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February 2, 2018 at 4:44 am #190271AnonymousGuest
Dear joanna:
I like your commitment to what you referred to as self improvement, seeing more, understanding more, learning more. I like your choice to face your fears, and our hurts, to continue what works.
Regarding your question, did I shift my emotions to other people, to find hope- of course I did. I am human too, I operate the same way as others. Automatically, we do that. I used to look up at other people, as if they had the power to … pick me up from the misery I was in and deliver me to the land of happiness-ever-after. Other people were my hope for salvation. And a disappointment after disappointment… and yet, another disappointment. Lots of wasted time and energy. Misplaced hope is not a good thing.
anita
February 2, 2018 at 7:22 am #190299MarkParticipantjoanna,
I find that inspiring to read that meditation and facing your fears has helped you.
I am glad that you find solace here. I hope you find support in the “real world” as well.
I have gone to places where they have group meditations so perhaps that is a place for you?
Mark
February 2, 2018 at 9:48 am #190323AnonymousInactiveDear Mark and Anita
Thanks to you both for noticing this, that means a lot although I think my meditation skills and other “improving myself” skills are far from perfect, not even average but this gives me motivation and strengths so thank you.
So Anita, when did you realize all that? How much time did you waste on hoping and fighting.
February 2, 2018 at 11:22 am #190331AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
I would say I wasted about fifty years. I am still realizing this, the process of learning and understanding never ends, except when you give up on it.
I wonder how long you will waste.. I sure hope not as long as I have.
anita
February 2, 2018 at 12:07 pm #190345AnonymousInactiveDear Anita
I guess 10 years for sure. Years of attachment to people who did wrong to me and wasn’t even nice to me but for some reason I believed they were the ones to save me. Mostly it didn’t last long, but I was always seeking for someone new. I remember crying on the floor when ‘a friend’ abandoned me, a friend who used me, didn’t respect me and at the end I started even hating her. Now I see this. I see the past, not the present unfortunately. Still in this toxic relation. He started texting me yesterday, talked even about an affair, didn’t hesitate. He even said he didn’t need those things and didn’t care, he wanted to come here and hoped something would happen. I saw how he looked at me. I wasn’t ready for this. He texted me at night that he knows it’s wrong but he wouldn’t hold back if I’d want to. I started picturing maybe he isn’t happy, maybe he doesn’t love her, maybe there’s still a chance. I was so confused I didn’t expect this. It would be easier for me if he just took those things, ignored me and left because I’m getting used to the fact he’s gone and he doesn’t love me, it was kind of steady. And now he did all this.. And today he’s texting me he’s having a nice evening, and he’s busy, with her probably and I just… I’m so confused you know. I didn’t even have the time to digest what he said yesterday and now seems like it was a fleeting moment when he said that, maybe he was bored and texted me all this I don’t know. He gives me a rollercoaster, just plays with my emotions in the worst possible way. It’s too much, you know. I wouldn’t start anything but I couldn’t ignore what he texted me. What’s the use of all this trying to fix myself if I can’t even ignore what I know is bullshit, because deep down I realized that, I’m just looking for hope so much and missing him so much that I ignore the voice of reason.
February 2, 2018 at 12:27 pm #190351AnonymousInactiveI feel so terrible, and hopeless and sad. I will never release myself from this, never. I can’t imagine my life without him now. There was a moment I thought he would come back. I can’t live with this, I don’t know what to do, it’s too much for a couple of days.
February 2, 2018 at 12:49 pm #190361MarkParticipantI am sorry that you are feeling this way joanna. I suggest if you truly want to start healing and move on is to tell him not to contact you anymore, that you will be blocking him and deleting his contact information off your devices.
His communications are triggering you. You don’t need triggers or reminders. You need to move forward rather than have him hold you back.
Mark
February 3, 2018 at 6:43 am #190441AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
It is possible for you to no longer place your hope where there is no reasonable hope. Just not now, later. One day… you will place your hope where it belongs and you will feel at peace.
Your choice, although you were not aware of it when you posted the above, is not between hoping for this man or having no hope. There is a third choice: to find out where your hope belongs, what is reasonable to hope for.
If you perceived that third option, you would be.. reasonably hopeful.
To perceive that third option, you have to give up an old hope, one you had as a child, the hope for the love of an unloving parent.
anita
February 3, 2018 at 4:24 pm #190529AnonymousInactiveDear Anita
Thank you for this patience with me. I know I’m going in circles. I was exhausted yesterday, since Wednesday I slept maybe 4 h at night and couldn’t eat. First time in months I woke up to a panic attack. Today’s better.
Where’s the reasonable hope? You always talk about not hoping, not thinking about a person as the one to save me. I always seek someone to take care of me, because I feel I’m unable to take care of myself. I need someone to hug me and tell me it’s gonna be okay. I hate that I need it. How to change it? Where to find hope in myself?
February 3, 2018 at 5:26 pm #190533PeterParticipantHope is a verb.
Skillful hope, is hope with eyes open prepared to take action when opportunity shows it self as we work towards our goals. Unskillful hope, is hope with eyes shut, passive, waiting to be saved. Hoping to win the lotto but never buying the ticket.
Where to find hope in yourself? This may sound like a paradox however if you have been practicing hope unskillfully you may want to practice not hoping. Be mindful and notice when you turn to hope, if its passive, acknowledge it as such and let it go. Make no judgments, just notice, and be kind to yourself.
Eventually if you practice you will learn how to let go of other unhelpful thoughts. That is something to hope for, eyes open, working towards your goals and when the opportunity for healing shows itself, and it will, taking it.
February 4, 2018 at 5:40 am #190583AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
You are welcome. Of course I have patience with you, why wouldn’t I. After all I went “in circles” for so many years, and I am okay with it now, that is, I am not angry at myself for it anymore. Neither should you be angry at yourself. I would like it if you had patience with yourself.
You asked: “Where’s the reasonable hope?”-
It is right here, in that need, “I need someone to hug me and tell me it’s gonna be okay.
Your reasonable hope starts with being okay with this need, this natural, human need. Being okay with it instead of hating it (“I hate that I need it”), and instead of trying to change it (“How do I change it?).
This need is not the problem. This need is not the enemy. It is your friend simply because everyone has this need, born that way. Other social animals have this need too. This is how natural this need is.
And then, it is about whose hug is going to make you feel at peace, and how much peace to expect. If a person gives you a hug and later punches you in the face, literally or figuratively, hoping for a hug will bring you another punch in the face, you don’t want that. When a person has only hugs for you, is honest, sincere, decent, that hug will bring you comfort, but it will take a long time in such a relationship for that comfort to sink in.
anita
February 4, 2018 at 4:26 pm #190703AnonymousInactiveDear Peter,
Thank you for that, I found that very useful and new. I understand when hope is not good, and that sometimes it keep us from seeing the reality. But what does the “believing” mean? Just acting? When can I say I believe instead of I hope? I kind of not understand this second part.
Dear Anita
What does it mean “but it will take a long time in such a relationship for that comfort to sink in.” Is that good or bad? Okay, I will TRY to not hate myself for the feelings I have. More try to understand them and accept them. I need someone to just make me feel safe and take care of me as it was a magical feeling making my whole life better, without even changing anything in my life. I just need this little small feeling and I’ll be fine. Funny when I think of it.
I try to not fight this feelings I have for this man. I know he’s like my father whom I missed through all my life. I don’t hate my father or judge him, I know he’s been raised in a tough way, he was way too young when they got married. I’m not just saying this, it took me years but now I understand him and I know he was a good person and loved me but life was tough for him. When my parents divorced and I visited him I had this feeling that all the issues I had back at home, they didn’t matter since I was at my dad’s. He didn’t do anything, everything just disappeared and it was okay. Even if it wasn’t but he made me feel safe because I was there.
Funny how we perceive problems, it doesn’t matter how big they are if we have someone to rely on. Seemed like the problems aren’t really the problem, but the feeling of being safe and taken care of. When I was back at my mom’s and her partner I would cry because no one at school liked me. At my dad’s house those didn’t exist, I lived in a fairytale for a week or two. But that’s a very old memory.
I know this man, my ex-not-boyfriend reminds me of him in many many ways. Even when we talked on Thursday and I told him about my problems with moving out he kind of calmed me down, explained some things. after talking to him I often have a feeling it’s gonna be okay, even if it’s not, just calms me and I feel better. He often says the right things, of course in the matter of things other than our relationship. I know it’s mostly my idea of him, that I want him to have those features, maybe he has some but I mostly want him to be like that because I miss this feeling. So when I noticed there was something I could use to make him stay, I did this, and in return for making me feel safe (or fooling myself ) I allowed him to hurt me as well.
I know this all looks like I’m still going in circles. One step forward, fighting my panic attacks, now two steps back, thinking about an affair with him. I promised I’ll be honest here so I am. I’m not thinking in a way of “planning” it or wanting, regardless of what impression you may have I understand more now, all the things we talk here and all you tell me I use it to open my eyes. He told me he does not love her, maybe in some way, but in general he never thought he loved anyone in his whole life. That made me think it’s not me who is unlovable, I’ve just chosen a man who can’t even love his own girlfriend, and I set a goal for myself to make him love me, as a challenge for myself. I once read something called “it’s easier to let go of a human than a hero” with which I agree now. We’re both damaged people, probably. I’m STARTING to see him differently. Like it’s not all my fault, because there’s something not right with him if he would cheat on her and does not love her. I must say I would never expect this in a million years and lost some respect for him, although of course it made me feel better in a way, as those weren’t hurtful words from him for a change. Anyway, I’m a bit afraid of what will happen, as I know I should have cancelled that meeting then and I couldn’t. I see he’s very straight forward when talking to me. Also I do not understand this whole situation, it’s not completely logical, why is he talking like that now, is it about sex only, which also hard to believe since he lives with a girlfriend, why would he need me for a sex, whats the point of that. Is he really that damaged and fucked up. I always thought it’s only me who was. Anyway I have this hope and I’m thinking a lot unfortunately, but I also have fear since I see more and care a bit more about my well being. Not having panic attacks is my priority now, which earlier I did not ever care about.
February 5, 2018 at 5:31 am #190761AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
There is a whole lot in your last post, a whole lot for me to respond to, to learn more from and to respond to, hoping for your thoughts and feelings about what I will be writing. So, I expect this to be a loaded post.
That Safe Feeling, these are your references to that Safe Feeling: “I need someone to just make me feel safe.. a magical feeling making my whole life better, without even changing anything in my life… When my parents divorced and I visited (your father) I had this feeling that all the issues I had back at home, they didn’t matter since I was at my dad’s. He didn’t do anything, everything just disappeared and it was okay. Even if it wasn’t but he made me feel safe because I was there.
Funny how we perceive problems, it doesn’t matter how big they are if we have someone to rely on. Seemed like the problems aren’t really the problem, but the feeling of being safe and taken care of… At my dad’s house those (problems) didn’t exist, I lived in a fairytale for a week or two…he (this current man in your mind/life) kind of calmed me down, explained some things, after talking to him I often have a feeling it’s gonna be okay, even if it’s not, just calms me and I feel better.”
My input: this Safe Feeling is what you need desperately. If that feeling is available for you somehow, you will do anything to experience it. Anything. But this is not true only in your mind and life. Everyone needs that safe feeling. And everyone significantly lacking this feeling, will indeed do anything and everything it takes to get it.
Experiencing anxiety, that is, significant, ongoing fear, a significant lack of that safe feeling is unacceptable to the brain/ body. It, the brain, will do anything, go through any mental acrobatic to make this feeling happen. And it will motivate a person to do anything at all, however illogical, to bring about this feeling.
Everything is put on hold, everything takes a secondary position to this need of this safe feeling.
This safe feeling is magical and you referred to it as such, as a “magical feeling” and a “fairytale”. It feels magical because there is no memory more pleasurable than feeling it as a child. A child thinks and feels in magical ways, the sun looks brighter than it does later in life, the grass looks greener, the future looks endlessly promising… when the child has this safe feeling.
And so, this is how you remember that safe feeling, in that magical way. In reality, safety is not like that, not magical. But we remember it that way and expect to feel it again and forever more, that very way.
In an ideal situation, a child grows up feeling safe enough and her thinking adjusts, changes, over the years to fit reality more, understanding that such a magical, complete, uncompromised, happily-ever-after safety does not exist. But when a child does not grow up feeling adequately safe (because she wasn’t safe, in the reality of her childhood), then she doesn’t adjust her thinking to reality, and that safe feeling remains a dream, something that cannot be actualized for long. It is a feeling the unsafe child continues to dream about, to pursue moments of, hoping it can be felt forever once found.
I have more thoughts but this post is enough for now. Looking forward to your response, hopefully after you stay with this for a while.
anita
February 8, 2018 at 12:20 pm #191499AnonymousInactiveDear Anita,
I haven’t responded in a few days but I’ve been reading this post repeatedly. Thank you very much for this. When I try to think about this in a logical way, not automatic way as I’m learned to, it makes very big sense. It’s the feeling I probably never had, or had for a very short period of time and I connect this with my father because after divorce my life became worse – which is very twisted because they divorced because of my father’s drinking problem, so that I would have a “normal and calm life”, turned out my mother’s and her partner’s behavior towards me, their being aggressive (not physically), her silent treatments and criticizing me, his constant bullying, one day after another, started my self harming problems. The year we moved out, exactly. Exactly the moment my father disappeared I started picking on my face, as I was 12 years old to this moment when I finally realized I’m doing this in may last year. Sometimes it stopped for year, two or three and it returned when I met this man. Now I try to do this consciously, when I do. It’s easier to stop then. I cant say it’s fully under my control but I can say it’s not automatic like before and I’m not hurting myself in a serious way like I did sometimes, it’s like 10% of what I used to do in the past. Also thanks to you here.
February 8, 2018 at 12:21 pm #191501AnonymousInactiveDear Anita,
I haven’t responded in a few days but I’ve been reading this post repeatedly. Thank you very much for this. When I try to think about this in a logical way, not automatic way as I’m learned to, it makes very big sense. It’s the feeling I probably never had, or had for a very short period of time and I connect this with my father because after divorce my life became worse – which is very twisted because they divorced because of my father’s drinking problem, so that I would have a “normal and calm life”, turned out my mother’s and her partner’s behavior towards me, their being aggressive (not physically), her silent treatments and criticizing me, his constant bullying, one day after another, started my self harming problems. The year we moved out, exactly. Exactly the moment my father disappeared I started picking on my face, as I was 12 years old to this moment when I finally realized I’m doing this in may last year. Sometimes it stopped for year, two or three and it returned when I met this man. Now I try to do this consciously, when I do. It’s easier to stop then. I cant say it’s fully under my control but I can say it’s not automatic like before and I’m not hurting myself in a serious way like I did sometimes, it’s like 10% of what I used to do in the past. Also thanks to you here.
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