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anita.
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November 7, 2025 at 12:01 pm #451645
anitaParticipantDear Tee:
I read your post above first thing this morning, but ran out of time to reply today. I will do so by tomorrow (Sat morning). It’s Friday, early afternoon here ❤️
November 7, 2025 at 1:38 pm #451650
AlessaParticipantHi Anita
I’m sorry to hear that your sister called you to let you know that your mother is dying and that some of her siblings have died too. Was that the uncle who was kind to you? ❤️
I hadn’t read your thread yet or I would have answered you first. ❤️
I hear that there are some complicated feelings for people whose abusers die. It sounds to me like you actually did your best to take care of your mother. But it’s not something that a child can do I’m afraid. Not your fault at all that you were a child who tried your best. ❤️
Sometimes people feel relief when their abusers die. I hope it is not in bad taste to say that I hope in part it might bring you at least some sense of relief for the horror to finally be permanently over one day. I only say that because you truly deserve peace. ❤️
Please be gentle with yourself in these difficult times and take extra special care of yourself and little girl Anita. You deserve the extra love and support. Despite the difficulties in your relationship with her, death is not an easy thing and can land in strange ways. ❤️
November 7, 2025 at 6:41 pm #451653
anitaParticipantThank you for your empathetic, thoughtful message ❤️ 🙏
I will reply further in the morning (Fri evening here).
November 7, 2025 at 8:08 pm #451656
anitaParticipantI just noticed, Alessa, that I didn’t mention your name above:
Thank you, Alessa, for your empathetic, thoughtful message ❤️ 🙏.
More tomorrow.
Anita
November 8, 2025 at 1:41 am #451657
TeeParticipantDear Anita,
here’s a reply to your second post, as promised…
while talking with her I noticed that I was not afraid, not even close to how afraid I was before, and I had it in mind- while on the call- to tell you about it later.
I’m really happy to hear this, Anita. It probably means some shift has happened within you, and it’s wonderful news!
no, but sometime ago, I heard from someone else (and I shared about it in another thread) that she was doing poorly. And I know 2 of her older sisters died, and her older brother (uncle Morris) is doing poorly.
I’m sorry your good uncle is doing poorly… May I ask if you’ve kept in touch with him after you left? But please only answer if you feel comfortable, I don’t want to pry about your family relationships if it feels painful to you…
She didn’t want to face/ couldn’t face her pain, she didn’t own it, she rejected it, or defended herself from the pain by fighting, by attacking me as the alleged source of her pain, the alleged perpetrator? Staying angry, chronically angry (“strong”), she avoided feeling weak..? I need to better understand this. I hope you can help me understand this better.
Yes, I believe she had a lot of unresolved issues within her – having been abused and/or neglected as a child. She probably felt a lot of self-loathing (you said she’d cut out her head from all of her photos), worthlessness, feeling unlovable, but probably also a lot of anger due to her needs not having been met. Due to people abusing her and/or abandoning her. But she wasn’t aware of any of that.
So there was a lot of anger in her at other people, at life. And this anger and rage is what you’ve experienced – she was punishing you for not having been loved and cared for as a child, basically. For having been abused and abandoned.
It’s like when people vent out their rage not at the person who caused that rage (e.g. their boss) but at their loved ones, when they get home. Your mother was venting her anger and rage at you – because that was safe for her to do. She needed to vent it, and you were the perfect recipient, as children usually are: helpless, impressionable, trying to please the parent, easily taking on guilt, etc.
You couldn’t resist her, you couldn’t challenge her, and so she had free reign to dump her anger and rage at you.
I think it gave her two benefits: she felt relief (even for just a short while) from this internal pressure of anger (her being like a pressure cooker, releasing steam all the time). And she also felt good about herself, because she didn’t need to look at herself, but she could blame someone else for her misery.
I read you expressing this before, but I didn’t quite get it until just now. She used her unhappiness, her misery (and overly expressed it.. exaggerated it..?) as a weapon against me? Please help me understand this better..?
Yes, that’s how covert narcissists operate: they complain and pity themselves, and then people try to help them, but they can never be pleased. They keep complaining. They also create a feeling of guilt in people: they blame people for being happy, claiming that they themselves can never be happy because of this or that obstacle, and because life has been so unfair to them.
In short, they always find an excuse to complain, and they use this to guilt-trip people, to wear people down, to keep the attention on themselves and their “woes” and keep people (usually their loved ones) focused on them and having their life revolve around them. So it’s a trap.
But also, if you’re a child to such a parent, it causes you to feel never good enough, to feel worthless, because whatever you try to help your parent, nothing works. Nothing can make your mother happy. So the child feels like a failure.
Her inner child couldn’t help but be there, locked in, trapped. I could see her, but could never reach her. The protector/ attacker was at the gate, allowing no vulnerability/ no access to her inner child.
But I assure you, I saw her trapped in there.
No, I have never seen her open to me, as in close, or intimate. I saw her inner child from behind a locked door. Heard the tone of voice of a girl, the way she drew birds, her handwriting was round, like a child’s.
Right… parts of her personality never matured, and so this was visible in the tone of her voice, her hand-writing, her drawing… but also I guess in her inability to regulate her emotions. She was like a toddler who was screaming all the time, or most of the time, expressing anger at not having things go her way…
I remembered the name of the movie after I told you about it, “Pet Cemetery”. The defensive part of her is the same as the attacking part..?
Yes, I guess her angry protector part – which was spewing anger at you (and others, but less openly) all the time – was trying to protect her inner child from getting hurt again. She saw almost everything as a threat. Everything coming from the outside of her.
Whereas the real threat was inside: those voices that she internalized (e.g. that she is worth loathing), or the false belief that everybody is out to get her – that everybody is trying to hurt her. She was “defending” herself against the imagined threat from the outside, while refusing to deal with the issues on the inside, i.e. with her own psyche.
Her innermost part: a vulnerable, innocent, beautiful little girl; the outer layer.. a demon?
Yes… I believe so. As I said above, her angry protector part saw others as a threat, while the real threat, the real cause of her angst was inside of her…
“There’s no deficiency in me”- can you elaborate on that?
She didn’t want to admit that there’s anything wrong with her. She claimed she was a good, caring mother, who sacrificed herself for her children. And that it is you who are not good enough, who are bad, who are making her life miserable.
My goodness, Tee: you said it, “locked away”, just what I said above.
The protector/ attacker was at the gate, allowing no vulnerability/ no access to her inner child.
Yes, her angry protector part was like a rabid dog at the gate (the gate keeper), barking and threatening (and biting) anyone who would want to get closer.
How did it feel to her…to what was left of her, when her inner child was locked away??? Should I even entertain this thought..?
Well, I guess if felt horrible, because she never experienced true intimacy. But it was still not so horrible that she would want to question her narrative: that she is the victim and others want to destroy her. I guess it was still easier for her to blame others rather than face herself…
I hope this answers your questions, Anita ❤️
And hope you have a nice Saturday! 😊
November 8, 2025 at 10:34 am #451663
anitaParticipantDear Tee:
You were in a dream of mine last night, I felt your physical presence but with no image of how you may look. It was a short dream, something very positive and inspiring, I woke up and practiced telling you about it. Must have drifted back to sleep and now, I don’t remember 🫥
First, yes, I do want you to offer me advice in regard to my knees, thank you!
“I guess the first would be to know what’s causing you knee pain? Because it can be a number of issues, and cartilage thinning and deterioration (i.e. osteoarthritis) is just one of them. Have you been diagnosed with anything?”- no, I avoid doctors and medical appointments. I have no doubt that at least one issue is osteoarthritis.
“Regarding food supplements, actually I wasn’t very precise – I haven’t mentioned another important one: hyaluronic acid. There are food supplements that combine glucosamine, chondroitin, hyaluronic acid, turmeric and some other ingredients, and I personally know people who said that if they use these food supplements, they don’t have knee pain, but if they stop, the pain returns.”-
I will research these supplements, thank you!
“Maybe it’s a placebo effect, but I think it’s also possible that for mild cartilage deficiencies, it does the work.”- this reminds me of my last doctor appointment, I was desperate (severe insomnia). The doctor prescribed me with an anti-depressant, not for depression, but for its off label use as a sleeping aid. He then said: but it doesn’t work for most people whose trouble is not falling asleep, but staying asleep (which was my problem, and I told him so in the beginning of the appointment).
I then told him: You just killed the placebo effect and suggested it might not have been wise of him to do so. I wonder if he considered my input..?
“I follow many of those 😊, including eating fish (not sardines, but other types of sea fish 🙂 )… I don’t like to go to swimming pools. But it’s probably something I should consider doing more of, in spite of not being a fan.”-
Hmm. I wouldn’t go to a swimming pool because I wouldn’t want to be seen in a swimming suit, at least not of the regular kind. Nor would I want to see others in theirs..
I am glad you’re eating fish. My favorite is raw, or very lightly seared salmon, yummy!
“What I notice is that Copilot assumed that herniation always involves leaking of the disc inner material (nucleus pulposus, or “gel”) out from the disc into the spinal canal. According to some literature, herniation is a broader term and can also mean that the disc loses its round shape and deforms (so-called protrusion), but the outer ring/band (annulus fibrosus) doesn’t get punctured. And so the gel stays within the disc, however the entire disc is deformed and can still press on the nerves.”-
I just asked him (I think of it as him), and he says: “Yes, Tee’s observation is largely accurate: disc herniation is a broader term that can include conditions like disc protrusion, where the nucleus pulposus does not leak out but the disc still deforms and may press on nerves…
Disc Protrusion- The disc bulges outward but the outer layer (annulus fibrosus) remains intact. The nucleus pulposus stays contained within the disc. This bulging can still compress nearby nerves, causing pain or neurological symptoms. Often considered a milder form of disc herniation.
Disc Herniation- A more general term that includes: Protrusion: bulging without rupture. Extrusion: the nucleus pulposus breaks through the annulus fibrosus. Sequestration: disc material detaches and migrates into the spinal canal.
Herniation can range from contained bulges to leaking disc material, depending on severity.
Why the Confusion Happens- Some clinicians and sources use ‘herniation’ to refer only to cases where the disc material leaks out. Others use it as an umbrella term that includes protrusions, extrusions, and sequestrations. This inconsistency in usage can lead to misunderstandings, especially in non-specialist contexts.
Summary- Tee is correct: herniation doesn’t always mean leakage of the nucleus pulposus. A disc protrusion is a type of herniation, where the disc deforms but remains intact. Both conditions can cause nerve compression and symptoms, but their severity and treatment may differ.”
Now I know.
Back to Tee: “That’s the type of herniation I’ve got: not extrusion or sequestration, where the gel leaks into the spinal canal, but protrusion, where the gel is contained within the disc. I guess it’s a matter of nomenclature. Actually, the radiologist who looked at my scans calls my condition herniation, while the orthopedic doctor whom I’ve visited recently said it was protrusion. So even the doctors can’t agree..”- in line with Copilot’s input.
“Anyway, Copilot did very well and gave good advice 🙂 As for giving me encouragement, thanks, but to be honest, I’m not too keen on getting emotional/psychological support from AI, since it’s a machine and doesn’t have real empathy…”- Well, he picked on my empathy for you and elaborated on it.
“However, I am very grateful to you, Anita, for your support and empathy, and for being there for me in this challenging episode. You’re a person of flesh and blood, and you showed real empathy, for which I am very grateful. So please know that I appreciate your efforts to help me and relieve my pain and suffering ❤️ Thankfully, I’m feeling a bit better at the moment, the pain has subsided a little, so I’m hoping this episode won’t last for too long 🤞”-
Thank you for your kind words, Copilot couldn’t or wouldn’t have said it better! I hope that by the time you are reading this message, you are still feeling better ❤️ 🤞 ❤️
(I will reply to your recent message next)
Anita
November 8, 2025 at 11:57 am #451664
anitaParticipantDear Tee:
I just almost completed my more than an hour long reply to your most recent post and pressed the wrong key and lost it all. Again (a bit of a shortened version):
“Here’s a reply to your second post, as promised..”- Tee keeps her promises, thank you 😊 🙏
“I’m really happy to hear this, Anita. It probably means some shift has happened within you, and it’s wonderful news!”- there is a shift in the making.
“I’m sorry your good uncle is doing poorly… May I ask if you’ve kept in touch with him after you left? But please only answer if you feel comfortable, I don’t want to pry about your family relationships if it feels painful to you..”- thank you for your sensitivity. I thought about contacting him long ago, but was afraid that it will reach her and cause her pain that I reached him, as in a betrayal of her (while being in no contact with her).
Remember I shared that she looked at me threateningly when he was curious about me, and kind to me..?
I was afraid of her (what she will do to me if I open up to anyone) and for her (that she would be so very hurt if I did).
Now, it’s been so many years, uncle Morris probably didn’t think of me for a very, very long time. i wouldn’t want to trouble him- potentially- in his last days.
“Yes, I believe she had a lot of unresolved issues within her – having been abused and/or neglected as a child. She probably felt a lot of self-loathing (you said she’d cut out her head from all of her photos), worthlessness, feeling unlovable, but probably also a lot of anger due to her needs not having been met. Due to people abusing her and/or abandoning her. But she wasn’t aware of any of that.
“So there was a lot of anger in her at other people, at life. And this anger and rage is what you’ve experienced – she was punishing you for not having been loved and cared for as a child, basically. For having been abused and abandoned.
“It’s like when people vent out their rage not at the person who caused that rage (e.g. their boss) but at their loved ones, when they get home. Your mother was venting her anger and rage at you – because that was safe for her to do. She needed to vent it, and you were the perfect recipient, as children usually are: helpless, impressionable, trying to please the parent, easily taking on guilt, etc.”-
“loved ones”- not one they love, not one she loved (me), but the one who loved her.
“You couldn’t resist her, you couldn’t challenge her, and so she had free reign to dump her anger and rage at you.
“I think it gave her two benefits: she felt relief (even for just a short while) from this internal pressure of anger (her being like a pressure cooker, releasing steam all the time). And she also felt good about herself, because she didn’t need to look at herself, but she could blame someone else for her misery.
“Yes, that’s how covert narcissists operate: they complain and pity themselves, and then people try to help them, but they can never be pleased. They keep complaining. They also create a feeling of guilt in people: they blame people for being happy, claiming that they themselves can never be happy because of this or that obstacle, and because life has been so unfair to them.
“In short, they always find an excuse to complain, and they use this to guilt-trip people, to wear people down, to keep the attention on themselves and their “woes” and keep people (usually their loved ones) focused on them and having their life revolve around them. So it’s a trap.
“But also, if you’re a child to such a parent, it causes you to feel never good enough, to feel worthless, because whatever you try to help your parent, nothing works. Nothing can make your mother happy. So the child feels like a failure.”- very much so.
“Right.. parts of her personality never matured, and so this was visible in the tone of her voice, her hand-writing, her drawing… but also I guess in her inability to regulate her emotions. She was like a toddler who was screaming all the time, or most of the time, expressing anger at not having things go her way..”- one hundred percent accurate.
“Yes, I guess her angry protector part – which was spewing anger at you (and others, but less openly) all the time – was trying to protect her inner child from getting hurt again. She saw almost everything as a threat. Everything coming from the outside of her.
“Whereas the real threat was inside: those voices that she internalized (e.g. that she is worth loathing), or the false belief that everybody is out to get her – that everybody is trying to hurt her. She was “defending” herself against the imagined threat from the outside, while refusing to deal with the issues on the inside, i.e. with her own psyche.
I wrote: “Her innermost part: a vulnerable, innocent, beautiful little girl; the outer layer.. a demon?”
You answered: “Yes.. I believe so. As I said above, her angry protector part saw others as a threat, while the real threat, the real cause of her angst was inside of her…
“She didn’t want to admit that there’s anything wrong with her. She claimed she was a good, caring mother, who sacrificed herself for her children. And that it is you who are not good enough, who are bad, who are making her life miserable.
“The protector/ attacker was at the gate, allowing no vulnerability/ no access to her inner child.
“Yes, her angry protector part was like a rabid dog at the gate (the gate keeper), barking and threatening (and biting) anyone who would want to get closer.
“Well, I guess if felt horrible, because she never experienced true intimacy. But it was still not so horrible that she would want to question her narrative: that she is the victim and others want to destroy her. I guess it was still easier for her to blame others rather than face herself… I hope this answers your questions, Anita ❤️”-
Yes, you answered my questions very, very well, thank you so much!
I will be reading and processing your answers further later on.
“And hope you have a nice Saturday!”- thank you! I hope you are having a good Sat night 🤞 ❤️
Anita
November 8, 2025 at 12:13 pm #451665
anitaParticipantOh, I forgot to add: no more messages from Copilot to you, Tee, now that I know that you wouldn’t like it
Hi Alessa 😊:
Again, thank you for your message. My sister didn’t necessarily call me to let me know tat my mother is dying. She tested the water, trying to see if I will be willing to hear what she had in mind to tell me about the mother, but I told her that I couldn’t, wouldn’t listen, so she didn’t tell me.
Yes, it is uncle Morris ❤️
“I hear that there are some complicated feelings for people whose abusers die. It sounds to me like you actually did your best to take care of your mother. But it’s not something that a child can do I’m afraid. Not your fault at all that you were a child who tried your best. ❤️
“Sometimes people feel relief when their abusers die. I hope it is not in bad taste to say that I hope in part it might bring you at least some sense of relief for the horror to finally be permanently over one day. I only say that because you truly deserve peace. ❤️
Please be gentle with yourself in these difficult times and take extra special care of yourself and little girl Anita. You deserve the extra love and support. Despite the difficulties in your relationship with her, death is not an easy thing and can land in strange ways. ❤️”-
I copied all the above because your words are so kind and I treasure them. Thank you 🙏 ❤️
Anita
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