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PeterParticipant
Sorry to be a naysayer
My opinion for what it’s worth – move on.By all means be upfront with him about what you want, but be honest, you don’t just want to be friends.
Any “lets be friends” conversation will likely be interpreted as you wanting something more anyway.Ask for what you really want and be ok with the answer. Yes or no
If you settle for maybe, “lets be friends” in all likelihood he is going to open and close this crack in the door over and over again and your worth more then that.
The end is in the beginning.
- This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by Peter.
PeterParticipantSo what is Change? Everything changes but stays the same.
To “make America Great Again” is that a change or a regression?
As a call to return to some “magical” past would it not me more correct to call it a regression. But regression is also a change, if illusionary, as you “can’t step in the same river twice”. We fight to hold a moment that no longer exitsThe only thing that never changes is change which means everything stays the same but, perhaps as Nina points out, it is our perception of what we see that changes. The reality was always there we just never notice it and till we do, if always incompletely.
Gnosticism has always fascinated me as it is based on Gnosis, the knowledge of transcendence arrived at by way of interior, intuitive means. Yet the moment such knowing is codified and taught to others as the way such teaching is no longer Gnosis. I view Gnosis as an individual experience that might intuit change but not create it.
I’ve been reading quite about the Gnosis, Goddess, and shamanic cultures. One thing that I have noticed is that they were not able to stand up against the desert masculine god religions. I think that the reason is due to innovation. The above cultures are more likely to accept “life as it is” which has little energy for innovation and so easily overcome.
I see the current tension between the ‘liberal’ and ‘conservative’ movement in the same way. The conservative will always be more “innovative” in the ways of politics then the liberal
PeterParticipantI know you are correct Jeena
I’m just disappointed that the movement of awakening to this awareness changes so very little. The pendulum still must swing.
And this is the time of the shadow.PeterParticipantThank you all for all the responses.
I wrote the post after the US election and the disappointment I felt at seeing the American people fall under the influence of the shadow. Historically when nations give into the shadow it does not end well
It had been my hope that the movement of awakening consciousness would have rallied and point to a better way. Instead I saw the movement rendered helpless, we would not change and history will repeat itself. Worse I saw no energy to engage.
I understand that the principle of polarity and rhythm are realties of nature and that light changes to dark through the swing of the pendulum and that this realty are attributes of love as light and dark are not opposites but part of each other. Still I had hope.
I read the posts on the site and am equally discouraged as I hear story after story of people repeating there history in hopes of this time for sure things will change.
I am discouraged
Does accepting the world as it is, life as it is, mean we stop standing up for our truths as we understand them in the moment. Yes open to learning to do better when we know better but still be must stand.
Its sounds like a contradiction to simultaneously stand for your truths and act while at the same time accepting life as it is and that the present is exactly where it is meant to be. This is love
Only I’m not sure it worth it anymore.
Today is Remembrance Day. We remember so that we don’t repeat past horrors and yet as the services end and the people walk away we do forget.
I apologies for the rambling and what likely sounds like babble. I know what it is I want to say but seldom know how to say it.
I am disappointed that Love does not conquer all as the bitter and sweet, light and the dark are also qualities of love. I just tired of being in a time of darkness.
Melanie you my find David Richo book – How to be an Adult in relationships helpful.
Our expectations on what love should look and feel like within committed relationships are often at odds and can get in the way of the intimacy you are seeking. We tend to keep looking for that something and because we are always looking miss the moments when we have it.PeterParticipantI have similar struggles with negative thoughts and measuring myself against what I imagine other people’s lives are.
One of the questions I had to wrestle with as i attempted to work through this problem was the question of love itself and what it would look like to ‘love’ myself. Like Joni Mitchell I discovered I didn’t know love at all – “I’ve looked at love from both sides now from give and take, and still somehow it’s love’s illusions I recall I really don’t know love at all”
So essentially I was trying to learn to love myself when I didn’t have a clear picture or idea… of this thing called love.
(Today for me the word love contains qualities of meaning, purpose, accountability, discipline, spontaneity, authenticity… which might at first glance qualities that might appear to contradict but they don’t.)When you say you don’t love yourself what would loving yourself look like?
I also noted your comment about losing your ego which was also part of the struggle.
In in the west we tend to over identify with our ego – I am my ego, I am what I do, I am the roles I play… While the east negation of the ego has when practice unskillfully I think leads to the loss of sense of self and lethargy. The submission to caste and fate is a natural outcome to the loss of connection to our I and me.By negation of my ego I could find peace of mind and being (is this love?) but only as long as I removed myself from interaction with life as it was. I noted even Gautama had to leave his family. As I need food and shelter I didn’t see how this was going to work.
It seems to me that what I call the ego was an import part of the whole of who I was and that my attempt to negate it was like cutting off an arm or a leg. Through mediation I understood my ‘I’, my sense of self was not my ego, I was not what I did for a living, I was not my thoughts… I noticed however that it was my sense of I through which I set intention and was the part of me that was conscious. What is aware? I am. Limited though the I is, it is the part of the whole that experiences..
I am not my consciousness yet it is though the I that the I become conscious.
I began to think of my ego not as a CEO or captain but a kind of librarian that filtered information and experience, a communication channel that connected the unconscious, memory, filters… to the conscious and from that intention.
Anyway maybe that doesn’t make any sense or matter…. It just that I know that I’m not alone that my unskillful desire to lose my ego left me feeling listless and disconnected from my experiences (defiantly not love)
The shift from no longer trying to negate my ego but accept my sense of I as playing necessary role in my experience of becoming has help me let go of the negative thinking associated with the labels (usually based on comparison to others) I have applied to myself.
I am not my ego, however my ego is a part of the whole that is me, my authentic self, and as such has value.
The ego wasn’t something I had to lose but acknowledge… and well lovePeterParticipantThe nature of change is that it happens slowly then all at once. What I means is that we tend not to notice the string of small causes and effects until we notice the moment that of the big effect.
You say “I have zero ability to change even small matters”. The irony being that making that statement is one of the small causes that isn’t being noticed. Will the statement push you forward or will it be one more brick in the wall of the effect that is stuckness.
Viewed in this light the statement “I have zero ability to change even small matters” can only be false as every breath you take every thought you have, though the impact may be small, effect change. The difference perhaps is between active and passive Do we write our stories or do our stories write us?
One of the ways we get stuck in our stuckness is to expect change to happen immediately and exactly as we imagine. Such hope for change is more likely to prevent us from seeing and so nurturing the small causes that might actually lead to the change that would get us unstuck.
I think to influence the change that we want we have to create space to notice the small causes and nurture those that point in the direction we want to travel – however at the same time always aware that the direction we think we should go might not be the best path to get there.
- “We must be willing to get rid of the life we’ve planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us” – Joseph Campbell
- We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. T. S. Eliot
When I read your post the word that came to mind was pause and then Claude Debussy quote “Music is the space between the notes”
When stuck in quick sand or a strong undertow the first step to getting out is to stop struggling.The first step in getting out of our stuckness is to remember to pause. The Pause is not simply an absence of content but intention that creates the content. Without the pause you would only have noise.
“In bullfighting there is an interesting parallel to the pause as a place of refuge and renewal. It is believed that in the midst of a fight, a bull can find his own particular area of safety in the arena. There he can reclaim his strength and power. This place and inner state are called his querencia. As long as the bull remains enraged and reactive, the matador is in charge. Yet when he finds his querencia, he gathers his strength and loses his fear. From the matador’s perspective, at this point the bull is truly dangerous, for he has tapped into his power.”
― Tara Brach, Radical Acceptance: Embracing Your Life With the Heart of a BuddhaStopping: How to Be Still When You Have to Keep Going by David Kundtz
PeterParticipantI also recommend the book ‘Learning to Fall’ by Philip Simmons for those fated to having to find the way out by going down.
Came across this Post which said what I was trying to say much better
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/permissiontolive/2012/07/learning-to-fall.html“Learning to Fall”. I came across this idea recently and it moved me. It’s from Philip Simmon’s book called “Learning to Fall”, and it is written from his perspective as a 35 year old husband, father and teacher diagnosed with a neuromuscular disease which killed him a few years later.
It’s the first time I have ever heard of “The Fall” as anything but this evil horrible disobedience of humanity that has led to all things that are wrong with the world. But it also speaks to me on a very basic level.
I used to think that being a Christian gave me this magic out. If I just lived the “right” way, and did all the “right” things, then life would be peaceful and calm, perfect as god was perfect. Whenever life was hectic, stressful, confusing or imperfect, I thought it was my fault. I just wasn’t being close enough to God.
As time has gone on since I took a break from my perpetual hamster wheel of trying to be close enough to God to be fixed from all my imperfection, I am slowly becoming OK with the imperfect.
I am a woman with an imperfect body, imperfect parenting abilities, imperfect housekeeping abilities, and imperfect relational knowledge. But even if I managed to make all of that perfect, it would still be impossible for me to control everything else. Like death, or illness, or loss of relationship. No matter how good I got at “standing on the solid rock” life was still out of balance.
And now, I’m OK with that. I’m learning to be OK with being unsteady, putting one foot in front of the other and stopping here and there to take a breath and catch my balance. I don’t have to pretend to have it all together anymore. Sometimes I am happy, sometimes I am not. Sometimes I am confident, sometimes I am depressed. Sometimes I feel beautiful, sometimes I don’t. And that doesn’t make me a bad or deficient person. Life throws curve balls. Life changes. Life isn’t always exactly what we planned. But, life is good, even though it isn’t perfect. In fact, all kinds of things are beautiful and good without being perfect. And in learning to be OK with falling, I’ve learned to be unashamed of getting back up. I’ve learned to embrace fear.
PeterParticipantSorry you’re having such a hard time.
I know when people say thinks like “it will get better” they mean well but often such statements come from their own need to believe it.It is not clear in your posts is your hope/prayer is passive or active. Passive hope can be destructive when it’s the type that waits for something to change. Perhaps magically, that if we just wish hard enough, pray hard enough things will change in the instant of our wishing.
The thing with change is that it is something that happens slowly and then all at once. Meaning we don’t tend to notice the little causes that have to happen before the effect is noticed. These little causes of changes could then already be taking place in your life.
Active hope is hope with eyes open, hope that seeks out those little causes and nurturing them till the day the hope is realized.
A part of the process of active hope is to refrain our experiences when we can. In your post you say everything has gotten worse and that you’re the type of person that a stranger can come to when they are in need. While you actively hope try paying more attention to this positive person who can be present to others. It’s a place to start.
The reality is we are all falling and have been since we took our first breath. How we fall, ah there is the trick. Arms and legs frantically flailing or like a sky diver, arms and legs spread out, enjoying the ride.
I am reminded of a story of a sparrow trapped in an empty grain silo frontally seeking out each ray of light that appeared through various cracks in the wall only to find they were not big enough to get through. Defeated the sparrow lays exhausted on the floor failing to notice the dark tunnel that if traveled would take it under the wall and out of the silo
There are those that find their way out seeking the light however for many the way out is not up but down.
The Art of Falling – by Kathryn Craft
“All Penny has ever wanted to do is dance—and when that chance is taken from her, it pushes her to the brink of despair, from which she might never return. When she wakes up after a traumatic fall, bruised and battered but miraculously alive, Penny must confront the memories that have haunted her for years, using her love of movement to pick up the pieces of her shattered life.”PeterParticipantAny other ideas on how to function like a normal human through this process?
Your experience of the “supernova” sounds pretty normal to me and I’m impressed with your intention to use the experience to grow with a focus on the positive.
There is a time for all things and perhaps by allowing the “supernova” experience to be normal and accepted as it is, for what it is, you will eventually have fewer of them and or that they not last as long.
Sometimes the simple act of noticing without self-judgment is enough for such moments to pass.
And sometimes… well finding a private corner somewhere and letting yourself feel everything, think everything, blame, cry, curse, grieve… all that stuff, well that that has it place. You just don’t want to get stuck there.
From what I read I don’t think you’re the type of person that will get stuck.
You’re very good at expressing yourself.PeterParticipantI believe that we become the stories we tell ourselves more often then we become the stories we write.
(There is a difference)The first thing that came to my mind when I read your post was cognitive distortion
Cognitive distortions are simply ways that our mind convinces us of something that isn’t really true. These inaccurate thoughts are usually used to reinforce negative thinking or emotions — telling ourselves things that sound rational and accurate, but really only serve to keep us feeling bad about ourselves.
I also recognize that sometimes we just need to get the kinds of thoughts you posted out.
Anyway If you aren’t only venting but want to work your way out of these thoughts you might want to examine what you are telling yourself for Cognitive distortion. Its a place to start.
Common distortions in the stories we tell ourselves
Filtering: We take the negative details and magnify them while filtering out all positive aspects of a situation. For instance, a person may pick out a single, unpleasant detail and dwell on it exclusively so that their vision of reality becomes darkened or distorted.Polarized Thinking: In polarized thinking, things are either “black-or-white.” We have to be perfect or we’re a failure — there is no middle ground. You place people or situations in “either/or” categories, with no shades of gray or allowing for the complexity of most people and situations. If your performance falls short of perfect, you see yourself as a total failure.
Overgeneralization: In this cognitive distortion, we come to a general conclusion based on a single incident or a single piece of evidence. If something bad happens only once, we expect it to happen over and over again. A person may see a single, unpleasant event as part of a never-ending pattern of defeat.
Jumping to Conclusions: Without individuals saying so, we know what they are feeling and why they act the way they do. In particular, we are able to determine how people are feeling toward us.
For example, a person may conclude that someone is reacting negatively toward them but doesn’t actually bother to find out if they are correct. Another example is a person may anticipate that things will turn out badly, and will feel convinced that their prediction is already an established fact.Catastrophizing: We expect disaster to strike, no matter what. This is also referred to as “magnifying or minimizing.” We hear about a problem and use what if questions (e.g., “What if tragedy strikes?” “What if it happens to me?”).
Personalization: Personalization is a distortion where a person believes that everything others do or say is some kind of direct, personal reaction to the person. We also compare ourselves to others trying to determine who is smarter, better looking, etc.
Control Fallacies: If we feel externally controlled, we see ourselves as helpless a victim of fate. For example, “I can’t help it if the quality of the work is poor, my boss demanded I work overtime on it.” The fallacy of internal control has us assuming responsibility for the pain and happiness of everyone around us. For example, “Why aren’t you happy? Is it because of something I did?”
Fallacy of Fairness: We feel resentful because we think we know what is fair, but other people won’t agree with us. As our parents tell us when we’re growing up and something doesn’t go our way, “Life isn’t always fair.” People who go through life applying a measuring ruler against every situation judging its “fairness” will often feel badly and negative because of it. Because life isn’t “fair” — things will not always work out in your favor, even when you think they should.
Blaming: We hold other people responsible for our pain, or take the other track and blame ourselves for every problem. For example, “Stop making me feel bad about myself!” Nobody can “make” us feel any particular way — only we have control over our own emotions and emotional reactions.
Shoulds: We have a list of ironclad rules about how others and we should behave. People who break the rules make us angry, and we feel guilty when we violate these rules. A person may often believe they are trying to motivate themselves with shoulds and shouldn’ts, as if they have to be punished before they can do anything.
Emotional Reasoning: We believe that what we feel must be true automatically. If we feel stupid and boring, then we must be stupid and boring. You assume that your unhealthy emotions reflect he way things really are — “I feel it, therefore it must be true.”
Fallacy of Change: We expect that other people will change to suit us if we just pressure or cajole them enough. We need to change people because our hopes for happiness seem to depend entirely on them.
Global Labeling: We generalize one or two qualities into a negative global judgment. These are extreme forms of generalizing, and are also referred to as “labeling” and “mislabeling.” Instead of describing an error in context of a specific situation, a person will attach an unhealthy label to themselves.
For example, they may say, “I’m a loser” in a situation where they failed at a specific task.Always Being Right: We are continually on trial to prove that our opinions and actions are correct. Being wrong is unthinkable and we will go to any length to demonstrate our rightness. For example, “I don’t care how badly arguing with me makes you feel, I’m going to win this argument no matter what because I’m right.” Being right often is more important than the feelings of others around a person who engages in this cognitive distortion, even loved ones.
Heaven’s Reward Fallacy: We expect our sacrifice and self-denial to pay off, as if someone is keeping score. We feel bitter when the reward doesn’t come.
PeterParticipantFor me, an introvert who was taught that other people’s needs came before mine the problem of self-esteem was a problem of how I imagined other people saw me. Through nature and nurture would judge myself on what I thought others thought of me and of course compare my life with how I imagine others’ lives are. Even if others told me I had value I imagined they were just being nice and didn’t mean it.
- I was allowing others, imagined others, to define my self-esteem.
You could say that my sense of self and self-esteem wasn’t based on who I was, the things I did, or the roles I took on but on imagination…. And my imagination sucked. Worse i discovered that apparently people, especially strangers, didn’t actually spend much time thinking about me or caring about my self-esteem that I was giving them power over.
One of the first steps in taking ownership of my self-esteem was coming to terms with what it meant to be an introvert in what I felt/feel is a extroverted world. To much of my self-esteem was tied to being ashamed of being a introvert and not being ‘outgoing’, exciting, a story teller, life of the party…
The following books were helpful as I learned the value of being an introvert and how it opened me to experience the world that could be helpful in my career and relationships.
QUIET: the Power of Introverts in a World that Can’t Stop Talking by Susan Cain
I had often been told that I “think too much” and should just accept the things I was told. When I talked about what I was thinking about, a problem I was working through, others heard it as being negative or pessimistic… yet I felt optimistic
Thinking about things is part of my nature as was working through problems by identifying issues and strategies for dealing with them. However these well intention influences were telling me not to me.
In The Positive Power of Negative Thinking by Julie Norem I realized that my thinking too much was not being negative but a strategy. I discovered I was an optimist that believed that when I looked at a problem and worked out the ways things might go wrong I could and would correct those issue and everything would work out. You don’t want a strategic extrovert building your bridges you want a defensive introvert.
I guess I’m saying that my sense of self-esteem improved when took ownership of of my nature and nurture. Instead of imagining who I was I worked at finding and examining my nature and nurture. How I do things had value, who I am has value.
I won’t lie I still dream of being the extrovert that everyone loves (I imagine loves) but at my core that’s not me. However that not being me does not have to have any bearing on my sense of worth..
Anyway I hope you well on your quest for self-esteem and it is a quest as only you can find it and in finding it take ownership of it.
Trust your quest and that it has value because it is your quest! Allow yourself to be the person you are, the good the bad and the ugly. Be you!
In the thirteenth-century legend Quest for the Grail, when the vision of the veiled Grail appears to the knights in Arthur’s banquet hall to summon them each to their quest of unveiling it, the knights decide to ride forth singly, for to go in a group would have been shameful. This is the point which Campbell – the greatest mythologist of this century – holds up as testimony to a new moral initiative that is of the essence of European spirituality.
When all the knights had put on their arms, attended Mass and expressed their gratitude to their king, they ‘entered into the forest, at one point and another, there where they saw it to be thickest, all in those places where they found no way or path …. So they start their journey as individuals, each trusting to their own authority and to the mysterious power of their calling. Jules Cashford
Follow your Path
“If you do follow your bliss you put yourself on a kind of track that has been there all the while, waiting for you, and the life that you ought to be living is the one you are living. Follow your bliss and don’t be afraid, and doors will open where you didn’t know they were going to be.” ― Joseph Campbell
“If you can see your path laid out in front of you step by step, you know it’s not your path. Your own path you make with every step you take. That’s why it’s your path.” ― Joseph Campbell
“As you proceed through life, following your own path, birds will shit on you. Don’t bother to brush it off. Getting a comedic view of your situation gives you spiritual distance. Having a sense of humor saves you.” ― Joseph Campbell
- This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by Peter.
October 30, 2016 at 3:25 pm in reply to: The PUA/Self Imrovement Community is making me depressed #119210PeterParticipantI found the following book helpful.
Wish I had read it when I was 22How to Be an Adult in Relationships: The Five Keys to Mindful Loving – by David Richo
“Most people think of love as a feeling,” says David Richo, “but love is not so much a feeling as a way of being present.” In this book, Richo offers a fresh perspective on love and relationships—one that focuses not on finding an ideal mate, but on becoming a more loving and realistic person. Drawing on the Buddhist concept of mindfulness, How to Be an Adult in Relationships explores five hallmarks of mindful loving and how they play a key role in our relationships throughout life:
1. Attention to the present moment; observing, listening, and noticing all the feelings at play in our relationships.
2. Acceptance of ourselves and others just as we are.
3. Appreciation of all our gifts, our limits, our longings, and our poignant human predicament.
4. Affection shown through holding and touching in respectful ways.
5. Allowing life and love to be just as they are, with all their ecstasy and ache, without trying to take control.When deeply understood and applied, these five simple concepts—what Richo calls the five A’s—form the basis of mature love. They help us to move away from judgment, fear, and blame to a position of openness, compassion, and realism about life and relationships. By giving and receiving these five A’s, relationships become deeper and more meaningful, and they become a ground for personal transformation.
PeterParticipantI could just play all relaxed like they appear to, or to just play dumb and not do things.
That maybe what is known as a Fool’s Choice – These are false dilemmas that suggest we face only two options (both of them bad), when in fact we face several choices.
You can live your truths as you know them, doing your job the best you can because that is who you are without judging, labeling, comparing or imagining how relaxed others appear to be in how they do there work. All this imagining seems to be the source of much of your frustrating.
This Afternoon I went for a walk to a local coffee shop. A man was nice enough to hold the door open for me however I was preoccupied and didn’t acknowledge him with a thank you. The man in an tone a voice that to me indicated annoyance let me know with a load “Your Welcome”
The man of course could not know I was thinking about my mother who had recently past and instead perhaps imagined I was being rude and would teach me manners by a reminder with the ‘Your Welcome”. Perhaps in that moment he needed validation… Of course in that moment I was also imagining I new what the man intention was.
I won’t lie a part of me was embarrassed for my failure at not being present and angry at the man for pointing it out. So we had a moment that was likely negative for both instead of a moment that was gracious for not real reasons
Maybe we were both right – I was being rude and he was only holding open the door to be noticed for his good manners.
But
What if the man could be happy holding open doors for others, not to be thanked, but because that was who he was?
What if I could be grateful for someone holding open a door for me even in those times I’m not fully present. why should we imagine we “knew” what the other intent was and so change a moment of grace into something elsePeterParticipantYou already know how this will play out if you push it.
This issue, if you want it to become a issue, is between your mother and brother. If you get involved the issue is between you and your mother and likely one that has been recreate in various ways for a while now.
There comes a time I think when we get to decided to accept family as they are and create our boundaries to protect our peace of mind while still being respectful to the relationship.
If who they are does not meet who you want and or need them to be then keep the visits short and talk of the weather… or continue creating drama trying to get them to be who you want them to be as they try to get you to be who they need and want you to be.
It is unlikely that you and your mother’s relationship is going to change. You can keep finding stories that keep your score higher and feeling good about your judgments or just stop and instead create some inner peace for yourself. Just stop
Is the drama worth it.
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