Home→Forums→Emotional Mastery→How can I do what I wan’t to do with joy?
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beni.
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June 30, 2024 at 9:56 am #434422
TeeParticipantHi Beni,
Yeah, still skating and I’ve done some hours of construction work.
Wow, it seems your back is pretty stable at the moment, since you don’t feel any pain even after doing construction work. I am happy for you! BTW is construction work something you’d like to do more of, like a hobby or even a full time job? (I am asking because you mentioned that you were doing construction work last year too, when your back injury originally happened).
Let’s hope for the best. True holiday’s coming. What do you have planned?
Going to the seaside 🙂 Swimming should help both with my back and my knee…
You know when adult’s say to kids that they are simulating? Like that. It feels distant, it does affect me cause of the self betrayal.
I often felt like this is made up and I’m in a way justifying something I should rather confront.
Hmm, not really sure I am following… Could it be that you have a bit of a trauma response (a freeze response) when interacting with your mother? And in those moments, you feel dissociated, and therefore it feels like you’re simulating it? As if it’s not happening to you, and you feel separated from it? (Sorry for not always understanding you at first and needing to ask for clarifications…)
I saw it very clear, the ambivalence between being my mum’s child and in a way father.
I would like to express myself. Affection, a hug.
Does being your mom’s child mean (in an ideal case) to show her affection, to give her a hug? But then you worry that she would misuse it and start “stealing” from you (i.e. selfishly meeting her own needs). Stealing empathy, while not showing any empathy for you?
And so you want to protect yourself by not expressing anything, i.e. by being emotionally cold and distant, a little like your father. Which you feel guilty about. But you don’t know how else to interact with her, because you are afraid that she would misuse your empathy, right?
It’s simple things in the household clean the kitchen. Mostly it is support.
It could be that you don’t want to help her because you believe she would misunderstand it and see it as your agreeing with her – as you showing her empathy? Which you don’t want to. Perhaps staying “rebellious” (not wanting to help) means staying independent? Maintaining your own identity and your own will, separate of hers?
If so, I am familiar with that attitude. There was a time in my adolescence when I didn’t want to help much in the household because I didn’t want to be seen as a good and obedient daughter – because that was the last line of defense against my mother’s attempt to fully control me. So by behaving in rebellious ways (e.g. by not helping in the household and being “lazy” and kind of selfish), I thought I was defending myself from total psychological control of my mother’s.
I wonder if something similar is true for you?
July 1, 2024 at 7:08 am #434468
beniParticipantHi Tee,
Wow, it seems your back is pretty stable at the moment, since you don’t feel any pain even after doing construction work. I am happy for you! BTW is construction work something you’d like to do more of, like a hobby or even a full time job? (I am asking because you mentioned that you were doing construction work last year too, when your back injury originally happened).
Mhh, In the end I had pain and then I went on skate trip, expected it to get worse but it did not.
Going to the seaside 🙂 Swimming should help both with my back and my knee…
Juii, I love water sounds great.
Hmm, not really sure I am following… Could it be that you have a bit of a trauma response (a freeze response) when interacting with your mother? And in those moments, you feel dissociated, and therefore it feels like you’re simulating it? As if it’s not happening to you, and you feel separated from it? (Sorry for not always understanding you at first and needing to ask for clarifications…)
Thanks for rephrasing Tee. What I wanna say is that some parents do not take there kid’s experience serious. They say it’s being manipulative. They do not understand that the child may feel very very different about this and that it feels real to the child. It’s an ignorant perspective.
So sometimes I see my inner child out of that perspective.
Does being your mom’s child mean (in an ideal case) to show her affection, to give her a hug? But then you worry that she would misuse it and start “stealing” from you (i.e. selfishly meeting her own needs). Stealing empathy, while not showing any empathy for you?
I know it wouldn’t feel right. If I give her affection in a way I enable something I do not want to enable. I need affection from her first. It gives her allowance to be weak but I need a strong mother. I need an anchor.
And so you want to protect yourself by not expressing anything, i.e. by being emotionally cold and distant, a little like your father. Which you feel guilty about. But you don’t know how else to interact with her, because you are afraid that she would misuse your empathy, right?
I do not know how, yes. It feels like there is no way other than going through manageable doses of pain to go on in that process. I express myself. I hear her pain, I tell my pain. I suffer and take distance.
It could be that you don’t want to help her because you believe she would misunderstand it and see it as your agreeing with her – as you showing her empathy? Which you don’t want to. Perhaps staying “rebellious” (not wanting to help) means staying independent? Maintaining your own identity and your own will, separate of hers?
I would agree to her only being able to accept me if I meet her need. Yes, I draw a line. My body draws a line. Yes, it’s very essential, it is to maintain my Identity and my will.
If so, I am familiar with that attitude. There was a time in my adolescence when I didn’t want to help much in the household because I didn’t want to be seen as a good and obedient daughter – because that was the last line of defense against my mother’s attempt to fully control me. So by behaving in rebellious ways (e.g. by not helping in the household and being “lazy” and kind of selfish), I thought I was defending myself from total psychological control of my mother’s.
I wonder if something similar is true for you?
It is. I try to tell my mother to find things I can do. Where I have no blockage but she is not there yet where she can do that. She get’s a fierce look. As if she’s made responsible for something which is my fault.
enjoy your day dear Tee
July 2, 2024 at 12:35 pm #434558TeeParticipantHello dear Beni,
Mhh, In the end I had pain and then I went on skate trip, expected it to get worse but it did not.
Good that skating didn’t make it worse. Which probably means that your spine has developed some resilience and it’s not that sensitive any more.
Juii, I love water sounds great.
Yeah me too!
What I wanna say is that some parents do not take there kid’s experience serious. They say it’s being manipulative. They do not understand that the child may feel very very different about this and that it feels real to the child. It’s an ignorant perspective.
Has your mother (or father) ever told you that you are making a big deal out of nothing and that you surely cannot be as hurt as you are claiming to be? Have they tried to deny your experience and tell you that you are too sensitive and/or faking being hurt?
I know it wouldn’t feel right. If I give her affection in a way I enable something I do not want to enable. I need affection from her first. It gives her allowance to be weak but I need a strong mother. I need an anchor.
Okay, that’s important: you need an anchor. You need a strong mother. You need a mother who is able to soothe you and protect you, not vice versa. It seems she wanted you to meet her emotional needs (e.g. to kiss her and hug her so she wouldn’t feel unlovable), and that’s not something a parent should expect from the child. And you couldn’t meet that need – your reaction was to freeze because it was overwhelming.
Because when a child is afraid, he needs his parent to be soothing and encouraging. He doesn’t need a parent who is equally fearful and insecure. Or a parent who is sad and preoccupied with their own issues and who doesn’t pay attention to the child’s needs. If the child needs soothing, and the mother is preoccupied with herself, or starts worrying instead of being able to soothe the child, the child feels threatened. And one possible reaction is to freeze.
Anyway, now you are an adult, and you’ll have to create that anchor, i.e. that strong “mother”, within yourself. You shouldn’t wait for your mother to change and become the source of that strength and support – you need to create it in yourself.
Give yourself encouragement, or seek encouragement (for the things you’d like to achieve) outside of your parents. You can seek it in coaches, therapists, support groups, people who are already doing what you want to do. You need to find an anchor elsewhere and stop expecting her to give you that strength and courage (or whatever quality you feel you are missing).
I do not know how, yes. It feels like there is no way other than going through manageable doses of pain to go on in that process. I express myself. I hear her pain, I tell my pain. I suffer and take distance.
It seems that when you tell her your pain, you are still hoping that she would be able to relieve it. But she isn’t. She can’t give you the strength/support/encouragement you are hoping for. So your every encounter is painful because you are seeking something she cannot give you. She is burdening you with her own pain, instead of relieving you of your pain. It’s like adding insult to injury.
That’s why it seems to me you’d need to stop hoping to have your emotional needs met by her. You’d need to start finding ways to meet your own needs and seeking people who can help you in that endeavor. Become emotionally “unhooked” from your mother, so to speak.
I would agree to her only being able to accept me if I meet her need.
It seems she doesn’t like it when you don’t show empathy for her. If you are cold and distant. If you don’t let her complain about her problems, right? She doesn’t like your protective shell. And you don’t want to get out of that shell, because it would hurt you even more (what I said earlier: her pain is added onto your own pain, and it is too much to bear).
Yes, I draw a line. My body draws a line. Yes, it’s very essential, it is to maintain my Identity and my will.
It seems you withdraw into your protective shell, so not to be overwhelmed by too much pain (both hers and yours). And maybe also not to lose focus from yourself, because if you start focusing on her and her problems, you tend to lose yourself, or forget what you want, or start feeling guilty for wanting those things? Perhaps you fear getting enmeshed with her, so you are hiding in that shell, to keep your own space and identity intact.
I try to tell my mother to find things I can do. Where I have no blockage but she is not there yet where she can do that. She get’s a fierce look. As if she’s made responsible for something which is my fault.
Ok, so you try to negotiate with her to give you tasks where you won’t feel misused? (because you said you’re only willing to help her if you feel that her requirement is “selfless”). She doesn’t like your conditions and she gives you a strict/angry look (you called it a “fierce” look).
Maybe she feels you are too demanding (or lazy/unhelpful), and not her? And that her requirement/plea for help is justified? While you are unjustly accusing her? (As if she’s made responsible for something which is my fault.)
Is this what is happening?
It does seem to me that your attitude towards helping her is a defensive stance – you withdrawing into your protective shell and not wanting to be “used” by her, for fear of getting emotionally overwhelmed and overtaken by her. I think it’s a bit of an overreaction, but I understand where you are coming from. You don’t want to give anything of yourself, because you feel so burdened already, that any additional pain of hers (and an expectation to be soothed by you) comes with a risk to overwhelm you. So when she needs help, even if it is as simple as cleaning up the kitchen – you feel it might deplete you even further and take you away from yourself and your own needs and desires.
So refusing to help in the kitchen becomes like a self-protection tool, albeit a misguided one, because if I am guessing right, you are still hoping to have your emotional needs met by her. So you are still kind of dependent on her, even if you are trying to protect yourself from her…
Let me know what you think?
July 3, 2024 at 12:15 am #434592TeeParticipantHi Beni,
I want to correct something I said in my latest post:
It does seem to me that your attitude towards helping her is a defensive stance – you withdrawing into your protective shell and not wanting to be “used” by her, for fear of getting emotionally overwhelmed and overtaken by her. I think it’s a bit of an overreaction, but I understand where you are coming from.
I said it’s an overreaction. But if it is a freeze response (“I draw a line. My body draws a line”), it’s not conscious – it is what your body and your nervous system do automatically. When you are in the freeze response, your rational mind isn’t “online”, so you cannot really control your reactions. So I just wanted to clarify that, because I don’t want to sound as if I am blaming you for being overly reactive. The freeze response is not your fault – it’s an automatic reaction when we feel in danger.
There are techniques to get out of the freeze response, which include moving our body. I am sure you have looked into it already, but here are 3 really useful youtube videos, by psychotherapists that I respect a lot:
“This is what it’s like to be in freeze” and “Unfreeze yourself“, by The Holistic Psychologist channel, and
“Are you stuck in freeze mode? How to turn off the freeze response“, by Therapy in a Nutshell.
I hope it helps, if you’re not already familiar with it.
Have a nice day yourself!
July 3, 2024 at 8:19 am #434606beniParticipantHi Tee,
Has your mother (or father) ever told you that you are making a big deal out of nothing and that you surely cannot be as hurt as you are claiming to be? Have they tried to deny your experience and tell you that you are too sensitive and/or faking being hurt?
I think what I learned is that I do this by intention. That’s probably why I feel guilty.
Anyway, now you are an adult, and you’ll have to create that anchor, i.e. that strong “mother”, within yourself. You shouldn’t wait for your mother to change and become the source of that strength and support – you need to create it in yourself.
I want to give that to me and I don’t know how. I wanna take responsibility. All I can give is to give space to me and it seem I can’t get enough of it and have no control except that it always works out somehow. My dad turns 60 and throws a big party I made shure I have time and I really want to go but right know it feels like I can’t go. Now I’m creating space for that.
Give yourself encouragement, or seek encouragement (for the things you’d like to achieve) outside of your parents. You can seek it in coaches, therapists, support groups, people who are already doing what you want to do. You need to find an anchor elsewhere and stop expecting her to give you that strength and courage (or whatever quality you feel you are missing).
I’m not expecting that conscious. I think my parents have not much capacity to care for me or they expect me to ask which I don’t do. I think about seeking help and sometimes I did as when I did this post. It takes long and at least I talk to people that I do not have many impulses to seek help.r I’d need an online therapist and I somehow need to create space for that person and do not know how. I mean you are supporting me in that way out of goodwill <3
It seems that when you tell her your pain, you are still hoping that she would be able to relieve it. But she isn’t. She can’t give you the strength/support/encouragement you are hoping for. So your every encounter is painful because you are seeking something she cannot give you. She is burdening you with her own pain, instead of relieving you of your pain. It’s like adding insult to injury.
Mhh, I wonder if I do belief that subconscious. I think it’s also working with her is like working with me cause I kinda treat myself like she treated me but the last time was too painful and now I need to stay away. I don’t know how long.
That’s why it seems to me you’d need to stop hoping to have your emotional needs met by her. You’d need to start finding ways to meet your own needs and seeking people who can help you in that endeavor. Become emotionally “unhooked” from your mother, so to speak.
It’s good to hear. I need to hear this. It takes so long if I tell something to me. I need have people say things to me. I work on meeting my needs. I belief I need something like a family to be able to do a regular job and live at a place for longer than 1 month.
The things I tried feel failed and I’m afraid if I fail again now it’s too painful.It seems she doesn’t like it when you don’t show empathy for her. If you are cold and distant. If you don’t let her complain about her problems, right? She doesn’t like your protective shell. And you don’t want to get out of that shell, because it would hurt you even more (what I said earlier: her pain is added onto your own pain, and it is too much to bear).
She needs the connection. She probably feels like there’s something wrong with her when people block. Like I do. Yes, I need to protect me.
It seems you withdraw into your protective shell, so not to be overwhelmed by too much pain (both hers and yours). And maybe also not to lose focus from yourself, because if you start focusing on her and her problems, you tend to lose yourself, or forget what you want, or start feeling guilty for wanting those things? Perhaps you fear getting enmeshed with her, so you are hiding in that shell, to keep your own space and identity intact.
Mhh, yeah I would. I’m at a point where it is too painful to withdraw from pain. Which is good and also scary.
Ok, so you try to negotiate with her to give you tasks where you won’t feel misused? (because you said you’re only willing to help her if you feel that her requirement is “selfless”). She doesn’t like your conditions and she gives you a strict/angry look (you called it a “fierce” look).
Yes or in your words: ‘a task where I do not freeze’! I’d like to find a way to show her that she can meet her need for support and I can meet my need for autonomy.
Maybe she feels you are too demanding (or lazy/unhelpful), and not her? And that her requirement/plea for help is justified? While you are unjustly accusing her? (As if she’s made responsible for something which is my fault.)
I think she beliefs it’s my duty as her child to support her. Yeah, you say the same thing. It’s most difficult do give to people who think it’s their born right to receive and take it for granted.
It does seem to me that your attitude towards helping her is a defensive stance – you withdrawing into your protective shell and not wanting to be “used” by her, for fear of getting emotionally overwhelmed and overtaken by her. I think it’s a bit of an overreaction, but I understand where you are coming from. You don’t want to give anything of yourself, because you feel so burdened already, that any additional pain of hers (and an expectation to be soothed by you) comes with a risk to overwhelm you. So when she needs help, even if it is as simple as cleaning up the kitchen – you feel it might deplete you even further and take you away from yourself and your own needs and desires.
I think I want her to really see me and see me equal. I have the same right to choose the task as she does. It’s not really about the task it’s about control and me making a statement that I do not wish to be controlled. I want to be asked what I would like to do and what is needed. I want my support to be valued and not taken for granted.
So refusing to help in the kitchen becomes like a self-protection tool, albeit a misguided one, because if I am guessing right, you are still hoping to have your emotional needs met by her. So you are still kind of dependent on her, even if you are trying to protect yourself from her…
I’ll reflect about it. Isn’t it also about the people pleaser thing why I do that in the end? I’ve been thinking that I am dependent on her (subconscious). Cause I noticed that the things which stress her out like go traveling, working a regular job, not misusing drugs, having a girlfriend are things I struggle(d) creating for myself.
It sometimes feels like that I am my mom and my self is this thing I can’t control. And all I wish is that I would not need to care about myself. It would just do what it is supposed to do.I said it’s an overreaction. But if it is a freeze response (“I draw a line. My body draws a line”), it’s not conscious – it is what your body and your nervous system do automatically. When you are in the freeze response, your rational mind isn’t “online”, so you cannot really control your reactions. So I just wanted to clarify that, because I don’t want to sound as if I am blaming you for being overly reactive. The freeze response is not your fault – it’s an automatic reaction when we feel in danger.
Thank’s for clarifying Tee.
There are techniques to get out of the freeze response, which include moving our body. I am sure you have looked into it already, but here are 3 really useful youtube videos, by psychotherapists that I respect a lot:
“This is what it’s like to be in freeze” and “Unfreeze yourself“, by The Holistic Psychologist channel, and
“Are you stuck in freeze mode? How to turn off the freeze response“, by Therapy in a Nutshell.
Mhh, sounds like I’m quite often in a freeze response or I feel what I can do without getting into a freeze response and only do that.
I hope it helps, if you’re not already familiar with it.
I’ll download the books.
Thanks Tee,
feel free to shorten the text. I been quite emotional today I think I wrote things reasonable but feel free to question and ask and also I want you to know that I do not expect a reply and feel grateful if you do a reply.
July 8, 2024 at 10:24 am #434801TeeParticipantDear Beni,
As I was reading your post, a few things stood out:
I do not have many impulses to seek help
I kinda treat myself like she treated me
I’m quite often in a freeze response
all I wish is that I would not need to care about myself.
It sounds as if you don’t like that you have needs, and you also don’t like that you need other people to meet those needs. Because the people that should have met your needs (your parents) haven’t done the job properly: your mother burdened you with her own unmet emotional needs, to which you didn’t know how to respond but to freeze. And your father wasn’t emotionally present and couldn’t meet your needs either.
I think that’s why you don’t have many impulses to seek help because that was futile in your childhood. You never had your needs met. And so you withdrew into your shell.
I think about seeking help and sometimes I did as when I did this post. It takes long and at least I talk to people that I do not have many impulses to seek help.r I’d need an online therapist and I somehow need to create space for that person and do not know how. I mean you are supporting me in that way out of goodwill <3
Yes, you did seek help here, and I am glad I could support you to a degree <3
she beliefs it’s my duty as her child to support her. Yeah, you say the same thing. It’s most difficult do give to people who think it’s their born right to receive and take it for granted.
I think I want her to really see me and see me equal. I have the same right to choose the task as she does. It’s not really about the task it’s about control and me making a statement that I do not wish to be controlled. I want to be asked what I would like to do and what is needed. I want my support to be valued and not taken for granted.
Your mother didn’t meet your emotional needs – she didn’t give you what she was supposed to – and yet, she had (and still has) expectations on you, e.g. to clean the kitchen or provide other types of help in the household. She sometimes (when she is upset) raises her voice and tells you (sort of orders you) to clean the kitchen, but you don’t want to obey any kind of command, because you expect to be treated with respect. You don’t want to be bossed around. And so you don’t do it. You withdraw from the interaction, which makes her even more angry (having a fierce look).
Isn’t it also about the people pleaser thing why I do that in the end? I’ve been thinking that I am dependent on her (subconscious). Cause I noticed that the things which stress her out like go traveling, working a regular job, not misusing drugs, having a girlfriend are things I struggle(d) creating for myself.
Does it mean your mother sometimes criticizes you for changing places a lot, not having a regular job, misusing drugs, not having a girlfriend? And you feel guilty about those things. Or you want to please her and achieve those things?
You say you’ve tried to achieve it in the past, but failed so far:
I work on meeting my needs. I belief I need something like a family to be able to do a regular job and live at a place for longer than 1 month.
The things I tried feel failed and I’m afraid if I fail again now it’s too painful.
These needs – to have a family, a regular job, and a permanent address – seem to be more like your mother’s needs, not your own. I mean, these things might be expected of you, but are they really your needs? You did express you want to have a partner, but maybe a regular job not so much? I don’t know, I am just inquiring…
When I was taking about meeting your needs, I meant more emotional needs such as self-soothing and self-care. Those are even physical needs, at the level of the nervous system: the need to feel calm in our body, the need to be held and supported and soothed.
There are various somatic exercises for that, such as self-hug, or placing one hand on your belly and the other on your heart and breathing deeply. Those are basic, somatic needs – to feel safe and calm in our body.
I think this would be the first task – to try to meet those needs yourself, or find a somatic therapist who can provide that safe space for you – both physically and emotionally safe space.
You did say you need a hug from your mother. The goal would be to give yourself a nourishing, supportive hug. Or find a therapist who can give you such a hug. With no expectations from you – so that you can simply receive.
I think such somatic practices would also help you with unfreezing. Because you might first need to feel safety in your nervous system, before you can start dreaming big dreams about the future and what you want to accomplish etc. You need to feel that someone has your back while you go out into the world to explore.
It’s like creating a safe space, a place called emotional home. Where you can always go back to find soothing and encouragement. Which you didn’t have at home. So you’d need to create it now, and it’s best done with the help of a therapist you trust.
All I can give is to give space to me and it seem I can’t get enough of it and have no control except that it always works out somehow. My dad turns 60 and throws a big party I made shure I have time and I really want to go but right know it feels like I can’t go. Now I’m creating space for that.
Actually, when you say you are “creating space” for going to your father’s birthday party, what do you mean by that? Does it perhaps involve creating a feeling of safety in your body as well? Telling yourself that things will be fine, i.e. soothing yourself? What does it involve, if I may ask?
Let me know if this whole idea of creating a physically and emotionally safe space resonates with you. I am not a therapist, so I am just guessing and throwing in ideas. I do hope it makes some sense though…
July 12, 2024 at 3:07 am #434936beniParticipantHi Tee,
I think I had a breakthrough. I can suddenly say fuck off (in a nice way) to people and I say it to everything which appears in my experience and does not meet my needs. Even to myself and I noticed that I can just shake my body like a child which cannot sit still to shake of freeze.
It sounds as if you don’t like that you have needs, and you also don’t like that you need other people to meet those needs. Because the people that should have met your needs (your parents) haven’t done the job properly: your mother burdened you with her own unmet emotional needs, to which you didn’t know how to respond but to freeze. And your father wasn’t emotionally present and couldn’t meet your needs either.
I think that’s why you don’t have many impulses to seek help because that was futile in your childhood. You never had your needs met. And so you withdrew into your shell.
Yes, that’s it.
Yes, you did seek help here, and I am glad I could support you to a degree <3
Thanks Tee it really makes a different.
Your mother didn’t meet your emotional needs – she didn’t give you what she was supposed to – and yet, she had (and still has) expectations on you, e.g. to clean the kitchen or provide other types of help in the household. She sometimes (when she is upset) raises her voice and tells you (sort of orders you) to clean the kitchen, but you don’t want to obey any kind of command, because you expect to be treated with respect. You don’t want to be bossed around. And so you don’t do it. You withdraw from the interaction, which makes her even more angry (having a fierce look).
Yes, she kinda knows that intellectually but she has not been able to change it. That’s why I want to stay away atm.
Does it mean your mother sometimes criticizes you for changing places a lot, not having a regular job, misusing drugs, not having a girlfriend? And you feel guilty about those things. Or you want to please her and achieve those things?
You say you’ve tried to achieve it in the past, but failed so far:
It’s the other way around I do those things when I can get out of freeze which keeps me comply.
These needs – to have a family, a regular job, and a permanent address – seem to be more like your mother’s needs, not your own. I mean, these things might be expected of you, but are they really your needs? You did express you want to have a partner, but maybe a regular job not so much? I don’t know, I am just inquiring…
I mean I seek to have balance and stability but I will have my own strategies and not my mothers!
When I was taking about meeting your needs, I meant more emotional needs such as self-soothing and self-care. Those are even physical needs, at the level of the nervous system: the need to feel calm in our body, the need to be held and supported and soothed.
There are various somatic exercises for that, such as self-hug, or placing one hand on your belly and the other on your heart and breathing deeply. Those are basic, somatic needs – to feel safe and calm in our body.
Ah I do such things. Maybe I can hug me more. Meditation is like that.
I think this would be the first task – to try to meet those needs yourself, or find a somatic therapist who can provide that safe space for you – both physically and emotionally safe space.
You did say you need a hug from your mother. The goal would be to give yourself a nourishing, supportive hug. Or find a therapist who can give you such a hug. With no expectations from you – so that you can simply receive.
I think such somatic practices would also help you with unfreezing. Because you might first need to feel safety in your nervous system, before you can start dreaming big dreams about the future and what you want to accomplish etc. You need to feel that someone has your back while you go out into the world to explore.
Yes, I agree.
It’s like creating a safe space, a place called emotional home. Where you can always go back to find soothing and encouragement. Which you didn’t have at home. So you’d need to create it now, and it’s best done with the help of a therapist you trust.
Juii, cool. I think if I can stay in the space I’m right now I’m saved let’s see what happens in the next weeks.
July 15, 2024 at 8:13 am #435026TeeParticipantHi Beni,
I think I had a breakthrough. I can suddenly say fuck off (in a nice way) to people and I say it to everything which appears in my experience and does not meet my needs.
Very good! So you can say No to the things you don’t want, to something that goes against your needs and your interests. Congratulations, Beni, that’s a big step!
Even to myself and I noticed that I can just shake my body like a child which cannot sit still to shake of freeze.
Also, you can say No to yourself. Is it in situations where you would want to indulge in things that you know are not good for you? Or in situations where your automatic reaction would be to freeze? But now you know better and you choose a more mature response, which is aligned with your true self?
Thanks Tee it really makes a different.
You are welcome, Beni, I am really glad this is helping you.
Yes, she kinda knows that intellectually but she has not been able to change it. That’s why I want to stay away atm.
Ah, she understands that you don’t want to be bossed around, but she can’t help but lash out from time to time, right?
It’s the other way around I do those things when I can get out of freeze which keeps me comply.
I mean I seek to have balance and stability but I will have my own strategies and not my mothers!
Alright, so when you are in freeze, you are kind of depressed, doing nothing, perhaps using drugs to numb the pain? And then when you get out of freeze, you try to achieve some of your own goals, but you feel like your mother is trying to tell you what to do and what to achieve, so it feels like she is trying to control you?
That would be in line with what you’ve said that you want to stay independent of her, and that refusing to clean the kitchen (i.e. refusing to obey her orders) is a way of maintaining that psychological independence. So perhaps staying in freeze is also a way to stay psychologically independent from her – because you are withdrawn in your own shell and unreachable to her, and so she cannot control you?
Ah I do such things. Maybe I can hug me more. Meditation is like that.
Good! I am glad you are practicing some of the somatic tools.
I think if I can stay in the space I’m right now I’m saved let’s see what happens in the next weeks.
You said that right now you are in the space where you are able to say No to other people’s requests, if they don’t align with your true needs. Do you think that with this new mindset, you’ll be able to participate in your father’s birthday party? Because earlier you said that you most probably won’t be able to go (My dad turns 60 and throws a big party I made shure I have time and I really want to go but right know it feels like I can’t go). Perhaps this has changed now?
July 22, 2024 at 8:16 am #435243beniParticipantHi Tee,
Also, you can say No to yourself. Is it in situations where you would want to indulge in things that you know are not good for you? Or in situations where your automatic reaction would be to freeze? But now you know better and you choose a more mature response, which is aligned with your true self?
I wrote it like these to things are connected but they are not. I think what I meant was that some parts are actually not me, they are someone else. This part’s I send away. These parts often also make me doubt my own boundaries and needs.
Ah, she understands that you don’t want to be bossed around, but she can’t help but lash out from time to time, right?
Yes, she she’s it but can’t change it.
Alright, so when you are in freeze, you are kind of depressed, doing nothing, perhaps using drugs to numb the pain?
Drugs don’t work for me. I have not tried psychedelics maybe they could. Conventional drugs do not really help. Listening to music helps it kinda makes the pain more enjoyable. Eating also doesn’t work anymore to cope. To cope creates confusion and clarity I have no space for that in my mind.
And then when you get out of freeze, you try to achieve some of your own goals, but you feel like your mother is trying to tell you what to do and what to achieve, so it feels like she is trying to control you?
Yes, it’s like a port of her in me. I want that part to go away.
That would be in line with what you’ve said that you want to stay independent of her, and that refusing to clean the kitchen (i.e. refusing to obey her orders) is a way of maintaining that psychological independence. So perhaps staying in freeze is also a way to stay psychologically independent from her – because you are withdrawn in your own shell and unreachable to her, and so she cannot control you?
I think I do freeze because I need to suppress my boundaries to be able to please someone which does not respect them.
You said that right now you are in the space where you are able to say No to other people’s requests, if they don’t align with your true needs. Do you think that with this new mindset, you’ll be able to participate in your father’s birthday party? Because earlier you said that you most probably won’t be able to go (My dad turns 60 and throws a big party I made shure I have time and I really want to go but right know it feels like I can’t go). Perhaps this has changed now?
My body is very clear about that. It feels like no way. I tried to start a process with my dad but I think he lacks the empathy and curiosity to make me feel save. So I could open up and we could find a way which I can attend.
I think the main thing is that my mum said:” I don’t even know if you attend at the birthday”. From that point on it shifted and it feels too dangerous to risk my integrity. I feel it’s unfair to my dad cause he got in between also I do not know anyone else who could help, my mom has no close friends. I could call her psychiatrist.
Also I can accept how it is right now, it might be necessary for my mental health to split very clear for me to fully let go.July 23, 2024 at 11:31 am #435314TeeParticipantHi Beni,
It sometimes feels like that I am my mom and my self is this thing I can’t control. And all I wish is that I would not need to care about myself. It would just do what it is supposed to do.
I think what I meant was that some parts are actually not me, they are someone else. This part’s I send away. These parts often also make me doubt my own boundaries and needs.
It’s like a part of her in me. I want that part to go away.
This part is probably your inner critic: the internalized voice of your mother, who is telling you how you should live your life. Also, it seems this part criticizes and blames you for having needs of your own, for not putting your mother’s needs and wants first. It blames you for wanting to have a life of your own, separately of what she wants.
This part could perhaps be called the “Mother pleaser” (or more generally, the people pleaser): the part of you that feels guilty (and unlovable) for having his own needs and wants.
I think I had a breakthrough. I can suddenly say fuck off (in a nice way) to people and I say it to everything which appears in my experience and does not meet my needs. Even to myself and I noticed that I can just shake my body like a child which cannot sit still to shake of freeze.
It seems you had a breakthrough in the ability to say No to your inner critic: when your inner critic (your “Mother pleaser”) criticizes you for not abiding to your mother’s wishes, you don’t feel guilty as you used to, but you tell it to f*** off. You don’t chastise yourself, but you respect your own boundaries, and your own needs. Is that what’s happening?
My body is very clear about that. It feels like no way. I tried to start a process with my dad but I think he lacks the empathy and curiosity to make me feel save. So I could open up and we could find a way which I can attend.
What do you feel you need from him so you could attend the party? What is it that you fear the most might happen at the party (if you feel comfortable answering)?
I think the main thing is that my mum said:” I don’t even know if you attend at the birthday”. From that point on it shifted and it feels too dangerous to risk my integrity.
Do you feel that was a criticism from your mother? That she was chastising you for not wanting to be at the party (thus showing a lack of empathy and understanding for you)?
I feel it’s unfair to my dad cause he got in between also I do not know anyone else who could help, my mom has no close friends. I could call her psychiatrist.
You mean you would like someone (e.g. her psychiatrist) to talk to your mother, so she would change her behavior towards you, and would stop hurting you with her demands and expectations? So you would feel safer around her?
If so, I am afraid that’s not a realistic expectation, because you can’t really control her behavior. What you can control is your reaction to her behavior.
For example, if you want to feel safe around her, you would need to be able to set healthy boundaries, rather than expect her to be perfectly compassionate and not hurt you with her behavior. In other words, you would need to stop hoping that she would change – you would need to change so that her behavior isn’t hurting you and throwing you off balance anymore.
I am not claiming that you indeed are expecting your mother to change, but mentioning it just in case, because that’s often what we hope for: that our parents would finally change and give us what they haven’t given us in childhood. Which is a misguided hope…
August 19, 2024 at 1:39 am #436358beniParticipantHi dear Tee,
Mhh, yes and also I don’t even wanna say this inner critic part is me. It does not feel like I suppress it. I read a quote form Deepak Chopra:” Awakingng is not becoming you. It’s unbecoming who you are not”. This sound like my expirience.
I think in Buddhism they call it dualistic expirience. I think when I accept this part as me it makes it possible to please. When something in life communicates this way I need to act or stay away. I need to protect my space and mind. With words or actions. I think this way the heart can stay open. I trust that I give the space and attention to the parts which feel spacious, me, good or however it’s called it will go away and I will be able to draw a more clear line. At this point I’ll probably be able to be able to not loose myself facing pleasing or people who communicate in dualistic/psychotic ways. (meet their needs on my cost) I’m not shure if this is what’s called psychotic but it makes sense this way.I don’t want this part at all at the moment. When I give it space I feel depressed and I want to withdraw. So I did not attend I found another way to value my need to honour my dad.
What you can control is your reaction to her behavior.
I think I cannot control my reaction at this point. I need to strengthen myself more. I better stay away from people who disrespect or try to please me on their cost. It made me feel angry recently. It’s a boundry I have. I need to be able to trust in people that they say no when they feel no and if someone does not do that I do not wan’t to see them atm.
I think I’m at the point where I accept that I cannot do this process with my mom as she is at a different spot and waiting is painful. Thanks for pointing my attention there.
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