May 4, 2020 at 3:43 pm #353150
<p class=”p1″><span class=”s1″>I am not sure. He does have his business that just started and his time and focus is on that and it’s a lot of physical labor so that might take a toll on his tiredness and energy which makes him feel that way. He also has family to deal with in a regular basis and school. Do you think I should ask him that? </span></p>May 4, 2020 at 4:15 pm #353160
Yes, do ask him. You are entitled to this information. You shouldn’t be waiting not knowing what you are waiting for: it’s not fair to you for him to encourage you to wait for him in the dark, so to speak. He needs to be clear with you about what is going on in his mind. I don’t mean that he should give you a Yes or a No to a resuming a relationship with you at this point, but he should tell you more about what he is thinking and feeling about you and about life in general.
May 4, 2020 at 9:53 pm #353220
- This reply was modified 6 months, 4 weeks ago by anita.
Hi Anita here is an update:
Today I didn’t talk to him until later in the day around 6pm and I asked him if everything was okay. He said he was upset about us and said that for him it’s hard to understand what he needs to do for proper things to happen, that he is stumped, that he misses me but doesn’t know what to do. I asked him to elaborate more and he did by saying he doesn’t know if he wants for us to be happy or for us to end on good terms, that it’s hard for him to let go because he sees a future with me but also doesn’t want the past to repeat. He said he was leaning more towards trying to make things work.
I responded saying I understood what he was saying and that there is no rush and I had mentioned the doubts he had and told him how I saw it as a bad indicator and he said, he personally doesn’t think doubt is a bad indicator, but that it just creates more questions and said he didn’t make any final decision. I asked him if this space and time benefitted him and he didn’t answer the question but responded with “It makes me think.”
After this I told him my opinion on all this saying: I felt hurt when he said he was unsure about us and that I reiterated to him that I wouldn’t want to be with someone who questions whether or not we should be together. He responded saying how it’s not being unsure but it’s making the same mistakes again if we were to be together.
I told him how we really have to work things through 100% if we want this to work because there’s a lot of improvement that needs to be done on both parts. This was around 6:30pm.
At 7pm he messages me saying: how we can solve these problems.
At 7:40pm he double messages saying: he doesn’t like being like this, that he would like to fix things, and that is his decision. He asked me if I trusted his word on his decision.
I responded to his two messages when I had the chance (8pm) and I was surprised by his change of thought and questioned why he changed his mind bc of his uncertainty earlier. He said he was taking a shower and he was thinking about life, me, and the future. I said I needed more than that and he followed up saying he can explain tomorrow and that he loves me very much.
After all this, I am just more confused. I should be happy that he wants to work things out but deep down I am questioning why the sudden change? I thought he needed time and space to think. I’m just very worried about trusting his word right now because just a few days ago my entire love life crumbled and I was such an emotional wreck and I’m just not sure how I feel about all this in the moment. From everything I explained so far, what would you suggest for me and for us? I just don’t know how I feel right now… what do you think?
May 5, 2020 at 9:29 am #353302
- This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by gamer.
I read your recent post and re-read previous posts. His state of mind reminds me of the title and some of the lyrics of the song Stuck in the Middle with You (1972): “.. Yes I’m stuck in the middle with you/ And I’m wondering what it is I should do.. Trying to make some sense of it all/ But I can see that it makes no sense at all.. Yes I’m stuck in the middle with you/ Stuck in the middle with you, here I am stuck in the middle with you”.
Here is some of what you shared: “He said he felt he was in the middle. On one end he wants to end things and the other end he wants to stay together and fix things.. he said he was stuck in the middle of making a decision. On one end is us ending, and the other is giving it a chance… He said he could not think properly and that is why he’s stuck.”
When you told him that you “wouldn’t want to be with someone who questions whether or not we should be together. He responded saying how it’s not being unsure but it’s making the same mistakes again if we were to be together”-
– what he told you, that “it’s not being unsure” is untrue. His state of mind, being stuck in the middle, is all about being unsure. So why did he say it’s not being unsure while it definitely and clearly is about being unsure..
No wonder you are confused: he is unsure and yet he tells you he is not unsure, denying what is true and pointing you to another direction (“making the same mistakes” etc.), as if you were on the wrong track when you brought up the unsure part.
And then, at 7:40 pm he sends you a message saying hat “he would like to fix things, and that is his decision. He asked me if I trusted his word and his decision”- did he trust his word and decision? I doubt it. When you asked him why the change, he told you that he “was taking a shower”, felt better and that’s the reason.
My conclusion this morning: I think it is way better that you end all your interactions with him today. It is possible that there is an element of dishonesty in his stuck in the middle state of mind. I say this because he denied being unsure, pointing you to another direction, away from the very reality of the situation.
There is also an element of him trivializing you and the prospect of resuming the relationship with you: asking why he changed his mind last evening, his answer: because he took a shower.
It is not fair to you to be stuck in that unpleasant middle with him while he is “leaning more towards” this way or that way, at different times. It is also unwise for you to voluntarily be in that middle with him: there is no benefit in you interacting with him at all while he is stuck in the middle, and it confuses and distresses you, understandably.
My recommendation: send him a message that you are removing yourself from that stuck-in-the-middle status with him by initiating No Contact (NC) with him for the rest of May of this year. You can add to your message a link to that song I mentioned.
If he calls or contacts you after the NC, do not respond to him- let me know what he said and we can discuss it and take it from there.
May 6, 2020 at 11:20 pm #353698
- This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by anita.
After reading your response, I told him how he was treating me like an option and that he was in fact unsure about us. I told him I respected his space but he was toying with my feelings and I don’t want to be with someone like that. I sent that to him and just logged out, I didn’t even care to see if he opened it or responded.
I didn’t talk to him the rest of the day, ignored his texts after I sent that msg and then he called me late at night. He asked me how I was doing and immensely apologized. He apologized for all that he had done, what he had said and told me that he was frustrated the day he asked me for space. He was frustrated with life and himself and he was overthinking and being anxious about us and that’s why he said it.
I immediately told him that it wasn’t fair that he let his frustration get in between us. He couldn’t even tell me he was frustrated and I asked him multiple times that day if he was feeling okay. He apologized even more and asked if there was anything he can do to help me feel okay and I said there was nothing he could’ve done because I just needed time to process what had happened for the past few days. I’m going to be honest we are on talking terms still, but I am not opening up my arms and just letting him in quickly. I am trying to process everything and I do talk to him on social media to simply check in. (No texting or calls)
But Anita I am so confused now. Apart of me wants to be with him but then apart of me is thinking if it’s the dead end of our relationship. The reason is because during this time where I gave him his space, I wasn’t comfortable with it. I cried nonstop, couldn’t focus on anything, waited to see if he texted. During this week I decided to journal just to clear my thoughts and it made me think of the qualities I want in a relationship. i want effort, love, respect, communication. Before we dated we were friends for about 2 months and even during friendship and beginning of dating, he put so much effort in. He made me feel so loved and valued, I was so so happy. Beyond happy to the point where I questioned if this was real and what I did to deserve this type of love (this is my first ever relationship). Flash forward to now, we just get into these arguments because of miscommunication, he doesn’t even put a fraction of time and energy or even effort. He does say he loves me and cares for me but doesn’t show me at all. So after reflecting on what I want, I don’t know what to do. I want to give him a chance after this break to see if we can truly be happy but then there’s another side where I believe I’ll just end up being disappointed. I always go above and beyond for him, always make him feel loved and show him, and I even tell him what he can do for me, but I haven’t seen that effort at all from him. Is it normal to think these things during our so called “space?”May 7, 2020 at 7:54 am #353820
“He asked me how I was doing and immensely apologized.. for all that he had done, what he had said.. He was frustrated with life and himself and he was overthinking and being anxious about us and that’s why he said it.. He apologized even more and asked if there was anything he can do to help me feel okay”-
– problem with his apology is that it doesn’t offer you any new information. You (and I) already know that he is stuck in the middle, and that he leans one way when he feels worse and the other way when he feels better (ex., after he took a shower, he felt better and leaned toward getting back together with you).
So he apologizes and then.. what happens next time when he feels frustrated? He didn’t say anything about that, did he.
It is similar to a person stepping on your foot, then apologizing profusely: I stepped on your foot because I was frustrated with my life, I am so very sorry, is there anything I can do to make your foot feel better? Some time later, he steps on your foot again, and you say: why are you doing that again?! And he says: oh, I am so sorry, I was frustrated with my life yet again. Is there anything I can do for your foot?
“during friendship and beginning of dating, he put so much effort in. He made me feel so loved and valued. I was so, so happy.. I questioned if this was real.. Now.. he doesn’t even put a fraction of time and energy or even effort. He does say he loves me and cares for me but doesn’t show me at all”-
You questioned earlier if his love was real. It was probably real but what if it was time limited and it has expired. What if you still love him and he doesn’t love you back.
I imagine, being stuck in the middle, he sometimes feels that he doesn’t want you in his life. Sometimes he feels guilty for that, and he apologizes.
In summary: his apologies changed nothing in the reality of the situation. The only thing his apologies mean is that maybe he feels badly for hurting you. It doesn’t mean that he is no longer stuck in the middle.
I understand that you grew very attached to him and to the love he once showed you, but that love is no longer there. What replaced his love for you is something that is breaking your heart (“Heartbroken” is in the title of your thread). Grieve that “madly in love” of the past, that is now gone, on his end. I know it hurts, but you will hurt more if you keep waiting for what is no longer there.
May 7, 2020 at 10:33 am #353848
- This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by anita.
<p class=”p1″><span class=”s1″>So this is where he’s at right now. When he had told me that he wanted to be with me after realizing things, it was because he said he wanted me by his side through everything. He didn’t want to not be with me and not have me by his side and he didn’t want to let go of that. He said he was always thinking of me and he wants to be with me and enjoy life together and be better together. He said he would do anything to make me happy and that he wanted to fix all of this mess he caused. He apologized again for wasting my time and energy, for hurting my feelings and for doing this all to me.</span></p>
<p class=”p1″><span class=”s1″>I asked him the same question as you had stated. “What happens if he’s frustrated again?” I told him that is so unfair for me to have to go through ALL of this because he felt frustrated and couldn’t properly clear his thoughts and feelings with me, even after I asked multiple times. </span></p>
<p class=”p1″><span class=”s1″>What do you mean by “the love was time limited and has expired?” I understand that most relationships are amazing throughout the honeymoon stage and then it gets real after that, which is what is happening in my case (I think). </span></p>
<p class=”p1″><span class=”s1″>I feel the same way that maybe I’m holding to the memories and wish for things to be like how they once were. And I can’t force any of that to happen — in the beginning he did all of that on his own. I didn’t have to tell him anything. All I know is right now I have him at a distance because I’m not going to accept his apology and forget everything and open my arms and give him a chance easily. I want him to earn my trust back and actually show me that he cares for me and loves me as he says he does. </span></p>
<p class=”p1″><span class=”s1″>I even asked him two day’s ago if he lost feelings for me and he said he hasn’t and that he was being honest. He asked me why I randomly asked that and well I described to him how confusing this whole thing made me feel. </span></p>May 7, 2020 at 12:33 pm #353864
“I asked him the same question as you have stated. ‘What happens if he’s frustrated again?'”-
– what was his answer???
“I told him that it is so unfair for me to have to go through ALL of this because he felt frustrated”- I agree.
“What do you mean by ‘the love was time limited and has expired?’ I understand that most relationships are amazing throughout the honeymoon stage and then it gets real after that”-
– intense romantic love (the honeymoon stage you mentioned) often does have an expiration date, and when it expires, couple either separate or stay together. If they stay together, they are either miserable or they adjust and make the relationship healthy, loving, valuable, a Win-Win arrangement.
In the latter possibility, when one of the two gets frustrated, he/ she doesn’t turn away from his partner (and settles in purgatory, a place between being in the relationship and ending the relationship), but instead he turns toward her for help and support.
anitaMay 7, 2020 at 12:54 pm #353868
He said it was wrong of him to get frustrated and he needed to control his reactions and anger. I had told him that I even asked what was wrong plenty of times and he never bothered to share. I myself also get caught in the moments of life and sometimes tend to take it out on others (which is what I’m working on) so I told him he must be willing to do the same.
Remember when I had told you he had childhood trauma and paranoia as well as anxiety? Here is a better explanation of all that. It all roots from his household and he deals with it everyday with his mom and is always paranoid and high sprung all the time because of her. (this is just an explanation that might help you understand maybe why he is like this).
But anyways he had said that it wasn’t fair to me and that he doesn’t know where he went wrong when I told him about how he was before vs. now. I told him that I didn’t mean to make him feel like he wasn’t enough but somewhere along the way, something changed and that’s why I hold on to the memories the most. I definitely agree that when someone is frustrated they shouldn’t just turn away but be towards the person and he said that was something he needed to work on.
I am meeting him tomorrow to give him his present and I made sure and asked if it was good beforehand. Since it’s his birthday I don’t want to talk about any of this and make his day not special, so tomorrow I will just give him his present and hang out for a little bit. I can update you tomorrow on our hang out and see how it goes.
May 7, 2020 at 1:28 pm #353876
- This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by gamer.
You mentioned that he had childhood trauma, but I didn’t know that his childhood trauma is still happening, that it is ongoing: if he is living with his mother, who was (and maybe still is) his abuser, and as a result, he “is always paranoid and high sprung all the time because of her”, then he is not able to have a healthy, stable, dependable relationship with you.
I think that it’s a good idea that you see him tomorrow and not mention any of this. I also think that you should give him space, but not for the purpose of him deciding if wants in or out of a relationship with you (I don’t think he is able to make this choice), but for the purpose of making his life easier while he is suffering from his ongoing- childhood trauma.
When you pressure him, you are making his life more difficult (It is like beating on a dog that is already injured), and you will achieve nothing positive for yourself.
His only hope for mental health and your only hope to have a healthy relationship with him is if he no longer lives with his mother, if he is no longer being traumatized by her, and if he then starts healing.
May 7, 2020 at 1:52 pm #353886
- This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by anita.
Yes you are right. I just thought that when we first met and became friends, everything was different and that to me, things were finally starting to fall into place with me and my life with him. Now a year later, I am not sure.
He mentioned to me today that I looked very sad (via snapchat) and of course I was but I felt like there is nothing more to say now or do. He said he made up his mind and his decision was to be with me and we will work out our issues and become happy but I feel there’s so much more to it and it’s definitely not easy. He even told me that he didn’t care about the present I had to give and that he just wanted to see me. So we will see tomorrow how it goes.
With what he has going on in his life, his personal problems and then me, I do not know if he will be able to give me that effort, love, appreciation and communication that I ask for. In the beginning it was easier, because he was getting to know me and it was very new and exciting for both of us – that we couldn’t get enough of each other. But things change.
I am still continuing the space and checking in via social media apps but we are not texting consistently, talking often or hanging out. I do want to mention all of this to him but right now isn’t the right time. When do you think would be an okay time to tell him all of this?May 7, 2020 at 2:08 pm #353890
“When do you thing would be an okay time to tell him all of this?”- you can tell him anything anytime (after his birthday), just don’t put pressure on him. And don’t expect anything from him.
“With what he has going on in his life, his personal problems and then me, I do not know if he will be able to give me that effort, love, appreciation and communication that I ask for”- good thinking on your part.
Basically, he is in trouble and he is not in the mental position to give you what you need. I know that when I lived with my mother, I was definitely in no position to have a healthy relationship with anyone!
Understanding that he is truly not able to give you what you need, you will still be sad, but not angry, and slowly you will accept this reality and be less and less sad. Maybe you can start (maybe) thinking of him not as a boyfriend, but as a friend only.
anitaMay 7, 2020 at 2:19 pm #353892
I think it’s best timing at the end of next week because by then, he will be done with examination levels. He’ll have much more time to focus on himself and how to become better. As for moving out, I don’t think that’s a possibility until he is done with school and graduated with a job which is a couple years from now.
I thought of being friends with him but it’s just so hard for me to do that because I am still in love with him despite all this. I wish I could easily move on and continue to be friends but it’s so hard especially since we’ve had physical and emotional connections. I feel that eventually we could be friends but to me, every time he messages, calls or texts, or I see pictures of us together, it just hurts me a lot. Some days I am okay and not upset but then other days, it’s back to square one of me being super emotional and upset because of all this.May 7, 2020 at 2:51 pm #353898
You are considerate of him, not wanting him stressed on his birthday and before his examinations.
Because “every time he messages, calls or texts” you feel hurt, and because you can’t be friends with him, and because you have good days but then contact with him causes you to go “back to square one”- what about going no contact with him after his examinations (if not before)?
anitaMay 8, 2020 at 8:44 pm #354100
Hi Anita. I met him today after about two months and to me it just felt so weird. Maybe because of what had happened this week? I just don’t know. It was quiet and I felt very odd by it and I mentioned it to him, and he said he didn’t feel that way at all – instead he felt happy because he saw me.
We hung out for an hour, talked and caught up. He wanted to clear things up about us since he had a feeling I was upset but I had told him that we shouldn’t talk about us and that we can do it another time. He agreed and reassured me that he loves me very much and wants to be with me and constantly thinks about me and us being back together. Personally, I had such a hard time believing and trusting it due to the past couple of days. I just can’t seem to move on from the fact that he was so unsure about us a few days ago…
We still have loads to talk about and I’m waiting until examination levels are over so we can clear things up. I’m not even sure how I feel about the idea of us being together right now if I’m being honest because of what already happened. But I may be saying this because I haven’t properly heard his explanation as to why he felt unsure in the first place, what made him “stuck in the middle”, what made him change his mind and deciding to be with me, and why is he 100% certain of it. After I find those things out, I can feel some type of peace in my heart and move forward on whether or not this will work out.
As for no contact, I decided to stick to the same method as we did before. No texting, no phone calls but simply check-ins through social media applications.
- This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by gamer.