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How can I do what I wan’t to do with joy?

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  • #420126
    beni
    Participant

    Dear Sangha,

    I feel there’s something missing in the way I manifest what I want.

    I’m often stuck in knowing what I wan’t but not how and then I just start going to figure it out. Often doing it feels like a bourden and there is little joy. I talk about stuff which is fun like Painting, Gardening. There’s no pressure, it’s meaningfull things.

    It could have something to do with this inner belief that I have to do everything myself which makes it very difficult to ask for help (I feel guilty when I manage)

    I don’t really understand it, it feels like I see the start and the end but no in between. The in between is scary.  It’s restless. If I wan’t to buy something it’s easiest to just buy it than to get i. this weird process.

    If you figured this out or know some good ressources let me know.

     

    #420136
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Benedikt,

    Often doing it feels like a bourden and there is little joy. I talk about stuff which is fun like Painting, Gardening. There’s no pressure, it’s meaningfull things.

    Are painting and gardening things that you would like to try, like hobbies, or it’s something which feels more like chores? Usually, we find joy in our hobbies, because those are the things we like and no one forces us to do them. On the contrary, if the joy is missing, maybe it means there is some expectation on yourself that you should do those things, but you don’t really want to.

    It could have something to do with this inner belief that I have to do everything myself which makes it very difficult to ask for help (I feel guilty when I manage)

    I don’t really understand it, it feels like I see the start and the end but no in between. The in between is scary.

    Yes, it could be that you feel you need to do everything by yourself, which takes out the joy from it. Could it be that what you feel is something like this: you’d like to have a nice garden, but you don’t know how to go about it. You feel you need to figure it out all by yourself, and that’s scary. And you feel you can’t ask anyone because you will be seen as a burden if you do?

     

    #420153
    Helcat
    Participant

    Hi Benedikt

    It’s honestly hard to say without more context.

    I know that I have felt similarly in the past when I felt a disconnect between what I wanted for my life and what actually was.

    It sounds like you’re putting a lot of pressure on yourself.

    I have found that the most important thing to have is patience with yourself because we are often out of control in regards to the timeframe of when things happen. Some things take a lot of time, hard work and are difficult to achieve.

    I find it helpful to focus on one step at a time. There is a saying. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

    It sounds like your first step is planning how to achieve your goal. It’s a good idea to ask for help at this stage if you’re experiencing difficulties with it. There is no shame in it. Though it can feel uncomfortable for independent folks.

    Wishing you all the best! 🙏

    #420161
    Peter
    Participant

    Hi Benedikt

    I tend to get in my head about most things which makes the experience of joy and happiness that much tougher. Imagine trying to think and measure your way into joy, contentment, happiness. I tend to forget that words such as joy and happiness are experiences and not ‘things’ created.  Such things are happenings. (language and ego consciousness are dualistic by necessity so difficult to express – thus a happening happens regardless of if you let it happen or try to control it. However, an attempt to control a happening, though still a happening, most likely won’t be experienced that way.)

    Taoism has the concept Wu Wei  ‘non-doing,’ (all wisdom traditions have similar notion if not always understood) Wu Wei is not so much about ‘doing nothing’ as it is about aligning our movement with the greater flow of life. Often referred to as ‘natural action,’ Wu Wei does not involve excessive effort or struggle, but a kind of ‘going with the flow’ where we are able to move with the energy of the moment and respond freely to whatever situation that arises. From a western perspective; perhaps a act of will that is the letting go of will.

    Doing and Being… two of the great dualisms everyone struggles with… what if I suggested that they aren’t opposites? That there not even two sides of the same coin as in heads OR tails. As a metaphor perhaps heads AND tails, but then where is the fun in flipping it in the air. Here’s a riddle for you what is the word for something that is both doing and being, in and out, up and down… happy and sad? 

    You used the word ‘manifest’. Manifest a kind of doing, setting intention, direction, pulling the draw string with the arrow back AND Being, letting the arrow fly. Doing tends to focus and measurement and control (ego) while Being is All about the whole experience, no measurements, no language, required. (The bliss of not having to name something to experience it! Not even the words like joy or happiness! I wonder if the ‘emptiness’ Zen points to isn’t partly the emptiness of a space of no words?)

    The archer pulling back the draw strings of the bow, aiming at a target. Doing is ‘happy’ when intention and result align. Nothing wrong with that only notice any expectation of happy if I hit the target OR sad when I don’t. But Being, Being is alive in the whole process most especially the release and of the arrow, the excitement and terror of not knowing, feeling and experiencing all the things.

    Doing tends to view the arrow as separate, but for Being there is no separation. Being is the archer, the bow the arrow, the air and target. Feel the energy in the archer and bow as the arrow is held ready pointed in a direction, and then release, whoosh, feel the arrow slicing through the air, flying, the terror, wonder… ‘thunk’…  Hit, miss, new, exhilarated! If just those moments… we don’t forget

    Again! the child cries out! Again!

    Perhaps the art of manifesting is getting out of the way?

     

    #420162
    beni
    Participant

    Hi Tee,

    Thanks for the reply. I’m very grateful for this.

    “Are painting and gardening things that you would like to try, like hobbies, or it’s something which feels more like chores? Usually, we find joy in our hobbies, because those are the things we like and no one forces us to do them. On the contrary, if the joy is missing, maybe it means there is some expectation on yourself that you should do those things, but you don’t really want to.”

    Yes, it’s hobbies I’m doing and when I think about doing it it feels good. Just doing it often feels like a wheelbarrel with a flat tire.

    “Yes, it could be that you feel you need to do everything by yourself, which takes out the joy from it. Could it be that what you feel is something like this: you’d like to have a nice garden, but you don’t know how to go about it. You feel you need to figure it out all by yourself, and that’s scary. And you feel you can’t ask anyone because you will be seen as a burden if you do?”

    I know which is the next step to take. There is fear involved, I tend to freeze and have a blackout. I can be fully present, no thought’s and still blackout. I think it’s part of this wheelbarrel state. My current strategy is/was to just keep going and learn by doing. It is scary.

    I feel guilty if I get help from someone. It’s hard to receive.

    #420163
    beni
    Participant

    I have an update on the topic:

    The Titel of the Post is: “How can I do what I want with joy” – the negative would be: I know what I wan’t to do but I don’t want to do it.
    I ask this Guru ChatGPT and it told me a few things one of them was a lack of clarity why I’m doing it. Right know I belief that  what I actually want is deep connection with people.

    I got to this belief based on the following:
    – I have a trapped nerve atm and have a lot of pain. Painkillers don’t work. But what works is, when I’m with people and have meaningful connections. I still have pain but I can take it.

    – I haven’t done much cleaning and I stopped cooking because of this. I observed that when I was with people or am with people I do it again. I somehow can’t force myself to do things anymore. I rather don’t do it.

    I want to try this out with putting connecting/socializing on top of my bucket list.

    Can you relate to this and have tip’s on how to stay connected? Maybe it doesn’t make sense to you, then please challenge it.

    #420164
    beni
    Participant

    Hi Helcat,

    Thanks for your message.

    <blockquote>
    I know that I have felt similarly in the past when I felt a disconnect between what I wanted for my life and what actually was.

    </blockquote>

    Thank’s for this sentence. I’m still reflecting upon it.

    <blockquote>
    It sounds like you’re putting a lot of pressure on yourself.
    </blockquote>

    I’d say it this way. There’s a lot of pressure inside of me. It’s what kept me going. Without nourishing it I’m kinda lost.

    <blockquote>
    I have found that the most important thing to have is patience with yourself because we are often out of control in regards to the timeframe of when things happen. Some things take a lot of time, hard work and are difficult to achieve.

    I find it helpful to focus on one step at a time. There is a saying. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.
    </blockquote>

    Thank’s for the saying I’ll remember it. It’s hard to accept that it takes years rather than months.

    <blockquote>
    It sounds like your first step is planning how to achieve your goal. It’s a good idea to ask for help at this stage if you’re experiencing difficulties with it. There is no shame in it. Though it can feel uncomfortable for independent folks.

    </blockquote>

    I don’t think that’s it. I know what to do. It just hit me. I feel the same at work, I freeze, blackout then I feel helpless. And then I hear: “Beni, what are you doing!”

    #420168
    Helcat
    Participant

    Hi Benedikt

    Thank you for the additional context. I’m sorry to hear that you’re in pain, I hope things get easier with your trapped nerve.

    I totally get where you’re coming from with chores and pain issues.

    It’s something that is really hard to adjust to and it’s important to be patient with yourself while you try to find your own way of balancing things.

    Some interesting things I’ve learned about pain is that it’s linked to sleep, stress, exercise and diet.

    What helped me was learning to prioritise tasks. And how to make some tasks easier for myself. Ultimately, I learned that it’s okay for some chores to wait. The most important things can be handled first.

    It’s good that you’ve identified that you have a strong desire for connection with people. It’s really important to incorporate your favourite things from your pre-pain lifestyle but perhaps in a modified sustainable way.

    Do you think there’s a reason why you make more of an effort to do chores around other people?

    I like chatGPTs advice about a lack of clarity about why you want to do chores. I had to learn to really focus on motivation to do chores with pain issues. Sometimes this was celebrating small wins by taking before and after photos. Sometimes it acknowledging that I was cleaning because I have allergies and it helped me to breathe.

    Hmm how to stay connected? Do you feel like you aren’t spending as much time with people because of your health issues? Do you find it harder to leave the house? Are people less willing to visit you? What are the challenges there?

    #420191
    Tee
    Participant

    Hi Benedikt,

    you are very welcome.  I am sorry you have a trapped nerve and it’s making it difficult for you to cook, clean, do the gardening etc. That’s completely normal that with the pain you’re in, you can’t do those things.

    But it seems the problem is that you feel uncomfortable to ask anyone for help (I feel guilty if I get help from someone. It’s hard to receive.) Is that the main issue?

    At the same time, you feel the benefits of socializing with people, because that’s when the pain subsides (Painkillers don’t work. But what works is, when I’m with people and have meaningful connections. I still have pain but I can take it.).

    Right know I belief that what I actually want is deep connection with people.

    That’s a good goal to have. How is your social life at the moment? Do you have friends or family who would be able to help, but you’re afraid to ask? Perhaps you believe that people won’t like your “neediness”, and that’s why you freeze when you think of asking for help?

    In order to have a deep connection with people, we need to be willing to show our vulnerability and even “neediness” at times like this, when we are physically impaired. We are not bad for needing help sometimes. Showing vulnerability is what actually helps us connect with people in a deeper way.

    I don’t know if this resonates?

     

    #420195
    beni
    Participant

    Thanks, Hellcat

    [quote quote=420168]I learned that it’s okay for some chores to wait.
    [/quote]

    I’m good at accepting this. The world does not fall apart. I don’t want to cook. I can order food. I can live with more chaos in the house. For shure it feels different inside the house with and without order. The time will come where I want to do it, if I really want to. If I don’t want to there is wrong intention or lack of clarity.

    [quote quote=420168]
    The most important things can be handled first. It’s good that you’ve identified that you have a strong desire for connection with people. It’s really important to incorporate your favourite things from your pre-pain lifestyle but perhaps in a modified sustainable way. Do you think there’s a reason why you make more of an effort to do chores around other people?
    [/quote]

    I naturaly take care of everyone around me. Boundaries and my business, not my business are things I reflect upon a lot. I have to be very careful to only give with harmony to myself.

    I think it’s not about the chores. It’ might be something like:

    I want connection, I need to do something for it to deserve it. Like, I have a Garden where I can invite people too. Actually I just want to invite people. I deep down I know that. It’s like my core motivation is crooked. Actually I just want to be connected. This should go first. For shure I like to be in nature, to create things. To have a clean house.

    A simile might be: He is hungry so he goes and plants potatoes. It’s no joy to do that because actually in your heart you know it will not feed you.

    [quote quote=420168]
    I like chatGPTs advice about a lack of clarity about why you want to do chores. I had to learn to really focus on motivation to do chores with pain issues. Sometimes this was celebrating small wins by taking before and after photos. Sometimes it acknowledging that I was cleaning because I have allergies and it helped me to breathe.
    [/quote]

    It makes me happy to read that you found this ways. I want to try out taking picture before and after. Also I wan’t to be more clear why I’m doing things. Non Violent Communication has beautiful aspects about this. “I want to do it because I…”

    [quote quote=420168]
    Hmm how to stay connected? Do you feel like you aren’t spending as much time with people because of your health issues? Do you find it harder to leave the house? Are people less willing to visit you? What are the challenges there?[/quote]

    The health issue is not so important, it actually makes me spend more time with people because else I can’t take it. I think it’s bigger. It’s more difficult to leave the house than to not leave it. I feel more vulnerable.
    Usually I visit people. I think it really is about that I do not have a strong social web. I tend to have a lot of friends and know a lot of people but no best or close friend. I have some people in mind which can be that and I think I could have the strengh now to make it happen.
    I have the strengh because this conversation helped me realize that actually it’s one of my biggest needs.

    #420196
    beni
    Participant

    Hi Tee,

     

    But it seems the problem is that you feel uncomfortable to ask anyone for help (I feel guilty if I get help from someone. It’s hard to receive.) Is that the main issue?

    Ohh, deep question. The problem is that when I do something I wan’t to do that it doesn’t feel like I want to do it. I don’t think it’s just asking for help in particular. For shure it’s part of it.
    It’s more like, actually I create an event where I can ask somebody for help and that does not feel right. I don’t want to ask for help if it’s not honest.

    That’s a good goal to have. How is your social life at the moment? Do you have friends or family who would be able to help, but you’re afraid to ask? Perhaps you believe that people won’t like your “neediness”, and that’s why you freeze when you think of asking for help?

    I anwered this above:

    Usually I visit people. I think it really is about that I do not have a strong social web. I tend to have a lot of friends and know a lot of people but no best or close friend. I have some people in mind which can be that and I think I could have the strengh now to make it happen.

    Phuu, there is some neediness thing around I don’t see trough it yet. Mhh, once I’m frozen it’s difficult to ask for help. I think when I freeze it’s already late. I don’t know how to deal with the frozen state. I might need somebody who touches my shoulder and tells me everything is alright. You’re save.

     

    In order to have a deep connection with people, we need to be willing to show our vulnerability and even “neediness” at times like this, when we are physically impaired. We are not bad for needing help sometimes. Showing vulnerability is what actually helps us connect with people in a deeper way.

     

    I see, especially the “at times like this” triggers me. I think it’s difficult because if I get rejected it can break my heart.
    I want to talk to the guy’s at work and I want to let them know that when I’m lost I’m actually scared. And that I’m not shure what I need. And I’d like to try that that they touch my shoulder and tell me everything is alright.

     

    I don’t know if this resonates?

    It does.

    #420223
    Tee
    Participant

    Hi Beni,

    It seems to me you’re used to the role of care-taker, taking care of other people’s needs, but you have trouble expressing your own needs, and specially asking for help when you need it:

    I naturaly take care of everyone around me. Boundaries and my business, not my business are things I reflect upon a lot. I have to be very careful to only give with harmony to myself.

    It seems you like to give and give, and it’s sometimes too much and you lose your own harmony?

    You say you want connection with people, but you believe you need to first deserve it:

    I want connection, I need to do something for it to deserve it. Like, I have a Garden where I can invite people too.

    So you believe you need to have a nice garden, i.e. first give something to people, in order to deserve that they visit you, right?

    Actually I just want to invite people. I deep down I know that. It’s like my core motivation is crooked. Actually I just want to be connected. This should go first.

    I create an event where I can ask somebody for help and that does not feel right. I don’t want to ask for help if it’s not honest.

    I see – you feel dishonest if you first give something (e.g. organize a garden party) in order to receive. You would like to receive love and attention, without having to do something for people first, right? You would like to receive without “bribing” them, so to speak?

    Could it be that you had a similar dynamic in your childhood, where you were a care-taker for your parent(s) and siblings? And you’ve learned to believe that you are only worthy if you first give to others?

    especially the “at times like this” triggers me. I think it’s difficult because if I get rejected it can break my heart.

    Maybe you believe that you’re not worthy if you are sick and needy. You might fear that if you show your neediness (i.e. express your needs), you’ll be rejected.

    Once I’m frozen it’s difficult to ask for help. I think when I freeze it’s already late. I don’t know how to deal with the frozen state. I might need somebody who touches my shoulder and tells me everything is alright. You’re save.

    I want to talk to the guy’s at work and I want to let them know that when I’m lost. I’m actually scared. And that I’m not shure what I need. And I’d like to try that that they touch my shoulder and tell me everything is alright.

    It’s good that you’ve realized that you need someone to reassure you that you’re safe and that everything will be fine. I believe it would be best if you could work with a therapist to provide that safe haven for you, where you can freely express your feelings and even your neediness, without needing to impress anyone.

    I would rather work with a safe person, like a therapist, than with your work colleagues, because they might not understand what you need. I would only express that level of vulnerability if those colleagues are super safe and would be able to provide that non-judgmental, loving support.

    Or if you have a good friend (you say you don’t have a close friend, but there are a few people in your circle with whom you could get closer). So I suggest to open up only to safe people, rather than to someone who might not be able to offer that level of understanding and support.

    I’ll be happy to talk to you and further unpack this, if you find it helpful.

     

    #420284
    beni
    Participant

    Hi Peter,

    Thank’s for the introduction to taoism. I needed to chew on this for a while. I feels peacefull when I  look on beeing and doing as one state. This is the place I want to be. More then less I am doing or beeing. Maybe this is why doing often feels wrong.

    I talked about this with a friend and she told met that instead of thinking what she wants to do she writes down how she would like to feel.
    It does not work doing it with imagination what I do or thinking what I want to do and find good reasons for it.
    I want to find practices which keep me out of my head.

    I was acutally on a similar point last year. I then switched to a labor job to be better able to stay out of my head. I realize now, that there is an opportunity.

    I have two ideas for now. I can test if I’m able to work with feelings rather than thoughts.
    Maybe with this insight praying or chanting can work for me.

    Are there other practices which I do not have on my radar yet?

    with love,
    Beni

    #420286
    Roberta
    Participant

    Dear Beni

    Have you tried the Lovingkindness practice? There are loads on youtube both talks & guided meditations.

    There are so many different versions i am pretty sure that you will find a couple that will resonate with you especially if you start with the ones that focus on self loving kindness.

    wishing you all the best with finding your joy

    #420287
    beni
    Participant

    Hi Tee,
    I feel alot when I answer you.

    It seems to me you’re used to the role of care-taker, taking care of other people’s needs, but you have trouble expressing your own needs, and specially asking for help when you need it:

    yes, and when I do it I often do it like a child. I say, I want this, I want that.

    So you believe you need to have a nice garden, i.e. first give something to people, in order to deserve that they visit you, right?

    yes, it’s easier when I have a reason.

    I see – you feel dishonest if you first give something (e.g. organize a garden party) in order to receive. You would like to receive love and attention, without having to do something for people first, right? You would like to receive without “bribing” them, so to speak?

    Yes, I just want to be accepted. I’m when I think of it even afraid of that when I give selfless/love that it might be received that way.

    Could it be that you had a similar dynamic in your childhood, where you were a care-taker for your parent(s) and siblings? And you’ve learned to believe that you are only worthy if you first give to others?

    I think my mom does have a similar pattern. I still do not trust her (do not open up) and make shure to keep her on distance. When there’s I problem I call my dad.

    I’m actually working on finding a therapis/mentor. I was thinking of it for one year and finally it started changing. Yes it’s kinda risky doing it at work. It might work dough as the guy’s seem to take me as I am.

    Thanks for beeing part of my process Tee <3

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