Home→Forums→Tough Times→Intrusive and Anxious Thoughts
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June 13, 2024 at 5:11 pm #433824anitaParticipant
Dear Kshitij:
What if you bring your laptop or phone to the session and tell/ message her that she can message you her questions and you’ll message her your answers..? That way you will not need to speak at all.
* I wonder if it’d be less difficult for you to vocally answer her questions if you don’t keep eye-contact with her, if you look away and focus on an object in the room. Also, dim lights may help. (You can let her know that this is your preference, if it is)
anita
June 14, 2024 at 9:50 am #433850anitaParticipantDear Kshitij:
I had some thoughts this morning about the relationship of Anger and Ruminating/ Intrusive Thinking; the role of anger that’s repressed (subconsciously pushed down, without awareness) and suppressed (consciously pushed down, with awareness). I thought of Anger being to Intrusive Thoughts like Fuel to a fire.
And so, I re-read much of what you shared since Feb 18 (almost 4 months ago). Following are quotes from what you shared since April 10, followed by my comments and a practical suggestion. Please read, if you will, this long post when you have the time and do so patiently. (All your words included in the quotes are important. What I boldface are some of the words that show me that your anger exists in the present time):
“I have never heard an appreciation or compliment from my father about my nature, about who I am, apart from studies. Instead from early childhood, I would get to listen to very harsh criticism and ‘sermons’ (if the word conveys what I try to say) on even the most trivial issues. He would use to presume that in any given situation, I would be automatically at fault. It was like he had a problem with everything I did… My father would project his anger towards… my grandfather (to) me… At times it felt that he was not eve considering me as an individual person, and just as a copy of my grandfather… he did have a problem with me not being ‘like’ him, in my thoughts, actions, behavior and other things. One reason he acts differently towards my younger brother is because he probably sees himself in his personality, he finds a similarity…. Since childhood I would use to ruminate over incidents of his unkind treatment, and that happens even now when I think about a past situation, or hypothesize about a future confrontation. It leads me to rage fits at times, although I am usually a calm person. If I remember correctly, back when I was a kid/teenager, there used to be times when I would be filled with rage, despair and frustration and I would cry myself to sleep…
“At times these memories and thoughts lead me to rage fits, where my anger just seems to be like boiling. Even today before writing this post I had one such instance of rumination which led to me getting enraged over him again. I was at home for a few weeks in March-April and I had a few situations with him, so my thoughts have become more frequent since then…
“I am trying to process the childhood trauma, meditation and journaling are helping me in at least keeping my mental peace and not letting my past memories and rage subsume me completely. I am sometimes surprised seeing that a memory which would cause rage to me five years ago has the same sting even today… Sometimes I just end up having violent rage-filled thoughts that ruin my mood and subsequently my day. No matter how many times I have gone over a past memory, it stirs the same emotions every single time…
“I feel emotionally exhausted by having either intrusive or enraged thoughts… I had to bear up with a lot of ‘sermons’ from him, criticisms and disapprovals from other members of my family; I began focusing too much on ‘achieving’ things, in pursuit of ‘showing everyone’ what I could do through my decisions and career. Now I see, this showed up in my workaholism and my desire for external achievements and approvals… I think that is one area where my father’s past behavior definitely impacted me because it had already damaged my self-esteem as a child. It felt comforting to type down all these things…
“Being enraged for a considerable time of the day is indeed exhausting, I was in a loop of enraging memories a few minutes ago as well. It becomes very difficult to not let the emotions take over, it is even interfering with my studies at time. On your reply dated 20th May- the officer certainly did that because they wanted to, it was completely intentional. I could see other applicants getting their files approved with ease, and even after submitting the required clarification multiple times, they just didn’t let my application proceed. The more I tried, the more personal it became for them. I don’t know why they did all that, but it was unjust, it felt cruelly unfair. I agree that there was some unresolved anger because I took that anger on myself. I was frustrated, frustrated to the melting point, and I took that frustration on myself. It felt that I was taking some revenge by hurting myself. I can remember this because during that time, I simply refused self-care or any help, I began developing an apathy towards myself, believing inside that why should I put my efforts when all things have to happen this way. A part of my intrusive thoughts are about self-harming behavior (not physical harm) like discontinuing therapy, cutting off all friendships and relations, refusing proper diet and taking care of my physical health and even giving up my career aspirations and a desire for numbness… It was a point when I began feeling anger towards life itself, because all I could feel was despair, defeat and hopelessness, I felt so much for pity for myself for having to face all this. I would like to know more about solving this unresolved anger... It’s been pointed out to me by some of my closest people that I do have a habit of self-loathing“.
My comments (all quotes in this section are taken from the above): your father’s criticism of you was severe, in objective terms. I can tell how severe he was in his criticisms by how severely his criticisms affected you for all the years of your life so far. What fueled his severe, very harsh criticisms has been his rage (intense anger) at his father, rage that he projected into you. You did nothing to deserve his rage. You were the victim. He victimized you.
As a child, you naturally felt hurt and angry about how terribly wrong his behavior was. You naturally ruminated about the severe criticisms and rumination prolonged your anger, back then, as a child, and since then: “Since childhood I would use to ruminate over incidents of his unkind treatment, and that happens even now.. It leads me to rage fits at times, although I am usually a calm person“- I suppose you are usually a cam person not because of absent anger, but because of repressed anger.
“At times these memories and thoughts lead me to rage fits, where my anger just seems to be like boiling“- at times, your repressed anger (hidden below your awareness), and suppressed anger (which you intentionally push down, when you do) rises up to the surface, flooding your awareness with overwhelming rage and other very difficult emotions.
At times, your anger is directed at your father but I don’t think you expressed it to him, overtly. So much valid/ understandable anger not expressed, what happens to it? It’s gets misdirected against the self: “I do have a habit of self-loathing“.
Anger is an energy in motion, it moves, and it has to have the body move with it (moving the body to say something or do something). When the anger is pushed down (not saying anything, not doing anything: no external expression), it keeps moving below the surface, creating internal distress: depression, despair and other very difficult emotional experiences.
A practical suggestion: express the rage safely, in small, controlled portions (so that you don’t get overwhelmed). Perhaps here, in your thread, by typing away angry letters to your father (such that at this point at least, you will not be sending him). Perhaps hitting a pillow at home. Express the anger: let it move from inside of you to the outside, move through your fingers typing a letter to him, and/ or through your hands hitting a pillow.
Through safe, adequate expression (perhaps in talk therapy as well), you will be free from repressed and suppressed anger, and your internal distress, including ruminating and intrusive thinking, will lessen and lessen until gone.
anita
June 17, 2024 at 6:08 pm #433929anitaParticipantI am sorry that you are suffering, Kshitij. I wish I could help. I wish you will get help from someone, someone who understands exactly what you need, and how to go about it.
anita
June 18, 2024 at 5:17 am #433947kshiti1502ParticipantDear Anita,
Thank you for your thread above on repressed anger. Can I take my time to read it? Maybe after 20th when my exams get over?
I don’t know under what context you sent the last message, but thank you for your empathy, Anita. Its not like talking to you hasn’t been helpful, maybe if today I am at least trying to resolve this issue through therapy or other measures, one reason is the support you provided. I am so grateful for your support, which enabled me to voice my feelings. I saw your message when I got up today and coincidentally, I had breakdowns last night, I am feeling that something is not right, something is not okay.
Kshitij
June 18, 2024 at 5:42 am #433948anitaParticipantDear Kshitij:
“I don’t know under what context you sent the last message“- I was afraid that my post about anger (June 14) triggered and upset you (similar to when I sent you quotes), and I felt badly about it, wishing I knew how to be helpful to you instead.
“Thank you for your thread above on repressed anger. Can I take my time to read it? Maybe after 20th when my exams get over?“- of course, and you are welcome. Thank you for being as kind and gracious as you are.
“thank you for your empathy, Anita… “- you are welcome and thank you for your empathy: for caring to let me know that I have been helpful to you.
“I saw your message when I got up today and coincidentally, I had breakdowns last night, I am feeling that something is not right, something is not okay“- that feeling that something is not right is in the core of OCD, and almost anything- if not anything- can trigger this something is not right feeling.
OCD is not really a thinking problem but a feeling problem: it’s not about the content of thoughts but about how we feel about the thoughts. Without OCD, a person can dismiss a thought that one considers weird or illogical, but with OCD, a person gets stuck on the thought, feeling disturbed over it for a long time.
I wish you can find a way to no longer feel distressed about illogical, inconsequential thoughts: just observe the thought and let it pass, not getting caught in and entangled in it.
anita
June 18, 2024 at 7:42 am #433950kshiti1502ParticipantDear Anita,
Your previous post did not trigger me in anyway; please do not worry about it, I am always honest anything that triggers me (like the quotes). Thank you for being so concerned and empathic.
I do not know if it is OCD or depression, or something else; because I feel depressed almost every day. Every day there is something that makes me feel a lesser person, that makes me feel my life is not good right now. I judge myself for having these thoughts, because they are taking away my precious time and energy which I could really use in better places. Sometimes I just feel so weird about life itself, and in those moments I feel very alone.
Kshitij
June 18, 2024 at 7:55 am #433954anitaParticipantDear Kshitij:
You are welcome and thank you for always being honest with me!
“I do not know if it is OCD or depression“- it could very well be both. I was diagnosed with OCD and with Depression at one time.
“Every day there is something that makes me feel a lesser person, that makes me feel my life is not good right now… Sometimes I just feel so weird about life itself, and in those moments I feel very alone.”– you feel very alone, and I know how it feels. But objectively, you are not alone: there are many, many people who feel so very alone. I wonder if there is a support group in Oxford for students who feel very alone.
And you are not a lesser person, Kshitij, I am sure of it, no doubt in my mind!
anita
June 18, 2024 at 1:20 pm #433965kshiti1502ParticipantDear Anita,
I am trying to get peer support here, it didn’t help much in the past though. I was scrolling through some youtube videos and I saw that a lot of people face the same situation as me. It is really not easy to make friends or social groups. Thank you for believing that, Anita. Every night I start thinking which ends up making me feel lesser, or unsuccessful personally and career-wise. That adds on to my intrusive thinking too because then I start to imagine what would have happened to me in that situation, I would have become a complete and total failure.
Also, can you please tell me sites/blogs where I can access audios of Mark G. Williams? There are only limited ones that I could get till now.
Kshitij
June 18, 2024 at 3:28 pm #433971anitaParticipantDear Kshitij:
“can you please tell me sites/blogs where I can access audios of Mark G. Williams?“- my therapist at the time sent me links to audios by Mark Williams. All I did was click the links. I just googled “mark Williams mindfulness” and got what looks like YouTube audios and videos of his meditations and lectures (I am very low tech)
“Every night I start thinking which ends up making me feel lesser, or unsuccessful personally and career-wise. That adds on to my intrusive thinking…“- these are your mental habits. I have mine. It is difficult to change mental habits. Mindfulness guided meditations are a way to slow down these habits and eventually, with practice and patience, change them. It takes wanting to change these habits and doing what it takes.
anita
June 18, 2024 at 4:09 pm #433975kshiti1502ParticipantDear Anita,
Thanks, I will do a google search for that. I am a low tech person too, so can understand.
True, these are like mental habits, and these mental habits make me suffer a lot. I will try to practice mindfulness more deeply in my daily life.
Thanks
Kshitij
June 18, 2024 at 4:18 pm #433976anitaParticipantDear Kshitij:
You are welcome!
“True, these are like mental habits, and these mental habits make me suffer a lot. I will try to practice mindfulness more deeply in my daily life“- like any habit, it takes persistent practice to change and form a new habit. It is far from being easy. I wish it was easy!
anita
June 18, 2024 at 4:30 pm #433977kshiti1502ParticipantDear Anita,
I just observed how anything and everything can trigger my intrusive thoughts. I was listening to a meditation audio where one line Mark Williams said was ‘it’s enough to be here’ and even this line made my anxiety and intrusive thoughts surge.
Kshitij
June 18, 2024 at 4:43 pm #433978anitaParticipantDear Kshitij:
“even this line made my anxiety and intrusive thoughts surge“- I think that an Attitude Change is required: from being scared of and surrendering to the fear-driven intrusive thoughts, going belly up, so to speak, to => => => Courage and standing up for yourself against the intrusive thoughts, as in looking them in the eye, and saying: I am STRONGER than you.
12:43 am where you are at.
anita
June 19, 2024 at 6:40 am #434006kshiti1502ParticipantDear Anita,
I think you are right, I need to stop letting the intrusive thoughts trample over me. But sometimes, like today morning, it becomes completely overpowering. I had a nightmare/intrusive spiral while I was half-sleepy around 6:00 am, and it had some of the most disturbing thoughts I have experienced till now. I have an exam tomorrow but thanks to this nightmare or whatever it was, it took my entire morning. I am feeling better now and back on track.
Kshitij
June 19, 2024 at 7:38 am #434008anitaParticipantDear Kshitij:
You are welcome!
“I had a nightmare/intrusive spiral while I was half-sleepy around 6:00 am, and it had some of the most disturbing thoughts I have experienced till now… I am feeling better now and back on track.“- see, this is proof that intrusive, disturbing thinking- even the most intrusive and disturbing you ever had- is not dangerous: you were not injured, or killed, and you are back on track less than 7 hours after the spiral.
This reminds me of a movie I saw long ago where (I remember very little of it) the main character was terrified of a monster that visited her in dreams. What it took to overcome her fear was to face the monster, look it in the eye, and say: you don’t exist! And the monster (that was never real, as in flesh-and-blood real), defeated, disappeared forevermore.
Like in the movie where the monster intruded on the main character in dreams, intrusive thoughts (also not real, as in flesh-and-blood real) intrude on you in waking hours and when you were half-sleepy this morning. Confront the intrusive thinking, look it in the eye, so to speak, and say: you don’t have the power to harm me!
Really, scientifically, objectively: it’s not the thoughts that is the problem, but the fear of the thoughts. Confronting this fear in regard to my OCD is just what I did many years ago, and that monster in my life disappeared: I am no longer afraid of my thoughts, and I no longer fit the OCD diagnosis
anita
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