Dear anita

felt angry at  you yesterday, before posting to you last

I don’t want to communicate with Murtaza anymore, I will feel better if I am no longer in contact with him.

It amazes me how self aware you are, how you describe your feelings in details, to respone: i am sorry for responding late, your feelings are very valuable to me, you shared a very sensitive things, and for that thank you, for being that open, i think that if i was ever with a person like you and we had a relationship, it would be a very good one, i can’t think of a better one.

I was angry anyway, an automatic reaction

It is alright, i understand, you don’t even need to explain, if you ever did feel that again, i wouldn’t mind if you expressed it either, im imagining you getting angry at me, expressing it, it looks cute, its funny too, i don’t know why (no offense).

but in the rest of the apartment, it works, right..?

It seems that its not broken, but the electricity is just too low, each room has an individual AC, and its a house, when i went to Turkey, i was amazed on how they manged money, apartments have only the important things, no extra space, in iraq, there is so much waste, if its in the housing area, or the house itself, so much unneeded stuff.

It is more that I ask people questions, greet them warmly, pay attention to what they share over time and let them know that I remember, making them feel important, perhaps, and I express myself spontaneously as a response to what they say (facial expressions, smiling, saying witty things from time to time)

As i read this, your image in my head look so beautiful, so beautiful that it makes me a bit sad that we are so far away.

I hate expecting people to be consistent about anything, to be reliable, dependable because that’s not my experience with people

I understand, to me i expect the worse of them, but i keep my expectations as realistic as it can be, in our conversation, i expect that we continue, and we gonna stop someday, either i gonna say something wrong, or we just run out of subjects (there is no possibility in my head that you gonna say something wrong, because you are perfect :D)

as everyone else, the fortunate ones, free to live, while I was not. Later on, as I broke through that vacuum and connected with some others, eventually, I got to see that I was not the only one suffering

Yes i understand, its black and white, its more like degrees.

Coming to think about it, it is the imagining of the unrealistic and untruthful (eternal living without pain) that is dangerous, which brings so much pain

Very true, this is what happened to me with love, i had so much expectation for it, so much unrealistic thinking about it, it was quite a shock to know the truth, the ugly truth i call it, its ugly not because this is how it is, but because i thought that it was more beautiful then it actually is.

The glimpse of hope that their friendship is immortal is unrealistic thinking

My bad, by immortal i meant she will always remember him, remember thier friendship, it will die with her ofcourse (by immortal i meant that it will stay as long as she lives) but i used the wrong word for poetry effects, i do it quite often actually.

One true togetherness makes future togetherness possible because you already have that experience. You can believe something to happen again because it already happened.

Im afraid i didn’t understand that, im not that smart after all lol.

It is as if parts of yourself are right here, right above me, tangible, I can touch them, touch the paper if I stand up on a chair, touch the paper you touched, which you wrote on.

You shared a very personal part of yourself in here, especially with your feelings, i want to do the same, i want to tell you what i felt reading your post, i felt love for you, gulit for not doing what i can to go where you live and be around you, sadness, frustration, my thoughts is “i wish..” then i stop this thought, it angers me, i then blame myself, its all comes very fast, and its also automatic, this is embarrassing and dangerous, you could end the conversation here, i hope you don’t, in my defense, i just say that i don’t control my feelings, however i do control my actions, and in our conversation, i won’t project my feelings, or do any of that, i did felt this for a while now, and our conversation stayed the same.

and in so doing, I was to ruin a whole lot

I don’t think you can ruin this by only anger, i think that what i gave you, and what you gave me, can’t be ruined, at least in my opinion, if you felt angry at me and ended our conversation, i will understand, i won’t forget our conversation, how you liked me even when i said all those things, how nice and understanding you are, how i appreciate such person, even if he don’t wanna talk to me, im will be sad that this wonderful person chooseed to not talk to me.

Dear anita, i just wrote a two section of replays and my browser shut off completely, i will mention what i wrote later (hopefully) but right now i will answer your post.

clearly I did not perceive you correctly on both occasions

I think you being nice here, it was my fault, especially the first time, i gave you every reason to stop.

I didn’t understand that kind-of question

I was thinking that no one gave you what you want, not because its hard to have (since its small thing) but because (one of the reasons) you are alone, by alone i mean mentally.

my own definition of normie, one I feel strongly about, personally: a normie is a person who defends and excuses an abusive parent at the expense of the abused child/ adult-child.

This seems like a good definition, although i wanna ask you, why this “norime” do such thing? Im asking your opinion.

Imagine a person coming to you, offering to be with you willingly, generously

I can imagine this, but i can’t believe it, being alone for so long i developed this believe, sad.

the problem about winter is wetness and ICE, people slip and fall walking

There isn’t anything good in this world is it? Lol

ever since I saw the movie Unforgiven:

Unforgiven is one of my favorite western movies, i really like clint Eastwood, not just as an actor, but a director, he is old school but very cool.

I remember the scene you mentioned, one of my favorite scenes is when they told him that his partner is dead, he immediately grabs the alcohol, even though the whole movie he said no to it.

I will replay to the rest of your post tomorrow.

you woke up around 7 am this Friday. I wonder if you had breakfast before you turned on your computer. (No need to answer, it is just a wondering)

It was around 5 or 6, i replay to you using phone, because its more comfortable then to do it on the computer, besides its hotter in my room (and i learned that the wether of the room could change my response, the way i sit also) so i lay down while i write to you, i didn’t had breakfast the other day (which was a mistake because answering you take about 1 hour or so), i usually wake up doing things for half an hour before i eat, sometimes workout sometimes shopping, sometimes just lay and watch tv. Sometimes i take more then half an hour.

how strange it is to receive the highest quality help without paying for it, just like that, for free

You did pay for it, from the beginning of our conversation, even at (i can’t cry anymore), i don’t usually use the word “deserve” but you deserve that help, even more, from all members in here, not just me, if we live in a fair world, you very much deserve that.

I said to myself: better not take too much of it, better not work you to exhaustion!

You can take as much as you want.

and before I read the rest, I thought to myself a parallel thought: I am afraid that I might get angry at Murtaza again

I don’t mind it, just know that i perfer that you be angry at me and Express it then to leave and not say anything, i won’t stop talking unless you say so

it is as if I saw evil for the first time, as I held her image in my mind, looking at me with those evil eyes, it is as if I met with evil for the first time, holding her image.. as if I didn’t know that evil really exists till now.

Do you think that, because i said so, that she is evil, you started to believe that about her? Or is it because something else? Because maybe the guilt stopped you from thinking about this and you never tried to think of her like this?

you say it like a personal part of me is valuable

It is.

like I am  valuable

You are.

and I say to the voices: yes, of course there were/ are people  kind to me, it’s just that this here is special

now i have some assumption, but i just wanna make sure (if its gets too boring i understand), what did i gave you that was special? That people couldn’t give? Understanding? Validation? A combination of both and other things?

I imagine young boy Murtaza, as she screamed at me, there is Murtaza “furious (telling her): ‘how dare you even talk to her like that? Are you even her (mother)? What did you do to her to be her (her mother)?’ (She) didn’t reply”, and “from what (anita) remembers it was so satisfying”.

When i talk about this day with my sister, i tell her (this is my favorite episode) she laughs. It was something i remember and be proud.

what exactly do I google to watch the particular episode you are referring to?

Its mary and max 2009, a movie, not tv show, i don’t know how you could watch it though, there is free streaming sites on the web, if you still want to and don’t know where to watch it from, i can give you a link? Maybe in emails? (I think that this site doesn’t accept links?)

It is a bit scary, to share beyond what I already shared in these forums

Its completely fine if you don’t, and my question was more about to show care for you then to know, you can choose what to tell me (whitout me asking and answering them), just say so in the next post and i will be happy to replay to them, maybe discuss them (i like that we are discussing anita, and would love to do more, if you want to) though if you think its enough, then its enough.

 I hope you are sleeping restfully right now

I did, i hope you have a good day.

Dear antia, as i read your post, especially at the end “no one felt angry at her” “you the only one who did” “everyone criticize me for that anger”, i teared up, it was a long time since i felt this way.

everyone else would have made assumptions, assumptions that would have terribly annoyed me and cause me to regret I ever shared this stuff

I understand anita, everytime i tell people a little about my life, they immediately assume the rest of it, not only that but they are sure that this assumption is true, in my post to you, i never made an assumption that im sure its true unless you confirm it. (I admit i made some bald assumption in the past in our conversation, and for that im sorry)

I said that “you are kinda famous, liked in here” you wrote that it is not true, i believe i said this because the first time i saw what you do here, i liked you very much, because you dedicate time and effort for every member, your detailed replay showed how you much care about everyone, and that i thought everyone sees you that way, and that everyone (like me) waits for your next replay, i never saw your replay to people though, but i made an assumption without any proofs.

They need someone to walk into their home and help them out. Online advice is impotent

Yes, true.

this offer indicates that you are gentle

Sometimes i wish that i can practice this gentleness, though i can only do little through words

I don’t think that I was able to imagine there being another person with me- she wouldn’t have allowed it, not in real life and not in my imagination

What i understand from this is that she controlled your mind/imagination when you was around her, she was like the devil (in islam devil lives in everyone of us and he whispers us to do bad things) only she was worse, i can’t imagine you living like that everyday.

You replied to my “mothers are highly valued, doesn’t matter if they are bad” “hope that this attitude will not show up in the rest of your post. This societal attitude”

To answer: i was criticizing valuing mothers like that, because it gives them so much power, what i said “mothers are highly valued” was true (when i read the rest of your post), everyone who you told about your mother, either empathize with her, or give her excuses, no one was mad at her, no one hated her, she did this to you, because society allows this, if there was a law that stops her from being her, you wouldn’t have suffer that much, there is a reason why we have laws, to stop some people from being themselves.

A voice within me, a societal/ normie voice says: she is your mother, she was a good mother, you are making things up, you are lying, you.. you.. you are the problem, a bad girl, disloyal to her mother.

I understand, its now two voices against this, yours and mine.

she murdered my love for her, and then, my love for her resurrected as the “living dead” from that movie- is my best image of my love for her: a love-corpse moving around clumsily, making strange grunting sounds

So much anger in this sentence, im impressed how well you said this.

She was big and angry back then, she had big, strong hands, I was short and thin, she was loud, she said: I’ll kill you, I’ll break you into many small pieces

I would imagine that you wanted so much, so badly, to someone to release you from her, to interver and stops her, but no one did, because its “YoUr MoThEr”

I don’t think any person in my life, ever, expressed anger at my mother except for you, particularly in the context of her interactions with me.

I was always alone with my anger toward her.

you not only were absued but no one even acknowledge that little thing, that simple and small thing, and you wished for so long that someone would just be angry at her, just be angry, its makes me so sad.

No one took my side against her.

When i first heard “she slapped me” i immediately hated her, and was mad at her, and i would think this is the least she did, but im bit surprised (i don’t expect a lot from normies) that no one hated her, hated what she did, was angry at her, it feels like the normal response to any sane person, that this gental and nice person right here were treated like a slave, (excuse my example)

but NONE, EVER was angry at her for how she treated me

No one felt your pain, no one validate your feelings about her, and you thought that you must be wrong, the evidence is everyone tells you are wrong, the whole world tells you to respect your mother, even if she is bad, to forgive her, how could that voice, that little tiny voice inside you beat the whole world?

You wanted people to be angry at her for what she did to you, not other reasons, because then you would know that they know you are suffering, you just wanted that, them to know, what a simple thing to ask.

To add to it: people criticized me for being angry at her

Ofcourse they did, they have good mothers/ not aware of thier bad mothers because society brainwashed thier values and beliefs to not see the ugly truth.

I needed, looking back, someone to come in that small apartment were I lived, and get angry at her, ANGRY

This reminds me of something (although this post is mainly about you, though if don’t mention this i don’t think i will remember again in the future), i remember that when my father was alive, he used to bother us a lot, screams and stuff, one time he was screaming at my little sister, and i was furious, i told him “how dare you even talk to her like that? Are you even her father? What did you do to her to be her father?” He didn’t replay, from what i remember it was so satisfying.

Your reply is very satisfactory to me. Thank you, a lot

You are more then welcome, and thank you for trusting me.

Feel free to not respond to everything I wrote, to choose this or that and reply to those things,

I didn’t comment on everything (because i felt adding a comment to some of your replay would be not nice, and unneccessary) though you should know i understand most of it, and the part i didn’t i either assumed stuff (even when i don’t say “i suppose?” Anything about you and your personal life is an assumption by me, and that you are the only one who confirm it/say the truth) or just asked.

Dear anita, im impressed by your detailed and great replay, i don’t think i can do justice to it.

You did not argue with me. What a relief

I honestly didn’t know you feel that way about arguing, thank you for telling me.

I think that I am argument-phobic

Its werid because you good at it :D, and i think the reason might be because you lived alone for so long, you thought a lot about things, you learned how to think, the result is that you right now, think twice before you write anything

repeating her message to me that my thinking/ my understanding is wrong (while promoting her unintelligent and/ or insane, and constantly shifting thinking as the correct thinking and understanding)

I think i understand, though i like to leave no doubt, so i will tell you what i understood and you correct me (if the subject is personal and you wanted to only share that, just disregard this section and i will understand to not ask such stuff in the future)

She (your mother) said stuff that isn’t true, though you felt they are, even when you know they aren’t, so you felt that you are the problem, that your understanding/logic is flawed, so you dislike argument because its unconsciously tells you that you are the problem, that your understanding is flawed, is this correct?

I feel like im anita now lol, feels good actually.

unheard. It was as if I screamed but no one heard.. as if my screams, literal or figurative (my intense fear and anger and excruciating frustration, shame and guilt) were silent, no one saw me, no one heard me, no one.. no one there.

I wish that you had someone hearing you, i hope that this changed right now, that you don’t feel unheard like that anymore, would’ve loved to hear you, to do exactly what you do to other members and me, understand you and make you feel heard, and important

And no, there was no internet back then

How did you spend your day if i may ask? (Again disregard anything personal, no need to adress it, i will know that this was personal and i wouldn’t ask in the future).

The Superior category is not homogenous: many within it are considered inferior and/ or feel inferior.

Very true

I said “What it comes to my mind is that, anyone who feel he can help you  that he can advice/ teach you (mostly)feel a bit superior…”

I admit that i was a bit defensive here, i re thinked about what i said, and i think that there is a lot of reasons why people help others, and it oftens doesn’t feel like the other person think he is superior, a good example is teak, i don’t think she thought that she is superior (maybe a little bit), she did made me feel like that at first (she made fun of me not believing in freewill) and i did wanted to make fun of her belief of god, but i didn’t, cause i respect others beliefs no matter how werid they are to me, because to them it make sense, i didn’t like when someone make fun of my belief, so i won’t do that to people (unless it was for a greater purpose)

I think that help mostly involves the things i mentioned above, but its not the other person intention, i think people intention (mostly) are well, but for me, since i have different values and beliefs, thier help usually conflict with those

I think that it was something like this: a bird is caught in seaweed that is wrapped around her wings and body, she can’t move, she can’t fly.

Very good example, i think that for some birds, just forget flying, and forget that they have wings, i think that the first is better, but it will involves much more strength, to be trapped for so long, yet still wanting to fly.

Dear anita, i was thinking of something the other day, my big brother is autistic and he kinda use my mother to get from her attention and to hear him out, she don’t mind since she feel like she is giving something (a sense of worth), the thing that bothers me is that i remembered our conversation,  if this is whats happening here, plaese lets end it because i won’t like myself

Today i was thinking of my values, and although im fixable, i do value not hurting people and just leave them be, to live in peace with them, so from now on, i won’t answer another member that i don’t see a point of our conversation, and i won’t answer him unless i have something nice to say, i think that its better to not say anything then to lie, and i do appreciate thier help (kinda) but i don’t really feel thanking them, if i did im afraid it would be for other reasons, to use them for my emotional needs, just like my mother did with us, its something inherited and im trying not to do people like that, the thing is, without this, i don’t see a point of people, anyhow, this was supposed to be a quick post just to be sure that this conversation isn’t just about me, and if you make a lot of effort in it, i want you to lessen that effort, because i don’t put the same kinda effort, as you said, we are equal, and i want you to give in a reasonable amount, in a fair way, but im totally ok with both, i want you to be as comfortable as you can be, i will always remember our conversation as similar to mary and max, in this scenario, its even better

Dear anita, you misunderstand my example, and its my fault actually, its the opposite of what you think

My thoughts: (1) Birdman’s voice was society’s voice telling him what to do. Being obedient to this voice comforted him. He didn’t have to think for himself

I should’ve been more clear, the voice inside his head wasn’t a societal influenced one, it was more like a unique voice that tells him what to do, what i was jealous of, is that guidance, the guidance of the voice, his voice was separate from him, because of his shizophernia, you should watch the movie lol

(2) It is comforting to imagine that someone/ something greater than me knows best, has all the answers and I don’t have to bother myself with questions or answers. This is why so many people adhere to religion

True but for me it has so many negative sides

You were jealous of the comfort Birdman felt hearing his societal voice, but you remember the shame and guilt that was attached to your societal voice back in 2018- it was not a comforting voice for you

I was jealous of how the voice comforted him, in one scene of the movie when he lose his play, the voice tells him “So you’re not a great actor! Who cares?” the way he says this, i remembered my voice, the same kinda of apathy, lost love and all life passion, and it say “Who Cares?” Its undefeatable

There is a New Voice in your head (“this voice”). It is the Voice of Apathy, and you are hoping that this voice will take over “all other voices”.

There was a fight inside me back in 2018, two voices, the societal one and mine, eventually it take over, and its not new, its been living for a long time, what i like about the voice that its comforting, everything i lose and lost and it still tells me “So what?”, when i compare it to a norime mind, i feel so much peace, i forgot how people live

and you are hoping that this voice will take over “all other voices”

In your first post to me, you said “Murtaza vs society”, i already won, thank to the help of medication, i now no longer need society nor want nor desire anything from it, both my desire of love and motivation to do things has been lost, and i do miss them sometimes but when i remember the GAD, and how i was living everyday, i say its worth it, it wasn’t needed anyway

I will re read your post in about 10 hours, maybe add some.

Dear antia

as long as you don’t argue with the normies there! lol.

You make me smile

My day is upside down these days”, you wrote at 8:37 am your time, meaning..?

I woke up at the middle of the night 00:00, and i sleep at the day time, because its too hot in the day time

you express a complexity here, part of you loves her, part of you feel offended by her.

Since i haven’t thought about this to form an opinion, so im just gonna answer with what it comes to my mind right now “and i may change my mind later about this”, but i think its very solid answer, what i love about them is that they are compassionate and nice, and i imagine they would accept me for who i am, help me, maybe even hug me, feel my pain, what i don’t like is thier ideas and beliefs and values, that was given to them by society, and here im only assuming that they are a match with society, in Iraq what i have seen that females tend to follow society ideas and beliefs more then males, the reason i can think of is that males have more testosterone (correct me if im wrong), in a short description (i love them emotionally, i dislike them intellectually) i believe that this intellectual gonna interfere with the emotional, and for me to value the emotional side i first have to have the intellectual understanding, especially when i spent a lot of time to develop.

Its interesting to read the rest of your post, i will read more soical alienation, never thought there is a name to my situation, everytime i read about something i feel alienated, that it doesn’t describe me, so i stopped.

he would have given you a very  high grade on the social alienation spectrum

It seems like a double edged sword, i think that where i live this isn’t acceptable, that it do more harm then good to the person

The third major form of social influence is obedience: this is a change in behavior that is the result of a direct order or command from another person”- you get a very, very bad grade for being obedient,

I remember that there was a voice inside my head that was influenced by society ideas, imagine that i could separate this voice from mine, to this day i do, i might add more to that If you are interested, i feel like sometimes i say things that aren’t neccessary (which i apologize, i said that i will be as short as possible and as direct to the point as possible, but this seems impossible for me since when i write all different ideas come to me and i cant seem to foucs on one, so i might drift from the main point)