Intrusive and Anxious Thoughts

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This topic has 134 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 6 days, 12 hours ago by Nyat.

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June 19, 2024 at 4:45 pm #434027

kshiti1502
Participant

Dear Anita,

It’s 12:45 here, I have an exam tomorrow at 9:30, and here I’m crying and spiralling from the last one hour. It began with scrolling of some chats of that time and led to a full spiral.

Kshitij

June 19, 2024 at 5:32 pm #434028

anita
Participant

Dear Kshiti:

It’s 1:32 am now, 47 minutes after you posted. Are you still awake, how are you feeling now?

anita

June 19, 2024 at 6:20 pm #434029

anita
Participant

Dear Kshitij:

Better that you have a night time routine/ ritual where the same things happen every night, before and as you go to bed: nothing new/ nothing out of the routine, so fewer chances for triggers. I hope you are sleeping restfully right now, Thurs 2:20 am, and that if you wake up before morning, that you are calm, and go back to sleep.

anita

June 21, 2024 at 2:59 pm #434118

kshiti1502
Participant

Dear Anita,

I could not understand the message completely, but it is not only a nighttime ritual. It still happens randomly at different times of the day and it is so difficult that even on crunch situations like next-day exam, my intrusive thoughts add on to my difficulties. It feels unfair that I am not able to experience and enjoy the thing I wished for because of these emotions. It is like a quagmire, all you need to put one foot over it and it will just swallow you in.

Kshitij

June 21, 2024 at 4:22 pm #434122

anita
Participant

Dear Kshitij:

By ritual I meant routine, a bedtime routine, so that you do the same things at bedtime. Similar to suggesting a daytime routine earlier, it’s helpful for anxious people. I have my daily routine.

I wish no quagmires for you, Kshitij, a quagmire-free life, day and night.

anita

June 22, 2024 at 9:01 am #434141

anita
Participant

Dear Kshitij:

“my intrusive thoughts add on to my difficulties… It is like a quagmire, all you need to put one foot over it and it will just swallow you in.“-

* Simplified, cognition = thinking, metacognition = thinking about thinking.

Today, I found out today (after reading a reply on the forums by Rosie) of a term called Cognitive Attentional Syndrome (CAS), and Metacognitive Therapy that goes along with it.
I read on the topic that CAS is an unhelpful style of thinking, a vicious cycle where one’s only focus is on one’s problems and the person feels worse as a consequence (the quagmire you mentioned yesterday). It’s about placing all of one’s attention on problems, overthinking pessimistically, and getting stuck. It’s a pattern of negative, pessimistic thoughts and painful emotions that the person can’t seem to let go of, a pattern that include rumination, worry and fixed attention.
The purpose of Metacognitive Therapy is 1) to discover what the suffering person believes about his/ her thoughts (it’s called Metacognitive Beliefs), 2) to show the person how his / her beliefs lead to unhelpful responses that unintentionally prolong and worsen the suffering, and 3) to provide alternative ways of responding that allow a reduction of the suffering.

What do you think/ feel about the above, Kshitij?

anita



June 22, 2024 at 9:04 am #434142

anita
Participant

Re-submitted:

Dear Kshitij:

“my intrusive thoughts add on to my difficulties… It is like a quagmire, all you need to put one foot over it and it will just swallow you in.“-

* Simplified, cognition = thinking, metacognition = thinking about thinking.

Today, I found out today (after reading a reply on the forums by Rosie) of a term called Cognitive Attentional Syndrome (CAS), and Metacognitive Therapy that goes along with it.

I read on the topic that CAS is an unhelpful style of thinking, a vicious cycle where one’s only focus is on one’s problems and the person feels worse as a consequence (the quagmire you mentioned yesterday). It’s about placing all of one’s attention on problems, overthinking pessimistically, and getting stuck. It’s a pattern of negative, pessimistic thoughts and painful emotions that the person can’t seem to let go of, a pattern that include rumination, worry and fixed attention.

The purpose of Metacognitive Therapy is 1) to discover what the suffering person believes about his/ her thoughts (it’s called Metacognitive Beliefs), 2) to show the person how his / her beliefs lead to unhelpful responses that unintentionally prolong and worsen the suffering, and 3) to provide alternative ways of responding that allow a reduction of the suffering.

What do you think/ feel about the above, Kshitij?

anita

June 23, 2024 at 3:59 pm #434155

kshiti1502
Participant

Dear Anita,

I think CAS is something relatable, I cannot let go of my intrusive and pessimistic thoughts no matter what. I have also begun observing that my mind is somehow habitual of that state, of depression, of rumination and the subsequent hopelessness. I do not know if I have told this before but many times, I start searching things on the internet out of nowhere and read articles etc. which is not for self-help but triggers the vicious cycle of intrusive thoughts. I think my internal beliefs worsen my suffering in many ways. We have already talked about shame, and sometimes I feel that my internal shame binds me from doing things that will improve and enrich my lifestyle.

My intrusive thoughts are causing pessimistic and hopeless thoughts these days. Sometimes, when I am in that vicious cycle, I ask whether life is even worth living if suffering is the ultimate reality? I remember your post about repressed anger, and I agree with it. That repressed anger overwhelms me during the spiral, where I imagine hurting myself emotionally(I think I have shared this in an earlier thread) as well as pushing away all my friends in that anger. I will write another thread about the repressed anger tomorrow and if it is okay, can I also share one thread about my enraging thoughts that were occurring today.

One more question, Anita. There is a recent development in my intrusive thoughts that first happened in the nightmare (mentioned by me a few days ago). I do not think if this forum would be the safest place to mention that, how can I share it with you?

Thanks

Kshitij

June 23, 2024 at 9:37 pm #434162

anita
Participant

Dear Kshitij: I was out all day and now, it’s Sun night here. I will read your recent post and reply Mon morning (my time)

anita

June 24, 2024 at 6:36 am #434169

anita
Participant

Dear Kshitij:

“Repressed anger overwhelms me during the spiral… I will write another thread about the repressed anger tomorrow and if it is okay, can I also share one thread about my enraging thoughts that were occurring today“- yes, of course it’s okay.

“One more question, Anita. There is a recent development in my intrusive thoughts that first happened in the nightmare (mentioned by me a few days ago). I do not think if this forum would be the safest place to mention that“- while not sharing about the recent development here, can you tell me anything about why it’d be unsafe for you? (It’s okay if you don’t).

“how can I share it with you?“- since there is no private messaging option on this website, what are you suggesting?

anita

June 25, 2024 at 7:30 am #434205

kshiti1502
Participant

Dear Anita,
I had a session with my therapist today, she thinks that there might be early signs of depression, although she has told that it is not a surety right now. I think that this fits accurate with what I am feeling and describing

Regarding the question I asked you, is there a medium (email or anything else) through which I share that thing with you. I understand if that is not possible and please feel free to let me know accordingly.

Thanks

Kshitij

June 25, 2024 at 8:23 am #434208

anita
Participant

Dear Kshitij:

You are welcome. Good thing you saw your therapist again.

“Regarding the question I asked you, is there a medium (email or anything else) through which I share that thing with you“- do you feel comfortable to post an email address here for me, on this public forum?

Keep in my mind that sharing these thoughts with me does not mean that the thoughts will go away.

anita

June 25, 2024 at 5:29 pm #434225

kshiti1502
Participant

Dear Anita,

I can post my email address here for you- kshitijjain415@gmail.com

I understand that sharing these thoughts does not mean they will go away but I feel it is important to share them

Kshitij

October 30, 2024 at 10:15 am #439067

anita
Participant

Reactivating your thread because of email difficulties. Here’s yesterday’s email that was rejected:

Dear Kshitij:

“How are you?… How were your doctor’s appointments? Hope everything is better?”– I am fine, thank you for asking. I am yet to have dental work that I am not looking forward to, but a brain scan I had (because of pulsative tinnitus) came back all-normal, no artery blockage or other abnormalities; this made me feel much better.

“I was overwhelmingly busy for the last few days. I organized a conference with my supervisor which was a first of its kind event at Oxford and went on to be a successful event”– C o N g R a T u L a T i O n S !!!

A first of its kind event at Oxford– Very Impressive. I am impressed with you, Kshitij!

“I am very satisfied, but also very tired and drained, and finding it hard to re-adjust to academics and daily mundane work. But I am happy that the efforts I put in this thing for the past 6 months paid off big time“- I am happy for you! You deserve good things happening, good things that in this case, you made happen. I hope you rest and re-adjust.

“Recently I ran behind a bus to catch it at the bus stop, and afterwards while huffing and puffing continuously, I realized this was my first time running for some distance maybe in so many months; and, I did not feel any pain in my lower back (touch wood). Maybe this is also progress“- I am reading optimism in your writing today! I just touched wood for you (here on the other side of the world)!

“Perhaps I have paid a heavy price for this success, the pain and the trauma that has come with it is too much“- may your pain lessen and lessen and may your trauma heals and heals.

“I feel guilty… it also makes me feel guilty, that I am doing so much injustice to myself- by taking my peace of mind away and instead giving so much pain, again and again. That injustice which the scholarship officials were doing was resolved, but the injustice I do everyday, there is no resort from it”–

When you say I am doing so much injustice to myself, who is the I and who is myself? Is the I a punishing parent/ a punishing authority figure, and the myself, a punished child? I need to be nice to myself. I need to promote the peace of mind of myself (not to take it away, and not to be giving myself so much pain). Why is myself being punished?

“very true, agreed. I am not fine now; I am not okay. I am grieving, suffering and hurting, I feel traumatized… I described this to my therapist as if there is a territory in my inner self that has stayed in 2023, and whenever I go inside that territory, (during spiral and intrusive thoughts), it feels like I am still in 2023, I am in a different reality. It’s true that I am kept hostage to that situation“-

– there is unfinished business in that territory/ different reality/ that situation (the scholarship situation of 2023) that needs to be finished. When this business is finished and resolved, your inner self will be set free.

“Guilt has to play a big role in it (but guilt of a different type, something I need to finally admit and confess, I will do that in a different email) along with several other things“- is it the guilt in regard to your best friend, which you shared about just a bit? You are welcome to share more about that guilt and/ or any other.

From personal experience, Guilt robbed me from so much living, throughout decades of life unlived. I was held hostage by Guilt. I wish you will be free of Guilt quicker than it happened for me. Self-forgiveness (where I forgave myself) is what I needed all along, but I wasn’t able. Until I was able.

“Also, I think I haven’t shared this with you- although the frequency of intrusive thought spirals has reduced, almost all spirals these days end up with me ‘imagining’ taking my life or harming myself in some or the other way. I do not have any such intention but I helplessly end up imagining such scenarios in 2023 territory where I am feeling that killing myself is the best thing. Have I shared this analogy with you before?- that it feels like I am giving myself cuts mentally with a knife by such thoughts? it feels strangely comfortable when I do so and think so- as if I get a serotonin/dopamine rush from that. This is not ‘me’, this is not a part of me that I recognize, I was never like this and yet, I do all this, it feels so real“-

– Yes, you did share this analogy before. This paragraph here connects to my point above, about there being unfinished business in the 2023 territory. I think that the ‘imagining’ taking your life/ killing yourself, imagining harming yourself, giving yourself mental cuts using thoughts as knives.. these are all efforts to finish an unfinished business (Guilt, Powerlessness). I think that these imaginings are the quickest ways (1) to (symbolically) punish the Guilty myself, and punished, the myself is temporarily (while killed, harmed and cut) not-guilty, and the serotonin/ dopamine rush is how NOT GUILTY feels like, and (2) to feel powerful, as one who can kill, harm, cut, and the serotonin/ dopamine rush is how BEING POWERFUL feels like.

“Wishing you and your loved ones a Happy Diwali as well!“- thank you, and Happy Diwali back to you and your loved ones!

Diwali, the spiritual victory of light over darkness, of good over evil, of knowledge over ignorance: May your unfinished business be resolved through knowledge (knowing that myself is good, not guilty, and, to an extent, powerful), and through light, so that you can see and believe that myself is a good person who needs to be set free from all self-inflicted pain.

anita

December 12, 2024 at 6:58 am #440314

Nyat
Participant

I was just wondering if you ever found peace of mind. I’m very familiar with the exhaustive toll intrusive thoughts and rumination take and really hope you found a way to cope at the very least, if not ideally get to the point where you quit having them all together.
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