Dear Tee:

* I am adding this comment after hours of typing this message. There’s a lot here. I would understand, of course, if it’s too long or too much. I don’t expect you to attend to everything that I share, or to use too much of your time and energy. I am grateful for any time you invest in communicating with me and trying to help me. *

It occurred to me, as I was reading your post right above, that it feels like I am in a therapy session (where you are my therapist), first time I feel this way in my over ten years of participation in the forums, and it’s a good feeling. (Last time I had a therapy session was on Aug 2013).

I think that this post will be very long because I would like to squeeze as much therapy as I can get from your post right above. I hope it’s okay with you.. I think it is.

First, before getting to the computer this morning, thoughts crossed my mind: maybe the opening of my last post to you (“Hi Dear Tee”) would annoy you. Maybe it was disrespectful because your opening was “Hi Anita” and adding the “Dear” was wrong of me. When I read the opening of your post, I felt a relief.

As I went on reading about “the protector” (a new term for me, one that you introduced to me yesterday)-

.. Just as I typed the above, I got worried, thinking: * “Tee may have introduced the term in posts to other members and I failed to notice.. Tee will get angry that you missed this term.. * I then deleted the “one that you introduced to me..”, covering my tracks (Then retyped it)

Back to earlier, when I got to the “protector part”, I didn’t understand and thought that I might disagree with what you were saying. Here’s the thought that occurred to me then: * “Just tell Tee that you agree with her on this point, so that she won’t get angry” *

Processing the above: I never knew what would make my mother (I’d like to refer to her as M) angry at me. It could be anything, I had no way of knowing. Could be a word I said, a word I didn’t say, an expression on my face, could be a thought she said I had which I didn’t have. She’d tell me what I was thinking (theme: thoughts about hurting her feelings) and when I tried to assure her that I wasn’t thinking that, she’d passionately argue that I was planning to hurt her feelings.. weeks or months in advance.. and no way to convince her otherwise.

And every time I was thinking wrong (so she said), saying wrong, not saying right, etc., there was hell to pay: long, elaborate sessions of shaming (the most painful), guilt-tripping and at least some of the times, hitting. She’d stop only when she was physically exhausted, not before.

So, yes, hypervigilant, afraid to say-not say- feel-not feel-think.. wrong. I noticed much improvement in this regard in the last year or two. But today, these scared, hypervigilant thoughts occurred because I felt helped by you, I felt a softening.. being on the receiving end of something good.. But being on the receiving end means being afraid of receiving something bad.

But what do I really have to fear with you, Tee..? You won’t hit me (no hand coming out of the computer screen to punch me), and no.. you will not shame me, I am quite sure of it (I typed “quite” because I am not absolutely sure). But.. no, you won’t shame me for being vulnerable here.

M is far, far away. She doesn’t live within you. She is not you. You are not her.

And now, to the second reading of your post:

“.. I remember you said you let her clothe you and bathe you even in your teenage years. And now you say you let her hit you till you were in your early 20s.”- yes, zero, or just about zero agency.

“I’d say I wasn’t that resigned/subdued/helpless physically, however I felt like that emotionally and mentally, because I believed her criticism of me, her view of me (that I was worthless, not good enough, even a creep).”-

I read you sharing this over the years (but not sure if you used the word “creep” before, but some word like that). I am taking a few moments this quiet morning to let this sink in.. how you felt back then, feeling empathy for Tee the .. worthy, good-enough girl.

(I just got worried that what I typed right above will make you uncomfortable.. angry..)

“My attempts to resist her qualifications of me – at least those that I am consciously aware of – only started in my early 30s…There was a certain spite in that voice (“I’ll show you, just you wait!”). I was dreaming of doing something big, becoming very successful – there was a lot of grandeur in that voice. I remember you too said you were dreaming of becoming a world renowned dancer or performer, right?”-

Yes, big time daydreaming, dancer, movie star.. someone otherwise famous all over the world.

“That part of me belonged to my ego, and it tried to compensate for my feelings of worthlessness. So it had to achieve something extraordinary, something that figuratively speaking the entire world would get to see and admire.”- I could have written this.

(I just got worried that you may feel offended that I am not quoting everything you said, such as what comes after “and admire”, fearing that you will feel dismissed that I am not quoting everything.. And then I argued with myself: her words are in her post, it’d be stupid of me to copy everything.)

“Right, you were punished for trying to defend yourself and prove that you didn’t mean anything bad. And so you’ve realized after a while that there is no point in trying to defend yourself, because it will only make things worse. But the anger remained in you. You said you sometimes did give her an angry stare, right? Perhaps that was the only outward expression of anger that you sometimes dared to express?”-

Yes, I gave her angry looks. I was angry a lot of the time and felt guilty about it. About defending myself, it hurt her if I defended myself. I had to be mute (say nothing), expressionless, just nod to what she says, look down at the floor (she liked that).

“To be or not to be?”- not to be was what pleased her.

“Hmm, I don’t think it (the “protector” part) died. Your anger remained in you, as well as your impulse to defend yourself, to prove that you’re not a bad person. But it was suppressed, at least in front of your mother.”-

This is the part I didn’t understand earlier. I’ll be trying to understand now. Yes, the anger remained in me. The “impulse to defend myself”- yes, the impulse was there, not the behavior (not actually defending myself).

To prove to her that I’m not a bad person..? Oh, I remember now.. I think I never shared this (thoughts are developing as I type): No, I didn’t want or try to prove to her that I am not a bad person, or that I am a good person. No. She needed me to be a bad person. She told me so. She said that good people fail in life and bad people are successful in life, and she wanted me to be successful (she daydreamed about being rich.. something she valued more than anything). She encouraged me to not care for people. I decided early on that being bad is the way to.. be a good daughter.

M used to admire bad women on TV (female characters in TV series who used men for their money, women who deceived and cheated for wealth), women like Alexis Carrington Colby (Joan Collins) in Dynasty, the TV series of the 80s, (she was a master manipulator who used charm, seduction, and ruthless tactics to gain power and wealth). M admired wealth more than anything, and all means (or almost all..) justify the end. I wasn’t able to copy Alexis Colby’s ways.. I was too shy, extremely shy.. painfully shy. But I thought I was supposed to.

“Perhaps later, when you moved far away from your mother, this anger got more room to be expressed? Or perhaps therapy was the first time you allowed to express it? You did start consciously expressing your anger – giving it voice – here on the forums, in your own threads. You gave yourself permission to express anger towards your mother, and you said it felt good to do it.”-

I think I expressed anger at her during those 7-step meetings I used to attend in the 90s, like “Codependent Anonymous” and “Adult children of Alcoholics” which was open to adult children of abusive parents, not necessarily alcoholics. Not in the 2011-13 therapy though, not as far as I remember. Here in my threads, particularly- yes, lots of.

“But my impression is that this anger then got stuck – because a part of you (your inner child) still didn’t feel good enough. A part of you still believed your mother, even if another part – your adult self – stopped believing her. As a result, you still had the need to prove that you’re not bad, and you would get angry if you perceived that someone believes you’re bad.”-

“a part of you still believed your mother”- she gave me conflicting messages: * be a bad woman (use men for money, manipulate, deceive them through sex and such)*, and *sex is very shameful*, * be a good daughter, * be a bad person*, * submit to me, manipulate/ dominate others, etc., etc. Too much.

What I am realizing today as a result of this exchange, is that my mother held an admiration for bad people, aggressors. I remember her defending a violent criminal of some sort, don’t remember who, having empathy for that person. She didn’t value or admire good, mild people with good hearts. She valued the luxury that lots of money affords.

“In other words, your angry protector part felt the need to protect you from your mother’s unfair accusations – because a part of you still believed them. At least that’s my impression of what was going on here on the forums, in some of the exchanges. To use your own words, in the past you went “belly up” when faced with abuse (real abuse). And now, you chose to defend yourself – but from the angry protector part – when faced with real or perceived abuse.”-

What comes to my mind at this time is the issue of cognitive clarity. What was going on here, on the forums this summer, is that I felt that my mental clarity (which I worked so hard for, for so long) was under attack, that I was told that I was thinking wrong, understanding wrong, that I was invalidated, misunderstood.. and on purpose.

It wasn’t true. It just felt that way.

I can’t tell you how painful it’s been to be lost in confusion for so long. Anytime I felt my desperately needed clarity was in danger.. it was like a existential threat to me. And when felt threatened, I got hostile.

I will stop here. I feel drained, very tired, teary eyed at the moment.

“And no, it’s not heavy for me at all. I like to talk about and better understand our psychological defenses (both mine and those of other people), and so I’m happy that we can have this conversation. 🙏 I hope it is not heavy for you though? If it is, let me know…”-

Heavy it is, but it’s good for me. I am grateful to you, Tee. 🙏 🤍 🫶

Anita

And again, Tee, I regret the pain I caused you. I never want this to happen again, and it will not. I promise!

Hi Peter

“There’s method to the madness when the wisdom traditions warn us not to judge. The truth is, we’re really not that great at it.”- maybe wisdom traditions would be wiser recommend less judging rather than no judging at all..?

I mean, what I read comes across as Thou Shall Not Judge!

The hyena in me cannot not judge for long, can yours? 🙂

Less judging, judging when it’s helpful to judge makes biological, psychological sense, doesn’t it?

“Living from the heart doesn’t mean escaping life, it means embracing it with open hands. It’s where we notice our judgments and soften them. Where we remain engaged, but no longer entangled. It’s the beginning of the return to presence. And just maybe the seed James planted takes root.”-

-Notice and Soften judgments in Most contexts. It’s about nuance. Nuance is something I am getting better at understanding.

🤍🌿 Anita

Dear James:

I just noticed your recent post.

“Body is not independent. İf there is no water, no air, sun, gravity etc.. It can’t live.”- the body is indeed dependent.

“So actually, everything works all together with perfect harmony.”- I wish everything and everyone was working in perfect harmony. That would be a dream come true!

.. But such a dream would be an attachment to self (“any striving… belief on escaping belongs to attachment to self.”)?

🤍🌿 Anita

Anita,

The reality of water contamination comes to mind. Better not drink contaminated water and get sick. I did, almost died of dysentery as a baby. I survived only for my mind to be contaminated by a different kind of water..

I am sorry that I can not explain this better. But, it really isn’t something words can convey. Rather the experience would better answer your question. Kensho, Satori, Enlightenment or whatever you wish to call it. Realizing the Buddha nature.

In that way, you would understand. Unfortunately, it isn’t something everyone will experience. The experience can be alluded to but never fully understood thru words. I mention something and your mind brings something else up. Would just leave it to be better understood at a later date.

Dear James,

I notice that you seem to be in awe of the body – as a miracle of creation – and believe that our mind (which you equate with the ego) shouldn’t stand in the way of the body’s perfect functioning:

Krishnamurti and I only point out to non attachment to thoughts. Therefore, they disseappears inevitably and becomes a tool for body to function. Such As heart or liver.

Before enlightenment chopping wood and carrying water does by you, and after does by body.

I am not important, just a physical organism.

Yes, definitely life is all about action. Yet, the body acts or you?

The body’s dance with the environment is what love and the moment truly are.

Human body is indeed quite a marvelous thing. But so are animal bodies too. Some animals possess greater strength and speed than a human body, for example. Greater abilities. What animals don’t have though is self-awareness. You said it yourself:

Look at your body. Look at your hands, your eyes, your lungs, your heartbeat. Once nothing, now a miracle. From nothing, you are alive, aware, conscious. Do you see it?

Yes, we humans are aware and conscious. We have the ability to witness our thoughts and feelings. Otherwise we wouldn’t be different than animals. We wouldn’t be a different species. So I don’t agree with the notion that “we’re just a physical organism”.

We are endowed with the ability to think, and we can use it for good or for bad. We can get stuck in the ego, or we can align our thoughts with our true self. We can be in the consciousness of separation, or in the consciousness of oneness with God.

Our thoughts and beliefs can be beneficial, or they can be damaging for us and our body. Because you’re right, stress can cause the body to get sick. So we need to be in the right mindset. Still, it’s a mindset.

The mind is not the enemy, although it can be, and it often is. But you seem to believe that it is always the enemy. And that only the body is what is good about us. Which I think is denying our true nature.

I can imagine why you might have reached that conclusion though (that the mind is bad, while the body is good). You said that in the past you have been trying very hard, trying to control things, and it didn’t serve you well. And it’s understandable that you wanted to let go of control completely. At least, the ego control.

However, I believe that the mind and the ego are not synonyms, because our mind can be aligned with the divine mind and the consciousness of oneness with God.

Dear James,

When you say “there is an animal, and can’t think yet we think”, that’s how human being is corrupt.

None of animals destroy the nature, they just flow with the moment, yet human beings are famous with destruction, because they “think ” they are special. Yet, they are like virus, just multiple and multiple consume the habitant, and when it’s done move to another habitant. That’s what the devil is.

Sure, humans have done terrible things to nature. But to think that humans are like a virus, that humans are evil as a species, that’s in my opinion distorted thinking as well.

When you realize you are not special, body comes into peace. And that’s the only way to save humanity or world.

We’re not special, we’re just different than animals. As an example, a veterinarian doctor can save a hurt or sick animal, but an animal cannot save itself.

Humans can be a great blessing too, not only a virus. It all depends on how we see ourselves: one with, or separate from God and Mother Nature.