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- This topic has 15 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 9 months ago by Poppyxo.
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March 7, 2018 at 2:35 am #196185PoppyxoParticipant
Hey 🙂
A few months have passed since I’ve been here.
I have a friend who I have been friends with for around 10 years, I’m 27 she’s 42. We used to work together & have kept in touch since. We don’t see each other that often anyway but lately we haven’t seen each other for a while & it’s not sitting well with me.She has a 2 year old which she was trying for 9 years to have, & so she understandably she has taken up most of her time, which is fine. But I feel like it’s always me approaching her for plans & going to see her, as opposed to her seeing me. She doesn’t drive, which again is understandable, but she does see her Mum for example by getting the bus – we don’t live walking distance, so I always end up going to her. I’m not a fan of Christmas cards & so don’t give them out, I let people know & I always let her know. She made a fuss once (& being sarcastically funny) that she would like a card & although I don’t like them, I made an effort to get her not one, but a few, as a funny gesture back. Only for her to tell me she had forgot to get me one (she works in a card shop) so I was a little miffed because I felt like I’d gone out my way to get her some after her jibbing me, to not recieve one back – I understand I’m not fussed about them, but I even went round on Christmas Day to hand deliver it?
I also got her a card, some flowers & a bottle of wine for her birthday, which I again hand delivered. When it came to my birthday she text me the day before (after I’d posted on social media, so I think it reminded her it was my birthday the next day), to ask if I was free to come to her on my birthday to get my card? I still haven’t recieved my card (my birthday was 30th Jan) & again, she works in a card shop, that sell cards & stamps.I text her on the 14th feb, & told her to keep the 9th march free for us all (her partner & mine) to go out for some drinks. I text her today to see if all still ok & to arrange where to go, to be told shes going out with friends from work & that she’s sorry. I text her & asked if she was planning on cancelling plans with her work friends as I had asked first (I made a bit of a joke of it so it wasn’t so serious) she said she was so sorry & asked if I’m not too angry, so I replied & said I was looking forward too going out so I’m a bit sad. I feel that if I don’t bother she probably would never text me, which to me says I probably shouldn’t bother then, but I like to think that she is a good friend.
I know I should talk to her about this but I feel awkward about it…. advice on how people see the situation?March 7, 2018 at 4:30 am #196197AnonymousGuestDear Poppyxo:
You asked how people see this situation. I just re-read a bit from your previous threads as well as reading your new thread. This is how I see this situation and I will get right to the point:
You are angry at your friend and have been angry at her for quite some time. The expressions of your anger are: “it’s not sitting well with me”, “which is fine. But”, “which again is understandable, but”. You wrote that you understand that there is some validity to her not coming to see you in the facts that she has a two year old and doesn’t drive, but… In that but I read: but I am pissed off she doesn’t take the bus to see me!
When you gave her “not one, but a few (cards), as a funny gesture back”- I think it was anger that motivated you, not humor. In that gesture I hear something like: you complained that I don’t send you cards, well, HERE, have two, have three cards, satisfied???!
Here is another piece of anger: you wrote that she told you that she forgot to get you a card and you added “(she works in a card shop)”- underneath this funny piece in parenthesis is something like this: what a liar she is! She didn’t forget to get me a card, she works in a card shop! What a lying, lousy friend!
Later in your post you wrote: “I text her… (I made a bit of a joke…) she …asked if I’m not too angry, so I replied & said… I’m a bit sad.”
Again, you joke, using humor as a vehicle to your anger.
Notice in the above quote she didn’t ask you if you were angry, she knew that you were angry. She asked if you were too angry.
You acknowledged to her that you were sad, but didn’t acknowledge the anger because you feel comfortable with sadness but not with anger.
In the past you wrote that your mother bottled in her anger until she exploded, do I remember correctly? I think that you decided to not be like her, so instead of raising your voice, saying abusive words to a person and such, you try to hurt them with jokes and humor.
You wrote in your previous thread that teasing or bantering, the words you used(the joking and humor I wrote about here) work well with your father and “with everyone else”-
well, it doesn’t. Aggression is aggression whether it is expressed in volume of voice, name calling, and so on or quietly, through humor.
anita
March 7, 2018 at 7:54 am #196227nextstepsParticipantHello Poppy,
I think you are in a tricky situation in a way as it can be hard to have honest conservations with friends at times about what to expect from them (and them from you) as it may feel awkward or worry about their response so we (myself included) tend to skirt around the issue which can lead to resentment.
My thoughts here, and I know its easier said than done, is to a) not expect your friend to think like you or be anything other than herself e.g it is your (quite reasonable) expectation that your friend should send you a card for your birthday when you made the effort for her birthday that is making you down about this- you expect her to return the favour and get angry when she doesn’t. This is understandable but if you don’t expect too much from your friend you are more likely to stay friends with less resentment. Some friends are great friends, some friends are fair weather friends and some people we call friends are probably more like aquaintances. That’s okay- it just sounds like this friend is more a fair weather or acquaintance type friend.
It reads
March 7, 2018 at 8:02 am #196229nextstepsParticipantsorry didn’t submit correctly..
It reads to me like your friend is perhaps not as self aware as you so doesn’t realise the impact she is having or just gets busy and forgets from time to time-everyone does it.
I have learnt my lesson the hard way in this in that I have a good friend who ive known for 15 years and I made an effort to remember her birthday and christmas and send her a card and present each time and she never got me one back. I did this a few times as I felt it’s what you DO at those times, but actually felt resentment toward her she never returned the favour. The thing I have now learnt is that presents/cards etc aren’t something this friend buys many of eg only for her family as she is a little short of money and also doesn’t tend to be organised enough to remember birthdays etc so now I don’t do this anymore. I have recognised that we can still be friends without the cards /presents and understand that its just not on her radar and so have released my own expectations of her without ruining our friendship. I have other friends where we always make an effort on birthdays etc.
My advice about the cancelling meeting would either to be to let it slide one time and then if it happens again talk to her honestly about it or just say how you felt when she cancelled you and try and arrange another day. People have things come up in life all the time and she perhaps just forgot and double booked which is easily done.
I hope all goes well for you! 🙂
March 7, 2018 at 1:18 pm #196263PoppyxoParticipantHi Anita,
I agree with most of what you’re saying. I just believe that if someone asks you to meet them half way (get them a card because that’s what they like) & you do meet them half way, surely they should meet you half way too? To be so sure of something that you pretty much ask someone to change to be the way you want, but not bother yourself? I think it’s a little poor. If a partner done that it would seen as narcissistic or controlling, so how come it’s ok for a friend to do? I just feel like I go out of my way alot & not get a lot back. As I said it’s always me texting, never the other way round, then it’s “you haven’t come round for months”.
Nextsteps I think you’re right.
I do try to allow that she is her & who & what she does & I am me & I know I cannot control her or anyone for that matter, but I’ve made quite a few changes to ensure her happiness. I just feel like when I make plans I’m not “put on the calendar” & when another event comes along she says yes & always lets me down, regardless of the amount of notice I’ve given … Why can’t she cancel the second event, the one she made after ours? Strange
March 8, 2018 at 3:32 am #196323AnonymousGuestDear Poppyxo:
In my last post to you I focused on your part in the relationship with this woman, the using humor as a vehicle for your anger. I think that learning to assert yourself honestly and directly, without the humor (in this context) will serve you way better. This focus does not mean the other party to the relationship is … the perfect one, not at all, I just didn’t refer to her part.
You suggested that she should meet you half way. Because she has a two year old and doesn’t have a car, I would say it may be reasonable to meet you a third way in, or a quarter: she has to expand some energy into the friendship, text you, for example, after you text her, within a reasonable amount of time and respect commitments already made, except for emergencies.
anita
March 8, 2018 at 3:54 am #196327PoppyxoParticipantHi Anita,
Yes I guess I do hide it with humour, but I guess it makes me feel awkward being serious, and also I don’t find using humour to assert a situation as a negative, as it then doesn’t hold the seriousness or awkwardness that a proper conversation would? As long as I don’t beat around the bush & for example ignore her texts for days because shes pissed me off or anything, then I think I see humour as a more approachable tone to use. No? I wouldn’t even necessarily say I’m angry either, if she doesn’t want to bother or see me then that’s fine – we don’t see each other a lot anyway, never have. It’s just the lack on her part.
March 8, 2018 at 4:02 am #196329AnonymousGuestDear Poppyxo:
It definitely doesn’t work to have a one way friendship/ relationship. There has to be effort on both sides. Not necessarily 50-50, considering life circumstances, and there has to be mutual respect.
Regarding expressing your anger non-assertively, through humor, I do understand that you are comfortable doing so, that it makes you awkward to consider otherwise, but it is not effective. Often enough we don’t feel comfortable with what is effective, with what will operate for our benefit and for the benefit of our relationships.
Whatever we are used to be doing, whatever is our habit (good, bad or neutral), feels comfortable. And it feels awkward to change our habits.
anita
March 8, 2018 at 4:18 am #196335PoppyxoParticipantHi Anita,
I agree. I’m meeting her today, I have suggested meeting her in a coffee shop as opposed to her house, so that I feel a little more comfortable if the subject comes up. If it doesn’t I have decided I will leave it & drop an expectation & going forward wait for her to instigate meeting up. The whole not seeing each other often thing didn’t bother me & never has as we both have our own busy lives, the things that bothered me most was the card situation, particularly for my birthday. But I’ll drop that & leave it in the past & hope things get better moving forward.
March 8, 2018 at 4:39 am #196339AnonymousGuestDear Poppyxo:
If you want to explore it a bit further, I was wondering, when she made a fuss about you not giving her a Christmas card or any card, and in response you gave her a few as “a funny gesture”, wasn’t there some anger in your funny gesture?
anita
March 8, 2018 at 4:46 am #196341PoppyxoParticipantHi Anita,
No I don’t believe there was. Our relationship is very much based on humour, again why I guess talking to her about ‘serious’ stuff is always done in a playful way. We have never had ‘words’ with each other about anything, our relationship has never been strained. I missed a bit of information.. when I went round on Christmas Day & she said she had forgot to get me one, she went out to her back room & wrote me 3 little cards & gave them too me, again as her funny gesture. I guess this is just what we do.
I think sometimes I may need to assert myself, in terms of when we had arranged to do something on a certain date, with a months notice, yet cancels on me instead of the new arrangement she has made with her work colleagues. To me she obviously sees that cancelling me has less of an impact on her, than cancelling the other people. Or that she’d prefer to go to Bingo, than for a few drinks with us?
- This reply was modified 6 years, 9 months ago by Poppyxo.
March 8, 2018 at 4:57 am #196347AnonymousGuestDear Poppyxo:
Maybe, just maybe when she cancelled on you, she thought you wouldn’t get hurt because you are so playful and humorous and not serious. Maybe the other people she chose to meet instead were the serious type. What I am saying is that there are times to be serious. Even if you keep humor as your way of relating, got to be serious sometimes, assertive, clear.
anita
March 8, 2018 at 7:12 am #196351InkyParticipantHi Poppyxo,
Here is something I noticed: There is a vast age difference between you two. Is it possible that since she met you when you were a teenager she took you under her wing, she was a mentor to you, she didn’t take you seriously? Ten years later you are no longer a kid. Is she having trouble seeing you as a fellow adult woman?
The card thing I would forgive. I’m THE WORST at cards. I can’t do it. Yes, even if I worked in a stationary store.
The bailing on your plans I would put her on task for. The next time that happens say, “Oh, good, just tell me where you all are meeting.” She CAN’T say no, as you already cleared YOUR busy schedule sometimes weeks in advance for HER. It will be awkward. Let it be awkward.
Lastly, she is a parent of a very small child. You are not first, you are not second, you aren’t even in the top ten of her priorities. I am not active friends with anyone with small children. Unless you are offering to bring the family pizza and babysit, it is a BURDEN to see you. She needs a babysitter, a free moment, money, and energy. She may not have it. If you get pregnant tomorrow, maybe you can bond with her via playdates. I’ve had three kids. It’s just the reality.
Best,
Inky
March 9, 2018 at 12:34 am #196439PoppyxoParticipantHi Anita,
Yes, you could have a point there. Not so much about disrespecting me, but more about knowing I won’t be annoyed at her plan to cancel me. I met with her yesterday & nothing really was said, & as the meet went on I felt a bit of my tension release .. she did say how sorry she was for not remembering we were meeting, & gave me alternative dates to meet, so that was good. She said sorry for not bringing my birthday card, I said it’s a bit late now & we joked about the fact she can give me it next year.Hi Inky,
There is a big age difference & whilst I’ve never seen that as a problem I think you have a point where you say of her treating me as a kid as opposed to someone more her age. Yes I get the kid part. My sister has 3 & I don’t see them as much as maybe I should, but for me, sitting in a park with screaming kids isn’t my idea of fun. I don’t have kids yet, I don’t plan on it for a few years, & she knows that so I guess she doesn’t invite me round cos she doesn’t want me to be bored, knows it’s not my idea of a ‘fun time’. I have adapted the way I look at it, & think I just felt a bit upset about it – hence why I wrote here I guess. I have asked her to message me the dates she is available she will wait for those & make plans going forward.
I feel like I’m always texting, do you think I should pull back or is that a little immature?March 9, 2018 at 5:27 am #196473InkyParticipantHi Again,
I would give the texting a break. Give her a chance to miss you. What I would do is have a get together at a restaurant or a small party a few times a year. Invite her. Even if she is unable to go, at least she was invited, and you would have other people around. Don’t put your energy into the people who aren’t there, put your energy into the people who are there.
Inky
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