Dear saggad,

you’re very welcome.

And thank you for reminding me that not everyone has to be forgiven, cause my efforts to forgive didn’t work so far. Maybe I should accept the fact that I can’t come to 100% peace with her in my mind. And I have to live with it maybe…

Yes, I think your first priority at the moment shouldn’t be to forgive her. I think it’s okay if you allow yourself to feel the anger, because it’s a justified anger. She did treat you badly, she was dishonest, betrayed your trust and stole from you. Feeling angry is an indicator that we were wronged or violated, so it’s a healthy protective mechanism. It’s to signal you that you shouldn’t allow the same thing happen in the future.

Over time, as you feel more able to protect yourself from abusive people, you won’t feel intense anger any more, it won’t occupy your heart and mind as it does now. You will be free from it.

And my effort should be toward forgiving myself and giving myself permission to live again.

Yes, absolutely!

and yes, I have to learn how to recognize selfish people and unhealthy relationships. Any advice about it or a book to read would be so helpful.

Hm, I don’t have a specific book that comes to mind. But I think you did recognize already in 2019 that this relationship was unhealthy, because you described it back then:

My first relationship (which was with a 32 years old woman) was pretty awful. I was in relationship during 3 years with her and during those years I was only taking care of her problems and I’ve never touched her even. … those 3 years was absolutely​ bad. I loved her but I didn’t receive anything from her… I don’t know why I was in that relationship… I knew that she only want me in her bad days and I didn’t have any meaning for her at all…

So you knew she was using you. That’s good. You did have the awareness of it, even if later you got back together with her. We can talk about the circumstances how and why you got back together, but it’s good that you actually know what a bad relationship is, and what a selfish behavior looks like.

You also knew what you wanted from a relationship. You wrote this in 2019:

I felt that I should be in the right relationship and being able to love someone and enjoy the life with her (and not only being an helper and then a garbage)

You also knew that the girl whom you were with later wasn’t good for you:

I knew that she was not the right choice, she never could accept me as I am. But I felt the need so I decided to be with her.

So you knew that if the woman doesn’t accept you for who you are, she is not a good choice. But you went along anyway, because you desperately wanted a relationship.

So I think you do know what an unhealthy relationship is, and what you should look out for. You only need to decide not to go into such relationships, or stay in them, against your better judgment.

I think you’d basically need to work on the reasons why you tolerated selfish and abusive behavior by your first girlfriend, and what is it that made you get back together with her and trust her, in spite of her self-centeredness.

Dear saggad,

oh I see, you were visiting her daughters in hospital, so you know for sure.

I checked your other thread as well, to understand a little better. Is this woman the same woman you had a long-distance relationship with, and then she broke it off when you couldn’t travel to her country (sometime in 2019)? Does it mean she had come to your country since, for her daughters’ treatment? And now she is gone again?

I am sorry you can’t do anything to seek justice. It’s good that you’re not too attached to the money and have mostly let it go, since you can earn it again.

What would the process of letting it go look like in a situation like this? While I’m almost sure forgiving doesn’t work when the person even doesn’t admit to what she has done. I tried but I couldn’t.

This woman was not what she was portraying herself to be. She was dishonest and used you for her purposes. Even if she had sick children and needed money for their treatment, the fact that she tricked you into writing your flat on her name and then selling it is a crime. So you’d need to accept that this woman is a liar and that she will never apologize, nor admit her actions. Not all women are like that, but you’d need to learn how to protect yourself from selfish, deceptive women in the future.

it is destroying my mental health and any future relationship that I could have.

Is it because you believe that you will be hurt like that again? That you can’t trust any woman?

If so, the best way to move on is to learn how to protect yourself from a similar disappointment in the future.

In your previous thread you mentioned that your first relationship was with a woman 12 yrs older than you, who only contacted you when she needed something from you. And that you were never intimate with her. Your second relationship was with a girl who wanted to change almost everything about you, and with whom you didn’t have anything common to talk about. And your 3rd relationship was long-distance, with a woman you said understood you, but couldn’t wait for you to move to her country. Presumably this is the woman who later cheated on you financially?

All 3 of those relationships were bad for you, with selfish and/or deceptive women. From your previous thread and anita’s correspondence with you, I think I understand why you were attracted to such women and why you didn’t recognize that those weren’t healthy relationships.

So I think one of the major tasks would be to start learning what a healthy relationship is and a healthy, supportive interaction between two people. Because you didn’t it have it too much in your childhood or adolescence.

I am sorry you didn’t therapy helpful. Otherwise a good therapist could be a perfect person with whom you can practice healthy communication, and who can meet some of your basic needs: of being seen, accepted, validated, mirrored… all those things you didn’t receive from your parents.

How does this sound? Was it of any help to you?

Dear Adam,

I am sorry you are hurting so much. It’s normal because you were very attached to her, even if she wasn’t giving you what you wanted. I dare say you were codependent, which means your happiness depended on her happiness and all your energy and attention was focused on her. That’s not healthy. That’s basically being dependent on a person, similarly as we become dependent on a drug.

I feel she casted me into a role of being an individual to shelter and protect her from all things bad. When I could not do this all the time in reality and this caused her to feel that I wasn’t truly loving her. I think I cast myself in the role as well, all I wanted to do was to keep her happy and content while understanding that I was here.

Yes, she casted you into a role of her “protector”, but you casted yourself not only in the role of her protector, but also her “savior”. Because you wanted her to change. You couldn’t accept to live with her double personality, with her traumatized self. You didn’t like that part. So you wanted to change her. And that’s a big mistake. Because we can never change a person, unless they want to change themselves.

It’s totally understandable that you couldn’t accept her traumatized self, and her switching back and forth between loving you and rejecting you. However, your mistake was to try to push her to change, to work on her healing, which she didn’t want. You became attached to changing her – and that’s where you became codependent. A healthy reaction would have been to leave – because the relationship isn’t working.

I know the attraction of wanting to help someone heal, to “save” them, and then have them love me fully and completely. But I realized it’s loving the idea of the person – the way we would want them to be – rather than the real person that is standing in front of you.

You were hooked on what she told you when she was content with you:

I keep thinking of a past message she gave about what she was wanting. To selfishly have me in her arms where she is safe and comfortable but knowing that she will only cause more pain for the both of us in the long run and have to do it all over again.

But a lot of the times she wasn’t content with you (and you weren’t content with her either). A lot of the times she was accusing you and you felt you need to walk on eggshells:

the less I’d upset her the more I would be anxious on walking on egg shells. But when I spoke up I felt I was shut down and told I wasn’t listening to her.

She took everything I said about her as an attack. All my comments about her getting work, her attitude etc were always taken personally and I was told not to bring it up. She use to say things along the lines of ‘I shouldn’t feel bad for feeling a certain way‘ , yet when I would say something similar it was unfair in her eyes. It was always a double standard.

She would accuse me of not having my priorities right, expecting that she should be number 1 before anything else.

She needed a caregiver 247 and when I wasn’t there for her it was again signs of me not loving her enough and her not getting what she was wanting.

I feel quite attacked honestly. I don’t think my side was ever considered and she would selfishly use me as a punching bag for her irrational behavior

This was the reality of your relationship: lots of fights, her accusing you of not understanding her, you wanting her to change and seek therapy, get a job, become more responsible, she breaking up with you whenever she disliked something, then reconciliating mostly because you reached out. And the same cycle repeating over and over.

You see? The reality was much different than your imagined future where she is content in your arms and loving you fully and completely. And where she is mostly healed and behaves like an adult.

You are now latching onto that imagined future (which is like a mirage in the desert, not a reality), and it is getting stronger in your mind. And you are forgetting about the problems and fights and the emotional abuse that you suffered in the relationship:

I keep thinking of a past message she gave about what she was wanting. To selfishly have me in her arms where she is safe and comfortable  <– this is the imagined future

I am finding it hard at the moment to dig up that feeling I had over the last couple weeks when we were together. The feeling of loosing myself and becoming a shell. All I can think is it was right person wrong time. <– this is forgetting about the pain and abuse you’ve experienced in reality

You are making it harder for yourself, because you are distorting the reality of the situation. Remembering things as better than they were… and in due time, if she reaches out again, you will be tempted to get back together again.

If you really want to heal, you’d need to accept the reality and not beautifying it. Accept that she is not who you imagine her to be, and that sticking to the mirage will only make you suffer more.

You’ve started smoking again, because it serves to soothe the pain, to reduce your anxiety temporarily. But can you see that you actually increase your pain by beautifying reality, by refusing to see that your relationship wasn’t so great at all? That a lot of it was in your mind, you hoping for things that weren’t there.

Dear Adam, I know it’s hard for you, but you can heal. It doesn’t have to be that hard. I hope to talk to you more about this…

Dear Anna,

you are very welcome!

Yes, this relationship had a devastating impact on my self-esteem and even faith in humans. The ending was just disgusting to me…

Yeah, if he threatened to sue you for something you’ve said, that’s really low.

It made me cry because I can’t grasp or accept the fact that the guy I was so in love with now is threatening me like that.

I can imagine you felt crushed by his cruelty and his total lack of empathy for you. You thought you knew him, and he turned out to be someone completely different. I totally feel your pain and disbelief. Try to not blame yourself for any of the abuse that happened – he was manipulating you in the beginning, probably love bombing you, and you got hooked.

As an empath, one really listens to your partner, is open to amend the behaviour so gaslighting makes one’s mind crazy.

Oh I see. So he was telling you what you’re doing wrong, and you wanted to please him and correct your behavior, right? You were open to changing yourself… but he abused it – because in fact, the problem wasn’t in you, but in him. But he presented it as your problem – that something is wrong with you. And I guess he managed to convince you and you started to question yourself?

He would say I don’t give him space. But when we argued or I would voice my needs or concerns (I would state things calmly) he would shut down and normally either didn’t talk to me till I started a conversation or would just continue after some time as if nothing happened. So what could one do in such situation?

He was using silent treatment to punish you for expressing your needs. He didn’t want to hear about your needs – he only cared about himself. And his silent treatments were effective because after a while you reached out to him, naturally, because you needed connection and bonding. You didn’t ask for accountability, you just resumed with loving him. So those silent treatments were in fact a way to silence you – to manipulate you into accepting him on his terms and not ask anything for yourself.

I’m a bit worried because next week I’ll be staying in the city where my best friend lives. Normally I always stayed in her place but as it seems she doesn’t want to host me I’m staying somewhere else. I’m a bit sad but also preoccupied how she will act when we meet.

Do you think she might have changed her opinion of you? Was there a big fallout between you two in the recent times?

It’s just I don’t know how many disappointments I can take these days…I’m normally tougher but currently I feel vulnerable and broken.

I understand. Being in a relationship with a narcissist can break the person. I am glad you left his country and stopped all contact with him. Only no contact will enable you to heal gradually. I hope your friend will still be there for you, even if she can’t be that safe haven she used to be in the past.

Please keep writing, if it helps…

Dear EvFran,

that’s a good idea to invite him for a drink, if he wants, and simply talk about your life and experiences, without preaching. Just sort of see him as an equal and relate from that perspective (non-judgmental, supportive). I think that can work wonders, at least for some people.

Wish you luck, if you decide to go for it. And have a great weekend yourself!

* I made a typo, it should be like this: “which is not love any more, but a business deal.”

Dear EvFran,

you’re most welcome!

Today they set a deadline by when he has to move out of the flat, sell his car in order to pay for the stupidity he had done and find a job or continue university. He said ok.

Sounds good. It seems they are on it, doing what needs to be done, setting some boundaries. I hope it will work!

As I travel a lot and he found me ‘cool’ at the bday party, my friend’s sister hopes that I can talk to him and maybe have a good ‘influence’ on him or convince him to get his stuff together. But I’d rather agree with you. If he doesn’t want to change, even God would be unable to make him change.

Yeah, since you only met him once, very recently, I don’t think it would make any difference. But who knows, maybe you can talk to him about other things, e.g. the parts of your life that he finds cool. Not really pressuring him or trying to preach, but just sharing your story perhaps? But I think it would need to be in another relaxed setting, say on a party, so that he doesn’t feel pressured into talking with you. I would keep it very light and no pressure…. and only if he shows interest.

Additionally, I don’t have kids myself, so I might not be the right person to give advice

Well, you’ve got your coolness 🙂 As I said above, if there is a chance to meet again in a relaxed setting, then perhaps you could nonchalantly approach him and have a chat. But I wouldn’t force anything, and wouldn’t make it a “mission” of mine to save him. You are doing enough already…