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Tee
ParticipantDear humour,
My concern is I don’t know what is “normal” in any situation.
I think this is also related to you not being in touch with your needs. Because a “normal” reaction would be to treat people with kindness and respect, but not allow to be put down, disrespected and abused. To have so-called flexible boundaries: to be open and welcoming with people, but if needed, to protected yourself. Or to be caring and willing to help, but not allow to be exploited. So a healthy balance.
If you don’t know what “normal” is, I think it means you don’t know where you boundaries are, i.e. you don’t know what is acceptable to you and what is not.
I am just musing here… let me know if this makes sense to you.
Tee
ParticipantDear humour,
I am definitely after more happiness, fulfillment, career success and so on but I either don’t know what to do to attain it or I don’t know how much is enough.
OK, let me ask you this: you know when you’re hungry, right? And you know when you’re full, when you don’t need more food in your system? If so, it means that you’re in touch with your physiological needs, such as eating, sleeping, etc.
However, it seems that you’re not in touch with your emotional needs. You are in touch with the needs of others – and you like to help them (I am grateful for my ability to be of help to others). However, you don’t know what YOU yourself need.
For example, do you need a hug, do you need to be talked to nicely, do you need to be seen and heard, do you need to be respected, do you need to be acknowledged…. all those are our core emotional needs. And it seems you have suppressed them in the course of your growing up, because you felt you needed to meet the needs of your family first.
Because the child – a capable, intelligent and strong child – believes that he can help their parents feel better, make them happy, make them less sad, or make them less angry… The child believes he has that kind of power, and so tries to meet his parents’ emotional needs, instead of his own.
In fact, he suppresses his own needs. He says to himself : “I’ll be fine”, “I don’t need much”, “I shouldn’t disturb my mother with my problems, she is so burdened”, “I shouldn’t make my mother any more sad, she is so weak and fragile”. Etc etc.
You see? You focus all your attention on your loved ones, and almost completely disregard your own needs. And it has been going like that for years and years…. The result is that you don’t even know what you need, or what you want.
I am definitely after more happiness, fulfillment, career success and so on but I either don’t know what to do to attain it or I don’t know how much is enough
Before you can actually set some goals for success and fulfillment in either professional or personal arena, you would need to get in touch with your core emotional needs. You would need to turn your attention inwards, rather than outwards.
We can talk about it more, if this resonates…
Tee
ParticipantDear farnaz,
I agree with anita: don’t force yourself to forgive someone before you have expressed and processed your anger (and if someone abused you or tried to take advantage of you, your anger is justified!).
I like how anita put it: don’t try to forgive them before you “listen to the message in your anger” and “fully understand what they did to you, that it was wrong to do it to you, that you didn’t deserve it, and that the Wrong belongs to Them, not to You“.
Only when we understand and can articulate the person’s wrong-doing, and express our anger in a safe environment (not to their face, but in a safe environment, either of our own home, or in therapy) – I think that only then can we say with fortitude: I won’t let this happen again! Only then can we draw our boundaries clearly and stand by them.
And when that happens – once we’re clear on what we won’t allow anymore, i.e. what are our boundaries – I think this is what opens us up for forgiveness. Something like: I forgive what you’ve done to me, but I’ll never let you do that to me again! Standing with clarity and determination to not allow to be abused again.
I haven’t thought about it before, but it seems to me that this is what processing anger really means: first feel it, understand it, express it (safely), make a decision to not let it happen again i.e. to from now on protect your boundaries, and then – forgive.
Tee
ParticipantDear farnaz,
you’re welcome!
i am stronger now and i prefer to be alone than in bad company
You’re right! Better be alone than get involved with bad people out of desperation.
i have a question for you , how many of people who you needed to forgive for any reason are still in your life ?for me most of them gone for good .
Well, my mother is one such person. She is very critical of me and likes to blame me while refusing any responsibility of her own. As I have been working on myself, I’ve put up some defenses and boundaries, to protect myself from her. About a year ago I complained about a physical pain I had, and she accused me of being a hypochondriac and used the opportunity to send some more criticism my way. So she used my vulnerability and my honest sharing to hurt me. That’s when I decided I’ll never again be vulnerable around her, and I’ll never again expect any empathy from her.
But we do stay in a superficial contact. In fact we rarely speak nowadays because I live in another country, and I mostly speak with my father on the phone. So our contact is minimal but it still exists.
I’ve also forgiven my father, who was her enabler and failed to protect me from my mother’s toxicity. But he hurt me much less than she did…
And I’ve also forgiven a relative of mine, who is a fun person to be around, but sometimes doesn’t care about other people and only cares about her own needs. But I don’t want to lose a friendship with her, so I decided not to expect much from her, but to enjoy her company when we meet once or twice per year.
I actually don’t believe people who were deceitful would stay once you saw through them.
Yes, deceitful people don’t like to be “seen through”. Fortunately I’ve never had experience with deceitful people, only with very critical people (my mother). But in both cases, we need to set boundaries to protect ourselves…
Tee
ParticipantDear humour,
I wanted to add one more thing:
I feel sad about all the wasted years of my life. I wish I could go back in time and change many things.
You cannot change your past, but you can change the negative patterns and beliefs you adopted because of your past, and which define your present and your future.
In other words, you cannot undo your past, but you can undo the consequences it has on you in the present…
And you still have many years ahead of you. You’re in your mid 30s, right? You can create the life you want, if you give yourself permission to.
Tee
ParticipantDear humour,
But I am also proud of the individual I have turned out to be, considering the circumstances that we went through. Basically I did not end up a complete failure or a messed up person.
That’s good – you have a healthy dose of self-love and self-acceptance. You’re not hating yourself, which is great! You have an optimistic outlook too, which is also an asset. So yes, you should be proud of yourself!
But I also feel I have the ego body of a child and not that of an adult.
That’s because there is a child part in you (the so-called inner child), who got emotionally wounded due to his experiences growing up in an unhappy home. This child needs to have his core emotional needs met… before you can have healthy adult relationships.
I am definitely after more happiness, fulfillment, career success and so on but I either don’t know what to do to attain it or I don’t know how much is enough.
Well, what you have now is not enough…. Let me give you an example. You mentioned this situation at work:
I am also trying to get comfortable in uncomfortable situations, especially at work where I am put down subtly.
Should you get comfortable that people put you down (perhaps grow a thicker skin, ignore, numb your anger…), or you should develop assertiveness and boundaries and not allow those put-downs?
If you say you should get more comfortable accepting what you shouldn’t accept – it means one part of you wins (the submissive, enduring part, who believes he doesn’t deserve more).
If you say you should show up differently and respect yourself more and set boundaries so people wouldn’t mistreat you – that’s when another part of your wins.
That’s the conflict I was talking about….
Tee
ParticipantDear humour,
You are very welcome. This is good to hear:
I have gotten a lot better at self-love and self-compassion which makes me proud of myself
However (and I may sound like a nuisance for bringing this up), it seems you had a similarly optimistic and cheerful attitude in your last post, more than 5 years ago. This is what you wrote then:
I am really grateful that I am in a much better place compared to several other people. There is food on the table everyday, a roof above our head, a job. I am grateful for all this.
I should ve been a happy healthy individual at my age. I’ll work on it now. I want to be joyous, healthy and have fun
This is very similar to what you wrote now in your reply: that you are grateful for many things and that you’ll work on yourself. However, more than 5 years have passed, and you still feel low self-confidence, and you struggle to find purpose “in many arenas of your life”.
So something doesn’t compute here, humour. This is absolutely not to judge you – by no means – just to tell you what I am seeing. Which is that even though you are grateful for many things, still many other things are missing from your life, right? And that it’s okay to want those things and look for ways to get them…
It seems to me there is a conflict in you: on one hand you want more, but on the other you tell yourself that you shouldn’t want more (more happiness, fulfillment, career success), and that you should be grateful for what you already have. That way you’re actually blocking yourself from reaching what you want…
How do you feel about this? Would say there is some truth in it?
Tee
ParticipantDear humour,
I am sorry you feel bad about yourself and that your self-confidence is quite low. I’ve taken a look at some of your earlier threads, and what you wrote about your family and growing up (in the thread “Require advice on how to gracefully accept changes without getting overwhelmed”) could actually explain why you feel so low now.
Anita already noticed back then one important thing that you’ve said:
I have been extremely attached to my family always trying to make ours ‘a happy family. It never happened though. No matter how much I tried, nothing got better.
Also, you haven’t really spent fun time together as a family, making nice memories, or simply bonding with each other:
We have not spent time together, not had a meal together, never went on a vacation together. Basically we never made any memories
You also said that both you, your sister and your mother felt depressed on and off.
It seems to me that your depression could be the result of you trying so hard to make your parents happy, but never succeeding. This causes the child (and later adult) to have low self-esteem, because if nothing they’ve tried made their parents happy, the child concludes that it must be their fault. So you end up believing you’re not good enough, that you are somehow defective.
And you carry this false belief into your adulthood…. As an adult, you have been putting yourself down a lot, right? For example now, you’ve been telling yourself that you are mediocre, that you are falling behind in life, that you should have done a lot better.
It seems you have a strong inner critic, who is telling you that you’re not good enough, maybe even that you’re a failure.
Do you resonate with any of this?
(If you do, the antidote is self-love and self-compassion. It’s possible to feel better!)
Tee
ParticipantDear farnaz,
I’d like to reply to your question about forgiveness vs trust. I agree that trust is a step further than forgiveness:
by forgiving and trusting , i mean with people who are in your life who hurt you in the past , but still are in your life and you want them to be in your life once you forgive them can you trust them again ? i think trust some step further than forgiveness
Yes, it is. Dr. Henry Cloud, psychotherapist and author of a bestseller book “Boundaries”, described it nicely: “Forgiveness is free, trust is earned.”
Meaning that we should forgive everyone, no matter how badly they’ve harmed us. Because by forgiving them, we free ourselves from the grudge and anger and hatred that is toxic for us. By forgiving them, we are free to move on.
However, that doesn’t mean that we should remain in a relationship with those people or trust them. Because if they haven’t changed, if they haven’t apologized for their wrong-doings, there is no point in trusting them. It would be naive and even harmful to ourselves.
but people who did one mistake and try to somehow make up for that . do u trust them again ?
If the person realized their wrong-doing and apologized (but sincerely apologized, with the intention not to do it again), then you can open up to them and sort of soften your protection a little bit. To use a metaphor, you don’t wear a full armor around them, but you take some of it off.
You make yourself a little vulnerable, e.g. you share about some worry or problem of yours, and then see what they do with that information. If they use it against you, you put on your armor again and don’t trust them again. If they are kind and supportive and don’t misuse your vulnerability, you can open yourself a little more next time. Over time, if they are consistently supportive and don’t betray you, you can say that they’ve earned your trust.
Dr. Cloud talks about it in a youtube video titled “Forgiveness does not require trust.” He is a Christian based psychotherapist and mentions God, but he talks about universal principles. The part about trust starts at min 10:20.
Tee
ParticipantDear Pradeep,
when someone is addicted, it’s usually to soothe some sort of emotional pain, usually the pain of feeling unlovable or unworthy. It could be that your son doesn’t have a too high self-esteem and feels like a failure, specially now, since he has had a fallout at his previous job. The pressure to find something else, plus living with his parents, who have expectations from him, could be adding to his feeling bad about himself, feeling like a failure.
You may not be aware of it, but your words show that you still see him a child, because you said “I sent him to a therapist.” You didn’t say “I suggested he visits a therapist”. Again, you may not be aware of it, because you want the best for your son, but he won’t be helped if you see him as an unruly child who needs to be disciplined. It will only cause him to feel worse about himself and go deeper into addiction.
Rather, if you would see him as an adult and show that you value him and think highly of him, this will much more likely change his attitude. Because as I said, him feeling bad about himself, feeling like a failure, is what most probably causes his addiction. So try to talk to him with empathy and understanding, and show support for him, tell him that you believe in him, even though you understand that it’s hard for him at the moment. And then see if anything changes in his attitude… But try to be honest, don’t fake your good will and support.
If nothing changes and he is still waking up at 2 pm every day, then you can set some boundaries and some rules, e.g. tell him that you won’t be able to let him stay at your house and to move out. But use the tough approach only if the soft approach doesn’t work out. First use the soft approach – it will do good to your son, and to the relationship between the two of you!
Tee
ParticipantDear Addy,
great that you are meditating and exercising daily. Never mind that it’s a short meditation or a light exercise – they’re good for your physical and mental health, and since you’re doing them regularly, that’s what really matters!
Besides a light walk (my knee allowing 🙂 ), I also practice self-observation daily: I notice when something triggers me, and if it’s a bigger thing and I have insights about it, I write it down in a journal. It helps me get clarity on myself and also to regulate my emotions. And it actually helps me feel better in general, because after having processed the trigger (emotionally) and understood what it was about, I tend to feel better.
Tee
ParticipantDear Katrine,
thank you for clarifying!
So it was another colleague who you talked with after the yoga date, not X.
And when all of you went to the pub in July, it was only one evening, not two evenings in a row. X and Y found out that you liked him only later. So they didn’t help you get together with him, however they seem to have been supportive. They knew about your date with him at the pub, and they seem to have rooted for you. Later X invited both of you to her housewarming party, but he couldn’t come, right?
I don’t think they could have or should have done more in terms of helping you get together with him, since he was in fact showing initiative towards you. There was no need for their “nudging”…
So when you say that they promised to help you out, but haven’t done anything – well, there was no need to help you out since you and the guy were already in direct contact, and there was no need for a “matchmaker”, so to speak…
I was too fast to react to not being invited out for drinks that day (they have asked me to join for drinks after work but I have been so exhausted after work that I said no a couple of times.
It’s good that you’re realizing that they didn’t want to exclude you intentionally, but that several times you actually refused to go because you were tired after work. And when you did go to a club (which you don’t like due to partying, heavy drinking and loud music), you left early, after only one or two hours. So I guess they figured you’re not a party animal like them 🙂
But that doesn’t mean they think less of you, or don’t like you, as you previously concluded. I think they simply respect that you are a different type, you prefer pubs and a calmer atmosphere, where you can actually talk to people and not get drunk. Based on what you’ve shared, I don’t think there is any evidence that they don’t like you or think less of you. They actually seem kind, they asked for your Instagram and complimented on your hair… and later they rooted for you to get together with him. I don’t see any ill will on their part.
I felt very hurt by not being asked and that feeling just stayed for me for a long time. I really didn’t feel included
Yes I can imagine, because your childhood wound got triggered. When there is a wound like that, it distorts our perception and all we can see is rejection, although in reality, there is no rejection. These girls don’t look down on you, they don’t think you are less worthy… but you still concluded that, because your childhood experiences made you believe that you are unworthy. That’s one of your core false beliefs, i.e. false conclusions about yourself.
Regarding the guy, he is certainly an enigma and I can see how his behavior drove you crazy… because he is like hot and cold, giving you mixed signals, and he seems to be still doing that (e.g. by standing next to you, not saying anything). Really frustrating!
I just wonder – you said you didn’t reply to his messages after he started talking about his anxiety. Is it because you felt rejected, and so you felt there is no point in continuing the conversation?
Tee
ParticipantDear Julia,
That’s the thing I also judge most on other (family members, especially my parents).
Alright, so if I understood you right, you also judge your parents for being slackers/non-achievers?
I don’t know if it would necessarily “prove [my] worth” (to whom?) rather than just make me something else (than my parents?) than boring, I don’t know, hard to put into words
If you were to achieve something special, you feel you would be better than your parents, who are slackers/non-achievers/boring/lost in the crowd?
If so, it could be that you didn’t have too much excitement in your childhood, that you didn’t get much stimulation from your parents (in terms of playing games, doing fun things together), and so you felt bored…. and also boring, because they didn’t encourage you to show your brilliance, your gifts and talents? Do you resonate with any of this, or it is off track?
Tee
ParticipantDear lko9,
I am mostly fine, but have chronic knee problems, which won’t go away anytime soon… I’ve learned to accept it, and as I accepted it, it’s more bearable, I mean even the physical pain isn’t that bad. For the time being, I can live with it… we’ll see what the future brings…
He encouraged me for my MBA degree and helped me see my qualities, also encouraged my writing when nobody else did.
That’s nice. Yes, I remember you said he was supportive of you, believed in you, even admired you…. but he didn’t believe in himself or value himself… and so he let those demons take over his life, they made him selfish and inconsiderate towards you…
Well, it’s good that you could forgive him and wish him all happiness. If you ever come into temptation to try to save him again, please remember that it is mission impossible… because no one can save him but himself. I feel like an overprotective aunt for mentioning it, but just in case, couldn’t help myself 🙂
Tee
ParticipantDear lk09,
believe it or not, I was thinking about you the other day, and thought to ping you around Christmas… but anita was faster 🙂
I am glad you’re doing fine and are satisfied with you new job, which pays better. And that you had a chance to go on a 3-week workcation. I can imagine beaches in India are amazing! Also glad that you made new friends! (no potential candidates among them, huh? 🙂 )
But the thing is I needed to experience him when I did. I believe we are meant to meet people at a certain point in time to make certain incidents happen. I would perhaps have no financial standing even now had I not met him.
You mean he encouraged you to study for your masters degree, and so now you can get better paying jobs? Sorry, I don’t remember it clearly, but I do remember you mentioned something like that…
Otherwise, well, we are attracted to certain people because we have some emotional wounds… and we might stay for too long in the relationship, because of those wounds… But if learn from those experiences and not repeat them, it’s all good. They have served their purpose.
Am I healed? No, I feel like I have a lot of demons but I need some more time before I hear them patiently.
Hmmm, I wouldn’t say you have demons. It was he who had them, in form of addictions…. I’d rather say you have wounds… But I don’t want to go deeper into heavy topics, unless you’d want me to.
If you feel that what I wrote this summer is mostly true, then I hope that you will go into your next relationship with more assertiveness and self-respect. Not to allow the same patterns to repeat again. You are precious and worthy, don’t forget that! And you have the right to be with a man who will see you and treat you that way.
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