So anyone who challenges your thinking must disagrees with it

no, though why challenge such thinking ? what would be the point?

To learn and engage with others, to develop better arguments?

No one as you point out can fully understand another. If the criteria with engagement with another is that they must fully understand you  and where understanding means agreeing 100% with your life philosophy and never challenge you… I don’t think that’s makes for healthy relationship. One thing I am certain of is that relationships challenge everyone involved. Perhaps its one of their purposes as they create the crucible for growth and becoming. (I assume here that Life desires/demands growth) It’s perplexing or a wonder as a relationship may be experience as healthy or unhealthy, the possibility of growth is always present. More madding that it often takes a unhealthy relationship to create the growth.

If I understand your argument you believe that the accumulative past experiences will eventually become hardcoded and so determine a individual reaction to the present moment. That argument can’t be disproved as you can always say that anyone who questions it only questions it because of their past, their nature and nurture have conditioned them, its in the gens, at at some tipping point can’t be changed?

i asked you a simple question, if you really do have freewill, can you say NO to life? not only saying no, but having the same attitude and beliefs as someone saying no, its a hypothetical question i know, but tell me what do you have to do to end up saying No? cause you really can’t, you simply say yes, lucky i would say

Not really a simple question: My view on freewill is that we have it but that it is very difficult to exercise. Between stimulus and response, the time between the unconscious and conscious, measured to be about a half second, we react or respond. In that half second the present becomes the past (filtered by our past and future hopes).

A person may practice meditation and mindfulness to make the gap between the unconscious and conscious as small as possible. The do this by making the filters conscious. A skillful practice removes the unhelpful filters as well as any cognitive distortions we may have. This creates the possibility of influencing the experience of the present. It does not change the present only the experience of the present which then becomes memory, and then may or may not become part of a filter through which future stimulus will be processed.  A filter replacing a filter, the reflection of the present moment  always a reflection of the past, there is always a gap. (perhaps a Buddha might be able to remove the gap)

My personal experience has shown me that mindful reflection can change the experience of memory/past and that doing so has change the experience of the present. The painful experience of a relationship ending can be the worst experience of someone’s life, then latter discovering that experience lead to personal growth and strength. From one perspective that’s just messed up, from another amazing. Both experiences now in the past as memory combined, bitter sweet. Is their choice in how the present will be experienced with such a past, now memory?

I don’t know, your argument still stands, maybe its all determined by our gens or maybe its all an illusion. Yet even so, a Buddhist might say one approach to such a illusion may be more skillful then the other. A philosopher may say either way you are accountable. Was that an exercising of freewill? I can’t prove it.

With regards to the idea of answering Yes and No to Life. I grew up the the semiconscious notion that because of ‘sin’, man broke life, but could fix it, usually by following the rules and being ‘good’. This notion in hind sight was really saying No to Life but we can fix it!

In the first half of life this was very useful as it gave me meaning and purpose, Energy to engage with life. Not so much as it was but as I was trying to shape it. Some are able to maintain that view point but in my opinion, only if they refuse to look at life as it is. I could not and hit my head against the problem of , pain/evil – the problem of duality, the problem of opposites.  This turned to a time of depression, when my response to Life was a ‘No get me off this ride’.

That prove very unhelpful. After much search of how others dealt with this response/reaction to Life I explored a response of Yes. This response didn’t change the past or present however it did change my experience of my past and imagined future. Its difficult to describe as its a personal subjective experience. As a taste I would describe it as bitter sweet. (the teste of life?) There is a sense of peace, even contentment but also sorrow that comes with a Yes, which feels like a paradox but isn’t. A Yes does not look away from the reality of Life but flows with it

Today I move from No let me off this ride and a Yes, the challenge has been falling into a trap of indifference. Can a person remain still as they dance with life? To be contemplative and act, knowing their actions will end as all actions do?

Their is the practice of sand painting. The artist spend hours creating a masterpiece, takes a movement to ‘see’ it and then destroys it. Such is Life as it is. Can their be pleasure in the creating and a detachment of the inevitable end of all things, all moments? This is what I wonder… My own experience answers… maybe. I’m a work in progress , each moment a practice that starts anew.

When I find myself distraught. I take a breath and ask myself, how am I in this moment responding to Life. Most of the time its a reactive No, I don’t want to play. The dis-ease most often arising not from the moment but my reaction of No. Wishing to ‘fix’ Life, that it be other, and not wanting to play.  In the next breath I attempt to be more skillful with my answer and sometimes even succeed. This of course does not disprove your theory of Life.

symbols to what ? i like to be clear as possible, say what i really mean, without any symbols, i dislike symbols, because really if you want to say something, why not just say it

The word tree is not a tree. 16 bits of information that points past itself to a actual specific objective tree of which the 16 bits describe very little. Subjectively the word tree is a experience, a idea, a possibility of million of bits of information. The word tree pointing to something beyond the definition of the word tree, or the object that is a tree.  The map is not the territory, and words are the map not the territory. All words are symbols of the territory.

It is unlikely that we will understand each other and I’m not sure you want to? When I talked of saying Yes and No to Life as it its I indicated that both answers were valid, that perhaps their was a time for either.  I did suggest that the wisdom traditions appear to suggest that Yes was a ‘better’ answer but even those are often practiced as a No.  The intention is to take ownership of the answer and know in the moment how one is responding or reacting to life.  Saying No to something that cannot be changed may provide the energy to change what can or it can be just a waist of energy.

Let me speak plainly. When I read your writing this is the impression I am left with.
Few have suffered as much as you, or been dealt such a difficult hand. Only those who have been dealt such a hand might understand, but their isn’t anyone?   Anyone that has found a way to deal with such suffering have have fooled themselves and refuse to look at their reality with honesty?  Like the normies they can be dismissed. Your reasoning appears to allow you to be superior in your disappointment of the hand dealt you.

Superior, even if miserable, happy?

I don’t view that as a contradiction, I know many that find ‘joy’ even happiness  in being ‘realistic’ with what many might call a negative view of life. I suspect that I preferer a melancholy state of being, that in a way I find ‘joy’ in being sad.

I do think we have free will but that it is extremely difficult to exercise. (I suspect that most of us (myself included) have never learned how to exercise it)   As above so below as below so above, we are influenced and we influence, only the ‘above doing the influencing’, is the most likely.

We are dealt cards that we did not ask for, and some cards suck, some people will never experience happiness or joy as those words are generally understood.  Yet I wonder. How is it that some who have been dealt the best of hands fall into depression, while some with the worst hands don’t and even thrive in their way?

You don’t understand a thing about me, or people like me, you don’t know how it feels like to live without “wonder” and “fun”, you will never know, so please save your advice to people like you

Sorry if I offended you. I don’t presume to understand you, thus the dialog, and I trust you don’t presume to understand me.
I wasn’t offering advice just a philosophical perspective on my view of Life. A very general perspective that I find helpful. Its taken me years to get to a place where I can sometimes stop demanding that LIFE be other then it is. (sometimes I still ‘enjoy’ giving Life the finger). My struggle is avoiding indifference.  That said we must each find our own way through the woods.

The idea that Life is suffering is one of the 4 noble truths – some find it helpful, some don’t, so I won’t get into that.

I find your generalization of ‘norimes’ troubling and likely unhelpful. It seems to be dependent on your ability to ‘know’ what others are feeling and experiencing, something you often accuse others of.

I was wrong about what I thought you were seeking and we aren’t using language in the same way, so will end this dialog such as it was between us. Anita seems best suited to engage with you.

I wish you well. I suspect you won’t believe that, but I do.

Hi Cris

Their is another saying that ‘familiarity breeds contempt’ which I guess has some truth.  The longer we know someone the more likely we forget what attracted us to them and take things for granted. Hopefully that doesn’t lead to contempt.

I think partners having different interests is good for a relationship as long the differences are respected.  I also don’t think partners need to have everything in common or do everything together all the time.  Teaching a extrovert to enjoy quite time and a introvert to be more social at times is a positive.

In ballroom dancing when your learning to connect as a lead or follow the intention is to create space and fill it. Their is a difference in how the Lead creates space and fills it and how the Follow fills space and creates its but both are creating space and filling it. Creating and filling space at the same time may seem a impossibility but we do all the time. Doing so consciously allows our partner to ‘know’ were we are, where we are going, what shape is being created… Its a communication that isn’t a pull or push but a invitation. And so we dance.

A shared practice of mindfulness and gratitude could help in creating and filling space. I find it helpful sometimes to ask my self – ‘How am I creating space? How is the space being field? How am I filling space?

• This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by Peter.

Not having someone close to talk things over with our inner conversation often turns dark. Projection is often a attempt to escape these dark thoughts however that usually takes us out of ourselves .

I found checking my thinking and writing for cognitive discordance (becoming more mindful of how my thoughts  manifested) helpful. My tendency is to overgeneralize, all or nothing thinking, catastrophizing and thinking I Knew what others were thinking. I also keep an eye out for victims and villain stories. The intention is to notice and not judge myself.

The interview or company may or may not be looking for geniuses, however you can’t know that, or likely define what geniuses means to those representing the company in the interview.   I suspect a ‘fit’ would include personality and ability with personality often more important assuming the candidate has a good working foundation and ability to learn.

The best interview I ever had was one in which when I arrived and looked around thought no way would they hire me. However, instead of choking I had the thought that I had nothing to lose. I was relaxed, enthusiastic and engaged in active listening which create more of a conversation vibe. I surprised myself and got the job.

This corresponds with suicidal thoughts. One if you really wished you were dead you would have nothing to lose so might as well be yourself and let go of the anxiety which isn’t helpful ( some anxiety can be helpful). In dream/symbolic language the ‘desire to die’ is a desire for change and recognizing that all change requires a  dying.  The letting go of the old to create space for the new. (the old often becoming fertilizer for the new). To the ego change is often experienced as if one was actually going to physically die and so the ego resists change even as the subconscious push toward authentic self.  We find ourselves wishing to die and at the same time afraid to die. Subconscious communicates though a langue of  symbol and will use dreams of death or even suicidal thoughts to communicate that a moment of birth is possible if we let go of our fear and ego… scary stuff.

In the above context the thoughts of wanting to die don’t have to be taken as suicidal thoughts but the reaffirmation that you are really seeking growth.

Felix

Sorry for not being helpful. I very much relate to your difficulty and struggle with the ‘two worlds’  we all live in – Accepting of myself as while having to deal with a ‘corporatist’ world.  I am bigger then big and smaller then small. How to engage with the latter while being authentic to former.  Is it possible to be ‘of the world and separate’ which is also contained within the ‘still point’.

We contradict and work against ourselves, wishing for self acceptance (contentment) while not being able to take our eyes off the ‘corporatist’ influence others have over us.  I’m pretty sure that until I find away to Accept Life as it is and say Yes to it as it is, I will never be content or be able to accept of myself as I am.

I’ve always liked the Song ‘The Riddle” by Five for Fighting. I thing it holds many truths

There was a man back in ’95
Whose heart ran out of summers
But before he died, I asked him
Wait, what’s the sense in life?
Come over me, come over me

He said
Son, why you gotta sing that tune?
Catch a Dylan song or some eclipse of the moon
Let an angel swing and make you swoon
Then you will see, you will see

Then he said
Here’s a riddle for you
Find the answer
There’s a reason for the world
You and I

Picked up my kid from school today
Did you learn anything ‘Cause’ in the world today
You can’t live in a castle far away
Now talk to me, come talk to me

He said
Dad, I’m big, but we’re smaller than small
In the scheme of things, well, we’re nothing at all
Still every mother’s child sings a lonely song
So play with me, come play with me

And, hey, dad
Here’s a riddle for you
Find the answer
There’s a reason for the world
You and I

I said
Son, for all I’ve told you
When you get right down to the
Reason for the world
Who am I?

There are secrets that we still have left to find
There have been mysteries from the beginning of time
There are answers we’re not wise enough to see

He said
You looking for a clue
I love you FREE

The batter swings and the summer flies
As I look into my angel’s eyes
A song plays on while the moon is high over me
Something comes over me

I guess we’re big, and I guess we’re small
If you think about it, man, you know we got it all
‘Cause we’re all we got on this bouncing ball
And I love you free
I love you freely

Here’s a riddle for you
Find the answer
There’s a reason for the world
You and I

Hi Elie
I can relate to your experience. I suspect everyone’s experience with loneliness has much in common yet at the same time is unique to the personality experiencing it.  I think that means what works for one person won’t necessary work for another.

“Loneliness is a subjective experience that is different for every one of us. Some people define loneliness as a feeling of emptiness or isolation. Others define it as by the need for company or comfort. With these portrayals, there are people more prone to loneliness than others.”

I am one of those people prone to loneliness . I have found that understanding what I mean by Loneliness has helped but not made me less prone to loneliness.  For what its worth then

Think about what is making you feel lonely. Take the time to understand what it is that makes you feel lonely. Locate where this loneliness is coming from to help better understand what you need to do.

Six Types of Loneliness

1. New-situation loneliness. You’ve moved to a new city where you don’t know anyone, or you’ve started a new job, or you’ve started at a school full of unfamiliar faces. You’re lonely.

2. I’m-different loneliness. You’re in a place that’s not unfamiliar, but you feel different from other people in an important way that makes you feel isolated. Maybe your faith is really important to you, and the people around you don’t share that — or vice versa. Maybe everyone loves doing outdoor activities, but you don’t — or vice versa. It feels hard to connect with others about the things you find important. Or maybe you’re just hit with the loneliness that hits all of us sometimes — the loneliness that’s part of the human condition.

3. No-sweetheart loneliness. Even if you have lots of family and friends, you feel lonely because you don’t have the intimate attachment of a romantic partner. Or maybe you have a partner, but you don’t feel a deep connection to that person.

4. No-time-for-me loneliness. Sometimes you’re surrounded by people who seem friendly enough, but they don’t want to make the jump from friendly to friends. Maybe they’re too busy with their own lives, or they have lots of friends already, so while you’d like a deeper connection, they don’t seem interested. Or maybe your existing friends have entered a new phase that means they no longer have time for the things you all used to do — everyone has started working very long hours, or has started a family, so that your social scene has changed.

5. Untrustworthy-friends loneliness. Sometimes, you get in a situation where you begin to doubt whether your friends are truly well-intentioned, kind, and helpful. You’re “friends” with people but don’t quite trust them. An important element of friendship is the ability to confide and trust, so if that’s missing, you may feel lonely, even if you have fun with your friends.

6. Quiet-presence loneliness. Sometimes, you may feel lonely because you miss having someone else’s quiet presence. You may have an active social circle at work, or have plenty of friends and family, but you miss having someone to hang out with at home — whether that would mean living with a roommate, a family member, or a sweetheart. Just someone who’s fixing a cup of coffee in the next room, or reading on the sofa.

I wish you well