Home→Forums→Spirituality→İf anyone says spirituality is…
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anita.
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October 6, 2025 at 6:27 am #450594
Thomas168
ParticipantHey James123
If your realization of truth came with a lot of suffering then where is your I? Is it dead? Life is all action and effort. Without it there is nothing but misery. Make no action to better your life and nothing comes of it. Make no action to fix your heart and you are dead. The absolute exist without any effort, yes. But entering the absolute takes effort, action. You can not cross the river without taking action.
Of course, this is like polishing a roof tile into a mirror. One can not make something into what it is not. The absolute exist. You exist. You can not turn a stone into a mirror. You can kill a blade of grass but you cannot bring life back to what is dead.
There are two types of control. One which is micro management. Constantly trying to make everything into what it is not. Then there is the control of letting things go. You decide which is right for you.
I do not argue with the truth you have spoken. It is true on some level. However, this forum is not a place for such platitudes of your suffering will end with the death of your I. That should be left to those with the desire to reach such plateaus. Here, people are looking for a safe space to vent their lives and feel alive again. To find misery loves company and that they are not alone. So, I ask that you bring your wisdom down to those who need the help. To those who need an ear to listen. And a heart to help.
With respect and high regards,
Tom168
October 6, 2025 at 9:09 am #450598James123
ParticipantHi Thomas,
Yes, definitely life is all about action. Yet, the body acts or you? Breathing happens, liver functions, mind thinks, hearts beats, do you have any control whatsoever? You can say, I will go to grocery. But, are you even completely know that how you move your hands or feet?
Thoughts arises and falls. I is actually not dead or born, it is actually not there anymore. Such as, going to grocery shop. Thoughts arises about going yet there is no one behind it, as birth and death.
Such as, every moment thoughts arises and so called ego, claims that it is my thought. Yet, one simply observes, there is no one behind the thoughts. Therefore, the birth and death are just words, to communicate, not actual action, you do. It is bodies function. The one who gives meaning and belief on thoughts are ego itself.
At final, egolesness is the best service for humanity. When body is own, it is already one with moment.
Ego is the creator of past and future, yet body is always present.
It might help someone.
Much love.
October 6, 2025 at 9:23 am #450599Thomas168
ParticipantI do not control the body’s functions. Much like I do not control the way the world spins on it axis or the way the wind blows or the oceans waves fall. But, If I do not make myself get up and go to the store then it will not happen. And yes, it is the Ego which gives meaning to these functions. Without it, it would be no more than plants withering in the sun. Life is more than absolute truth.
October 6, 2025 at 10:05 am #450601James123
ParticipantThe body’s dance with the environment is what love and the moment truly are.
When there is no meaning, there would be no more plants. That’s how sneaky the ego is; it imagines that if there are no beliefs, we are just a plant (which is another meaning in itself).
Life already has its full meaning and is absolutely perfect. No one needs to add to it or eliminate anything.
In timelessness, there is only one life. Just enjoy even the experience of being human. Even these conversations are pure beauty.
I wish to add one more thing. If my speaking is “from the top,” as you said, all one has to do is tie the camel and fully trust in God or Allah. He is the one who created us, not our own efforts at birth. Or, as you said regarding the woman who lost a child: even if there had been only a small problem in the body, such as a gynecological disease, that child would never have been born. Therefore, we always claim to own things that we have never owned, including our body, and that is why we suffer.
Completely putting absolute trust is inevitable, and that’s what faith or Tawakkul is.and that’s what real religion is, not being Muslim or christian etc… just giving all / completely surrendering.
I am not important, just a physical organism.
Much love.
October 6, 2025 at 12:24 pm #450615Roberta
ParticipantHi
I hear you both & it sounds like conventional truth versus ultimate truth is being discussed. Both are valid & have their uses I guess the trick is knowing how & when to use them.
Regards
Roberta [conventional]
Little Mis no-one [ultimate]October 6, 2025 at 1:51 pm #450619Thomas168
ParticipantHey Roberta,
Nice to see you here. Have very much enjoyed some of your posts.
James is preaching and declares it isn’t preaching because it is about the absolute.
Well, the ears that hears these truths are on the conventional level.
And even Jesus said to teach according to the ability of those to learn.
Can’t be spouting that suffering will end when the I dies.
That holds no meaning to those who are suffering.
They have been abused and lost who they are.
They actually need to find themselves first to begin healing
They need to be recognized and heard.
To learn that they are not alone and there is help.Okay, I am preaching too. The only difference is the compassion I feel.
For I lack the wisdom to completely understand the truth.October 6, 2025 at 5:20 pm #450622anita
ParticipantHello Everyone:
What an interesting conversation!
“They have been abused and lost who they are. They actually need to find themselves first to begin healing. They need to be recognized and heard. To learn that they are not alone and there is help.” (Thomas, 10/6)-
I agree. You said it perfectly, says I 🙂
“And even Jesus said to teach according to the ability of those to learn.”- I need to implement this truth every day.
“Okay, I am preaching too. The only difference is the compassion I feel. For I lack the wisdom to completely understand the truth.”- I like your humility, compassion and your wisdom, thank you, Thomas!
James, you wrote in your original post (9/25): “Spirituality is the complete death of the self,”- When I read this 11 days ago, it hit me as an extreme thought.. too extreme to be true, because truth is often complex, nuanced, not something so black and white.
I mean, a partial death of the self, perhaps (removing distorted thinking, for one)?
🤍🌿 Anita
October 6, 2025 at 7:48 pm #450630Thomas168
ParticipantThis is only a conversation. Not a debate on who is right or wrong. There is no blame or hatred. Just an urge to bring a second viewpoint. I am sorry if my words bring the wrong notions. I think James123 bring valid points for someone who has crossed the river or who has entered the stream. However, for those of us who have not seen the truth of our nature. We reside with other tools to help us along this path.
Spirituality is the complete death of the self. We sit in meditation to not identify with thoughts. Not that thoughts are the evil that resides in us. It is to separate us from this world created by this mind. And when one can live outside of this mind, maybe one can see the real world. The absolute. It should not take the complete death of the self to realize this truth. One should not need to destroy oneself to be open to the truth of our nature. It should compliment one’s life not destroy it. The whole is more than the sum of its parts.
October 6, 2025 at 8:19 pm #450631anita
Participant“One should not need to destroy oneself to be open to the truth of our nature. It should compliment one’s life not destroy it.”-
Wow, Thomas.. I am humbly speechless.
Anita
October 6, 2025 at 9:32 pm #450634James123
ParticipantDear people,
I am sorry, but evil is us or ego, not outside.
As Rumi said, “If you haven’t seen the devil, look at yourself.”
When you trust God completely, you disappear — and He alone remains. That trust in God i speak of is the same as resting in the Self.
I wish to add one more thing: Heaven and Hell – The secret of religion – First and last life:
People speak of heaven and hell as if they exist somewhere after death. The Bible says: “The kingdom of God is within you” (Luke 17:21), and yet people look outside, to clouds, to graves, to somewhere beyond. The Qur’an says: “He will burn in hell who dies with arrogance and ego in his heart” (4:37, 21:98). And still, religions present heaven and hell as distant, as afterlife. Because the mind refuses to take truth seriously while alive.
This is the secret of religion: heaven and hell are promised after death to awaken you, to scare you, to inspire surrender. The mind is lazy, the ego clings to power, to importance, to illusions. So religion says, “Do this now, or burn later; be good, or be rewarded later.” But listen carefully: there is no afterlife. Only now exists. Only this life exists.
If you die with ego, the Qur’an says you burn, not because God punishes you, not because someone outside is angry, but because ego itself cannot survive the fire of reality. Ego is combustible, fragile, illusory. At the moment of physical death, the body and mind fall away, and ego meets the ultimate truth: it is nothing. It combusts, it vanishes. You burn only because of you, your clinging, your separateness. God is not the executioner; God is silent, ever-present, always free.
Heaven and hell are states of consciousness, not places somewhere else. Anger, greed, fear, control, statues, that is hell. Love, awareness, surrender, that is heaven. Both are happening now.
Look at your body. Look at your hands, your eyes, your lungs, your heartbeat. Once nothing, now a miracle. From nothing, you are alive, aware, conscious. Do you see it?
Every breath is heaven. Every fear is hell. Heaven and hell are words, stories, warnings, not geography. Life itself is the teacher, and every moment is the lesson.
The Bible points to the same secret: “What you have done to the least of these, you have done to me” (Matthew 25:40). Look inward: what you do, how you love, how you hate, heaven and hell are here, not after death. The Qur’an says: “We are closer to you than your jugular vein” (50:16). The Self, the Being, is closer than thought, closer than ego. Yet you run, you hope, you plan, you fear.
Drop the ego. Drop fear. Drop the illusion of importance. Dance! Laugh! Play! Life is happening through you, not by you. From nothing, you arose. From nothing, a hand, a heart, a mind, what a miracle. And yet you worry about afterlife? No! The first and the last life is now.
Burn in awareness while alive. Love while alive. The real fire is within, the real paradise is within. Heaven and hell are stories told for awakening. The moment you drop ego, heaven is here, hell vanishes, and the miracle of Being shines.
Silence. Laughter. Freedom. This is life. This is the first. This is the last.
Best Regards,
October 6, 2025 at 10:40 pm #450637silvery blue
ParticipantI really wish people would be respectful of others and their understanding and level of spirituality. Actually, that’s the biggest indicator of someone who isn’t guided by ego. 🙏
October 6, 2025 at 11:59 pm #450638Alessa
ParticipantHi Everyone
I have a perspective if it is okay to share?
Perhaps if we don’t understand something it would be beneficial to ask questions? React with curiosity instead of fear? Or we can just say oh well it is something that I don’t understand right now, that happens sometimes in life. 🤷♀️
This place is not just for trauma, it is also for seekers. It is called TinyBudda.
Bear in mind that James is on his own thread. He is not going around on other people’s threads saying these ideas. They are only for the people interested in actively seeking them out. If they are not your cup of tea no one has to read them.
We think of emotions as if they are linked to the mind. But I noticed recently that they are a function of the body.
Historically, people have searched for threat because we needed to protect ourselves from predators. Like animals we needed to run or fight. The body has functions that help us to do this helping us to run faster, react more quickly or fight harder when we are in danger.
For people who have sensitive nervous system, say because of trauma stress can easily kick that mechanism into action. We think during these times planning for an emergency worst case scenario. It is what the body demands. But often there is no threat anymore. With C-PTSD, mostly just memories.
There are lots ways to calm the nervous system when stress triggers it. Breathing exercises. Singing. Walking. Shaking your body. Cold water. Stretching, massaging the head, neck and feet. Managing our basic needs helps us to regulate.
❤️
October 7, 2025 at 12:00 am #450639Alessa
Participant*Buddha
October 7, 2025 at 3:47 am #450641Thomas168
ParticipantAlessha,
Yes, you are right. James123 is in his own thread. And I may have over stepped. I apologize. However, as I said this is a conversation
Conversations have opinions and sometimes they clash. I don’t say James is wrong. But, it doesn’t reach his intended audience. Maybe monks who have spent half their adult life seeking the truth would better absorb this preaching. IDK. I just get a stick up my butt when a person starts preaching without considering their audience. Still, I am sorry for expressing my opinions here. If the mods could delete my posts then I would appreciate it.Tom168
October 7, 2025 at 4:32 am #450643Alessa
ParticipantHi Tommy
You haven’t done anything wrong. There is nothing wrong with sharing your feelings. ❤️
James doesn’t seem hurt by it?
There is truth in all perspectives. ❤️
James will be James, Tommy will be Tommy. All are welcome here. You are both loved and appreciated. ❤️
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