October 20, 2013 at 8:10 am #44034
Probably i was not being very clear. So far, may be you dont know but you have shown great strength. For some people sweet,inspirational words work, they draw strength from them.. but for some people what works is building ones own strength from inside through ones own actions,im one of them..so, i was trying to tell you a way on what you can do next. some people have an aggressive approach to life, and they probably would get into regretful situations later.I find you very reasonable and wise, dont succumb to the impulsive/aggressive thoughts from outside..nobody has got to tell you to throw him out of your life..its between both of you and you got to decide.because some where you really had some meaningful times thats why you got married.there is hardships written in every creatures life here on earth by god.all im saying is dont feel weak.you shud get strong,stay calm and assertive.and when i talked abt forgiving him i say tht it doesnt make you victim again,you will feel strong and you can be the only decider with no doubts then. im not asking you to forgive or anything, was wanting to say that you talk to him again n again and get a feel of wat your heart feels or wants .ill give u one example, there was a puppy found on streets,its hind legs were paralyzed…every body said its over,its pretty bad and even if there is a surgery done it will not be normal again so lets euthanize it,i sed without even trying to do anything for it to live normally no one has the right to end its life.finally one person took the puppy along and the surgery was done and everything was normal again. in this story im focusing on only one thing, thats the last chance. its very easy to cut off ,lot of people will tell u the easy way out but one can say its over only after one has made enough efforts to keep something alive. and most people dont want to put any efforts, they can only talk,why do u want to be like that.dont expect him to correct himself or ask for help, he has not even realized that he not doing it right..You care about the person right..so you guide him…take him to a psychologist yourself if u want to. what im implying is that be a doer not just a thinker. im a doer so i can give only this advice,i wanted to give you different possibilities so that you can choose what u wud be comfortable with,thinking that u wud be broken and have no confidence to think calmly. im sorry if i have sed any hurtful things..i just only want your betterment..as woman,i understand and feel for you ,so.
thanks.October 20, 2013 at 8:35 am #44037
That is a lovely story about a puppy Jaishree. Of course, a dog it is a beautiful creature, even if it has been damaged. Animals are innocent and it is our job to take care of them, as they cannot do that for themselves. We always want to help a person, or any living thing in need.
In relationships though, sometimes, when you have given a person the benefit of the doubt, many times, and they still persist in using unskillful and hurtful forms of behavior – you have to eventually, regrettably, detatch and let go. If you have tried to work things through, and it is just a bad fit, and you are not aligned, then sometimes you have to walk away, as sad as it may be. It is definitely good to try, but also to know when to walk away.
Clearly this poor man has issues, and hopefully he will get help, but sometimes in a relationship we can bring the horse to the water, but we cannot force it to drink ! We cannot force another human being to see what we might see. We cannot bring a grown man to a psychiatrist on a leash ! He may refuse, or say he needs no help. In such cases, a struggle of wills, and endurance test of sorts, may just be too much to bear for the other person, and perhaps then we must wish them well, in the kindest manner, and let them go on their own journey of self – discovery. We cannot do that journey for them.
Whatever decision you make Sonja, you will know the right path, and we all wish you well in your journey
Barbs. xxOctober 20, 2013 at 9:53 am #44041
Jaishree – Your post is so helpful. I see what you are saying with people that make hasty decisions, probably from their ego’s and then have to live to regret their haste. I have gone back and forth with my situations a number of times. I guess I do not realize that I am showing strength. I cry so very often I still feel an incredible loss. I have disturbed sleep still, I wake up and always wish I am dreaming. I wish he did not go “so far” it seems so impossible to fix now. And you said something very powerful you mentioned “EFFORT” and that with effort things are possible. I do not see any “effort” on his side. He is so passive and acts only on the 11th hour. Even now I don’t know if he takes this separation very “seriously”. For me if my partner left and separated from me I would want to dig deep to find out what I did, how I can change etc. He is continuing on a destructive path of hanging around with single people and just living day to day.
You said it nicely I can’t stop thinking of the “beautiful times” and how many hopes and dreams we shared together. How we wanted to grow old together and have children. We have a lot in common too. Both love travelling, spending time together, watching documentaries, him helping me cook (he was my sous chef in the kitchen)… Oh boy I’m tearing up now. But Jaishree he always had this underlying need to party and excessively drink. Almost like he has a split personality? There is this one beautiful side that is so loving and then this opposite devilish side that loves sins. And when I am not around the devilish side rears its ugly head. When he goes out with guys he goes crazy and acts like a swinging single. Last year he got himself into such deep trouble on a bachelor party. I never wanted him to go in the first place but once he has his mind set on something I can’t stop him or he feels “restricted” and “resentful”. I am not his mother I’m his wife so I told him if he wants to go it is his decision but it makes me uncomfortable and he said “watch me I’ll be so proper on the trip you’ll see for yourself”. He promised also not to drink on the trip to Vegas because he has a problem with “control” as you can see and it causes me so much stress and anxiety because I love and care for him so much. And yes of course he came back home with a broken knee and said he was drugged. I had to take him to the hospital I became so stressed out I can’t even describe. After everything settled down he could never see what he did as a “big deal” but because of my stress said he won’t go to Vegas anymore. His words are never binding, his promises always fall through. But they are so believing… Maybe he himself believes them but then can’t control himself when the opportunity presents itself.
This part you wrote really sticks with me….”im not asking you to forgive or anything, was wanting to say that you talk to him again n again and get a feel of wat your heart feels or wants”…. Jaishree I’m stuck? My heart still loves him even with everything that has happened but my logical side says “NO” so I guess I feel a battle inside me. When I met him last time to sort through some finances I was in tears the entire time. I guess my soul is still connected and I can’t break that no matter how much logic I use? I am so scared to throw away my life, I am so fearful of this person and the manipulation and lies. I myself am very honest, I don’t do any type of drugs, I don’t like heavy partying. I don’t fit in with the immaturity a big side of him likes. I don’t know what to do. I also am not able to completely say goodbye to him either. I appreciate your advice. No you haven’t said anything hurtful you are offering another opinion and I value that. I am here to “listen” and like you said make a “choice” myself. The part I am worried about is throughout the relationship/marriage I have been the one to make appointments to doctors etc for him and he goes because I tell him to. But then he never continues he just stops. I know what you are trying to say is that he doesn’t know what to do. You are absolutely right he doesn’t know. He doesn’t have anyone to guide him either. His family is not helpful at all. His former bestfriend is not happy with his life choices (what he has done to me) so they don’t really speak too much. He hangs out with the worst company. He is so weak and easily goes on the “wrong path”. It is so hard for me to keep taking care of him and watching him make poor choices. It actually makes me physically sick with stress. That is why I am reluctantly unplugging myself. I have been trying to focus on building my health back up.October 20, 2013 at 10:17 am #44042
Barb – I am happy you shared your situation with me, I read your former post as well to get more background. I do a lot of reading so maybe I can help you? Reading and researching is a coping mechanism for me, when I don’t understand I always want to know why things happen. With my own situation I’ve even busted out psychology text books to understand why he acts the way he does. A lot stems from childhood. What is your (husband/bf’s – not sure if you’re married) childhood and relationship with his parents like? Was he able to “get away” with bad behaviour growing up? For me my husband’s parents are enablers. He never has had to face consequences growing up, he got to make “decisions” even as a teenager because his father is very passive, so he is used to his way or the highway. As a child he grow up being emotionally neglected, so he has some type of need for love that can never be satisfied. He is used to acting like a child and throwing tantrums as an adult. His family will have a big fight and then pretend nothing happened in an hour. So his way of solving problems became similar. He hasn’t had any real relationships prior to me being in his life, he had volatile relationships with girlfriends. All of this has impacted the person he is today! Me personally I’ve had to grow up with consequences, I have respect for my parents etc. In a sense I think if you “put up” with his behaviour then you are in essence being an “enabler” too and he knows he doesn’t have consequences for his actions. I know it is easily said then done. I read Matthew Hussey (relationship advisors quote on men) there are 2 types of men mr. bachelor and mr relationship. Google this to read more about it…. Apparently it doesn’t ever change. I’m not sure what my overall thoughts are on this theory.
What I am personally struggling with is mothering my man for the rest of my life. Is my life purpose to mother someone? I want to have children one day and when I bring them into this world I want to have somewhat of an equal partner (the father) be able to participate in giving this child the best possible life. I don’t want my child to be a product of the same dysfunction that my husband had growing up. How can I achieve this if I have to mother my child(ren) + him? This thought is what keeps me “moving forward into the unknown”. I am also trying to have faith in the universe and god that what is right will occur. If by leaving my husband he changes 180 into a beautiful version of himself and really wants to be with me and values me…then perhaps I will reach a crossroads where I will have to forgive him. But this hasn’t happened yet. I always cling onto a small hope in my heart that it magically happens like a fairytale. I don’t believe in multiple relationships and people aren’t disposable to me. I only wanted to marry once. But what can I do?
I am so sorry to read about what you are facing. Do you personally do drugs? I don’t know how you deal with the weed each night. I am terrified of drugs and I cannot deal with my partner engaging in that behaviour. I am sad to read that men don’t seem to grow up. I’m assuming he is 36 as well? And still engages in this type of early 20s behaviour? I don’t think your Catholic upbringing is the reason you can’t take this reckless behaviour. I’m not Catholic and I personally can’t either. I think perhaps our relationships might be that of “Karmic Relationships” not “Soulmates”. Try to google this if it interests you. Only after you leave the karmic relationship can you open the doors to a soulmate relationship. And you are not too old – 36 isn’t too old! I know how you feel I’m 31 almost 32 and feel scared out of my skin of re-entering the single world. But they say that things can happen quickly. You could meet a beautiful man in less than a year, but only if you close this chapter off. Argh – it isn’t easy. I’m here for you if that helps?October 21, 2013 at 11:37 pm #44144
The psychology part you said makes a lot of sense to me. Surprisingly now i realized that i have a close friend with whom i share a similar relation. We really are close friends but he is so insensitive towards me. im starved,no friend will be like this,i shout at him, fight, but i give up changing him coz i dono why but im happy wenever i get to talk to him(not really,only he talks and i listen only)but still we are good friends and he is a sweetheart,very innocent and for him im his only close frend and for me i dono,i just want him to be there,for me to feel everything is alright…its a strange relationship coz there is no balance,but still its very strong. So i feel even if u leave your husband and move on,he wont be able to leave you,he is dependent on you emotionally or something,he might be having a feeling like everything is ok when u are around. i feel he might not move on,and i feel with the kind of personality he has he wont be able to find somebody else,or nothing that can match wat you have given him,so he will be always wanting to be back with u. if you let go now,his immature mind might get a beating..he might start to realize what he had and how secure he had felt then..but it will be slow. he might calm down with more aging. just some thought i got on the basis of my frendship. you are a very strong person,concentrate on you career and try to move away,and see how he reacts, until u are with him he will feel everything is alright/safe and might never realize how he is losing things. correct me if im thinking off the track abt the whole thing.October 23, 2013 at 9:38 am #44238
Dear Jaishree – I have to share with you what has happened since your msg to me. Yesterday he sent me SO many emails pouring his heart out. Suddenly he seems to have such a “shift”. He is not able to leave me all of a sudden?! He has been crying at work (and he is a professional so this must be hard to do from work with the type of job he has). Imagine a grown man in a suit crying?! I think he is waking up now. How is this possible? What happened all of a sudden.
What you wrote is right “if I let go now his immature mind might get a beating”. “Nothing can match what he had with me” – all of this is now being said by him?! So strange literally you write this message to me and then Oct 21-22 I get messages pouring in from him.
Thank you for saying I am strong. I am I guess but then my love for him doesn’t go away. I just keep praying to god and the Universe to help me and guide me to what is best.
Do people really change? Is it truly possible? Or is he desperate? I am the type of person that believes in the power of change and love but I must do what is right for my overall future. I guess I have to let time pass? I know that this year “2013” is not a good year for me so I don’t want to make any really drastic changes.
I don’t think you are off track Jaishree. You are the only person (other than Abhinand) that has offered a different perspective. …..
My heart is hurting 🙁October 23, 2013 at 10:01 am #44245
Wow, sounds like he has had an awakening, and maybe he realizes what he could loose now – you !
It’s confusing and hard, but I guess you will see with time – give it time, and don’t feel like you have to rush a big decision, talk to him, communicate and listen to each other, but in the mean time, while you are soul searching and deciding what to do – try to look after and nourish yourself, so that no matter what – you will keep that strength up, and you will be in a good position yourself, whatever happens.
Maybe he sees your strength in your pulling away and detaching from the chaos, and that you are able to do things by yourself. This may make him see that he could be left without you. Perhaps he took for granted that you would stick around, and he might see that you stood up for yourself.
Stay strong, and like Jaishree said, – you have lots of strength indeed, and you are right – love can conquer a lot, and maybe love can find a way here !
Good luck, and keep us posted 🙂
Barbs xx.October 23, 2013 at 10:17 am #44246
Oh and I forgot to say – your message above is spot on.
My partner is exactly the same as yours in background – quite amazing !
He was adopted, into a family in a bad area (It hurts me to know this, as if he was born somewhere else maybe he wouldnt have these types of friends, the drugs etc – and as he is mixed race I often wonder , if they were’nt as strict on where they placed him, which is appaling )
His new adopted family fell apart by the time he was 5 – his father beat his mother, and behaved like a pig, and she divorced him – leaving her to rear 3 children on her own , in a bad area, with no help. She worked hard to put food on the table – and in the meantime they had too much freedom, time at home, out and about, to do what they liked. He had time to roam, and to discover the bad habits, going into teenage years. She was as strict as she could, but not at all enough for a willfull teenager, with no Dad to tell him his boundaries. He left school at 16 – became a chef – making big money, and spending on what he liked.
I often wish to go back and change it – what would he be like now if they put him somewhere else ? Sometimes I cry and get so sad at the thought of a little boy, going from one poor woman, who wanted to keep him but couldnt – into a situation just as bad if not worse. It makes me quite sick that the authorities let it happen. As if they had any sense they would not have placed a child into this area anyway. It angers me at what he might have been – college, more choices of career, proper schooling.
But some may call me arrogant – how dare I argue with destiny ? Oh. I don’t know !
What I do know is he now has these habits that I struggle with – and no I don’t do drugs (did experiment in early 20’s but found they werent the way I wanted to go) Lots of people do, but lots dont. His argument is -” I dont have kids, Im just having fun, I like it, Im not hurting anyone” – and to each one I have a counter argument – the obvious ones.
Like you – decisions ! Im going back to my therapist who I see once in a while (after the trust issues form last relationships, and my family issues etc ) And I really want to be able to come to a conclusion. I phoned her and she said it is best to make these decisions when we are calm, never angry. I want to get to the point where I say either ”ok im willing to take the risk, or no, the risk is too high – I have to go ” – but I want to be firmly taking a stance one way or the other.
Hopefully we will get there soon as we are meant to 🙂
Sending blessings Sonja, to you, and Namaste xxOctober 23, 2013 at 10:34 am #44249
Sending love your way. It feels so wonderful to connect with you beautiful ladies. I have tried to do some meditation and then try asking myself the same questions. I find I am more calm and reacting less on emotions. So hard to do when you have been hurt so much (I still struggle with this). I try prayer too (to the universe or god or whatever you believe in) to help guide me and also do what is best for him. I guess this is my way of sending him love?
I really want the best to work out for both of us (you and me). Seems that we have so much love for these men huh?
I feel sad when I look at his upbringing. Although his parents are not alcoholic or violent at all, they are extremely passive. So passive I feel that is a form of neglect. So he formed an identity for himself early on in life and felt like he could never rely on his parents. Started formulating ideas which aren’t right. His first real relationship was with a female who was violent, abusive verbally and just all around wrong. She actually went to jail after he met me. He would always call me his angel…. Probably because I am the opposite of his ex. He has never had a proper female figure in his life (other than me). So when he met me he kept “screwing up” never knew how to handle me. But his errors were almost like an innocent stupid child in the beginning. He would reach out to my father for guidance in the beginning and he sort of took him under his wing so to speak….. But then when he interacted with the homewrecker he went so far off the deep end…..
Decisions!!! All we can do is be strong and stand up for what is “right”. If these men are meant to be with us they have to raise their consciousness and change their ways. If not then I know personally I will not be around for him.. Even though it hurts me I will have to love him from afar, perhaps be single forever. I cannot love easily. BUt when I love it is with my entire heart. Do you plan on having children with him if you stay with him? I think at the bare minimum he needs to stop the drugs altogether.
I would love for us 3 (you me and Jaishree) to be able to communicate with each other off this forum. I find Jaishree really offers another perspective 🙂 Love to all of you….October 24, 2013 at 2:35 pm #44313
yes Sonja, I’d like that. How can i send u my email in private though ? Im just a bit wary of posting my email online.
Yes I agree – change is necessary in a big way. But im not sure my partner wants to – in fact he tells me he is not ready to change , which leads me to think of saying ”get lost, I dont need this crap ! ”, but I have not said that yet , at least not seriously, and actually followed through. I have 10 days holidays from work now, in which time I intend to really think, and really say to myself that I have to decide. I think deep down I know I cant accept him, his looser friends, his drugs, his habits, his lies, and his nonsense, but it is love that keeps me here, compassion, in spite of all the anger I feel. Every time I nearly say goodbye, I buckle.
I really have not got time on my side though, so I better hurry up !
I also intend to go out with good friends, and keep my strength up – I know I am stronger from my meditation, and my mindfulness, and from my job that I love. These things all keep me sane ! I know I can do it without him, he is not my life, and I would probably be happier in time, without him. I know I would probably travel more, spend less time worrying, be generally less anxious.
Yep, we have got to stay strong Sonja. Think of how we can get in touch, if u have any good ideas let me know, and Id love to get in touch (am I being paranoid as regards the email thing ?)
xx 🙂October 24, 2013 at 4:13 pm #44328
Totally agree on posting the email online and no your aren’t paranoid. Hmmm I guess I’ll think of how nothing is coming to mind right now.
I’m so happy for you knowing how strong you are and that meditation is helping you and so great that you love your job. A lot of people don’t have jobs they love so that is excellent!
Have a wonderful holiday discovering soul searching! I am sure your higher self will help you and guide you.
Currently I am definitely feeling much stronger but there is this deep ache inside, this pain, this longing. I can’t get that to go away. I know I’ll be okay alone but I can’t shut off the burning deep within my heart. I guess he needs to go on his journey and “figure himself out” and if we are meant to be then somehow that will happen? I don’t know what to say. I feel sad because there is this deep soul connection that doesn’t die, no matter what….
sending you love!October 24, 2013 at 5:59 pm #44333Abbi WinchesterParticipant
first i would like to say that i am so sorry to hear about your situation. Please remember that life is full of obstacles that we must all overcome. Love is an emotion that is as delicate as a feather. I understand the emotions and the feeling that you maybe going though, but you must now doubt who you really are. Even though things did not work out in this relationship may not work out, it is just a new beginning in life. You are a wonderful person and this will take time to heal but not to worry. Being optimistic is the key and do not let the demons bring you down. Everyday there will be a new experience and one day you will find the perfect path for yourself. The past must be forgotten, the future is unknown and today is a gift that is why we call it the present. So please enjoy your gift and do not dwell on the past and what could have been. Think of what will be.October 24, 2013 at 6:30 pm #44335
Thank you for taking the time to write this beautiful message to me. I will try to keep remembering to let the past go, you are right! I hold on to the pain from what has happened. I can’t change the fact that it did happen and that part hurts me deeply. I am slowly finding out each day who I really am and what it is that I deserve. I will say that one lesson I’ve already learnt is “patience”. I don’t think I had a lot of it before this ordeal and now I have had to learn it. Big ticket price to pay for that lesson though 🙂 I value family SO MUCH so this hurts deeply for me….
I do hope that he is able to transform and that we have the opportunity in this life to meet again. But that isn’t in my hands… I’m not able to let go of him – he is deep within me. No matter how much I meditate… He is still etched in my heart.
Who knows what beautiful gift may come out of this situation, with or without him. I am putting all my effort into a small business I am opening. A dream of mine for the past 3 years.October 27, 2013 at 6:54 am #44404
Hi sonja, what kind of business you are opening?
Hi barbara, what do you do?October 28, 2013 at 12:37 pm #44461
Never mind I got fooled again… I thought there was a “shift” in him that he was “changing” his ways because he himself had pointed out what he is doing that is “wrong” and had proactively emailed me letting me know the realization that he had stumbled upon. He even said that he is hanging around with bad company that influences him to do the wrong things. I bought into all of this last week, I believed in the power of change. Stupid me. It might of been a temporary feeling that he had for a few days, a few days he decided not to go out clubbing and partying that he missed me and reached a few realizations. But it didn’t last…..
Turns out he picked up another girl and got her phone number on the weekend. I had to speak to him today to sort out finances and yet again he manipulated me giving me some cock and bull story that made no sense. Then turned the entire thing on me saying “I make things up in my head”. I’m an intelligent, loyal and kind woman. I do not make up stories in my head! I can’t believe after doing all the things he has done and then begging to be with me he has the audacity to say I make things up in my head…..
Going forward no matter WHAT he emails me with, no matter how believing the story and promises of change…. I will remember that they are mere words. His actions constantly show otherwise. That when he goes out and drinks he forgets me. He will always pick up some womans number and then text her to feel good about himself. He thinks there is nothing wrong with this…. I deserve to be treated better and I will be…. 5 years ends up like this. Yes it does I guess, that is how the story goes. I just asked him out of some respect in his heart for me while we are sorting out and tying up loose ends that he stop messaging other women and picking them up and he tells me I make up stories. I have full access to the phone records which he knows about 🙁 So how can I make stories up when I go off of the facts that I see? He told me I must be seeing things wrong lol….I guess he is so used to lying to my face that it has become second nature he feels zero remorse. The sad thing is I’ve told him he can do whatever he wants just stop trying to be with me at the sametime. Message and pick up women but help by doing his part to end this marriage. He tells me I am again “making up stories in my head” that he really wants to be with me and I’m making everything into the biggest deal ever. I have had to listen to this standard statement be told to me for years, that I make everything a big deal. PIcking up women when you are married isn’t a big deal? Pretending you are single isn’t a big deal?
I hope that karma teaches this man a lesson and that someone does this to him. When I once asked him how would he feel if he was on the receiving end of this he said to me “I hope that never happens”….. WOW… What a thing to say….
I don’t have it in me to treat him the same way I’m not that type of person. I’m the complete opposite of manipulative. But I hope someone is able to do this to him so he knows what it feels like when you treat someone so poorly…..
So hurt yet again….