Murtaza you are so certain in your doubt and contradictions.  Your replies constantly asking for definition and often suggest a move to philosophy even spiritual practice which are then quickly rejected.   You dislike the idea discovering that others have already had similar thoughts and ideas as your as you must be unique. Yet nothing is new under the sun.

You appear to be at constant war with yourself

Though first you have to define “yourself” cause i got no definition

If you say its your nature, basic needs, dreams and desires, i wouldn’t agree, because i don’t like to be told who to be, or what to be, i will be an animal in people eyes, just because i want to, now the good question would be, why? Why i want such thing? Is this why can be changed? No, why? Cause the person having this, sees no problem with it, what else to do then? Tell me, peter, whats the next logical step? .

You make my point as your reply is a contradiction: ‘I’ want change, ‘I’ cant change, ‘I’ don’t want to change.  The ‘I’ does not exit, the self does not exit??? Only you can define the word self, and I will assume you will do so to make it small and refuse to allow the word to be transparent and expansive.

We are smaller then small and bigger then big, – As above so below, As below so above – the riddle of the philosopher’s stone can only be answered by the one asking it. Who are you? What is the self? What is this ‘I’ that forces its way into any dialog of experience? Who had the experience, What had the experience?  ‘I’  not the ego, not thoughts, not emotions, not even experiences, only a means to communicate.

You desire dialog while determined not to look past your certainties,

I have no certainties, only doubts, lots and lots of doubts, about everything and anything, a never ending doubt.

Your responses in all the posts you’ve written have never verified. I can only conclude that that is only possible when someone is certain in their answers in order to banish doubts. I imagine you only imagine you have doubts.  So where is your doubt?

A person that can accept the reality that nothing is certain and learns to embraces doubt would not experience so much existential angst. Perhaps that is the next ‘logical’ step – practice embracing the doubt you assume your living in.

I was thinking about what I said about the relation of  fear, courage, doubt, and faith. That faith is that something you lean on when you don’t know, aren’t certain and doubt.  Anyone who has not given in to death leans on something even if they don’t know what. You mentioned curiosity. I like that. Curiosity,  something around the corner my attract our attention, even surprise… Curiosity, maybe the next moment will be different. I often lean on that in dark uncertain moments and wonder if that is not a kind of faith.

Curiosity, I think implies hope, even skillful hope…I  know your going to hate that and being at war with yourself imagine that you will refuse to associate hope with curiosity. If choice is possible, perhaps that is one, even a next step. If ‘its’ all illusion pick a good one.

If i could format my brain, to be a normal person with normal thinking, with normal beliefs and values, i would, but i also won’t allow this, with my current brain, if there is a place that make you like that, a place where they torture you to change your beliefs and values, to make you normal, i just hope that such place, will have garnered results, my mind doesn’t like doubt, it would be worth it though, to have your basic needs met, just this, i just eant this.

I don’t know what it feels like to have this, maybe its just a fantasy, just another illusion,

Probably a illusion.

You appear to be at constant war with yourself. If I could change my brain I would… but I won’t allow this. You won’t allow this, it can’t be done anyway and you don’t want to.  You want relationship but only on your terms which isn’t relationship.   You desire dialog while determined not to look past your certainties, certainties that close the door to dialog.  You have a tendency to say  you want what you don’t want…  You seem unaware that your tendency is to push and pull at the same time and then act surprised when you didn’t get anywhere.

Your certainty as to what is “Normal” is often insulting… I imagine your reply that only a normal person would think that.
Your life philosophy is contradiction and unskillful even if reasoned or illusion.

Fear is to courage as doubt is to Faith – Faith not necessary in a higher power but what you lean on in times of doubt and uncertainty – That may be curiosity or Mind… though mind does not appear to be holding you up. It is understandable why you dislike (fear) doubt.

So honest with your self you lost sight of your self. A man of the five senses where only the objective is real even though the objective senses can only be experienced subjectively.  One half your world is real the other half denied expression.

You use words to define, contain and make things small.  For you I wonder if the map has not become the territory.

I don’t mean to me harsh, or maybe I do. I don’t know, it happens.

What is it you really expect from such dialog

Supertramp – logical song

When I was young, it seemed that life was so wonderful
A miracle, oh it was beautiful, magical
And all the birds in the trees, well they’d be singing so happily
Oh joyfully, playfully watching me
But then they send me away to teach me how to be sensible
Logical, oh responsible, practical
And they showed me a world where I could be so dependable
Oh clinical, oh intellectual, cynical

There are times when all the world’s asleep
The questions run too deep
For such a simple man
Won’t you please, please tell me what we’ve learned
I know it sounds absurd
Please tell me who I am

I said, watch what you say or they’ll be calling you a radical
Liberal, oh fanatical, criminal
Won’t you sign up your name, we’d like to feel you’re acceptable
Respectable, oh presentable, a vegetable
Oh, take it take it yeah

But at night, when all the world’s asleep
The questions run so deep
For such a simple man
Won’t you please tell me what we’ve learned
I know it sounds absurd
Please tell me who I am, who I am, who I am, who I am
‘Cause I was feeling so logical
D-d-digital
One, two, three, five
Oh, oh, oh, oh
It’s getting unbelievable

So many grammar issues in my post – it’s a vision thing – let me try again

Hi Murtaza

It takes a strong person to get help when they need it so well done. I watch my brother struggle with mental health issues, and I know its not easy.  Do you have access to talk therapy to go along with the medication assistance?  My brother found it helpful if only to accept that he needed the medication.

You are asking a question that often comes up with the practice of Buddhism and the concept of detachment. I recognize that in your case the detachment your experiencing isn’t the same as choosing to practice the art of detachment. I wonder though if an intentional practice of detachment might help?

A skillful practice of detachment is difficult, and my observation is that it often leads to the trap of indifference. If I’m detached from desire or an outcome why bother, what the point? Its not unusual to find that the more someone progress in the practice the more they tend to disengage with life.  I know that is a trap I often fall into.

The intention of the practice is to be fully engaged in life, as it is in the moment, without attaching expectations, fears, hopes. Such Attachments tend to be based on the past with the affect of projecting oneself into some imagined future.

What is the motivation to do things?  Life

Regardless of circumstances, regardless of like or don’t like, you’re it, where even a choice of not playing is playing.  Life does not care, (in the usual way we define care) though Life does push, even demand, growth and new life. (Which is a kind of care) It’s just that the ego desire is that we had control of the process and that it be painless. (Growth always involves something “dying” so painless isn’t going to happen. Life devours life for Life. Every creation is a destruction, every destruction a creation)

… I like watching movies and stories about mountain climbers. Have you noticed that 95 percent of the story tends to be focused on the struggle to get to the top, 1 or 2 percent about being on top with the remainder if any about the climb down and return to, what comes next… Happy ever after, we assume and don’t really wish to look further as the next story starts.   (As a metaphor the most important part of a journey is the return. To take back and apply what was learned. )

As a society we like the moment on the top, the gold metal. But you can’t live on top a mountain. Can you taste the conflict? Its the drama of the engagement with the struggle that pulls us into the story is the struggle, while the moment on the top is almost a bitter sweet one. At some level we know that the moment at the top doesn’t mean that much…

So which is it? The moment on top or the engagement that matters? When we tell our stories where do we spend the most time?

I enjoy watching the Olympics and like to hear the stories about what happened after the gold metal winners go home. After achieving that height, how well did they descend?  How many handled the descent as well as the assent? How many suffered depression? It seems to me that win or lose depression doesn’t care who to won or lost. In either case it is the ability to descend well that is a determining factor.

Is their choice here? I don’t know. I act as if there is. Its a work in progress… to engage in life as it is in the moment, saying Yes to Life as it is (A “knowing” that Life as it is, is Love) while detached from desire or outcome. Sounds like a contradiction but it isn’t.

Joseph Campbell when asked a question about meaning and purpose said that There was no point in asking the question when You are the answer.  Life does not give you meaning or purpose it is you, regardless of circumstance, that gives meaning and purpose to Life. So, play????

What is the motivation to do things without dopamine or reward?  What is the motivation to do things with dopamine with and without reward?

I suspect the answer may be the same. You’re writing the story,

I would like to say something about this idea of love being communicated.

When a relationship ends its common to hear someone say. “I don’t love you anymore”, – “you never did”…

Is it possible to end a relationship as a experience of Love?

Joseph Campbell* liked to tell this story of a samurai warrior, a Japanese warrior, who had the duty to avenge the murder of his overlord. After some time, the samurai found and cornered the man who had murdered his overlord. He was about to deal with him with his samurai sword, when this man in the corner, in the passion of terror, spat in his face. And the samurai sheathed the sword and walked away.

Whether the samurai kill the man as a act of honoring his code (his center of “being”), or anger the murder would be just as dead. However, this is not a story about the murderer nor is it a story about justice, mortality or even the code of the samurai. It is about acting from a place of ones “being”, ones truth, responding to life needs from ones authentic center.

If I say Love is the code from which I serve and respond to life, and someone has “murdered” – crossed a boundary that duty requires a response. It is possible to pursue that responsibility of accountability as an act of Love?

(I argue here that personal, social wellbeing… meaning, purpose, joy.. arise from a experience of being loved which cannot exist without the experience of getting to be accountable. That nothing we do or are could be experienced as mattering and or experienced as “being” loved without the experience of accountability for the “good” and the “bad”).

Love, accountability, responsibility, fear, hate, forgiveness, vengeance, justice, freedom… all have something in common. They all involve the setting boundaries. The question, from which do we draw on to build the boundary?

With regards to relationship, it might feel necessary to use the energy of anger to create the boundary to end a unhealthy relationship. Perhaps better to say ending contact, as that is also a kind of relationship?

The problem with creating a boundary using the energy of anger is that it burns and does not care what or who it burns. I would suggest that the boundary that ends a person relationship can be maintained from the energy of Love.  Ether way a boundary is created. It is possible to create the boundary without damaging the ‘code’ in order to fulfill the ‘duty required of the code’

It may seem to be a impossible paradox, as a seeming paradox words fail… here is a riddle to ponder

“Stillness is what creates love,
Movement is what creates life,
To be still, Yet still moving
– That is everything!” 
Do Hyun Choe

There is a time for everything even the creation of boundaries from a place of hurt that may not feel like love, yet it still may be.

From what I’ve observed Anita response to those seeking dialog always comes from a place of love even when healthy boundaries require a dialog relationship to end.

* Google Ep. 2: Joseph Campbell and the Power of Myth – interview with Bill Moyers

Here i am, no feelings, no desires, no goals, only consuming, like an animal, at least an animal doesn’t have awareness, the drugs has made me even more apathetic, more numb, i kinda like it, this is why i laugh at everything that happens to me, because its all just a big joke, all of this

Beautiful… agony, bitter sweet. I used to wonder how it was that I felt so much, that I felt nothing at all? Why is it that the Buddha is most often pictured laughing?   “Dad I’m big but we’re smaller than small, In the scheme of things, well we’re nothing at all, Still every mother’s child sings a lonely song, So play with me, come play with me”

It’s all a joke! Everything anybody ever valued or struggled for… it’s all a monstrous, demented gag! So why can’t you see the funny side? Why aren’t you laughing? ― Alan Moore: Batman: The Killing Joke

“We are living in a culture entirely hypnotized by the illusion of time, in which the so-called present moment is felt as nothing but an infinitesimal hairline between an all-powerfully causative past and an absorbingly important future. We have no present. Our consciousness is almost completely preoccupied with memory and expectation. We do not realize that there never was, is, nor will be any other experience than present experience. We are therefore out of touch with reality. We confuse the world as talked about, described, and measured with the world which actually is. We are sick with a fascination for the useful tools of names and numbers, of symbols, signs, conceptions and ideas.” ― Alan Wilson Watts  – “The universe is the game of the self which plays hide and seek for ever and ever.” Come Play with me

Most Conflict, inner and outer, has nothing to do with the present. It is always about the past or the future. We can’t agree on the details of what has happened or is going to happen. We desire certainties… but memory is a trickster, a work in progress, ever changing and we never know what is going to happen.  What is really in dispute is how we will deal with not knowing… For my part I prefer the gift of doubt

• This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by Peter.

This close to the experience it may be difficult to detach the emotions from the analysis of the experience and learn from it.  Detachment here does not mean not feeling the emotions you have only that you avoid attaching your sense of self to them. We have emotions we are not our emotions. We have experience’s we are not our experiences. (That can be a hard one to grasp, as its all to easy to define ourselves and or be defined by a single experience. )

You are not a ‘bad’ person because you feel bad or have done hurtful things to others. We all struggle and we all hurt the ones we care about most sometimes. Relationships are a crucible which will revel our best and worst qualities.  Shadow work (often projected onto the other) and mindfulness can help us separate the things that belong to us and the things that belong to our partner. Forgiveness, accountability, responsibility… are all tools that help us develop the ability to learn better, and learning better do better.

Sadly its a reality that it is often the pain of a relationship ending the pushes us to do the work that might have saved the relationship.

My experience and observations is that their is a tipping point when the past of a relationship becomes so heavy that only those where both those involved have truly learned to know themselves AND a have developed the art of Forgiveness AND have above, above average ability to communicate can over come. (Depending on those factors (and others) every relationship has a different tipping point that love, as understood in that experience, cannot over come. )  Love pushes towards life and growth, when the tipping point has been reached, LOVE may require a relationship to end if only to push us.

Their is a lot to unpack in your post, a lot that you might learn from. Keep writing. Keep a look out for your victim and villain story’s. These types of stories can shine a light on our own projections and fears, areas that might require work.

Other questions you might ask. Where in the relationship did you feel safe? Did you react or respond to you partner when you felt unsafe?  How so? How did your partner respond or react to you when they felt unsafe? Where your boundaries healthy ones?  How many of your boundaries were defined by fear and how many maintained by love? (Using the energy of fear and anger to maintain boundaries may be easier then using the energy of love. At least that has been my experience. )

I wish you well on your journey. Its sounds so odd… but LOVE opens the door to being able to be grateful for the very things you wished never happened.

From a interview of Stephen Colbert

“…he is the youngest of eleven kids and … his father and two of his brothers, Peter and Paul, the two closest to him in age, were killed in a plane crash when he was 10.”

“I learned to love the thing that I most wish had not happened.”

I asked him if he could help me understand that better, and he described a letter from Tolkien in response to a priest who had questioned whether Tolkien’s mythos was sufficiently doctrinaire, since it treated death not as a punishment for the sin of the fall but as a gift. “Tolkien says, in a letter back: ‘What punishments of G_d are not gifts?’ ”

Colbert knocked his knuckles on the table. “ ‘What punishments of G_d are not gifts?’ ” he said again. His eyes were filled with tears. “So it would be ungrateful not to take everything with gratitude. It doesn’t mean you want it. I can hold both of those ideas in my head.”

He was 35, he said, before he could really feel the truth of that. He was walking down the street, and it “stopped me dead. I went, ‘Oh, I’m grateful. Oh, I feel terrible.  I felt so guilty to be grateful’. But I knew it was true.

“It’s not the same thing as wanting it to have happened,” he said. “But you can’t change everything about the world. You certainly can’t change things that have already happened.”

Consider that this is coming from a man who millions of people will soon watch on their televisions every night—if only there were a way to measure the virality of this, which he’ll never say on TV, I imagine, but which, as far as I can tell, he practices every waking minute of his life.

The next thing he said I wrote on a slip of paper in his office and have carried it around with me since. It’s our choice, whether to hate something in our lives or to love every moment of them, even the parts that bring us pain. “At every moment, we are volunteers.”