathize with her, or give her excuses, no one was mad at her, no one hated her, she did this to you, because society allows this, if there was a law that stops her from being her, you wouldn’t have suffer that much, there is a reason why we have laws, to stop some people from being themselves.

     

    A voice within me, a societal/ normie voice says: she is your mother, she was a good mother, you are making things up, you are lying, you.. you.. you are the problem, a bad girl, disloyal to her mother.

    I understand, its now two voices against this, yours and mine.

     

    she murdered my love for her, and then, my love for her resurrected as the “living dead” from that movie- is my best image of my love for her: a love-corpse moving around clumsily, making strange grunting sounds

    So much anger in this sentence, im impressed how well you said this.

     

    She was big and angry back then, she had big, strong hands, I was short and thin, she was loud, she said: I’ll kill you, I’ll break you into many small pieces

    I would imagine that you wanted so much, so badly, to someone to release you from her, to interver and stops her, but no one did, because its “YoUr MoThEr”

     

    I don’t think any person in my life, ever, expressed anger at my mother except for you, particularly in the context of her interactions with me.

    I was always alone with my anger toward her.

    you not only were absued but no one even acknowledge that little thing, that simple and small thing, and you wished for so long that someone would just be angry at her, just be angry, its makes me so sad.

     

    No one took my side against her.

    When i first heard “she slapped me” i immediately hated her, and was mad at her, and i would think this is the least she did, but im bit surprised (i don’t expect a lot from normies) that no one hated her, hated what she did, was angry at her, it feels like the normal response to any sane person, that this gental and nice person right here were treated like a slave, (excuse my example)

     

    but NONE, EVER was angry at her for how she treated me

    No one felt your pain, no one validate your feelings about her, and you thought that you must be wrong, the evidence is everyone tells you are wrong, the whole world tells you to respect your mother, even if she is bad, to forgive her, how could that voice, that little tiny voice inside you beat the whole world?

     

    You wanted people to be angry at her for what she did to you, not other reasons, because then you would know that they know you are suffering, you just wanted that, them to know, what a simple thing to ask.

     

    To add to it: people criticized me for being angry at her

    Ofcourse they did, they have good mothers/ not aware of thier bad mothers because society brainwashed thier values and beliefs to not see the ugly truth.

     

    I needed, looking back, someone to come in that small apartment were I lived, and get angry at her, ANGRY

    This reminds me of something (although this post is mainly about you, though if don’t mention this i don’t think i will remember again in the future), i remember that when my father was alive, he used to bother us a lot, screams and stuff, one time he was screaming at my little sister, and i was furious, i told him “how dare you even talk to her like that? Are you even her father? What did you do to her to be her father?” He didn’t replay, from what i remember it was so satisfying.

     

    Your reply is very satisfactory to me. Thank you, a lot

    You are more then welcome, and thank you for trusting me.

     

    Feel free to not respond to everything I wrote, to choose this or that and reply to those things,

    I didn’t comment on everything (because i felt adding a comment to some of your replay would be not nice, and unneccessary) though you should know i understand most of it, and the part i didn’t i either assumed stuff (even when i don’t say “i suppose?” Anything about you and your personal life is an assumption by me, and that you are the only one who confirm it/say the truth) or just asked.

     

    #382917
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza:

    I noticed that you posted last night, more than 12 hours ago, but I didn’t want to read what you wrote, not until this morning, after I answered a couple of other members- because my communication with you at this point is different from what I ever had in the over six years of daily posting here. It is more personal to me than ever before, gets me involved in ways I didn’t want to get involved before. I never trusted anyone here to help me with my most personal topics. I never posted to be helped, not wanting what (I gladly refer to, in this context) normie-responses that advocate that I forgive my mother, that she did her best.. and all along, denying the reality of what happened.

    Part of me feared yesterday that you will turn against me, that you will.. drop this gentle, supportive empathetic “mask” and reveal the aggressive, cruel monster inside. This fear carried on from last night to this morning as I postponed reading your recent post. I didn’t read it yet. What I wrote so far, and what I will continue to type is not edited, just like yesterday. I will read part of your recent post, respond to it and keep going.

    Before I begin, one more thing: I didn’t rush to read and respond also, because I wanted to give it time to be absorbed, what already happened here, recently on your thread, what we talked about most recently.. what seems to be Murtaza helping me. Trusting you, trusting you enough to place you in the position to possibly hurt me, to possibly betray my trust in you. And now, to your post:

    As I read your post, especially at the end ‘no one felt angry at her’ ‘you the only one who did’ ‘everyone criticize me for that anger’, I teared up, it was a long time since I felt this way“- you got it, the most important element in my previous post to you. You are amazing.

    I understand anita, every time I tell people a little about my life, they immediately assume the rest of it, not only that, but they are sure that this assumption is true, in my post to you, I never made an assumption that I’m sure it’s true unless you confirm it. (I admit I made some bold assumption in the past in our conversation, and for that I’m sorry)“- thank you. I too made bold, incorrect assumptions about you (and about other members). I am sorry for that too.

    The first time I saw what you do here, I liked you very much, because you dedicate time and effort for every member, your detailed replies showed how you much care about everyone, and that I thought everyone sees you that way, and that everyone (like me) waits for your next reply“- I am smiling right now for the first time this morning, you-are-a-sweetheart was my first thought as I read this part.

    Sometimes I wish that I can practice this gentleness, though I can only do little through words“- I can feel your gentleness, it makes me feel good right now. I didn’t sleep well last night and didn’t feel good until now.

    I can imagine how very fortunate (and I mean it, I am not just saying this to be nice) a young woman would have been to experience your gentleness irl, right there, were you are, in a different context than your younger sister does.

    What I understand from this is that she controlled your mind/imagination when you were around her, she was like the devil (in Islam devil lives in everyone of us and he whispers us to do bad things) only she was worse, I can’t imagine you living like that everyday“- a very non-normie response, thank you!!!

    I was criticizing valuing mothers like that, because it gives them so much power… Everyone who you told about your mother, either empathized with her, or gave her excuses, no one was mad at her, no one hated her, she did this to you, because society allows this. If there was a law that stops her from being her, you wouldn’t have suffer that much, there is a reason why we have laws, to stop some people from being themselves“- perfectly said.

    I wrote to you about the two voices in my head, one saying that she was a good mother etc., and you replied: “I understand, its now two voices against this, yours and mine“- I want to take in this line, this idea, this sentiment into me, breathe it in. When that other voice speaks, maybe I can say to it: Murtaza and I are against you, case closed, and silence can follow.. (?)

    I wrote to you: “she murdered my love for her, and then, my love for her resurrected as the ‘living dead’ from that movie.. a love-corpse moving around clumsily, making strange grunting sounds”, and you wrote: “So much anger in this sentence, I’m impressed how well you said this“- I didn’t notice it was anger until you pointed it out.

    * At this point I am amazed by how brilliant you are, this is all mind boggling to me, I never, NEVER expected to be helped in this way, it is as if an angel has descended on me with all his wisdom, an out of this world wisdom and ability to perceive, to understand so perfectly.

    I would imagine that you wanted so much, so badly, to someone to release you from her, to intervene and stop her, but no one did, because its ‘YoUr MoThEr’“– she was god, but a bad god, like you said, a devil. It alarmed me just now to say “devil”, but Murtaza said so, two voices against one!

    You not only were abused but no one even acknowledge that little thing, that simple and small thing, and you wished for so long that someone would just be angry at her, just be angry, its makes me so sad“- I didn’t understand what was missing (one other person to get angry at her) until you.

    When I first heard ‘she slapped me’ I immediately hated her, and was mad at her, and I would think this is the least she did, but I’m bit surprised (I don’t expect a lot from normies) that no one hated her, hated what she did, was angry at her, it feels like the normal response to any sane person, that this gentle and nice person right here were treated like a slave”

    – thank you. She had that extreme “good” persona for everyone else, extremely kind and generous and full of flattery. Although I did see her fight on once occasion with one of my elementary school teachers. I don’t remember much other than her screaming on the school grounds. I understand that she hit that teacher. ALL the school students were watching the scene that seemed to go on forever. I was very embarrassed. I don’t remember how I felt going “home” with the crazy woman.

    * I just felt guilty saying “the crazy woman”. Do you want to give me your Voice on this (maybe I can have two-against one on this one)? Maybe this will help for background: she heard that that female teacher, a music teacher, referred to me as (I forgot.. I remember, she called me “auntie”) something somewhat disrespectful, so her response was to ascend to the school grounds getting that teacher outside the classroom and going about screaming/ hitting her or whatnot while all the children were watching. (No police was called.. I don’t think, quite sure, I don’t remember police existing where I lived).

    No one felt your pain, no one validate your feelings about her, and you thought that you must be wrong, the evidence is everyone tells you are wrong, the whole world tells you to respect your mother, even if she is bad, to forgive her, how could that voice, that little tiny voice inside you beat the whole world? You wanted people to be angry at her for what she did to you, not other reasons, because then you would know that they know you are suffering, you just wanted that, them to know, what a simple thing to ask“- interesting that the only quality psychotherapist I ever had didn’t say what you said here. What do you know.. he too was too much of a normie. I see it now. He didn’t help me as much as he could have if he was you.

    Of course they did, they have good mothers“- as I read this, I thought, no they/ many probably have bad mothers but they are not aware or fully aware of it, and then I read the continuation of the above: “/ not aware of their bad mothers because society brainwashed their values and beliefs to not see the ugly truth“- yes, yes, yes!!!

    This reminds me of something (although this post is mainly about you, though if don’t mention this I don’t think I will remember again in the future), I remember that when my father was alive, he used to bother us a lot, screams and stuff, one time he was screaming at my little sister, and I was furious, I told him ‘how dare you even talk to her like that? Are you even her father? What did you do to her to be her father?’ He didn’t replay, from what I remember it was so satisfying“-

    – Of course you can share about you, bring the post back to you. I will probably be better at responding to what you share about yourself and your life now, than I was before. I see courage.. I must stop, I am afraid to misunderstand the situation you described. I don’t want to repay your understanding of me with a misunderstanding of you!

    Was it courage?

    I wrote to you: “Your reply is very satisfactory to me. Thank you, a lot”, and you replied: “You are more then welcome, and thank you for trusting me“- this is AMAZING because I started this post to you with the issue of trust, and that was before I read your post.

    “I didn’t comment on everything (because I felt adding a comment to some of your replay would be not nice, and unnecessary) though you should know I understand most of it, and the part I didn’t, I either assumed stuff…”- I am fine with you commenting on everything and am grateful for what you did comment on, and you commented on a lot. I also don’t expect perfection from you although recently all I got from you was just that, Perfection.

    I am thankful to you, and humbled.. and wiser because of you. Again, you are amazing, brilliant and so very special to me.

    anita

     

    #382967
    Murtaza
    Participant

    Dear anita, as i read your post, after i just wake up, i smile, even laugh at times.

     

    Part of me feared yesterday that you will turn against me, that you will.. drop this gentle, supportive empathetic “mask”

    I understand where this is coming from, though you should know, that since you showed me something i haven’t see in any online interaction, i always wanted to give back to you what you gave me, when i talk about your life, i won’t show any of the argumentative Murtaza, just gental and kind and understanding Murtaza.

     

    trusting you enough to place you in the position to possibly hurt me, to possibly betray my trust in you

    I feel afraid that i might, if i do without knowing, without meaning to, could you please tell me? To not end this conversation as soon as i do that? To just point it out so we can discuss it/ tell you my pov?

     

    you-are-a-sweetheart was my first thought as I read this part.

    Thank you anita, this makes me feel warm.

     

    I can imagine how very fortunate (and I mean it, I am not just saying this to be nice) a young woman would have been to experience your gentleness irl, right there, were you are

    Thank you, i too think the same about you, that how fortunate people will feel when they get to know you/ experience your gentleness, i still remember what you said to me back in the first time we talked, i was very  lucky to talk to such person, still i am.

     

    I didn’t notice it was anger until you pointed it out.

    I felt it was anger, when i imagined you writing it, i felt you you were bit angry and wrote this very fast, it was cute imagine you like that.

     

     I never, NEVER expected to be helped in this way

    Im very glad, although im not doing anything really, im just being myself, i think we just have a somekind of rythm, the result of us, the person right here, is compatible, so this is why we help each other easily, it comes natural, although i feel in your part, you did more to understand and accept me, thank you for that.

     

    it is as if an angel has descended on me with all his wisdom,

    Its funny you wrote that same exact example i gave you in our past post, i too felt like you are an angel, still do

     

    she was god, but a bad god

    I think this is a very well description of her, evil god.

     

    I just felt guilty saying “the crazy woman”. Do you want to give me your Voice on this

    I like that you asked, that you shared this personal part of you.

     

    I think that its fair to call her that, any sane person wouldn’t hit or do what she did to her child, i don’t doubt for one moment that she wasn’t crazy, though even if she wasn’t crazy, you shouldn’t feel guilty (its ok to feel guilty though, because you were programmed to feel this way) because what she did to you, i think that you are allowed to say anything about her

     

    From what i see is (a person did a very bad thing to another person for a long period of time, made him live life on the edge for the rest of his life, now this person is very angry at what has been done to him, a normal reaction, now the person feel guilty by this normal reaction, that he even has it in the first place) in this case (i hope it is right?), don’t you think that the person should allow his normal reaction to be free of gulit or shame (?)

     

    That his gulit coming from an unvalid value, not the truth

     

    psychotherapist I ever had didn’t say what you said here. What do you know.. he too was too much of a normie.

    I think that his values and beliefs that was handed to him was in the way, he didn’t feel sorry or angry for you because he was told that mothers are highly valued, i think (and this is my humble observation) that this value made him block the feeling, block the evil that has been done to you, there might be other reasons ofcourse (i only know few, so im only saying this from your little words about this subject), i don’t blame norimes for being this way, i understand, its only when you doubt everything, that you begin to see things more clearly, without any values and beliefs.

     

    I must stop, I am afraid to misunderstand the situation you described. I don’t want to repay your understanding of me with a misunderstanding of you

    I admit that i too feel afraid that i might not say the perfect things for you, that i might say something you don’t wanna hear, but i say it anyway, and i be as nice as possible, don’t worry anita, anything you say is acceptable, i don’t want you to be afraid to write, also just know, you don’t owe me anything, you don’t have to repay, because you already did helped me the same way im helping you, we are equal, what a very wonderful thing to feel/write

     

    Was it courage?

    I think yes, i remember a few moments of my life, where i did some things for the people i loved, some things that was so hard for me to do, i told you this, because i was implying, that i wish i did this for you too, to stop the injustice that happened to you

     

    To know that my post, my humble replay, made you feel good, and that you think im very special and brilliant, makes me feel good, because its coming from a person i highly value his opinion, that he doesn’t just say things randomly.

     

    The other day i watched mary and max for the 3rd time, it would mean a lot to me if you see it, i rewatched it because i wanted to see how similar it is to our conversations.

     

    Would you mind telling me anything (safe) about your present? I feel like i know nothing about you, maybe your day? Just to imagine where this young female, ended up.

     

    Hope you haveing a good day.

    #382979
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza:

    I was way less afraid today to read your most recent post. Today, I kept it for last as an expected pleasure. I read just a bit of your post before typing this sentence, and now- part by part, no editing:

    As I read your post, after I just woke up, I smile, even laugh at times“- you woke up around 7 am this Friday. I wonder if you had breakfast before you turned on your computer. (No need to answer, it is just a wondering)

    Since you showed me something I haven’t see in any online interaction, I always wanted to give back to you what you gave me, when I talk about your life, I won’t show any of the argumentative Murtaza, just gentle and kind and understanding Murtaza“- thank you. I was thinking about it yesterday, how strange it is to receive the highest quality help without paying for it, just like that, for free.. I said to myself: better not take too much of it, better not work you to exhaustion!

    And what you wrote, about being the “gentle and kind and understanding Murtaza” vs. the “argumentative Murtaza” is just too precious, too sweet.

    Regarding my quote of being possibly hurt/ betrayed, you wrote: “I feel afraid that I might, if I do without knowing, without meaning to, could you please tell me? To not end this conversation as soon as I do that? To just point it out so we can discuss it/ tell you my pov?”-

    – how interesting: right after I read “I feel afraid hat I might.. without meaning to“, and before I read the rest, I thought to myself a parallel thought: I am afraid that I might get angry at Murtaza again, that I .. well, like before. I am not inclined that way, not feeling anger at you at all, but it scared me for a moment.. what if..? Could I.. is it possible?

    I will definitely let you know, I will remember to let you know of any feeling of hurt or betrayal on my part. It will not be difficult because I do not edit (other than spelling of my writing). I guess this is the trust in you, that I type without thinking much, or I should say, without re-thinking, just typing away. So, whatever comes to mind and heart is typed before I can take it away, or hide it.

    I wrote to you that you are a sweetheart, that the thought occurred to me that you are, and you replied: “Thank you anita, this makes me feel warm“- well then, again I say: you are a sweetheart, Murtaza, and I smile as I am typing this.

    I too think the same about you, that how fortunate people will feel when they get to know you/ experience your gentleness“- I hope some people at the taproom think this way, I would like to think that they do, or that some do.

    I felt it was anger, when i imagined you writing it, I felt you you were bit angry and wrote this very fast, it was cute imagine you like that“- you are exceptionally perceptive and overall brilliant.

    I’m very glad, although I’m not doing anything really, I’m just being myself, I think we just have a some kind of rhythm, the result of us, the person right here, is compatible, so this is why we help each other easily, it comes natural, although I feel in your part, you did more to understand and accept me, thank you for that” –

    – I like reading that you and I are compatible, sharing some kind of rhythm. You wrote here that you, or you suggested here that you are not working hard to help me, and that I worked hard before, trying to understand you. I think that the reason I worked harder was because I was not as perceptive or as brilliant as you are. Still not, but getting there, getting to be more perceptive.

    I too felt like you are an angel, still do“- it was only after I wrote to you yesterday that you are like an angel, that during my walk, I remembered that you said the same about me, earlier.

    I think this is a very well description of her, evil god“- it feels good to read this. Not guilty.

    you shouldn’t feel guilty (its ok to feel guilty though, because you were programmed to feel this way) because what she did to you, I think that you are allowed to say anything about her“- okay, I will say it then: for me, in my life, she was an evil god.

    I want to continue my post to you later. I want to stop here because I am not feeling guilty for what I just wrote. I want to be in peace with this absence of guilt for a while. I will probably be back after my walk.. later. Thank you so much, Murtaza!

    anita

    #382983
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza:

    I didn’t yet feel guilty for seeing her as an “evil god”. Not only that.. something strange happened, it is as if I saw evil for the first time, as I held her image in my mind, looking at me with those evil eyes, it is as if I met with evil for the first time, holding her image.. as if I didn’t know that evil really exists till now.

    I will now continue to read your post and respond:

    I like that you asked, that you shared this personal part of you“- makes  me smile. Again, I am amazed by you, I keep getting amazed.. ! I mean, you say it like a personal part of me is valuable, like I am  valuable.

    A person did a very bad thing to another person for a long period of time, made him live life on the edge for the rest of his life. Now this person is very angry at what has been done to him, a normal reaction. Now the person feels guilty for this normal reaction.. I hope it is right?“- yes.

    Don’t you think that the person should allow his normal reaction to be free of guilt or shame (?)” – yes. “That his guilt is coming from an un-valid value, not the truth“.

    I think that his values and beliefs that was handed to him was in the way, he didn’t feel sorry or angry for you because he was told that mothers are highly valued, I think (and this is my humble observation) that this value made him block the feeling, block the evil that has been done to you“- sounds right.

    I admit that I too feel afraid that I might not say the perfect things for you, that I might say something you don’t want to hear, but I’ll say it anyway, and I’ll be as nice as possible, don’t worry anita, anything you say is acceptable. I don’t want you to be afraid to write. Also just know, you don’t owe me anything, you don’t have to repay, because you already helped me the same way I’m helping you, we are equal, what a very wonderful thing to feel/write“- yes, it is. No one has ever said this to me (I just felt guilty, hearing other people saying: didn’t I say this to you, didn’t I say that to you.. and I say to the voices: yes, of course there were/ are people  kind to me, it’s just that this here is special, same rhythm perhaps, as you said, a meeting of the minds, I say)

    I asked  to you about your story: “Was it courage?” You answered: “I think yes, I remember a few moments of my life, where I did some things for the people I loved, some things that were so hard for me to do. I told you this, because I was implying, that I wish I did this for you too, to stop the injustice that happened to you“- I imagine young boy Murtaza, as she screamed at me, there is Murtaza “furious (telling her): ‘how dare you even talk to her like that? Are you even her (mother)? What did you do to her to be her (her mother)?’ (She) didn’t reply”, and “from what (anita) remembers it was so satisfying”.

    To know that my post, my humble reply, made you feel good, and that you think I’m very special and brilliant, makes me feel good, because it’s coming from a person I highly value his opinion, that he doesn’t just say things randomly“- smiling again, feeling love for you, appreciation and value.

    The other day I watched Mary and Max for the 3rd time, it would mean a lot to me if you see it, I re-watched it because I wanted to see how similar it is to our conversations“- I will watch it tomorrow, and will let you know right after (what exactly do I google to watch the particular episode you are referring to?)

    Would you mind telling me anything (safe) about your present? I feel like I know nothing about you, maybe your day? Just to imagine where this young female, ended up“- I was thinking earlier of doing that, sharing more about me now, I was rehearsing it in my mind. It is a bit scary, to share beyond what I already shared in these forums. I thought to myself maybe  I should send you an email, to the address you provided. Then I thought .. tomorrow, I will share more tomorrow. I hope you are sleeping restfully right now.

    anita

     

    #382992
    Murtaza
    Participant

    you woke up around 7 am this Friday. I wonder if you had breakfast before you turned on your computer. (No need to answer, it is just a wondering)

    It was around 5 or 6, i replay to you using phone, because its more comfortable then to do it on the computer, besides its hotter in my room (and i learned that the wether of the room could change my response, the way i sit also) so i lay down while i write to you, i didn’t had breakfast the other day (which was a mistake because answering you take about 1 hour or so), i usually wake up doing things for half an hour before i eat, sometimes workout sometimes shopping, sometimes just lay and watch tv. Sometimes i take more then half an hour.

     

    how strange it is to receive the highest quality help without paying for it, just like that, for free

    You did pay for it, from the beginning of our conversation, even at (i can’t cry anymore), i don’t usually use the word “deserve” but you deserve that help, even more, from all members in here, not just me, if we live in a fair world, you very much deserve that.

     

    I said to myself: better not take too much of it, better not work you to exhaustion!

    You can take as much as you want.

     

    and before I read the rest, I thought to myself a parallel thought: I am afraid that I might get angry at Murtaza again

    I don’t mind it, just know that i perfer that you be angry at me and Express it then to leave and not say anything, i won’t stop talking unless you say so

     

    it is as if I saw evil for the first time, as I held her image in my mind, looking at me with those evil eyes, it is as if I met with evil for the first time, holding her image.. as if I didn’t know that evil really exists till now.

    Do you think that, because i said so, that she is evil, you started to believe that about her? Or is it because something else? Because maybe the guilt stopped you from thinking about this and you never tried to think of her like this?

     

    you say it like a personal part of me is valuable

    It is.

     

    like I am  valuable

    You are.

     

    and I say to the voices: yes, of course there were/ are people  kind to me, it’s just that this here is special

    now i have some assumption, but i just wanna make sure (if its gets too boring i understand), what did i gave you that was special? That people couldn’t give? Understanding? Validation? A combination of both and other things?

     

    I imagine young boy Murtaza, as she screamed at me, there is Murtaza “furious (telling her): ‘how dare you even talk to her like that? Are you even her (mother)? What did you do to her to be her (her mother)?’ (She) didn’t reply”, and “from what (anita) remembers it was so satisfying”.

    When i talk about this day with my sister, i tell her (this is my favorite episode) she laughs. It was something i remember and be proud.

     

    what exactly do I google to watch the particular episode you are referring to?

    Its mary and max 2009, a movie, not tv show, i don’t know how you could watch it though, there is free streaming sites on the web, if you still want to and don’t know where to watch it from, i can give you a link? Maybe in emails? (I think that this site doesn’t accept links?)

     

    It is a bit scary, to share beyond what I already shared in these forums

    Its completely fine if you don’t, and my question was more about to show care for you then to know, you can choose what to tell me (whitout me asking and answering them), just say so in the next post and i will be happy to replay to them, maybe discuss them (i like that we are discussing anita, and would love to do more, if you want to) though if you think its enough, then its enough.

     

     I hope you are sleeping restfully right now

    I did, i hope you have a good day.

     

    #383006
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza:

    When you replied to me yesterday, you were lying down, not in your room, and using your phone. It usually takes you an hour or so to reply to me. I never use my phone to type/ text. I used to be able to text but it was such a long time ago that I don’t know how to access texting. I hardly ever talk on the phone and sometimes I forget how to answer it and miss a rare call. When I reply to  you, I sit in front of the computer, usually in my robe (it is chilly in the mornings in July, unless there is a heat wave like the one earlier in the month), in front of me there is a double glass door through which I can see the many, many green trees that surrounds the house (I live on a mountain, in a forest, basically), and I can see the now very clouded sky, and another mountain on the other side of a valley.

    You deserve that help, even more, from all members in here, not just me, if we live in a fair world, you very much deserve that“- thank you, and I agree that we are not living in a fair world, and therefore, deserving has little to do with anything.

    You can take as much as you want“- of your time, you meant- thank you.

    I prefer that you be angry at me and Express it than to leave and not say anything”– I am committing this to my memory, making sure I remember this.

    I won’t stop talking unless you say so“- I don’t want to ever stop talking to you. On the other hand, I know that I did- twice, so I don’t think that I deserve (here is that word again) much credit in this regard.

    Do you think that, because I said so, that she is evil, you started to believe that about her? Or is it because something else? Because maybe the guilt stopped you from thinking about this and you never tried to think of her like this?”- there is a paper on the table where I am sitting, to the right of the computer. I wrote a note on it two days ago, I think it was. I will quote it for you here: “Murtaza says so. He’s the One other person on my side= No one other than him expressed anger at her. He is indeed the Non-Normie”- a word by word quote.

    I always needed (now I know) one other person to get angry at her, so that I am not alone angry at her for the ways she mistreated me. I needed someone by my side, and you are The One.

    I wrote: “like a personal part of my is valuable”, and you wrote: “It is“. I wrote: “like I am  valuable”, and you wrote: “You are“. I very much like it the way you sometimes use only a few words that carry a lot  of weight. Let me repeat the thought: I am valuable, what’s inside my mind is valuable, my thoughts are valued.

    “what did I gave you that was special? That people couldn’t give? Understanding? Validation? A combination of both and other things?”- the answers are right above: you were The One who got angry at her for the ways she mistreated me, who expressed such anger. And you expressed that you value me.. and I trust you to mean it (I just felt a tinge of disbelief). And I value you, so your valuing me is.. valuable to me.

    When I talk about this day with my sister, I tell her (this is my favorite episode) she laughs. It was something I remember and be proud“- and she is proud of you, isn’t she. She values you. I am pretty sure about this assumption, that’s why I am not asking for confirmation.

    It’s Mary and Max 2009, a movie, not tv show, i don’t know how you could watch it though, there is free streaming sites on the web, if you still want to and don’t know where to watch it from, I can give you a link? Maybe in emails? (I think that this site doesn’t accept links?)“- I am very low tech, but is it possible to spell out the link with spaces instead of copying and inserting it here? That’s what I do to not trigger the feature that rejects links, for example, something like mary and max/ movie. com (instead of maryandmaxmovie.com). Regarding emails, like my phone, I hardly ever use it. 99% or more of my online communication with people is right here, on this website.

    You can choose what to tell me… just say so in the next post and i will be happy to reply to them, maybe discuss them (I like that we are discussing anita, and would love to do more, if you want to) though if you think its enough, then its enough“- definitely more. I already thought of what I want to ask you about, hoping it will help me irl. But later. As you can see, I opened this post with sharing about my current personal life, although I shared that before in these forums. I also shared with you earlier, and repeatedly about the taproom (I shared about it with other members as well). I still wish you were there. Sometimes I think about you living here, how you would like a much cooler area (although global warming is here loud and clear!)

    I’ll post later, hours from now, I think, after I try and watch the show you recommended that I watch. Thank you, Murtaza.

    *By the way, I am still not editing at all (other than spelling)- I am not going to mention this in every post, but this is my rule now in regard to posting to you.

    * Later: I pressed Edit to italicize one of your quotes that I forgot to italicize, correct some misspellings, and get rid of a line that I copied and pasted from your post and forgot to delete.

    anita

    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by anita.
    #383026
    Murtaza
    Participant

    Dear anita

     

    of your time, you meant- thank you.

    Not just my time, but the help you wanted.

     

    I don’t want to ever stop talking to you. On the other hand, I know that I did- twice

    You did, with a good reason, and i understood why.

     

    “Murtaza says so. He’s the One other person on my side= No one other than him expressed anger at her. He is indeed the Non-Normie”

    I didn’t thought that this small thing i gave mean so much to you.

     

    so that I am not alone angry at her for the ways she mistreated me. I needed someone by my side, and you are The One.

    I thought about that, and i said to myself “that’s it?” It seems so small to ask for, i just felt that one of the reasons might be is because you are alone(?).

     

    and I trust you to mean it

    I do, i was very angry when you first told me, it always botherd me when i see injustice happening, when i hear about it, makes me both frustrated and bit angry, although i haven’t felt that in a while, because there was no one, i told you that my feelings are valuable to me, and i channel them to the people i think worth it.

     

    and she is proud of you, isn’t she

    Yes she is.

     

    I am very low tech, but is it possible to spell out the link with spaces instead of copying and inserting it here?

    I realized that some free streaming sites might be illegal in your country and you might get in trouble, its not worth it, and the other option is bit complicated.

     

    I think about you living here, how you would like a much cooler area

    When i think about living in a different place, i just imagine how my persona would crash with other people, in a good way, it would be interesting to talk to norimes, sometimes.

     

    although global warming is here loud and clear

    If i can go to any country, i would choose the coldest one, i know i will miss the sun, but its better, i imagine that its so cold, that i grab my blanket, or better grab a person, though the latter is bit expensive, and just sleep restfully, i would imagine going out, at first its so cold, but then your body adjust, i would imagine going outside drinking coffee, smoking.

     

    you said something about the word “deserving” i think that one thing people miss when they say this word is that they assume the world is fair, thus thier work, thier effort must be rewarded, they deserve it, because they worked for it, this is good on paper, but in real life it can disppoint so many people, they work without reward, where is the deserving part?

    #383034
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza:

    Not just my time, but the help you wanted“- you offered that I take as much help from you as I want to take. A very generous offer. I don’t remember ever doing that, taking such help, as much as I want.

    You did, with a good reason, and I understood why“- clearly I did not perceive you correctly on both occasions. Like I wrote to you before, you are more perceptive than I am, still. On both occasions I saw a part of the picture as if it was the whole picture. My picture/ perception was limited.

    I didn’t thought that this small thing i gave mean so much to you“- it still does.

    It seems so small to ask for, i just felt that one of the reasons might be is because you are alone(?)“- I didn’t understand that kind-of question “because you are alone (?)”- can you restate?

    I was very angry when you first told me, it always bothered me when I see injustice happening, when I hear about it, makes me both frustrated and bit angry, although I haven’t felt that in a while, because there was no one, I told you that my feelings are valuable to me, and I channel them to the people I think worth it“- it is a good concept, to consider one’s feelings valuable and selecting who to feel them for, and who to not feel them for. Or who to.. keep feeling them for.

    Yes she is (proud of her big brother)“- that makes me say a mental Ohhhhh !

    When I think about living in a different place, I just imagine how my persona would crash with other people, in a good way, it would be interesting to talk to norimes, sometimes“- recently in communication with you I adopted my own definition of normie, one I feel strongly about, personally: a normie is a person who defends and excuses an abusive parent at the expense of the abused child/ adult-child. Imagining you at the taproom, imagining you interacting with the regulars there.. I wonder.

    “If i can go to any country, I would choose the coldest one, I know i will miss the sun, but it’s better, I imagine that it’s so cold, that I grab my blanket, or better grab a person, though the latter is bit expensive, and just sleep restfully, I would imagine going out, at first its so cold, but then your body adjust, I would imagine going outside drinking coffee, smoking”-

    – imagine not grabbing a person. Imagine a person coming to you, offering to be with you willingly, generously.. like you offered me help, to take as much as I want of it. Regarding the cold, what I found out about living as north as I am living for the first time in my life is that the problem about winter is wetness and ICE, people slip and fall walking: a neighbor slipped and fell on her wet porch and is suffering from pain for years now, in her hip, staying up at nights because it hurts, a server at the taproom slipped on ice on her porch, same kind of years of pain in her lower back.. I slipped on ice walking and thought I would die.. accidents, people driving on icy roads, losing control.

    I guess global warming is taking care of this problem as ice is melting in the poles, north and south.

    “they assume the world is fair, thus their work, their effort must be rewarded, they deserve it, because they worked for it, this is good on paper, but in real life it can disappoint so many people, they work without reward, where is the deserving part?”- it stayed in my mind when/ ever since I saw the movie Unforgiven: The sheriff said to Clint Eastwood who pointed a gun at the sheriff: “I don’t deserve to die like this. Clint Eastwood then said: “Deserves got nothing to do with it” and shot him. Sometimes it happens that we deserve something good and we get it, often it does not.

    Mary and Max, Wikipedia: Mary is an 8-year old lives a lonely life in Victoria, Australia. At school, she is teased by her classmates because of a birthmark on her forehead. At home, her distant father, and alcoholic mother, provide little support. One day, while at the post office with her mother, Mary spots a NY City telephone book, randomly chooses a name: Max Jerry Horowitz, and writes him a letter in the hope that he will become her pen pal.

    Max is a morbidly obese 44-year-old Jewish atheist who has trouble forming close bonds with other people, due to various mental and social problems. Though Mary’s letter initially gives him an anxiety attack, he decides to write back to her, and the two quickly become friends (partly due to their shared love of chocolate and a show called The Noblets). When Mary later asks Max about love, he suffers a severe anxiety attack and is institutionalized for eight months. After his release, he is hesitant to write to Mary again for some time, and Mary becomes despondent, thinking Max has abandoned her.

    On his 48th birthday, Max wins the New York Lottery and uses his winnings to buy a lifetime supply of chocolate and an entire collection of Noblets figurines. Meanwhile, Mary becomes despondent, thinking Max has abandoned her. On the advice of his therapist, Max finally writes back to Mary and explains he has been diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome. Mary is thrilled to hear from him again, and the two continue their correspondence for the next several years.

    Mary goes to a university, her birthmark surgically removed, and she develops a crush on her neighbor and later marries him. Inspired by her friendship with Max, Mary studies psychology at university, writing her doctoral dissertation on Asperger syndrome with Max as her case study. She plans to have her dissertation published as a book, but when Max receives a copy from her, he is infuriated, believing that she has taken advantage of his condition, which he sees as an integral part of his personality and not a disability that needs to be cured.

    Feeling betrayed and unable to put his emotions into words, he breaks off communication with Mary (by removing the letter “M” from his typewriter). Mary, heartbroken, ends her budding career, and sinks into depression, drinking cooking sherry, as her (dead) mother had done, and her husband leaves her for his own pen-pal. Meanwhile, Max almost choked a homeless man in anger, for throwing away a used cigarette. He realizes that Mary is an imperfect human being, like himself, and sends her a package containing his Noblet figurine collection as a sign of forgiveness. Mary, however, has sunken into despair after her husband’s departure, found some valium and decided to commit suicide. Right when she was about to hang herself, her neighbor alerts her to Max’s package and she gets to read Max’s letter where he tells her about his realization that they are not perfect and expresses his forgiveness, and how much their friendship means to him, and that he hopes their paths will cross one day.

    One year later, Mary travels to New York with her infant child to finally visit Max. Entering his apartment, Mary discovers Max on his couch, gazing upward with a smile on his face, having died earlier that morning. Looking around the apartment, Mary is awestruck to find all the letters she had sent to Max over the years, laminated and taped to the ceiling. Realizing Max had been gazing at the letters when he died, and seeing how much he had valued their friendship, Mary cries tears of joy as she sits beside him on the couch.

    – back to me: I am touched and moved just from reading Wikipedia’s entry on the movie- this is indeed a must-see movie. So much of the plot reminded me of what we talked about, for example, Max’s feeling that his diagnosis is not a disease that can be cured, that it is part of who he is.. and so much more. I am about to take a walk and then be busy for the day. I will look for the movie tomorrow, in about 24 hours from now.

    anita

     

    #383041
    anita
    Participant

    Also, the plot made me think of you and me, of course, the Max-and Marry connection,  I mean.

    anita

    #383077
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza:

    Your name starts with an M, like Max in the movie. I watched clips of the movie from beginning to end. Mary, a young social outcast, Max, a much older social outcast, the narrator referring to them as two “unfortunate souls”- I don’t like this characterization, that of an “unfortunate soul”, suggesting a world of fortunate souls with two exceptions..

    The friendship between Mary and Max ended when he was hospitalized (if I understand correctly), then resumed, then ended again when he got mad at her for her book, writing about him as a case study, then resumed again when she read his letter about forgiving her… then ended again because he died.

    In his letter to her, he wrote: “The reason I forgive you is because you are not perfect. You are imperfect. And so am I. All humans are imperfect… we don’t get to choose our warts. They are a part of us and we have to live with them. We can however, choose our friends. And I am glad I have chosen you”- this is beautiful. I hope that you will tell me what you like so much about the movie, and what parts of yourself do you see in Mary, what other parts do you see in Max?

    anita

    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by anita.
    #383092
    Murtaza
    Participant

    Dear anita, i just wrote a two section of replays and my browser shut off completely, i will mention what i wrote later (hopefully) but right now i will answer your post.

     

    clearly I did not perceive you correctly on both occasions

    I think you being nice here, it was my fault, especially the first time, i gave you every reason to stop.

     

    I didn’t understand that kind-of question

    I was thinking that no one gave you what you want, not because its hard to have (since its small thing) but because (one of the reasons) you are alone, by alone i mean mentally.

     

    my own definition of normie, one I feel strongly about, personally: a normie is a person who defends and excuses an abusive parent at the expense of the abused child/ adult-child.

    This seems like a good definition, although i wanna ask you, why this “norime” do such thing? Im asking your opinion.

     

    Imagine a person coming to you, offering to be with you willingly, generously

    I can imagine this, but i can’t believe it, being alone for so long i developed this believe, sad.

     

    the problem about winter is wetness and ICE, people slip and fall walking

    There isn’t anything good in this world is it? Lol

     

    ever since I saw the movie Unforgiven:

    Unforgiven is one of my favorite western movies, i really like clint Eastwood, not just as an actor, but a director, he is old school but very cool.

     

    I remember the scene you mentioned, one of my favorite scenes is when they told him that his partner is dead, he immediately grabs the alcohol, even though the whole movie he said no to it.

     

    I will replay to the rest of your post tomorrow.

    #383101
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Murtaza:

    Sorry you lost your reply. I am glad to read your post, I was sad earlier that you didn’t post at the regular time, quite sad, really. I noticed now because I feel better that you posted.

    you are alone, by alone I mean mentally“- very much my experience although I’ve been quite intoxicated, literally and figuratively, at the taproom, enjoying social interactions with multiple people.. in the last few years- the togetherness feeling, aided by red wine, is euphoric.

    I wanna ask you, why this “norime” do such thing? I’m asking your opinion“- normies protect abusive parents because normies support those in power, and parents are always in power over their young children.

    Normies support power over justice (this is why the world is unfair and why…  “deserves got nothing to do with it”)

    Regarding my line yesterday: “Imagine a person coming to you, offering to be with you willingly, generously”- I felt badly about having written it to you, yesterday after I posted, because I remembered that you said it is impossible for you to have this experience.  I felt bad for suggesting that you imagine something that is not possible for you.

    I can imagine this, but I can’t believe it, being alone for so long I developed this believe, sad“- you said earlier that it is impossible for you.

    There isn’t anything good in this world is it? Lol“- and yet it is the only place (that I know) where life exists. Sadly, life and suffering goes hand in hand.

    Unforgiven is one of my favorite western movies..” – I watched Unforgiven dozens of times, it is definitely one of the top few favorite movies of all times, for me (and for you, we have this in common, how exciting!)

    Until tomorrow, I hope you sleep well.

    anita

    #383119
    Murtaza
    Participant

    Dear anita, my apologies for my short post, there is two reasons why this happened

     

    A. I wrote a very good post, then i lost it, so i couldn’t say the same things, it would  be a pain

     

    B. These days im so tired, my meds start to go deeper on dopamine, im feeling more tired, everything seem pointless, just effort with no reward, on top of that the heat is increasing, and my air conditioner is kinda broken

     

    We have two sources of power, generator subscription by people (with a limited amber based on what you pay) and electricity from the government, which comes every two hours (unlimited amber usage) the thing is, the electricity from the government comes low, even if its unlimited, the air conditioner can’t generate cold air, it happens just in the summer when too much people use it, since the number of people increased over the years, and they did nothing for that, the power plan is so old, it was built for few people, back in the 90s.

     

    Also, the plot made me think of you and me, of course, the Max-and Marry connection,  I mean

    Yes, this is why i suggest it.

     

    I was sad earlier that you didn’t post at the regular time, quite sad

    I am sorry.

     

    very much my experience although I’ve been quite intoxicated, literally and figuratively, at the taproom, enjoying social interactions with multiple people.

    I don’t imagine you talk with  personal things when you are in the taproom? No one understood your pain in the past, this is why i said alone mentally, i don’t think anyone chooses to be alone, i think that its something like a bad luck.

     

    normies support those in power, and parents are always in power over their young children.

    I understand.

     

    I felt badly about having written it to you

    It was a nice line, i liked it 😀

     

    I can imagine this, but I can’t believe it, being alone for so long I developed this believe, sad“- you said earlier that it is impossible for you.

    Impossible is over exaggerating word, what i meant, its very very unlikely to happen, to get back on what i meant here:

     

    I can imagine such thing, but i can’t believe it, in my mind, i HATE things i can’t believe in, so i should’ve said “I can’t imagine that” my mind will simply won’t allow me, i can force this imagination, but i won’t enjoy it, this is why when i started to believe that i can’t have a normal relationship, i started to imagine pity love etc, back then it was enough, in time i learned that this kinda of love isn’t worth it, so i kinda ran out, anything that is a bit unrealistic, my mind will disregard it immediately, one of the qualities of having a strong need for the truth.

     

    I don’t like this characterization, that of an “unfortunate soul”, suggesting a world of fortunate souls with two exceptions..

    I didn’t understand this part, can you elaborate more?

     

    To my understanding they are unfortunate souls because they are alone, in unlucky situations.

     

    then ended again because he died.

    It didn’t end, there was a glimpse of hope, the music choice support that, its sad with a little of hope, in the end max was looking at the ceiling, looking at marry letters, she then hold his hand, her friendship with him will remain in her memory, it was immortal.

     

     I hope that you will tell me what you like so much about the movie, and what parts of yourself do you see in Mary, what other parts do you see in Max?

    If you ever noticed, in life max, its black and white, in mary its colorful, my life is kinda black and white, what i liked about the movie, is that its realistic, max life is similar to mine, he workd a few jobs, he did few things, but he wasn’t happy, he wasn’t sad either, just living, the movie gives a closer look to the truth, with a little bit of hope, there is people like max, and they will always be alone, and its because of who they are, deserveing has nothing to do with it, my brother is (who also on the autism spectrum) is one, its just so good to see your suffering in other people (i feel that im not alone)

     

    In mary however i don’t see anything similar, i didn’t like that she got depressed and ruined her life over a letter from a person, i will never let an external thing move me like that.

     

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