Dear humour,

But I am also proud of the individual I have turned out to be, considering the circumstances that we went through. Basically I did not end up a complete failure or a messed up person.

That’s good – you have a healthy dose of self-love and self-acceptance. You’re not hating yourself, which is great! You have an optimistic outlook too, which is also an asset. So yes, you should be proud of yourself!

But I also feel I have the ego body of a child and not that of an adult.

That’s because there is a child part in you (the so-called inner child), who got emotionally wounded due to his experiences growing up in an unhappy home. This child needs to have his core emotional needs met… before you can have healthy adult relationships.

I am definitely after more happiness, fulfillment, career success and so on but I either don’t know what to do to attain it or I don’t know how much is enough.

Well, what you have now is not enough…. Let me give you an example. You mentioned this situation at work:

I am also trying to get comfortable in uncomfortable situations, especially at work where I am put down subtly.

Should you get comfortable that people put you down (perhaps grow a thicker skin, ignore, numb your anger…), or you should develop assertiveness and boundaries and not allow those put-downs?

If you say you should get more comfortable accepting what you shouldn’t accept – it means one part of you wins (the submissive, enduring part, who believes he doesn’t deserve more).

If you say you should show up differently and respect yourself more and set boundaries so people wouldn’t mistreat you –  that’s when another part of your wins.

That’s the conflict I was talking about….

Dear humour,

I am sorry you feel bad about yourself and that your self-confidence is quite low. I’ve taken a look at some of your earlier threads, and what you wrote about your family and growing up (in the thread “Require advice on how to gracefully accept changes without getting overwhelmed”) could actually explain why you feel so low now.

Anita already noticed back then one important thing that you’ve said:

I have been extremely attached to my family always trying to make ours ‘a happy family. It never happened though. No matter how much I tried, nothing got better.

Also, you haven’t really spent fun time together as a family, making nice memories, or simply bonding with each other:

We have not spent time together, not had a meal together, never went on a vacation together. Basically we never made any memories

You also said that both you, your sister and your mother felt depressed on and off.

It seems to me that your depression could be the result of you trying so hard to make your parents happy, but never succeeding. This causes the child (and later adult) to have low self-esteem, because if nothing they’ve tried made their parents happy, the child concludes that it must be their fault. So you end up believing you’re not good enough, that you are somehow defective.

And you carry this false belief into your adulthood…. As an adult, you have been putting yourself down a lot, right? For example now, you’ve been telling yourself that you are mediocre, that you are falling behind in life, that you should have done a lot better.

It seems you have a strong inner critic, who is telling you that you’re not good enough, maybe even that you’re a failure.

Do you resonate with any of this?

(If you do, the antidote is self-love and self-compassion. It’s possible to feel better!)

Dear Pradeep,

when someone is addicted, it’s usually to soothe some sort of emotional pain, usually the pain of feeling unlovable or unworthy. It could be that your son doesn’t have a too high self-esteem and feels like a failure, specially now, since he has had a fallout at his previous job. The pressure to find something else, plus living with his parents, who have expectations from him, could be adding to his feeling bad about himself, feeling like a failure.

You may not be aware of it, but your words show that you still see him a child, because you said “I sent him to a therapist.” You didn’t say “I suggested he visits a therapist”. Again, you may not be aware of it, because you want the best for your son, but he won’t be helped if you see him as an unruly child who needs to be disciplined. It will only cause him to feel worse about himself and go deeper into addiction.

Rather, if you would see him as an adult and show that you value him and think highly of him, this will much more likely change his attitude. Because as I said, him feeling bad about himself, feeling like a failure, is what most probably causes his addiction. So try to talk to him with empathy and understanding, and show support for him, tell him that you believe in him, even though you understand that it’s hard for him at the moment. And then see if anything changes in his attitude… But try to be honest, don’t fake your good will and support.

If nothing changes and he is still waking up at 2 pm every day, then you can set some boundaries and some rules, e.g. tell him that you won’t be able to let him stay at your house and to move out. But use the tough approach only if the soft approach doesn’t work out. First use the soft approach – it will do good to your son, and to the relationship between the two of you!

Dear Katrine,

thank you for clarifying!

So it was another colleague who you talked with after the yoga date, not X.

And when all of you went to the pub in July, it was only one evening, not two evenings in a row. X and Y found out that you liked him only later. So they didn’t help you get together with him, however they seem to have been supportive. They knew about your date with him at the pub, and they seem to have rooted for you. Later X invited both of you to her housewarming party, but he couldn’t come, right?

I don’t think they could have or should have done more in terms of helping you get together with him, since he was in fact showing initiative towards you. There was no need for their “nudging”…

So when you say that they promised to help you out, but haven’t done anything – well, there was no need to help you out since you and the guy were already in direct contact, and there was no need for a “matchmaker”, so to speak…

 

I was too fast to react to not being invited out for drinks that day (they have asked me to join for drinks after work but I have been so exhausted after work that I said no a couple of times.

It’s good that you’re realizing that they didn’t want to exclude you intentionally, but that several times you actually refused to go because you were tired after work. And when you did go to a club (which you don’t like due to partying, heavy drinking and loud music), you left early, after only one or two hours. So I guess they figured you’re not a party animal like them 🙂

But that doesn’t mean they think less of you, or don’t like you, as you previously concluded. I think they simply respect that you are a different type, you prefer pubs and a calmer atmosphere, where you can actually talk to people and not get drunk. Based on what you’ve shared, I don’t think there is any evidence that they don’t like you or think less of you. They actually seem kind, they asked for your Instagram and complimented on your hair… and later they rooted for you to get together with him. I don’t see any ill will on their part.

I felt very hurt by not being asked and that feeling just stayed for me for a long time. I really didn’t feel included

Yes I can imagine, because your childhood wound got triggered. When there is a wound like that, it distorts our perception and all we can see is rejection, although in reality, there is no rejection. These girls don’t look down on you, they don’t think you are less worthy… but you still concluded that, because your childhood experiences made you believe that you are unworthy. That’s one of your core false beliefs, i.e. false conclusions about yourself.

Regarding the guy, he is certainly an enigma and I can see how his behavior drove you crazy… because he is like hot and cold, giving you mixed signals, and he seems to be still doing that (e.g. by standing next to you, not saying anything).  Really frustrating!

I just wonder – you said you didn’t reply to his messages after he started talking about his anxiety. Is it because you felt rejected, and so you felt there is no point in continuing the conversation?

Dear lko9,

I am mostly fine, but have chronic knee problems, which won’t go away anytime soon… I’ve learned to accept it, and as I accepted it, it’s more bearable, I mean even the physical pain isn’t that bad. For the time being, I can live with it… we’ll see what the future brings…

He encouraged me for my MBA degree and helped me see my qualities, also encouraged my writing when nobody else did.

That’s nice. Yes, I remember you said he was supportive of you, believed in you, even admired you…. but he didn’t believe in himself or value himself… and so he let those demons take over his life, they made him selfish and inconsiderate towards you…

Well, it’s good that you could forgive him and wish him all happiness. If you ever come into temptation to try to save him again, please remember that it is mission impossible… because no one can save him but himself. I feel like an overprotective aunt for mentioning it, but just in case, couldn’t help myself 🙂

Dear Katrine,

I am glad that our conversation is helping you!

I wanted to understand the behavior of your receptionist colleague/friend a little better, so I went back and went through some of your earlier posts in this thread. And I took a lot of notes, so this will be long 🙂

So if I understood well, it all started in June or July, when your receptionist friend and your other friend, who works with you at the café (the latter used to be your roommate, right?) – invited you to go to a pub with them. At that time they still didn’t know you liked him. I don’t know if I got this right, but it seems you went with them two days in a row, and on the second day, they invited him too:

The first day we all went to a pub together (before they knew i liked him) they invited me to go with them (which made me happy that they asked me) the day after they told the cute guy that we were going to a pub with me and two other boys and if he liked to join which he did. He already had plans that day but joined us and even stayed with us even though he had to be with the others. He looked at me and said that this was very nice and we should definitly do it again which i agreed on. So I really thought we would do that again but didn’t happen.

I haven’t understood if you confided in those 2 girls already at your first night out, and that’s why they invited him the following day? Or you told them only later?

In any case, after you told them, they commented that he was sending you good signals (i.e. they believed you have a chance), and promised to help you out:

They said some months ago that he was sending me good signals and that they would help me out with him because of my anxiety, but they never did.

During July and August, he was showing interest in you: he was inquiring about you at your colleague who works at the café, then he invited you to the pub (that’s when you left without saying goodbye). A while later he invited you to go for a beer after work, then he came to your housewarming party, and in September, you both were at someone else’s housewarming party.

On all those occasions he was showing interest in you, and it seems that the “fallout” at the pub (when you left without saying goodbye) didn’t have a major impact. Eventually, on Sept 19 (if I am counting right), you had the yoga date.

Your receptionist colleague knew about the upcoming date and was asking you about it every day:

The girl who added pressure kept asking me about him everyday, and saying things like if nothing happens on this first date you move on and forget about him. If it doesn’t happen now it never will you are too different.

I am thinking that she was basically rooting for you, but might have had some doubts since nothing had happened between you and the guy up until that point, even though there were quite a few opportunities. Maybe that’s why she said “if nothing happens now, it never will”. She was keen to know what was going on, and was texting you before the date, and this made you even more nervous.

Some time after the date, you met with her, and you talked it over:

I went out for drinks with drinks with a female colleague and she gave me some good pointers as well. She works with him and she has never seen him awkward and anxious with anyone. She said that my text after the date was defensive and that that would make the person on the other end defensive. At the time I thought it sounded good and that it would make him take a step forward. Now not so much. We also talked about the fact that i am too avoident in my flirting (i am basically just shut down and ignore someone) cuz i feel it is so obvious that i am anxious around them because i like them i can’t expect people to read minds. And men also needs to know that if the are putting themselves out there and making advance to a women that it is received well.

And she made a point that we are both indirect people (to protect ourselves) which makes sense with our back ground. But it also means that there are a lot of misunderstandings. She pointed out a lot of examples of his indirect ways of trying to spend time with me, but I didn’t catch on to it because he wasn’t direct enough. So learning to communicate and be authentic and vulnerable is better than to expect people to read minds. Just because i know why i am reacting a certain way doesn’t mean that other people knows why i am acting that way.

I think it’s nice of her that she talked it over with you. Her opinion was that the text you sent him after the date was defensive and that it might have repelled him. She pointed out many occasions when he showed interest in you but you didn’t pick it up. She also gave you some pointers on how to better show that you are interested in someone.

Based on that conversation, conversation with some other friends and the advice you received here on the forum, you decided you want to try it once again: you decided to let him know you like him and to also apologize for your anxious behavior previously.

You sent him a message, but he unfortunately rejected you again. He was kind and polite, but nevertheless he said no.

After that, it could be that your receptionist colleague realized that there is no chance between you and him. Maybe that’s why she didn’t invite you to go to drinks with them, because she knew you were very sad and heartbroken? So perhaps this was her attempt to be considerate?

In the following weeks after the yoga date, it seems she went back to business-as-usual (partying and drinking with him and the gang – which they have been doing for months). It could be that in her view, the story between you and him was just an episode, in which she was interested and even wanted to help you out while it lasted. But since it ended, she isn’t thinking about it any more. She started behaving like before, without considering your feelings too much.

This also shows she isn’t really a close friend, because a close friend would be more considerate and would be checking with you, asking you how you are. It seems she is rather a colleague, with whom you can mostly have a superficial relationship.

I wouldn’t say she is a bad person though, and I don’t think she is insincere as I thought earlier – but simply she has her own life and doesn’t pay much attention to what is going on with you emotionally.

You say that nowadays you feel better when she isn’t around. It’s probably because you feel resentment towards her, you feel that she betrayed you. In reality, I don’t see a huge betrayal on her part. She was at some point interested in the success of your relationship and wanted to help you, but since nothing came out of it, she probably stopped thinking about it.

Anyway, I think it would help if you would re-evaluate her actions, and perhaps try to see things from her perspective. Also, maybe see her not as a close friend, but as a colleague. If you change your expectations towards her, I think things would be easier and you wouldn’t feel so betrayed.

What do you say?

Dear Neera,

it’s a pleasure to hear from you again! I am glad that you’ve finally moved out from your parents’ place into your new home. Congratulations!! And also, that the relationship with your boyfriend is good again, without the tensions you’ve experienced at your parents’ house.

She always says its because of my sister and I that she stayed but now that we are much older, much more independent, and she still chooses to stay, I am not sure I believe her when she said it was for us.

Most likely it wasn’t for you and your sister. And the proof indeed is that she chose to stay for all these years, whereas the relationship between your parents improved (at least on the surface) only recently, as you say.

I think you’re right when you say that they got better at not triggering each other, i.e. walking on eggshells around each other. In order to maintain a semblance of “harmony” in a dysfunctional relationship, one needs to accept certain rules of the game. I think what also keeps them “united” is that they both blame you. Projecting blame on you, scapegoating you, enables them to wash off the responsibility from themselves and keep the status quo.

It seems your father shows loyalty to your mother by taking her side in conflicts, blaming you for everything, and expecting you to take the blame and apologize to your mother. This is how he shows his “love” and “support” for your mother. I think this is a part of how their dysfunctional relationship is still surviving.

In fact, it seems this has been happening a lot in the past: you bowed down and took the blame, so there could be “peace” at home:

I have apologized many times in the past to keep things peaceful at home, and within myself

Your parents would coerce you into apologizing and taking the blame, even though your mother was verbally and emotionally abusing you. You said that whenever you tried to talk to her and point out at some things, she refused all your arguments and would attack you by name calling, swearing, yelling… After each argument, she would give you silent treatment. It was her who felt “wronged” and “harmed” by you. You were the villain, and she was the victim.

Your father took her side, and insisted that indeed, you were the villain and she was victim, and that you should apologize. So not only did you suffer abuse by your mother, but also by your father, who took her side. They both coerced you into submission, and they wouldn’t rest until you gave in. Because after each argument, your mother was giving you silent treatment (which is a form of emotional abuse), whereas your father was pressuring you to apologize. So, covert coercion by your mother, and overt coercion by your father.

You of course couldn’t bear to live under such pressure – with both parents emotionally blackmailing you – and you gave in. You alone couldn’t go against both of them, specially because you doubted yourself too. A part of you believed (and still believes) that they are right: their behavior sometimes makes me feel as if I am wrong, and unworthy, and undeserving of love.

You said each such argument caused you terrible anxiety. And no wonder, because it was both of your parents riling up against you. In order to keep peace at home and peace “within yourself”, you gave in to their coercion. You took the blame and apologized… and then things went to normal for a while… until the next time you tried to question your mother.

This time I cannot apologize for standing my ground against aggression. I cannot tolerate such things.

Good! You were exposed to both of your parents’ aggression all of your childhood and youth. It’s great that you’ve started seeing it for what it is, and that you refuse to bow down and apologize for something that is absolutely not your fault.

You don’t need to accept their verbal and emotional aggression any more. You don’t need to take the blame and apologize for standing up for yourself (or other family members whom they choose to attack).

There are still moments in the day where I feel very sad. Sad because I want to have a good relationship with my parents, but feeling tired and hopeless because I do not know how to continue.

I understand your sadness… we as children always want a good relationship with our parents, we crave for their love and support, we crave to bond with them….

But what if the reality is different? What if you cannot have a good relationship with your parents? Because so far, the only way to have a semblance of a “normal” relationship with them was to shut up, take the blame and admit that you are wrong. If you refuse to do that any more, I think only a very superficial relationship is possible, because they don’t show any willingness to change.