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SereneWolfParticipant
Hi Tee,
I combined the both parts of relationships…
Yes, I can imagine. If you believe that others will hurt you and that you can actually do pretty well alone, then sure, I see why you didn’t want to build relationships, not only romantic but friendships either, if I understood you well? Btw, did you have close friends as a child?
Yes only one but even with him there was different kind of communication mostly we would just play with each other and just talk about crazy ideas and we were both brilliant students.
Yeah, your lack of trust has developed gradually, with your parents (and I guess other adults too, like your grandfather?), in your childhood. And it remained a blueprint for how you view all other relationships. Even if you meet kind and loving people, your core belief (“I cannot trust people”) will be still working in your subconscious and will make you guarded and cautious.
I thought about it and I think it’s that feeling like unconditional love doesn’t exist so they must be need me for something that’s why they’re being nice.etc
Right. That means your intention is pure, and you have no expectations from the person to “pay you back”. Perhaps what you’ve experienced in your childhood is some kind of manipulation/transactionality, either on your own skin or in your family? That people would only help each other if they saw personal gain in it?
I guess I did hear things like that in my teenage like “people are just there for their means” and even I saw things like that in adult life too.
I guess that in that relationship too, you didn’t dare to show your own vulnerability, your own weaknesses, but you (actually both of you) were focusing mostly on her weaknesses, right? Like, she was the “project” that you were working on, and it wasn’t coming along well. And so you were getting frustrated, and she was feeling guilty etc etc.
Yes you put it in the right words. We did take it like a “project”
Even if you’d like to trust her, I think you still don’t trust her. Because the false core belief (“I cannot trust others”, or “Other people will hurt me”) is still active…
At friendship level I do trust lately I found that it’s really easy for me to make friends. I made two friends and much younger than me and both are quite understanding and mature and I’m trying to be more vulnerable with them since they don’t shy away to be vulnerable with me. But when it comes to romantic relationships that’s where trust is no more
Would to “let loose” mean to get “madly” in love, which means you’d become too distracted and not able to function properly?
It seems you believe that if you fall in love, you’ll be too vulnerable, too distressed, not focused enough, and they’ll be able to prevent you from even reaching your goals, your career goals etc. Like, that the person you love will prevent you from reaching your goals and dreams. Could it be it?
Kind of yes because I noticed that I always loved hard. I haven’t been taught to love in a soft way. And that’s why it hurts more too. That’s why just another day we were talking and I told my friend it’s better to be in serious relationship after I reach a certain life and career goals that I have.
I am just thinking… betrayal of trust can happen if we open up and show vulnerability, and the other person ridicules us, shames us or uses it against us. Or it can happen if they promise us something and never deliver. And I guess it can also happen if they shame us and criticize us all the time (like your father and my mother did), and we can never trust that they wouldn’t hurt us. I wonder if any of these reasons resonate with you?
Hmm I think “they promise us something and never deliver” this have happened many times in my previous relationship. But later on I told myself some people just don’t change why I’m giving too many chances.
What prompted you to do that?
Because I did started to like her and I got scared that what if I attached to her?
Are you still FWB, if I may ask?
Not really. We just had a meal together, went to the museum and a just cheek kisses.
As in: nothing is wrong with the girl, but you still don’t want it. At least this is what I’m hearing…
And that’s how fear works: it is irrational, it’s not based on our current reality, but on our old wounding. And it overpowers us…
I think yeah we can say that.
I hear what you’re saying, but it actually carries in itself a false belief: that if you focus on your career, you can’t be in a committed relationship. That those two are mutually exclusive. That love and career don’t mix, i.e. that they are in competition with each other. If that were true, then married people, or people in committed relationships, wouldn’t be able to have successful careers at all.
You do have a good point but where I come from it’s like a mindset like mostly on guys have the pressure to do something for women they don’t have high hopes or put pressure to be something like yeah she can always find a rich husband but a for a guy, he got to be something good. I do believe in equality but it’s the environment around me.
Actually, it might be a good exercise to journal about this: “If I fall in love, then….” Write down everything that comes to mind. What would you lose, or what kind of setbacks you believe you would experience if you fell in love. Maybe it will help you to get to the bottom of your fear…
Ohh that’s very good idea, Thanks! I’ll take time for this and write down and see what comes in my mind.
SereneWolfParticipantOkay, so you believe you need to achieve the same as someone else, and then if you don’t, you beat yourself up, you feel bad about yourself (I feel guilty), and then your performance gets even worse (I procrastinate a lot).
Comparison with others is something you were exposed to during your entire childhood: both your father and your grandfather were comparing you with other kids all the time, right? And now you are doing it to yourself. You’ve internalized your father and grandfather’s voice and it became a part of your inner critic. So comparing yourself to others is another way of telling yourself “I am not good enough/successful enough/rich enough/high on the ladder enough”.
That’s why you “feel like times is passing too fast” (the title of your thread) – because there is a pressure to perform, to achieve, to push, push, push… because someone else is doing it better and faster than you.
Would you agree with that?
Yes I agree with that and thanks for that reminder again. I need to write this down again because apparently I do need this same reminder repeatedly time to time.
Comparing ourselves to others is very toxic – it doesn’t motivate us but makes us feel like a failure. It’s not like a positive encouragement, but it always comes with a lot of self-judgment. And it eventually prevents us from thriving, because we feel like a failure, and so we self-sabotage.
So my suggestion is to stop the comparison. See it for what it is: a toxic feature of your inner critic, something you’ve learned from your father and grandfather.
There is a great youtube video “How to stop comparing yourself to others“, which just popped up in my feed, by Therapy in a nutshell. She says some fantastic things, e.g. that by comparing ourselves to others, we believe that our worth is dependent on how we score compared to others, how many people are above us or below us on the “ranking list”. And this always lead to disappointment because someone will always be better and more successful than us.
Bottom line: by comparing ourselves to others we are allowing our worth (which is inherent) to be dependent on external factors. And we are setting ourselves up for failure.
Yes! You’re right that’s why one of the reasons I’m using LinkedIn much less than before. Mainly for communication and network building. Because it would give me that “ranking list” pressure even more
A better approach, she says, is to focus on integrity (living in accordance to your true values) rather than comparison. Here is an example: if we want to lose weight, the comparison mindset would say “Oh, Martha is in a such a great shape. I have to lose weight already!” Whereas the integrity mindset would say “My health is important to me. I will cut down on junk food and exercise more, because I want to be healthy.”
I found this pretty cool: integrity mindset vs comparison mindset. Never heard it described this way, and loved it!
Anyway, just wanted to share this…
Thanks for the example I guess one way or another subconsciously I am comparing myself with others and I agree and “living in accordance to your true values” I did journal about this quite a while ago and I put lot of thought into that but so many things came up yet I still wrote it down. So I believe (not 100% sure) that my core values are Freedom, Simplicity, Honesty and Altruism…with added Open mindedness, Adventure, Wisdom, Faith and Inner peace. But how can I be sure what are my true values?
How have you been? I hope you are fine…
Well, Healthwise I’m doing alright but last week when I went for donate my blood, they gave me this report and told me that I have to gain my weight and hemoglobin %
And Idk what’s happening, because I’m rarely eating out and 99% of the time I’m having home cooked meals mostly full of green vegetables curries.
How about you? In your condition healthy food can make a difference?
SereneWolfParticipantBonjour Tee,
How are you doing?
First of all, I’m really happy because I finally got the job! And in sustainability sector, Something that I’m passionate about, And fully remote, and very well paid!
I’m just really grateful!!!Although because it’s been so damn long my mind just giving me doubts and fears even though I finally did it so I’m not able to celebrate it with all my senses!
Thank you for your understanding, you are very kind. I did feel guilty multiple times for not responding, but I felt so paralyzed. But when you wrote last week, I sort of woke up and told myself “come on, enough of this self-pitying, it’s time to reply!” So thank you, you helped me wake up from my slumber 🙂
Ohh Thanks I’m glad! You were and are still helping me throughout my mental health so at least I’m able to help a little haha
Thanks, yeah, those are some real challenges, both health-wise and career-wise. But yeah, I hope I’ll be able to keep defrosting 🙂
I understand but I think if you’ll fight with both it won’t be that effective imo. So what do you think what would happen if you only have choice to focus on one thing instead of both?
Oh, so you broke up? Would you like to share some more, like how it happened?
Well it’s not like we were in relationship to begin with… I was already trying to detach myself and spend much less time with her and then she got promoted and she had a choice of two cities and she chose another city. But we’re still in touch. We talk sometimes. And when she was in the city few weeks, we did spend some time together.
But I think you will only be ready once you heal those fears and lack of trust in people. So my advice is to work on your relationship fears as well, don’t just focus on your career. Because focusing only on your career is an avoidance strategy too. It’s easier for you. But it’s not helping, on the long-run…
Yes you’re right but the thing is career is like a important for financial security so obviously I’m gonna give priority to that. And just few days ago one of my friend told me something that really struck me. So when I moved to new place even there this stray cat started coming and I started feeding but it’s been more than 2 months and my friend asked me what did you named her?? I was like why name?? And then she was like you’re so scared of attachment you’re not giving cat a name! I’m not telling you possess her. You’re way into detachment.
And then I was thinking I’m practicing detachment because I have a fear of getting attached or it’s something else?
Yeah, I hear you. I know this dichotomy very well: on the cognitive level, you know you are good enough and you try to be positive. But deeper, emotionally, on the inner child level, you feel helpless and alone. And losing hope, sometimes. For me, this hopelessness and helplessness got activated with my back injury and other health issues. That triggered it, but I’ve realized this feeling was always in me, only I wasn’t aware of it. And now it came to the surface. And there is no other way but to tackle it…
I know right it’s like that underlying pain. And then that smile we trying to have feels kind of less genuine.
I’ve just dug up a youtube video on negative core beliefs, by my favorite online therapist, Barbara Heffernan. There is a link to the pdf file below the video, where she explains how to transform those beliefs. The video is titled “Core Beliefs CBT“. Highly recommended. I’ve just done the exercise in the pdf file, for transforming the core beliefs. Let me know if you’ve tried it.
Thanks for sharing I’ll watch it and let you know.
I am sorry you’re not seeing your therapist any more. Is she still having problems with her eyes?
Yes and recently grandson in the family so she’s giving all her time to daughter and lil baby.
No, I can’t think of myself as reckless. I don’t think my inner child ever wanted to be reckless 🙂 But it would be nice to “just do it”, without too much rumination. And I wouldn’t do reckless things, but good things, things that I love. So perhaps a curious child, enthusiastic child, would be a better fit 🙂 But thanks for the idea to involve my inner child in her “original form”, while she was still not frightened and stifled by my mother’s programming. I like it, I’ll see if it works…
Right! Enthusiastic and curious are better choice of words. Let me know if it works
Yes! Discovering our false beliefs and then counteracting them is super powerful. I’ve just learned from Barbara Heffernan’s video that our core beliefs don’t reside in our cognitive brain, but in our limbic brain. That’s why we can’t overwrite them by simply thinking positively. We need to dig deeper into our old emotional experiences and re-write them as well… and that’s what her method should help in.
Oh I see, That’s why it hasn’t been easy.
SereneWolfParticipantHi Tee,
I can imagine how excessive self-reliance is depleting you quickly. And then you blame yourself when you’re burnt out and haven’t succeeded in your (Herculean) task. You’re expecting a lot (too much) of yourself, you give yourself (too) big tasks, and then you’re putting yourself down when you don’t succeed. Would you agree with that?
I mean I don’t know if I’m expecting a lot and I might be comparing myself with others here like others are already doing it then I can do it too. So I tell myself it’s doable. Because I think some people are dealing with more things than me yet still reaching their goals and finishing tasks then I can do it too. And whenever I try to give excuses to myself about something I feel guilty and yet still lot of times I procrastinate a lot.
Yeah, your lack of trust has developed gradually, with your parents (and I guess other adults too, like your grandfather?), in your childhood. And it remained a blueprint for how you view all other relationships. Even if you meet kind and loving people, your core belief (“I cannot trust people”) will be still working in your subconscious and will make you guarded and cautious.
Yes, we can change our modus operandi. A part of it is changing our false core beliefs. Mine would be “I am helpless”. Yours would be “I have to rely on myself”.
I agree it makes me remember our conversation about old beliefs and I guess therapy did helped a bit but not very significant. And just I’m not seeing therapist anymore. I do try to journaling and work on removing my old beliefs and rooted fears. What kind of things that I can do to remove my old beliefs and rooted fears more efficient way? Kinda like rewiring our brain you know
Yeah, I think the key issue for my father was his own upbringing with a “martyr” covert narcissistic mother and him always suppressing his needs to trying to make his mother happy. That was what formed him. And my mother was a similar “martyr” (in her own eyes), though not narcissistic. But his dynamic was similar: trying to please and appease his mother, and later his wife. So there was no way he would stand up for himself. I mean, he did have success in his career, but he was pretty suppressed at home.
For your mother, she was perhaps financially dependent on your father as well, so that came into play as well? And the whole patriarchy thing, which I guess was still strong while you were growing up, right? So I can see why it might have been more difficult for her to standup for herself than it was for my father.
Ah similar because my mother is also suppressed at home. It’s not like before but still yeah. And yeah patriarchy thing is really strong in small village environment.
No, I don’t believe I am unworthy any more, but I still have a lot of procrastination when it comes to my career and the things I’d like to achieve. It’s like I am frozen a bit. And having all these health issues, and worrying about them, isn’t helping either: it makes me worry about it and ruminate and I end up feeling paralyzed. Like, I know what I want, but I am not working towards it.
It’s related to my childhood “freeze” I think, where my mother feared too much for me and was the happiest when I was by her side, in “safety”. Riding a bike was seen as risky by her, so my parents never bought me a bike and I never learned how to ride (I think I’ve told you that already). So it’s this “deep freeze”, deep fear of facing challenges.
Ah I see, I know it’s not easy for you but have you ever tried being a reckless child at this age? Like I don’t care what happens to me I want to do it means I want to do it. I guess because concerned and matured adult would think and ruminate a lot. Reckless child wouldn’t. and who knows you can get good results although it’s something really out of your comfort zone but something that you can try and feel like you got the power.
And once you got taste of that feeling I guess your fear and anxiety would slowly disappear.
Yeah, it seems your sense of not being good enough manifests in you pushing yourself above the limits, expecting too much of yourself (and believing you need to do it all by yourself). Whereas for me, I am not pushing myself at all, I am frozen. Again, we have the opposite reaction to a similar injury…
It’s like you would need to tell yourself: “I am good enough and I am doing enough“. And I would need to tell myself “I am good enough and I can do this next step.” Perhaps 🙂
Haha yeah, you’re right. Well, we got to try. Right!?
SereneWolfParticipantHi Tee,
ehhh I know, it’s been a long time, and I’ve disappeared again 🙁
It’s mostly because of health issues, larger and smaller, which have been causing me health anxiety. It’s like I do have real health issues (I am not imagining it), but then my fear and worry about it make things worse. It occupies me, and it’s hard to focus on anything productive, including posting here on the forum.
So yeah, I am sorry for not responding and disappearing yet again… And I thank you for being so kind and checking in on me… I really appreciate it, SereneWolf.
It’s totally fine I can understand. I wanted to know if you’re getting better, but thanks for responding. I know your health issues aren’t easier, so I hope it gets better and I also hope that you get more courage and love over anxiety for your health.
How have you been?
I’m doing ok. Trying for my self-esteem issues and love myself more. But I believe I’m getting better. I’ve completely focused myself for my career. No situationships for now. Although my sister and brother-in-law kinda on a mission to find a girl for me and convince me to get married and I know their intention aren’t wrong and also started to tell me lot of good aspects from the right partner and marriage, so I’m not scared about marriage as I used to. Since I’m seeing a good thing about it. But I’ve told them only to start look for girls when I tell you that I’m ready. and they agreed.
And lately I do try to be grateful and positive within, yet I still feel alone and helpless and losing hope sometimes. But I’m still being resilient. I’m trying to listen to Inner positive voices like Krishna and Uncle Iroh like and try to feel like someone’s watching over me and they got my back and things will get better.SereneWolfParticipantHi Tee,
I hope you’re in good health. Just wanted to check in.
SereneWolfParticipantHi Tee,
No, I live in an apartment building. I meant that in general: that rain is good for the crops out there in the fields 🙂
Oh I see, I agree though here I like the starting of the winter the cool breeze and lot of fresh green veggies available to cook
Yeah, I guess so. It’s my learned helplessness that was telling me differently. That’s what I’ve realized recently: that I adopted learned helplessness in many areas of my life (due to my childhood and upbringing), and it’s been a slow process to “unlearn” it. The most recent but long-lasting example is my health problems, which triggered a lot of my childhood trauma.
And it actually occurred to me that you’re the opposite of me in that sense: whereas my “modus operandi” is learned helplessness (believing that I am weak, and relying too much on other people to help me/save me), yours seems to be excessive self-reliance, to the point to pushing other people away. In other words, I am too needy, while you seem to be not needing anyone, or rather, not wanting to need anyone.
Oh I see, I didn’t know so thanks for sharing. Then how can same kind of wound could have opposite ends of spectrum? Also in my case excessive self-reliance is depleting my energy quickly and burning me out time to time yet still attacking my self-esteem. Like I’d be like I can do it no matter what and then when I’m not able to I blame myself subconsciously. Because in my head I’m like what others can do? I have to rely on myself to get things done.
Because my trust issues adds up in this as well. But we can change our “modus operandi” right? How you’re still coping with feeling helpless?Both of those are defense mechanisms to a similar type of childhood wounding, but they are on the opposite ends of the spectrum. You had a very criticizing father and a mother who didn’t protect you, whereas for me it was a very criticizing mother and a father who didn’t protect me. Your mother and my father were more interested in keeping the “peace” in the house, while less interested in their child’s well-being.
My father was more interested in appeasing my mother, than in protecting me. He would minimize and try to explain away my mother’s behavior. He was gaslighting both himself and me that what is happening is not a big deal. I believe your mother was the same?
Yeah, I guess my mother thought peace in the family means more than my protection or my mental health and to be honest even now my parents aren’t much aware about like mental health is a thing. They think if you’re getting basic needs, you should be happier and kind of materialistic happiness. Because of the small village mentality. Also My mother did told me most of her life all she did is just calm my father’s anger because of relatives and other things going on. Which I think is very toxic on my father’s side. I wouldn’t be able to bear that behaviour any longer that’s why I started living on my own much earlier. I guess she just didn’t think about standing up for herself. Which could be the same case for your father?
Of course, when I was a child I didn’t know that my father’s silence meant that he isn’t able to confront my mother. Instead, I believed that I was the problem and that my mother is right. My father’s silence meant a confirmation that I was a faulty child, that something is wrong with me. So he was complicit in my mother’s emotional abuse. He was a silent bystander, even though he never personally treated me badly.
Anyway, I believe we got a double whammy of one abusive parent and the other silent/complicit. And it ruined our self-esteem, because the complicit parent didn’t protect us from the abusive one, and so the only message we’ve received was that we are bad and faulty. At least that’s the message I’ve received.
Yeah that’s right and I think main issue here is our ruined self-esteem as a result which isn’t easier to heal faster. So now that you are aware that you weren’t the faulty child yet it’s still rooted in you? That’s what you mean?
In my case luckily it’s not bad as before (But still) I do feel I have to achieve much more and I’m not good enough just yet.You did say your mother was kind and caring in many instances, and so was my father (specially when it was just the two of us spending time together, going on holidays, hikes etc). But when it comes to confronting my mother about her behavior (both towards me and towards himself), my father was weak. And so her message (that I am not good enough) never got counter-balanced by something positive.
Yeah I think my mother’s behaviour was the same.
Maybe I am repeating myself because we’ve been talking about this before. But it is what I’ve been thinking recently – how our defense mechanisms are on the opposite sides of the spectrum. Me: too dependent and needy. You: too “independent” and not wanting to need anyone.
And it was not that hard for you to opt for total self-reliance – because you were quite capable and managed to get out unscathed from many tough situations/adventures, without needing your parents to save you. Which I guess strengthened the sense that you don’t need them and can manage on your own (in lot of situations I was alone and I saved my own self. There are some situations where people did helped me but still...)
So once you were old enough (around 16), you stopped relying on your parents for physical survival and sustenance, and you moved out. You didn’t need them for emotional sustenance either, because they’ve hurt you, each in their own way. The result is that you became totally self-reliant. (In comparison, I still felt like a child at 20, and couldn’t imagine to move out and live independently.)
It’s not a bad thing if we’re physically/financially self-reliant (that’s something we should actually strive for as adults – to be able to support ourselves). But your self-reliance stretches into the emotional realm too (But basically for relationship you’re right I’ve been hurt and I was alone so I thought just myself is enough). And this is giving you trouble now…
I agree with you. And the thing is that I never been taught to give relationships priority you know. That’s something I discovered after my earlier 20s that building relationships romantic or generally it’s really important. And the self-reliance fueled that wrong belief even more. And the funny part is that I have trust issues even though till now I’ve met like really kind, helpful and amazing people. Generally takes me long to trust in the person. But what I’m glad about is that I was never into transactional relationships like I’m only helping you just because you helped me. I always have this mindset of If I’m able to help someone then I’m going to help. I don’t want something in return.
But in previous romantic relationship part I was like a fixing figure so that also didn’t fulfilled me either so..
Oh talking about that you know that women are more likely to fall in love when she have sex with the same person? But for men it’s not the same. Doctor told me that 😂
I told her If she wants we can also stop physical things but she was like naah.. But anyways I guess we’re both little tired to find something more suitable for ourselves..
Well, trust has to be built. I was talking about the person having a track record of being trustworthy, e.g. of showing up when they’ve promised, of not laughing at you when you show vulnerability, of supporting you when something bad happens (e.g. when your cat died). After a while, you realize you can trust them that they won’t hurt you or betray you.
Hmm in that case I did meet mostly the nice women. Doctor is extra nice and sensitive though. But I did get your point. And the thing is I guess my senses are stronger in that regard if I’m around disrespectful and insensitive type of women I wouldn’t even think about going out with her or even act aloof when she tries to get along with me. But I guess I do have to try to meet more women not just for romantic relationship but to remove my shyness to ask out someone when I actually like them
Fast love can be infatuation – it’s when we have our rose-colored glasses on and idealize the person and fail to see the warning signs. But for you, I guess you’re afraid to fall in love – you are afraid to form an attachment to the person – because you are afraid they’d hurt you. I think that whenever we get attached to someone, we need something from them, and them disappearing from our lives would hurt us. So that’s a risk that you are not willing to take yet.
I think that’s why you don’t feel “fast love” – because you’re preventing yourself from falling in love, i.e. to form that attachment.
Ohh right definitely I am afraid of falling in love. It feels like I’m trying to protecting too much or like not letting it loose enough you know.. and I don’t think I need something from them. But more like fear of wasting time and not working out and just dull over the time you know. Because again I still have the fear that I’m not getting any younger
Yes, and you’re actually getting to know her, and based on what you said, she seems trustworthy. But your fear doesn’t let you start trusting her. It doesn’t let you fall in love with her either.
Hmm I guess so.. and I do trust her. But somehow I’m still not trusting in this relationship working out with her
Yes, it is 🙂 You’re seeing it clearly. Which is a good place to start healing 🙂
I’ve got some ideas why you have so much mistrust, and I think it’s related to your mother not really supporting you, but making allegiance with your father (excusing his abusive behavior, and telling you to be the mature one and tolerate abuse). So it was a kind of betrayal.
How do you feel about all this? We can explore it some more, if you feel like it…
To be honest I’m not sure if that’s the root cause it may be I don’t know… and yeah we can explore
Maybe she was actually jealous of your enthusiasm and didn’t like it? It wouldn’t be your fault, of course, but maybe she is intimidated by people who seem more confident and energetic than she is?
In any case, I am very sorry. It’s their loss not hiring you, because you would have been a great asset… But anyway, you’ll find something else, something close to your heart, and hopefully very soon!
She did seem intimidated but I couldn’t just hide my enthusiasm because I practiced a lot and I was just more hopeful so..
Yeah thanks I hope so.. I took few days of break for applying. I didn’t just felt like it. I started applying again though so let’s see.
SereneWolfParticipantWell just got an update for an interview. not selected for further round. 🥲
I did had a good feeling about this one but oh wellSereneWolfParticipantHi Tee,
How’s your week going?
It’s more rainy than I’d fancy, but it’s okay, it’s good for the plants and crops 🙂
Oh cool. You have like your own little farm that you grow crops in? what plants are there?
Yes, although with health anxiety it’s tricky because the pain is in the body, so sometimes it’s triggering to focus on one’s body and feel all the various sensations (which is a typical exercise for grounding), because then you’ll feel the pain too, and it’s counterproductive. So for me, it is more like self-suggestion and telling myself that I am stronger than I think, and that the last time the pain went away, so it will happen this time too.
Ah I see, that’s right triggering the feeling of pain ain’t easy. And you’re indeed much stronger than you think! No matter what your anxiety says to you.
Great! I am rooting for you to make it happen!
Thanks a lot 😀
You are very welcome. Yeah, self-worth is key, and that’s what gets damaged when we have a criticizing parent. Your father made you believe you’re not good enough (when you didn’t get straight As, when you didn’t get him the right tool immediately, and in many other occasions throughout your childhood), and so that’s what you started believing about yourself too. And it takes a long time and healing to undo that false belief…
Yes I guess because I’m self-aware about these things at later age it’s little bit harder because the roots are deeper
I am glad you’re aware of your skills, and how capable you are of learning new things, adapting, and thriving in a new setting. So yeah, don’t forget that. And indeed, that you’re an asset and have a lot to offer.
Yes I’m trying to believe that!
What I am trying to say is don’t immediately make the worst possible conclusion about yourself. Don’t question your worth, even if a company rejects you!
Well to be honest I’m not doing that consciously. Most of the time I’ve seen those emails I’d just ignore it. I be like yeah okay, there will be a good match soon. But I guess maybe it’s my subconscious.
First, I am happy if you started believing that you can find someone compatible, someone you can enjoy time together even in silence. That’s so precious! And if this girl is in that category, you’re lucky.
Well she is in that category. But I’m always questioning this like there is very slight chance that it would work out between us. Because I do like to spend time with her but she also scares me with her bold “commitment type” of moves sometimes 😂
It sounds like the fear of getting hurt, once you’ve given your heart to someone. When we love, we are vulnerable. We’ve talked about vulnerability before. Without vulnerability, there is no healthy relationship. There is no authenticity. But you fear to be vulnerable because if we’re hurt by someone we love and trust, it hurts a lot. It hurts like hell.
And you’ve already experienced this pain in your childhood: you’ve opened your heart and trusted your parents, and they’ve hurt you. Specially your father. And it happened again and again. So for you, being vulnerable and needing someone is a big no-no. Super scary. You want to prevent to be hurt again. Would you agree with this?
Hmm not really because I believe it’s not about getting hurt anymore. Because I don’t know I got this sense of strength that it is my heart and I’m able to heal my heart no matter what. Maybe my heart is rigid and I’m also sensitive occasionally but I know time and patience can heal heart. And because of this girl I don’t think I’m much scared about vulnerability either.
There are no guarantees in life. And no absolute security. When I get out in the street, who guarantees me that a brick won’t fall on my head? That I won’t be hit by a car? If we lived like that, we wouldn’t live at all.
But still, in a relationship, you can know if someone is trustworthy. It’s not so completely random. Because the person has a track record or supporting you and being there for you. If you marry someone, you don’t marry them at a whim, but because you’ve got to know the person. You’ve been vulnerable with them, and they’ve been vulnerable with you. And when problems arise, you communicate about it, you don’t pretend that everything is fine.
All this is still not a guarantee of “living happily ever after”, but it gives you a certain certainty, a higher probability of things working out.
You know what they say: nothing is ever certain in life, only death is. But within that general uncertainty, you can still count on some people and trust them – because they have proven themselves as trustworthy.
I agree with you. So what you mean is a process of trusting first and even for me in relationship trust comes first and after that, love. Maybe somewhere I still believe in fast love yet still have that feeling of security which isn’t right. My controlling behavior haha
And slow love, like getting to know the person, building trust and love based on that. It seems long process but there is actually much higher probability.
But because I was already in many unhealthy relationship dynamics even that seems questionable and time wasting to me. So in a way I’m craving a heathy love yet still exhausted to actually put in efforts for healthy love. Me, I’m the problem it’s me 😂
Retina is super important… I do hope she gets better. There are also vitamins she can take, to strengthen the retina, but I guess she knows all that…
I guess she’s already doing that but it what happened to her is more like genetic so..
Great! Were they physically dangerous situations (like watching the lioness give birth in the jungle), or other types of situations?
Yes. Physically and mentally dangerous both. I went to visit oil refinery with my uncle and they gave us VIP pass and my uncle was there for business matters so he was working and I was just curious checking things here and there was this giant pod they didn’t know I was in so they locked up. They couldn’t even hear if I scream. So I just sit there for an hour and after that looking around and see thing yellow printed sign for the location and pickup time was on the pod so I was like damn if I won’t hurry I’m going to dead because they lift up the pod with machines and it’s quite fast so much higher chances of me getting crushed inside the pod. But I calmed myself and there was this pointy rod thing I managed to remove it after like half house and sharp pointy rod can make much higher noise to an iron pod so, so that’s how they find out I was there 😂
And it happened with wild animals too… not giving birth (Because that is actually beautiful thing) but in Lion just sitting on the way when I was just riding my bicycle going back home. I wasn’t taking road but the farm area shortcuts because it was easier and faster. If you move too much around lion it would mean you’re a meal that’s it. So I literally waited like 3.5 hours just sitting there waiting him to move on his own and till then I was just sitting on my bicycle like a statue.
And lot of other normal work and school related things lol
You see how much hope (and trust) you had, even in dangerous, possibly life-threatening situations? I guess you had trust in yourself and your own abilities, and in providence, right?
At the same time, you are scared to trust another person. I am not judging you at all, just inviting you to notice it. You’re scared to trust because you’ve been hurt in your childhood. So trust in relationships is gone. Trust in nature (and your own abilities) is still there, but trust in another person is gone.
Yes exactly because in lot of situations I was alone and I saved my own self. There are some situations where people did helped me but still..
But basically for relationship you’re right I’ve been hurt and I was alone so I thought just myself is enough.
Yes you do. You’d only have to learn how to trust again…
Yes I know, I’m trying
Wishing you best of luck on Wednesday! (but we can talk in the meanwhile too, hope my eyes wills serve me 🙂 )
Thanks, and yes my interview went actually well. Beyond my expectations. I practiced a lot but she didn’t ask many things. but Still I don’t think I gave the best answers but more like satisfactory? Because the Technical interviewer had less energy and I was energetic, so I guess she did like that enthusiasm as well. but let’s see now. There will be another interview with Data scientist soon. But I’m still worried though.
You still having eye problems? Is it getting any better?
SereneWolfParticipantHi Tee,
Hope you’re having a good weekend.
So it’s like there is a real reason why I am concerned about my health, but still, I don’t need to worry that much. This excessive worrying is a part of health anxiety, and luckily I am learning how to deal with it and calm myself down.
I see what you mean I understood it now. But I’m glad you’re able to deal with it now. I guess this also involves some grounding practice?
Yes, they both are super important sectors, and sustainability is close to my heart too. It’s good that you’re looking for jobs in fields that are meaningful to you!
Me too. and when I gather enough capital, I want to start some good sustainability startup for sure. That’s one of my goals.
I understand that you really want this job. And the pressure to get it. But unfortunately it increases your anxiety, which then makes it harder during the interview. Perhaps the first thing you’d need to do it put the perfectionist pressure off yourself: “I Need to ace all of this interviews.”
No, you don’t need to ace them. You don’t need to be perfect, which was the requirement your father has put on you. You only need to be yourself – which is GOOD ENOUGH.
Because honestly, without flattering you, Serenewolf, you are good enough. You are more than qualified, you have the experience, the knowledge, the managerial skills, and emotional intelligence as well. You’ve got both the tech skills and the soft skills. So really, I think you’re a well-rounded candidate with a lot to offer.
Please think of yourself in those terms. You’ll be a great asset for them, they’ll be lucky to have you. You’ve got a lot of offer. Try to think in those terms.
Again Thanks for giving me amazing and touching reminders about myself. I do tend to forget my own self worth or what I’m able to provide or achieve. I believe Long term of inner critic have to do something with that or maybe something else. My soft skills have indeed improved much better as well as technical skills and top of that I’m so adaptable to learn new things. The first company I worked for I literally learned everything under a week. Even though I was a total fresher at that time.
Yeah, keep your focus on your job for now. You can return to the relationship topic later. But also, if you can relax a bit and see yourself as a great candidate for the job (like I suggested above), you don’t need to worry that much. Just change the perspective a little, and you won’t be under such huge pressure.
Yes you’re right I’m trying to change my perspective but after getting many rejection emails it’s not that easy you know
I’ve heard once that excitement and anxiety are very similar in terms of the hormones that are secreted. I’ve just looked it up now and found a Forbes article about it, titled “Anxiety vs relaxation: Relabeling anxiety as excitement“. Here is an excerpt:
The feeling of anxiety is physiologically almost the same as the feeling of excitement. Both feelings produce an elevated heart rate and a feeling of butterflies in your stomach. Both might make you sweat. Your body is readying itself for action. But the feelings are different.
If you can redefine getting this job as an opportunity and challenge, rather than a horrible loss if it doesn’t happen, you might be able to feel more excitement and less fear and anxiety. Anyway, just an idea. Let me know how it sounds to you.
That’s a really insightful advice indeed! Thanks for sharing. I love it 😀
I think it has to do with your childhood experience of not feeling safe and accepted in the relationship with your parents (specially with your father). Relationship and vulnerability feels like a burden, perhaps even a threat, rather than a source of comfort and safety. From what we’ve talked about so far, relationship feels like a threat to your independence, freedom, life goals, pursuing your passions… Am I right in thinking that? And as long as you see relationship as a threat, no wonder you’ll be afraid of it.
Recently I’m not seeing relationship as a threat. But more like what if after that much invested time and emotions what if it doesn’t work out? So it’s a fear like this. Because there’s another thing Now I know I can find someone who understand me and we have similar life values and enjoy time together even in silence. (Not easy but not that hard) and don’t get me wrong I try to be positive for love but the thing is still if I read or see something around like Breakup or cheating or hear some things like that from someone I’m immediately somewhat feeling like I’m saved. Because I’m not committed, I don’t have to deal with those things.
Just recently one of my friend’s bf ended relationship with her saying that he doesn’t love her anymore and ended a 7 YEARS long relationship. So hearing things like this how can I be even little hopeful?You mean you need to repeat everything about yourself to the new therapist, until they get to know you?
Yes and you already know how much harder it is for me express myself properly
She does sound like a very kind and supportive person, who is willing to help in spite of her health issues. That’s admirable. I understand why you don’t want to switch to someone else. Let’s hope she will get better soon. By the way, does she have a diagnosis of what her eye problems are?
She have some kind of retinal condition. So it’s advised to her that she should spend much less screentime as possible to prevent further damage and sometimes she’s also getting migraines as well so
Sure, yes, a good therapist is first and foremost a positive, compassionate presence in our life. Someone who listens to us without judgment. Someone we can be authentic with. Therapeutic relationship is important precisely because of that. Because a therapist ideally creates a safe, non-judgmental place for us to express ourselves, to be ourselves. Something many of us didn’t have while growing up. In doing so, the therapist also teaches us to create that safe place within ourselves: our internal good parent, or Uncle Iroh or Lord Krishna.
And you succeeded in creating that safe space within yourself, because as you say: And that’s why I’m blaming myself much less than I used to.
And because of that, yes, it’s easier to do self-healing too, because you have your own inner therapist now. The inner critic is still there, but Uncle Iroh is there too, and that’s so precious!
Haha well tbh it what keeps me sane time to time. Because I’ve been situations that normal person just couldn’t even bare. And even in that kind of time I was able to be calm and tell myself it’s alright, Breathe. I can solve it. I can handle this.
And sometimes even like just surrendering myself for like total hope. Like no matter what it’ll be alright. I survived lot of things and I’ll survive this and succeed. And lot of times it actually worked without even putting too much effort. Can you imagine?Thank you, SereneWolf. I think you’ve made an amazing progress. I remember in the beginning you didn’t want to accept that our childhood has a huge impact on us as adults 🙂 but then you kind of “got it”, and that’s when you really went deeper and expanded your self-awareness. That’s when you decided to start therapy too… All that helped you to have much more compassion and understanding for yourself. And I hope you do feel better about yourself in your day-to-day life, without too much self-blame and self-criticism?
You still have work to do related to the fear of relationship, but you’ll get there. Right now, focus on feeling good enough for the job you’re applying for. Because as I said, you’re more than good enough. Just try to get your confidence up, feeling good in your own skin, and I promise you, you’ll ace that interview, without even trying to do it 😀
Oh haha I remember I was being stubborn about it but thanks again for always being understanding, guiding me and supporting me. I highly appreciate it. And yeah I do think I’m much self-aware than before. And I do feel much better about myself than before definitely. I’d say Self-blame is totally gone but yeah some self-criticism is still there.
Yes I know I have to work on my fear of relationship because I know I have so much love to give.
Yes. I’m already practicing for an interview. Thanks a lot for your good wishes! I feel much better. 🌻😃SereneWolfParticipantHey Tee,
Actually, I am only now starting to learn to be more resilient. These health issues made me feel very fragile physically, but I’ve realized I am also fragile emotionally. For example, believing that I’d never heal, worrying, catastrophizing etc. And I’ve learned that those are all symptoms of health anxiety. So now I’ve learned how to cope with that anxiety, and also to start seeing myself as more resilient (physically) than I thought I was.
So nowadays, whenever I have a flare-up of my symptoms, I don’t start despairing and thinking my life is over, but I let it pass. And within a few days, my symptoms do subside and I feel better again. So this is how I am learning resilience… by tolerating physical pain 🙂 But it’s been hard, a very hard lesson.. but anyway, that’s life, I hope I am now stronger because of it 🙂
Oh actually I didn’t even know there’s a specifically thing like health anxiety exist. But I’m glad you found a way to cope with that anxiety. I guess we always find a way one way or another. And I do like your approach because in your situation combining with physical pain so it’s easy to feel fragile and anxious! so Keep up your good work 😀
So you ended up not applying for that entry level job, which was paying well and looked promising?
I did apply but unfortunately didn’t get selected. Someone with even higher experience than me started working there with less salary package. But I didn’t sulk over that because it was months ago and I thought maybe that person needed that job more than me.
I am sorry it’s been so stressful for you. Are the opportunities so limited or you are somewhat picky, looking for a very specific thing?
It’s the IT job market in general. There aren’t even enough jobs open, on top of that layoffs. And what I’m looking for is working in HealthTech or Sustainability sector. Because I think it’s meaningful for me and also impactful.
Luckily just Thursday I passed initial interview for this Healthtech company. It’s really good position. Took me really long to get selected for a position like that. It’s also fully remote. And enough pay that I can also move to Europe without any issues.
Now I have next technical interview on Next Wednesday. but I have high hope for this as well as this crazy fear and anxiety that what if I don’t perform well and don’t get it? It’s a really good opportunity that I just don’t want to lose. And it’s just not even letting me practice with good focus. Because this one has multiple stage of interviews after interview on Wednesday there will be two more interviews. And I Need to ace all of this interviews.
I see. It just occurred to me that when you are under stress and feeling bad about something (like with the job search at the moment), you don’t need anyone around to support you. Like, a romantic relationship isn’t a resource for you, but a burden, it seems? And so you tend to get rid of the relationship, to feel less burdened, right?
When I talked about this my therapist while ago she said at difficult time that’s what exactly you need, someone who really supports you and she told me try to stop always being self-dependent. But tbh I’m not able to do that for now. My focus for job is sharp. Because currently it’s a necessity.
It seems she really likes you and is waiting for you. I am kind of rooting for the two of you too 🙂 Because she seems like a good girl… But anyway, you’ll see. Those things cannot (and shouldn’t) be forced, that’s for sure.
You’re right and like you know we discussed before like I need to be more hopeFul romantic not hopeLess romantic. But I don’t know why but I’m still very hopeless about love. On top of that because of this kind of thinking I’m already feeling like I’d end up alone and no one would love me with their whole heart if I’m keep rejecting love like this.
Because tbh I do really like her but I just don’t see future in her even though she’s really good I just don’t know why…
Oh I am sorry about that. I also had some eye issues, and it was very frightening, but I did get better, thankfully. I hope your therapist will get better too.
I hope so. Because with another therapist it’s all from 0 to 1. And more than that It’s the good relationship you know. Because I want good connection too.
Are you doing those exercises? Are you in touch with her? I mean, is she available at least from time to time? Because self-healing is hard, although not impossible.
I’m not able to doing those exercises daily tbh. But yes I’m in touch with her. And just look her dedication she said we can communicate over written letters like the old times. And she won’t even charge me any fees for that. She also believes everything happens for a reason, and this would help her do more writing which she always wanted to do in her teenage years, How would I think about changing a therapist like this?
Self-healing is indeed not easy. But at the end of the day therapists are only like a guide but all the inner work we have to do by ourselves so..
I’ve heard once a great concept, which is that emotional wounds happened in a relationship, and that’s why we also need a relationship to heal them. A therapeutic relationship primarily. Or we need to have a strong sense of self-compassion, which is like having an inner therapist rather than the inner critic. Unless we have developed a strong inner coach/therapist/good parent figure, emotional healing is hard to do on our own.
So I think it would make sense to try to find another therapist – someone you do have a good rapport with. Unless you’re feeling you’re making progress on your own too?
That’s indeed a great concept and I guess I’m trying to bring that inner therapist/parent figure more. For example. Uncle Iroh or Krishnaji (Lord Krishna). And that’s why I’m blaming myself much less than I used to.
Well I do feel like I’m making a progress but for different perspective I wouldn’t mind you telling what do you think my progress so far? Because obviously you continuously contributing a huge part in my healing journey. Because we started communicating long before I even started therapy.
SereneWolfParticipantOla Tee! 😀
It’s totally fine. I’m really glad to that you’re feeling better. Really happy to hear back from you. I do know that you’re very strong & resilient and I admire that. But I hope you feel even better.
For Job let’s say I’m still being resilient and applying. There were days when I felt like absolute trash. Because I wasn’t seeing any results. And I was worried for financial pressure too. So like finding a job and on top of that financial pressure. That’s the only two things that rendered in my head. Made me sick to my stomach. It was even harder to enjoy simple things (Which I normally enjoy) But It’s getting better.
About relationship. Because of this much pressure I totally made her distant from myself. She did try but I wasn’t just in right mental state. Even now I’m just not thinking about it that much. We rarely talk. I even told her that it’s better that she finds someone more suitable according to her needs. But she said no. So now we’re like a non-committed friends who kiss sometimes.
And It’s been one and a half month I’m not seeing my therapist. She got some health issues too. Mostly her eyes and throat. Which is very crucial for online sessions you know. And she did suggest me another therapist but I didn’t liked her that much so I stopped. So I talked to her and she said she believes that I’m more than capable of doing self-healing and I’m improved much faster rate than she imagined. So told me keep working on some exercises and working on healing my emotional wounds and whenever I need a like a push, she’ll help me.
What about you? How you’ve been doing?
SereneWolfParticipantHi Tee!
Yay! I’m really glad! I guess long vacation did helped in some ways :D, Where did you travelled if you don’t mind me asking.
Yes that’s right let your eyes rest. No need to say sorry.I’m still being resilient and applying for jobs.
SereneWolfParticipantHi Tee,
You did say your heath wasn’t improving. So just wanted to check on you. I hope you’re okay.Get well soon 🙂
SereneWolfParticipantHi Tee,
sorry for the delay, I am on holidays and spending less time at the computer.
That’s fine! I hope you’re enjoying your holidays well 😀
Thank you! Although I have to say, these last few days have been rough health-wise, so it was hard to stay optimistic. But then it eventually got better again, and I can keep on keeping on…
I got fever too (2-3 Days) and damn that’s not easy, and for your health it’s much complex and bigger so I understand, and I admire your strength to keeping on.
I guess when you start working on those attachment wounds and the fear of intimacy and vulnerability. When you heal enough so you won’t feel threatened by being in a relationship. Because right now, you probably fear that you’ll lose your freedom, independence, ability to do what you enjoy doing, right?
This? Yes I fear that!
Maybe you’re also afraid of being judged, so you feel you need to perform and meet certain expectations, and can’t just be yourself in the relationship?
But I don’t think I’m afraid of being judged anymore in the relationship because nothing is more energy draining than act as per like someone’s expectations person by person. That’s like people pleasing but out of relationship situation I still have some people pleasing tendencies.
But you said your girlfriend isn’t really rushing to get married and have children. So it seems she isn’t the cause of stress but it’s more like that you’re telling yourself that being in a relationship means needing to settle down and have children within the 2-3 year time span. So it’s more like the false belief and the expectation that you are putting on yourself is what causes you pressure, rather than your girlfriend putting pressure on you, right?
She’s not rushing because she knows I’m not serious like her into this relationship, When we met for our second date, she did mention that she’s tired and she wants to settle down. Because even she thinks finding love isn’t easy at all. She literally sends me cute baby videos on IG time to time! And she also suggested adopting a kitten together when my cat ran away, I may have been taking it the wrong way, but you know what that means right? But yeah these are just my assumptions… But saying indirect “yes” to those things means taking things next level and going into the pool!
So I’d say he never gave you the freedom to be yourself – even if he gave you the freedom to move away from home.
Hmm so it’s like for his own ego and comfort?
I don’t know if he meant to say that he might have made mistakes in your (and your siblings’) upbringing? If he is willing to admit that he might have made mistakes, that’s already something. Because my mother isn’t willing to admit that.
Well like I’ve told you he did said sorry to my grandmother when we had a fight in the past. Not directly to me but still yeah
Haha, you said you were in your late 20s, so I put the highest possible age. But if you’re even younger than that, then my words have an even bigger weight! Because you’re really young and the entire life is ahead of you.
But you know how days are going? Like a blink of an eye! I feel so nostalgic watching old anime it feels like yesterday when I used to watch those things. Also I do have to mention that I guess I’m using that to sooth myself from this really fast paced AI world.
Your inner critic used the opportunity to judge you for being lazy and not working on actively defending yourself from…. the inner critic himself! You see that mechanism?
But but isn’t that rational and right? 😅
The inner critic uses everything to turn things against you, even my advice on how to get rid of it! So just pay attention to that and notice every time you scold yourself for anything. Because every such scolding is the inner critic in action.
Hmm I guess I’ll have to try more
If you like the position and it pays well even at the entry level, and it gives you an opportunity for career advancement – then sure, go for it! The only question is – how come the entry level pays more than the manager level somewhere else? Have you checked if this company is legit and there are no scams involved? If they are legit, if there’s nothing fishy, then I’d say take it, by all means.
Thanks and They’re legal and it’s not a scam, It’s paying well because they raised lot of funding recently even during this time! So, they have a lot of confidence for their product and I like that. And I even researched for their salary data and they’re paying Product person 4x higher!
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