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PeterParticipant
Its sounds like you’re depressed and or experiencing an existential issue… (Which comes first the chicken or the egg) It also sounds like you have lost touch with your sense of self (boundaries of who you are)
I’ve been there and wish I had a magic answer.
One thing people are going to tell you is that you just have to get up and do something. Don’t overthink it just do it. They are correct, change will require you to get up and do something, however that’s kind of like asking a man with broken legs to just get up and run.
You will need some space to heal
If you can afford it I might recommend professional help. A third party to talk to without worry about judgments so that you have a space where you can hear yourself and perhaps understand what is happening.
There are also a lot of books about creating healthy boundaries that might help you get started.
Boundaries define us. They define what is me and what is not me. A boundary shows me where i end and someone else begins, leading me to a sense of ownership. Knowing what I am to own and take responsibility for gives me freedom. Taking responsibility for my life opens up many different options. Boundaries help us keep the good in and the bad out. Setting boundaries inevitably involves taking responsibility for your choices. You are the one who makes them. You are the one who must live with their consequences. And you are the one who may be keeping yourself from making the choices you could be happy with. We must own our own thoughts and clarify distorted thinking.
Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life by Henry Cloud
- This reply was modified 8 years ago by Peter.
PeterParticipantI found the following book helpful when I asked myself the same question after a simmilar experiance.
How to Be an Adult in Love – Letting love in Safely and Showing it Recklessly by David Richo“We were made to love and be loved. Loving ourselves and others is in our genetic code. It’s nothing other than the purpose of our lives—but knowing that doesn’t make it easy to do. We find it a challenge to love ourselves. We might have a hard time letting love in from others: recognizing it, accepting it. We’re often afraid of getting hurt. It is also sometimes scary for us to share love with those around us—and love that isn’t shared leaves us feeling flat and unfulfilled.
“I now understand that all the people I have ever known have come into my life to teach me about love. I am coming to trust that every moment of affection I received has been carefully recorded in me, ready for playback. The love I received from others shows me how to love those who need it from me. This is how the people who loved me have helped write this book.
Specific memories also come through about how much people have had to put up with from me. What did they see in me that made them stick with me when I was so damned afraid to return their love? Maybe they saw something lovable in me that I need to see in myself. Their uninterrupted love also helps me trust that I must have shown more love than I give myself credit for.”
― David Richo, How to Be an Adult in Love: Letting Love in Safely and Showing It Recklessly“The grace in dark events does not emerge magically. It can happen only when we join in the forward movements of grace and march into them fully. Then we more easily resurrect ourselves from our catastrophes. Thus, grace is a gift potential in what happens. When it offers itself, it is up to us to take advantage of that offering. We begin to do this when we give up being victims of circumstance, when we honestly ask: “What can I make of what happened? How can I work with this event so that it opens me to something new? How can this serve me and others?” Part of getting to this point is cultivating the trusting attitude “If it happened, it must hold an opportunity.” As Benjamin Franklin said: “The things that hurt instruct.” ― David Richo
“When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two. —NISARGADATTA MAHARAJ”
October 25, 2016 at 11:33 am in reply to: My parent's are divorcing and my mother had an affair… #118891PeterParticipantI am worried that I am being reactive by asking for space.
To my way of thinking asking for space is neither fight, flight or freeze so not reactive.
Creating some space it probably a wise response as is seeking help in order to work through this.
PeterParticipantIn the past during a crucial conversations I tend to imagine I knew what the other person intention was behind the words they were saying. Making up stories the generally upset me while very rarely asking them if what I imagine is was true.
One of the Principle of Charity states that if an interaction can be interpreted in several ways and that we cannot or have no intention of determining which interpretation is true then we should chose the interpretation that is most positive and upsets us less.
PeterParticipantNothing is worse than overthink the problem of over thinking
I very much admire those that trust themselves enough or maybe just out of blissful unawareness or innocents are able to step out of comfort and leap into the unknown.
That unfortunately is not who I am. Through nature and nurture I need to plan and know just want I want to do. And like you I fear that even if I do manage such a leap I will bring my own insecurities with me.
Whatever you decide to do you are going to take yourself along and so will eventually have to deal with your stuff.
My advice for what it’s worth is to talk over these feelings you have with a professional you can trust so you might clarify them. A third party who being natural can reflect back to you what you’re really saying and thinking.
PeterParticipantI have found that when we find ourselves repeating a specific scenarios of interaction with someone it often means that at some subconscious level both parties are attempting to heal a past hurt.
My opinion is that the only way to break out of the pattern is effective communication which unfortunately becomes so difficult when the issue is between families and talking doesn’t feel safe.
The following is an example of a self-defeating loop when real issue is something happening behind the words.
“Let’s say that your significant other has been paying less and less attention to you. You realize he or she has a busy job, but you still would like more time together. You drop a few hints about the issue, but your loved one doesn’t handle it well. You decide not to put on added pressure, so you clam up.
Of course, since you’re not all that happy with the arrangement, your displeasure now comes out through an occasional sarcastic remark. “Another late night, huh? I’ve got Facebook friends I see more often.”
Unfortunately (and here’s where the problem becomes self-defeating), the more you snip and snap, the less your loved one wants to be around you. So your significant other spends even less time with you, you become even more upset, and the spiral continues. Your behavior is now actually creating the very thing you didn’t want in the first place. You’re caught in an unhealthy, self-defeating loop.”
― Kerry Patterson, Crucial Conversations Tools for Talking When Stakes Are HighHow to break the cycle from crucial conversations.
– Learn to Look
– Make It Safe
– Master My Stories
– Mutual Purpose
– Six Styles Under Stress
– Start With Heart
– Work On Me FirstPeterParticipantWhat to expect from a life partner
– That they will challenge your relationship to the idea of relationship and love.
– That they will challenge how you think and feel you are.
– That they will disappoint you (you will disappoint them)
– That they will surprise you (you will surprise them)
– That they will attempt to heal past hurts through the relationship as you will attempt to heal the past hurts.
– That they will bring out the best and the worst of you – and you will bring out the best and worst in them
– That they will at times inspire you to be more then you thought you could be and at times hold you back.
– That they will be something to push against so that you might grow.A healthy relationship learns to cultivate an “unconditional yes” to these realities and in doing so create the potential where each might become. This love is not an unconditional yes is not a unconditional allowing but an awareness that creates space were we may respond to our partners instead of reacting.
The other day I was asked what quality I looked for in a partner. I surprised myself when at the top of the list I stated someone who did not panic when they were not experiencing the ideal of love and connection that they imagined.
“The perfect partner is often the one who triggers off our core emotional wounds so that we can revisit and mend our past injuries. The reopening of our old hurts allows us to name, understand, and tend to original, yet often faulty and self-defeating, beliefs about interpersonal attachment and identity. It is inevitable that our unmet needs from childhood, which influence both our style of intimacy and our self-image/self-worth, will be played out in the crucible of our current intimate connections.”
- This reply was modified 8 years ago by Peter.
PeterParticipantI cannot speak to your past relationship and why it didn’t progress as you hoped and dreamed.
I feel that there is a time to work out what happened in past relationships however there is a danger if the focus gets stuck on who did what to who and maybe if only I did this or didn’t do that.
This type of focus tends to keep us stuck in the past of pain, blame, negative self talk and hurt.
I do not mean to downplay the hurt and betrayal you have experienced, however if I’m reading your story correctly the marriage relationship is over and so what matters now is you and who you are and who you hope to become.
When the time is right and perhaps some distance created so that you might better be able to see an honest evaluation of your past experiences and how they impacted you will help you move forward… just be careful of getting suck replaying the past.
When the Past Is Present; Healing the Emotional Wounds That Sabotage Our Relationships – David Richo
A touching fact about us is that we seem hard-wired to replay the past, especially when it includes emotional pain or disappointment. We tend to go through life simply casting new people in the roles of key people, such as our parents or past partners with whom there is still unfinished business. This phenomenon, called transference, is unconscious. What we transfer are feelings, needs, expectations, defenses, fantasies, beliefs, and attitudes. Transference can be our way of telling the untold story inside us. We can learn to notice clues about how our past is still very much alive in our present relationships. In this book, we also find practices to help us clear up our old business and form healthy relationships that no longer have to replicate the past. Then authentic intimacy can bloom.
PeterParticipantWe hurt so we can learn to do things differently to change to improve. Everything can’t all be good.
Unconditional love says yes to the reality it is all good even the bad. That is not a paradox
It is through the confrontation of the experience of the problem of opposites, such as the concept good and bad, that creates consciousness and so the possibility of awaking. In such a perspective all that we experience is and originates from Love.
When observed from different planes of experience judgments and labels such as good and bad are temporal and illusion. If one accepts/allows that Life is and of itself is Good then all experiences can be a experience of Unconditional Love.
It is unfortunate that for many to live and stand up for there truths they generate the energy to do so from hate, rage, and ugliness. As you say emotions of anger, fear, even hate serve a purpose. I believe that purpose is to awaken us that something is not as our truths indicate they should be and that we must act however that does not mean that such action be ugly, anger, rage… But this failure to part of the whole and so Love
PeterParticipantI think we need to be careful when we talk about unconditional love as based on my observation many people interpret that as unconditional allowing.
In such a understanding unconditional love can become a hell of a condition to place on love.
For me I unconditional love means saying yes to the person as they while living my fate/truth as they must live theirs, respecting and when required defending boundaries theirs and mine. That doing so is an act of unconditional love even when the other does not experience it as love.
Very much recommend The Art of Forgiving by Lewis B. Smedes
PeterParticipantIn Quantum physics you have the theory of entanglement which predicts that two or more particles can become “entangled” so that even after they are separated in space, when an action is performed on one particle, the other particle responds immediately.
The hermetic principle of vibration also suggest a link to empathy, how we are influenced and how we influence. For example the experience of being at an event like a concert when everyone feels as if they are in sync… In hermetic principle every effect must have a cause however a cause may exist through change in vibration/plane of experience which we may experience as a moment Synchronicity.
Synchronicity – experiences to which a cause cannot be identified – “meaningful coincidence”, and “acausal parallelism.” Events may be connected by causality, they may also be connected by meaning. Events connected by meaning need not have an explanation in terms of causality.
Synchronicity may be the only way in which we are able to exercise free will the paradox being that doing so requires the art of doing by not doing as any intention of control would invoke filters and filters are always influenced by external wills.
It is also important to remember that we are only able to experience the world consciously through the sense of ‘I and me’ which is greatly influenced by the memory of our experiences. We might call these the filters look through as we experience the present. Thus the present moment is seldom seen clearly and so contains elements of illusion.
In Science they might relate this to this the law of uncertainty and the observer effect. The filters through which we observe something changes what we see and experience.
Likewise the experience of empathy will be influenced and changed though the filters, memories, experiences of the observer.
My opinion is that it is possible to know what someone else is experiencing and feeling however it would take a great deal of discernment and self-awareness to separate the observer from the observed and avoid wishful thinking
A person could spend life time’s dismantling and removing the filters through which consciousness experiences life through.
October 21, 2016 at 12:03 pm in reply to: Still I hope … How I do get over this and move on. #118646PeterParticipantAs a guy I can tell you that when a guy does the on again off again relationship such as you describe it usually comes from a place of insecurity. This type of relationship can be about power and maintain a safe backup in case he finds something better. Such people might also struggle with valuing what they have, preferring the chase to the having.
One of the purposes of relationships is to heal the past and so both parties create and play out scenarios that there authentic self is attempting to come to terms with and heal. This is almost always subconscious and too often create the codependent relationship. Such scenarios will continue until they are solved.
Statistically the on again off again relationship do not mature. My own rule of thumb is three cycles and its over. And over means no contact. You may not like hearing this but ending a relationship with no contact may just be required for the healing of the past the authentic self was trying to solve.
With regards to Hope, Hope is a skill to often practiced badly that when passive, keeps the hopeful stuck.
There are times when hope can be dangerous as in holding onto the idea that an expired relationship may yet again find footing and there are times when hope is essential such as when it keeps us from drowning in despair.
“To hope means to be ready at every moment for that which is not yet born, and yet not become desperate if there is no birth in our lifetime. Erich Fromm
Doing Active Hope – Joanna Macy and Chris Johnstone
The word hope has two different meanings. The first involves hopefulness, believing our preferred outcome is reasonably likely to happen. If we require this kind of hope before we commit ourselves to an action, our response gets blocked in areas where we don’t rate our chances too high.The second meaning is about desire. It is this kind of hope that starts our journey — knowing what we hope for and what we’d like, or love, to take place. It is what we do with this hope that really makes the difference. Passive hope is about waiting for external agencies to bring about what we desire. Active Hope is about becoming active participants in bringing about what we hope for.
Active Hope is a practice. Like tai chi or gardening, it is something we do rather than have. It is a process we can apply to any situation, and it involves three key steps. First, we take in a clear view of reality; second, we identify what we hope for in terms of the direction we’d like things to move in or the values we’d like to see expressed; and third, we take steps to move ourselves or our situation in that direction.
Since Active Hope doesn’t require our optimism, we can apply it even in areas where we feel hopeless. The guiding impetus is intention; we choose what we aim to bring about, act for, or express. Rather than weighing our chances and proceeding only when we feel hopeful, we focus on our intention and let it be our guide.
PeterParticipantRelationship is a crucible where we discover who we are. – We are wounded in relationship and we heal through relationship…
We are hurt by those closest to us because they are closest to us. I cannot comment of the hurt you have experienced from your partner and it is no my intention to discount that experience of hurt.
When I read your post, between the lines, I heard a longing for authentic relationship with another and so it is my intention that the following quotes might help you use this experience as a doorway to becoming.
“The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed.” ― C.G. Jung
“Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves.” ― C.G. Jung
“The foundation of adult trust is not “You will never hurt me.” It is “I trust myself with whatever you do.” ― David Richo
“When we feel unsafe with someone and still stay with him, we damage our ability to discern trustworthiness in those we will meet in the future.”
― David RichoYou may find the following article helpful
http://www.elizabethstrazar.com/site/Suggested_Reading_&_Articles_files/StagesofRelationship.pdf
“The perfect partner is often the one who triggers off our core emotional wounds so that we can revisit and mend our past injuries. The reopening of our old hurts allows us to name, understand, and tend to original, yet often faulty and self-defeating, beliefs about interpersonal attachment and identity. It is inevitable that our unmet needs from childhood, which influence both our style of intimacy and our self-image/self-worth, will be played out in the crucible of our current intimate connections.”
Understanding the stages of a relationship helps us to map the territory and gain more insight into how to utilize intimate connections as a pathway toward personal healing. In essence, how to choose the healing salve more often than not – Elizabeth Strazar
Very much recommend David Richo book, How to Be an Adult in Relationships: The Five Keys to Mindful Loving
“As long as you hold onto wanting something from the outside, you will be dissatisfied because there is a part of you that you are still not totally owning. . . . How can you be complete and fulfilled if you believe that you cannot own this part [of yourself ] until somebody else does something? . . . If it is conditional, it is not totally yours. —A. H. ALMAAS” David Richo
“Most people think of love as a feeling but love is not so much a feeling as a way of being present.” David Richo
“The more invested I am in my own ideas about reality, the more those experiences will feel like victimizations rather than the ups and downs of relating. Actually, I believe that the less I conceptualize things that way, the more likely it is that people will want to stay by me, because they will not feel burdened, consciously or unconsciously, by my projections, judgments, entitlements, or unrealistic expectations.” David Richo
“We can actually reconstruct our past by examining what we think, say, feel, expect, believe, and do in an intimate relationship now.” David Richo
PeterParticipantA dance instructor I had once talked about learning how to accept that were you were, which foot or position you were currently in, was the correct position from which to move from.
Obvious right. I mean it’s not like you can magically shift weight onto the other foot without shifting your weight to the other foot. The only place you can move from is from the position you are in and so that position must be the correct place to be in for whatever comes next.
Yet how many of us get stuck by the thinking that where we are is not the right place to move from. (Even as we move)
You might argue this is a matter of semantics and or form of positive thinking but I don’t think it is.
By accepting the reality that you can only move from where you are and so where you are is the best place from which to move creates space to move more freely.
I know this realization does not help in answering the question of what the next move should be and look like. However when I accepted this truth in my dancing whatever did come next tended to be more graceful. Without the tension I was creating about being in the wrong position the next position flowed as part of the dance and music I chose to dance to.
Have you thought of getting back into one of your creative activates as a form of alchemy/Zen practice?
- This reply was modified 8 years ago by Peter.
PeterParticipantSorry if the above is confusing. It’s something I’m still trying to work out and the limitation of language tends to get in the way of how I experience love intuitively.
I do have a last question.
What if ‘Loving others as ourselves’ isn’t only a command but the reality of how we love?
That how we love others IS how we love ourselves and that for the most part we don’t really know how to love ourselves very well?
- This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by Peter.
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