Dear Candice88,

how are you? Any progress with the moving out and couple’s therapy?

Dear Jisoo,

Teak, he never showed signs of withdrawing

I mentioned that because you said he would be calling and chatting with you all the time during the week, and then practically disappear on the weekends:

He would text non stop , call multiple times, share pics whole of the week and it suddenly reduces on the weekend. One or 2 msgs , calls very rarely. So this type of hot cold treatment drove me nuts and my mental state was bad…resulting in either crying or shouting.

That’s what I meant by withdrawing – that he would withdraw his care and attention at times. But you’re right, it would be more accurate to say that he was hot and cold: sometimes very close, sometimes disappearing on you. So he sent you mixed signals.

lost my husband suddenly few years ago, right in front of my eyes.

i witnessed my life collapsing in a matter of seconds and now not really invested in any relationship completely. i am scared it may end suddenly , same thoughts w.r.t my family members too.

Losing your husband so suddenly, in front of your eyes, is a huge trauma. No wonder you are now anxious about suddenly losing those you care about. You are anxious about losing them, but at the same time are trying to be detached, to protect yourself from a potential horrible loss in the future.

Its only me who is there/not there, talk good one day/cry one day, put boundaries/remove them ..lot of such stuff.

Well, it was also him who was there and not there. As far as I understood, you were always there for him, you always sought contact, and even a deeper bond, but he was the one who was rejecting it. He did it either by physically disappearing on you, e.g. not being available on the weekends, or by rejecting a romantic relationship in spite of showing care and affection for you otherwise. He was playing you, that’s for sure.

You were probably trying to protect yourself by putting some boundaries, by trying to set some rules of behavior (e.g. you made him show you his home), perhaps by rejecting his advances sometimes. But you didn’t really succeed to stay away, because it felt so good when he would talk to you. When he was available and giving you attention, it was wonderful, it felt like home. But when he would withdraw, it felt horrible and you felt abandoned.

I wonder if you experienced this same hot-cold dynamic in your childhood, with your parents, or it’s something that only got triggered now, after your husband’s death?

Hi Murtaza,

you were hurt and suffering as a child. Here you described it:

i got a mother who knows nothing about life, a father who lived in his room the whole time i was alive, a brother that used to bully me, my childhood friend almost molested me, a teenage years where i did some horrible things, things i don’t even like to think about, i spent my whole childhood and teenage with shame, i don’t even wanna say for what, because its too unpleasant and no one wants to hear it, i failed at school and i blamed myself so hard, no one cared, my mother blamed me, shamed me, a god that tells you to be greatful for your awful parents, to be greatful for being alive, thankful, i had so much shame when i sinned, so much that i hated myself so much,

Here is you trauma and your wound (described in simplified terms, but nevertheless): lack of love, compassion and understanding for you, inflicted upon you by your parents, your older siblings, your relatives (you mentioned your uncle), your friends, and the entire society. You were blamed, shamed, bullied and mistreated by people who were supposed to love you, and their mistreatment was condoned and encouraged by the society, because in your society, you need to respect the elders no matter what they do to you. And you need to become what they expect you to become, otherwise you are seen as weak and a loser.

That’s a severe trauma and very hard conditions to live in for a young child and a teen. No wonder you broke down and developed extreme shame and anxiety. No wonder you felt trapped and helpless, because there was no one to turn for help, or the help you were getting was inadequate.

You couldn’t bear the shame, you couldn’t live with it any more, it was killing you. And you also couldn’t bear the loneliness, the lack of love, affection and bonding – all natural human needs that weren’t met in your childhood. That too was killing you. So you found a way to help yourself:

i did something for myself, developed my own philosophy, developed my own way of living, everyone tells me its wrong, everyone tells me its bad, and i should do this and that, fuck them all, i live my way, or not live at all, i don’t care what you or teak or anyone think, you think im victim, sure, go ahead, it doesn’t change anything.

So you found a philosophy that helped you not to feel the intense shame and guilt, that helped you love and accept yourself as worthy, rather than worthless. In this philosophy, you’re not blaming yourself, unlike everyone else blamed you, but you are blaming your genes and the environment. And with this, you are actually loving yourself in a way, because at least you are not blaming yourself. You did find a way to protect your sanity.

And so, I want to acknowledge here that what you did – inventing a philosophy and a worldview which enables you not to feel intense shame and guilt in an extremely shaming and judgmental environment – is something you did out of love for yourself. So yes, this was love, because it protected your sanity and protected you from the judgments of the cruel external world in which you were living.

However, the problem is that your philosophy only dealt with your shame and guilt. You don’t feel shame and guilt any more. But it didn’t help you with your second biggest problem, which is having a loving relationship. It is counter-productive for developing a deeper bond with people, and it shows on this forum as well.

So you would need to understand that what protected you from shame and guilt won’t get you the love you crave (you are trying to reduce your craving and numb yourself, but the desire for connection is still there, and it’s a natural desire, so don’t suppress it).

Your “cure” has its limitations and its very bad side-effects. I and everybody here are suggesting a different cure. A proper cure for your problems, that will eventually help you have satisfying relationships as well. Because with your current approach, you won’t be able to have them.

Hi Murtaza,

And why only anita that i didn’t reject? Because she understood, she had similar experience herself, she accepted, liked me, never projected nor judged, if its a me problem, i wouldn’t find anyone that will agree with me, especially someone that we both know that is intelligent.

anita attended therapy, she knows the power of healing. If she had a similar experience as you, perhaps a similar kind of trauma, and she got better with the help of therapy, then why are you insisting that therapy isn’t for you, and that you don’t need it?

tell me, if i was super nice, super polite, but had the same beliefs and lifestyle, would you like me?

It would be nicer to communicate with you if were polite. But not if you faked politeness, but if you would see that I don’t think I am superior, but that I was sincerely trying to help you. Even if you think this help isn’t applicable to you, you could have told me (or you could have thought for yourself) – thank you, but this isn’t working for me. That would feel much better than telling me that I am brainwashed, that I think you are a loser and all the other stuff. Which is absolutely not true, because I don’t think that I am superior and I don’t think that you are a loser.

So you are projecting stuff on me, and then judging me and condemning me for things I never said or did. Not the best way to keep communicating with people.

Dear Felix,

Yes, i think it’s a good suggestion…but i dont think it’s possible, as if it’s still around within my home country.. i prefer to be at my hometown.

So can you rent an apartment in your hometown? The idea is that you gain some independence from your parents… you don’t need to live far away from them, just not in the same house with them.

However, i also have a feeling that taking online class and studying in my room might be a waste of money….

Yes, I don’t think it would be wise to enroll an online MBA, because it won’t do much for your independence. But in the current situation, with covid, you should be pragmatic and use the time wisely. So you can choose an online course you like, such as learning Chinese. This will give you a sense of accomplishment.

Another thing –  do you think it’s possible to find a part time job in your town at the moment?

I think i’m comparing myself with each of my friends…. And i felt left behind. e.g. this friend is creating her own business, this friend is taking masters…

This is your saboteur again. You don’t want to go down that route. You are a unique individual, with your unique path, unique goals and interests… you won’t be happy living like someone else. We’ve already discussed it, and I wouldn’t like to address that kind of thinking again, because you know why it’s faulty and that it doesn’t lead you anywhere.

Hi Murtaza,

You are offended if I say that your reasoning is partially caused by childhood trauma. But why?

No, that’s not what you said in the past, here i accept this.

Good that we agree on something. I didn’t see earlier that this was one of your main problems with me, but now I see it, because you said it clearly in your last post. So now I see it.

The same thing you doing here, blaming me as if i don’t love myself, your response implies thats its my falut people don’t like me, i have one word, prove it.

I told you why people don’t want to communicate with you – because you rejected everyone (except anita) and in a rather rude and dismissive manner. Those people tried to help you, but you saw it as an attack on you. You believe you love yourself by wanting to stay in your misery. I said there is a way to get out of your misery, which doesn’t include suicide. But you stick to your belief, your strong conviction, that you absolutely love yourself. At the same time, you say you are animal. An animal doesn’t love itself in the way humans do. It wants to survive and procreate. You don’t want to procreate, you expressed it clearly. So how are you an animal?

And why individuality matters to me more then “healing”?

You expressed it before – that you value your uniqueness. And now too, you said “i Choosed to be this person”. You value this persona you created, you love this persona, you identify with it. And if others don’t accept it, you believe they don’t accept you.

Also if i remember correctly, “healing” that you suggested was to love myself in the way you want to, i also remember you saying its impossible without people,

If the person has the intention to heal, they can do a lot of work by themselves, for free. I suggested a lot of quality online resources, but you rejected it all. It doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that you live in Iraq – you too have access to those resources. But you simply don’ want it.

no matter what i say, what excuse i give, what argument i provide, you won’t accept me, nor like me, why bother?

Indeed, it’s important that we first accept ourselves. If you fully and completely accepted yourself, you wouldn’t be looking for acceptance from people online. You wouldn’t want me – a random stranger on the internet – to like you, if you truly liked and loved yourself.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 1 month ago by Tee.

Dear OrangeHeart,

you’re very welcome!

I totally agree, i do think its came from my mum! She gets incredibly angry over nothing all the time, i used to be terrified of her as a child!

Right. You also said that she is quite abusive with your father and puts him down all the time, and that she was the same with you and your sister while you were growing up:

My mum is quite abusive towards my dad and brings him down to nothing at any chance she gets. She done the same with my sister and I growing up, she’s also financially dependent on my dad as she doesn’t work even though she has no reason not to and she does nothing to help around the house, she’s basically like another child!

It appears your mother was/is the “bully” in the family, who terrorizes everyone else. You used to be terrified of her as a child, maybe because she was loud, yelling, perhaps hysterical as well? Your father chose the strategy to appease the bully, or the tyrant, because it seemed easier than to confront her. You chose the same strategy – suppress your own needs and desires and do as the tyrant pleases, in order to keep the peace. Would you say that this is what happened?

I just hope I can change

Yes, you can definitely change this learned mechanism of “appeasing”, and can learn to stand up for yourself! You might need  to do some inner child work, so that you can change the learned behavior more easily.

Dear Dave,

I never thought about her being a perfectionist, because she is so messy, but I guess those don’t have to go together, I assumed that perfectionists would want things clean and tidy.

I guess she is messy at home? But you say she’s never happy with the work the workers or volunteers do in the barn, or how the owners mow the grass, and she has the need to fix it afterwards. She wants to do things “right”. This tells me she isn’t messy but rather precise (or at least she is trying to be like that) when it comes to her work environment. So perhaps there’s a split there – messy at home, tidy/precise at work?

That might be the reason though, but if it is, then is there nothing that I can do to help her?

Yes, I believe she would need to resume therapy, because this doesn’t seem like an issue for couple’s therapy. I mean, you can suggest couple’s therapy, and see where that leads. But you can also try to talk to her about the things that we’ve spoken about here, and how her low self-esteem and feeling of “not being good enough” might be causing some of her behavior. Perhaps try to talk to her and see how she reacts?

• This reply was modified 4 years, 1 month ago by Tee.