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- This topic has 479 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 1 month, 1 week ago by Anonymous.
January 28, 2018 at 1:19 pm #189497AnonymousInactive
I won’t lie, I can’t cancel this. Since he’ll come by for 2 minutes I believe we will not talk or anything, just act nice and normal, have a small talk about nothing. I guess. I’m sure he will not want to stay longer so. Okay. Yes I’m pretty sure that will happen so nothing to be nervous about, you’re right. I’ll try to calm myself. Thank you.
What do you mean you “understand “hope, however illogical” very well.” ?January 29, 2018 at 3:49 am #189547AnonymousInactive
Thanks for talking to me Anita, I know I should cancel this and send him those things. Perhaps this hope is bad for me and I need to lose all hope, maybe then I will be ready to let go. So maybe I need this meeting to see for myself that we’re strange people to each other now. Truth is I don’t plan in my head what I will say or what will happen, except for the overthinking first day after he hold me this. Which is good. I feel sad and hopeless, maybe it’s a good thing.January 29, 2018 at 7:37 am #189579AnonymousGuest
You are welcome. Glad to be talking with you and to keep talking.
By understanding hoping, however illogical, I mean regarding my mother, the most influential relationship in my life, I kept hoping that she will love me, that she will approve of me. That hope took decades to die. That hope caused me to waste decades of life.
anitaJanuary 29, 2018 at 10:34 am #189621AnonymousInactive
Well, we have many things in common I see. Childhood is the root of most issues, right?
Was this a relief? A dying hope?January 29, 2018 at 10:48 am #189625AnonymousGuest
Childhood is when those many thousands of neuropathways in the brain are formed, and so, yes, the roots of most issues are there. I think that the term Formative Years for childhood years is correct because those pathways are formed then. That illogical hope we are talking about is a web of such pathways.
Was it a relief, the dying of that hope? No. The relief was every time I imagined that she will love me, seeing her in my imagination smiling at me approvingly. That was a heavenly felt relief. This is what kept me going, hoping.
The death of that hope freed me and frees me from being blind to life. As long as the hope was alive, my eyes were closed. In a way, all I could see was that approving smile I longed for so desperately. I didn’t see the person I imagined smiling to me, who that person is. And I didn’t see myself, who I am and was from the beginning.
Now I see.
anitaJanuary 29, 2018 at 12:10 pm #189649AnonymousInactive
This is very accurate “This is what kept me going, hoping.” I admire you for this knowledge, you’re probably right, the death of hope is freeing. What did it take to break free from this?January 29, 2018 at 12:52 pm #189661MarkParticipant
I find another approach to this acceptance of the death of hope is to step in the other person’s shoes.
I have this 3 step approach to compassion and empathy: 1) Intellectually understand what is causing the other person’s behavior, e.g. this is how my mother grew up and this was the only way she knew how to parent. 2) From that understanding, accept him/her for who they are for they were doing the best that they could do at that time. 3) Feeling into the compassion for the other.
The first step is more “head” exercise. The second step is a half head exercise and half heart one. While the last one really incorporates the heart into it. I must say it is challenging for me to get to Step #3.
Here is a Tiny Buddha posting on letting go of toxic relationships:
Letting Go of Unhealthy Relationships and Rediscovering Yourself
January 30, 2018 at 3:37 am #189729AnonymousGuest
- This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by Mark.
To break free from the hope that one day my mother will love me, that one day she will be pleased with who I am, pleased that I am in her life… it took me removing myself from her life, that is, ending all contact with her. It was very difficult for me to do but I did it. I had my last phone conversation with her early in 2013, sent a message to her through my sister in Jan 2014, and that is all, nothing else since or ever will be.
It took that and my first quality psychotherapy 2011-2013. And then, my continuing healing since.
For a child it is impossible to accept that your parent, your caretaker, doesn’t like you, is not happy with you in her life, displeased. Biologically speaking, for a young animal dependent on a parent’s physical care, such dislike and displeasure by the mother means the mother will abandon the young one leading to the young one dying, without food and protection.
So a child does not accept this displeasure, disapproval, and will do anything to change it. When we grow up, we don’t grow out of that motivation, even though we are no longer physically dependent on the parent, for food and protection.
And then, this motivation expands to others, people of no consequence to us as far as our mere survival. We keep hoping as if our survival depended on that person’s love for us, a love that if ended feels like death.
anitaJanuary 30, 2018 at 12:51 pm #189837AnonymousInactive
This is a very good and wise approach, thank you. It will take a lot of time and work but I hope to get there.
What you wrote is very freeing. Thank you for that. That is in many ways true. We kind of let go, or we think we let go of our parents, but in reality we shift those emotions to other people, those same emotions, so the root is still a relationship with our parents. Gosh, that’s so inconvenient and hurtful to even think about it. That’s “facing the truth”, very very painful. But we can’t solve any issues without facing them, if it was easy it wouldn’t be that important and freeing.
May I ask, why do you help people? I must say I rarely feel so calm as in after I talk to you here. So thank you.January 31, 2018 at 8:04 am #189905AnonymousGuest
You are welcome. It is inconvenient and distressing to think what is true, but the more our thinking is congruent with the truth, with reality, that is, the better our mental health. At first realizing this or that is distressing and we close our eyes to it, but long term we suffer when we don’t see reality for what it is.
Why do I help people you asked. Well, I think that I help very little. Most often I don’t help at all. For the same reason in my first three lines above, what you have mentioned as well in your recent post, if I understood you correctly: suggesting what is true to reality is inconvenient and distressing. There is no way for me to reach out to anyone’s brain and calm down that anxiety, that distress… and so, I am of no help or of very little help, overall.
Which brings me to your question, why do I try to help people- because I am trying to help myself. Communicating with people make it possible for me to see more and more of reality, of what life really is, of what is really happening. The more I see of reality, the better my mental health.
Not only can I not reach into another’s brain and calm that anxiety, I cannot reach my own and do that. It takes a whole lot of time, and practice, incredible amount of patience and learning to do that, to calm that anxiety long term.
I don’t think I have enough life in front of me to eliminate my anxiety, or to minimize it to the absolute minimum possible for a human being, but healing has been and is taking place as I type these words. Little by little … by little.
Thank you for your appreciation. Post anytime. I like replying to you.
anitaJanuary 31, 2018 at 3:34 pm #189959AnonymousInactive
Well, this is the only place where I am honest and true and I don’t fear being judged, like I’m judged everyday, not by other people but by myself. I often beat myself up and judge myself, here you do not do this, you’re kind in a way I am never kind to myself.
Where do you find you strength? I mean, what keeps you going?
I hate myself for what I am. I can’t look in the mirror sometimes, for those feelings and thoughts that don’t let me live. I told myself I’ll be fine and now I’m thinking maybe he’ll stay, because he said he doesn’t want me to send it, wanted to meet so maybe he’ll stay.. I know for certain he won’t, and I hate myself for adding this pain to all this, thinking, hoping and then suffering when he won’t do anything I hope for, like hundred times before. I can’t stop these thoughts, I wanted so much to not hope for this.February 1, 2018 at 5:23 am #190045AnonymousGuest
This is Thursday, and by the time you read this, the meeting with him may be over? Do let me know what happened or is happening.
You shared on the previous page of your thread the following about your mother: “She was angry… and took it out on me, yelled at me”- this is what happened to me too. My mother yelled at me too, judged me too, took out her anger at me, used me like a tool. Your mother did these things to you as well, you shared that.
What happens to a little girl being yelled at by her mother, is the following: the young girl is not a separate, individual mental entity. She and her mother are one mental entity in the girl’s brain. The yelling of the mother become a yelling voice in the girl’s brain, a voice that keeps yelling without the actual mother being there.
If your mother was gentle with you, you would have had a gentle voice in your brain.
Just as you were anxious when your mother yelled at you, you are anxious when her voice keeps yelling at you. I wrote her voice- the voice originated with her voice, born in your brain as a direct result of her yelling at you. And now, this voice is independent of her. It is this voice that keeps scaring you. To heal from your anxiety, you have to mute that voice, through a process of healing, over time.
Regarding this man, you wrote that you “wanted so much to not hope for this”- I understand. But we hope anyway. We hope because we need that strength you mentioned in your recent post, to keep you going.
What is my strength, what keeps me going? At this point, curiosity, the desire to learn. I want to see more of what is real. The more I see, the better I feel, little by little by little. The progress is so gradual and so non-linear (some ups and downs, zig zag like), that it is hard to notice and easy to get lost in those downward little lines of … feeling not so good.
This man, hope is not with him, that is reality as I see it. Hope is in muting the yelling in your brain. This man is of no real consequence in your life, isn’t that an amazing thought? That the man you are so consumed by, so hopeful about, believing somehow that he is so important in your life, is not at all important.
No matter who a man is in your life, he cannot shut down the yelling.
I hope you keep posting here.
anitaFebruary 1, 2018 at 2:01 pm #190183AnonymousInactive
Have you ever shifted your emotions to other person besides your mother, to find hope? Did this happen to you?
I agree with you when it comes to curiosity and seeing reality as it is. Ever since I started to meditate I saw and realized things, I saw I was in the dark before, mostly with my past relationships with people, toxic friendships etc. It allowed me to understand many things, there are still many left to understand and see, but this was a lot and I’m grateful for that.Self improvement is a great thing. I hope to understand more and learn to let go of what hurts me.
He wanted to stay. He stayed for an hour, we talked. He held my hand when he was leaving, and said I look cute. He texted me he “tried to behave” and kind of wanted to meet later tonight but I said I can’t. He is in a relationship. So that’s what happened.February 1, 2018 at 3:36 pm #190197ElianaParticipant
I have been reading your posts, and I hope you don’t mind if I jump in for a moment. Then I will leave you alone. I suffer from Borderline Personality Disorder and Histrionic Personality Disorder as well as Major Depressive Disorder, Panic Disorder and severe anxiety disorder. I too used to self-harm. I also, for several years had such terrible, debilitating panic attacks, I would wake up every morning on the dot at either 2am or 4am sweating and thinking my heart would pound out of my chest. Or I would be driving too work, and start to hyperventilate, get neauseas and turn around and have to go home. I lost many, many jobs.
This is a disorder that can’t be willed away. No amount of meditation will help, it can’t be “snapped out of”. I had to have five to 10 years of DBT therapy, CBT therapy and Schema therapy. Sometimes this therapy would be done inpatient because of trips to ER for self-harm. It does not go away. I was out on Topamax for emotion regulation, Klonopin 2mg in morning, 2mg at Bedtime for Panic and anxiety disorder, Wellbutrin 300 for motivation just to get out of bed. Remeron 45mg when I was hospitalized for suicidal ideation in 2005, which I still take, it brought me out of the deepest, darkest depression I ever had. I also take Busphar, for racing and intrusive thoughts. I was in intensive Psychotherapy. They will put you on the right medication that will work for you and put you on a treatment plan that will work for you. For people that self harm, DBT therapy and Schema therapy is often used with medication..you will feel better, not “pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, religion, meditation, you tube videos and so on, but real professional help and medication. I have been there and still attend therapy sessions and 12 step support programs. 1 out of 5 people have mental illness. Some never ask for help. It is not who you are, it is part of you. It is curable, but only with a treatment program, with a qualified trained therapist. You will get better. It is not a character weakness to be on medication and therapy. You will feel so much better. Have a great weekend. xFebruary 2, 2018 at 2:19 am #190257AnonymousInactive
Feel free to post anytime. My opinion about medication I believe I posted earlier, also I have some experience with that and it created bigger problems for me, without solving those that existed already, only temporary perhaps. My life was still a mess, the same as before medications. Of course I believe that it helped you in a great way. Everyone is different and various things work depends on many factors. I chose to face my fears, however big and scary they are. Meditation and facing my fears has changed me in way nothing ever before has. So I’m choosing to continue what works. I’m really grateful you shared your story.