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March 30, 2018 at 2:24 am #200033
DerekParticipantHi Anita,
I hope you are well. I am currently in a wave of anxiety and going through the motions as usual to try and calm it.
Since last week I have been feeling full of doubt (it was a family members birthday who has passed) and I had a difficult conversation with by brother about childhood on Saturday. I am aware that these themes have probably played a role in my current spike.
On Saturday I was quite cruel. We went for dinner and i barely spoke, I guess I was withdrawn because I wanted to see if ‘he could keep a convo because I am bored’. I realise this was mean behaviour and very dysfunctional. Also, telling him I was bored was cruel. I know I learned this cruelty from childhood so must try not to repeat it. I also cried with him on Saturday too, because I felt so horrible. I cried again on Tuesday I believe because I felt so overwhelmed with negative thoughts that I wanted to be close to him but struggled. But I knew I was changing the old pattern by just opening up to him. twice this week I have felt a pang of anxiety when I saw him and immediately thought that thsi was becasue I ‘wasn’t attracted to him.’ Once with him however I have felt calm and secure, and free to cry and explain how I dfeel. He has responded with overwhelming support. For that I felt so in love. Twice in the last week I have openly told him ‘I am very frightened and am not sure if we should just end this’. I am convinced this is me allowing fear to rule me rather than making a conscious decuision to stay in the present moment. I worry that this will hurt him. But he understands. \
Also, this week we are dogsitting for a friends dog. We are both so happy as we love dogs. I cant help but wonder if this is healing an old wouind. My mother surprised me with a puppy when I was 17 (as a boy I had always wanted a dog) and she sold it in front of me two weeks later and told me ‘I couldve stopped her’. Since then I haven’t really dealt with that or really had an interest in dogs but the last year I have started to refind my love for them. I cant help but think that my partner is helping me to redicover the love that i have inside and that all of this is shedding wounds of old and allowing me to progress further. However, with that comes fear and doubt. He struggles to say the name of the dog and i feel that is ‘stupid and how can you forget so easy’. Then realise HEY why be so hard on anyone, who cares, mistakes are ok.
I am struggling to feel ‘in love’ this week, but also think that breaking up is not what’s necessary. Realistically, beneath everything I say here about the relationship is a whole well of dark memories and wounds.
Would love to hear your thoughts.
March 30, 2018 at 4:23 am #200047
AnonymousGuestDear Derek:
Let’s look at cause-and-effect:
1) Cause: conversation with your brother on Saturday.
Effect: spike in anxiety, barely speaking to partner, withdrawn, “mean behavior and very dysfunctional”.
2) Cause: “opening up to (your partner)”
Effect: “felt calm and secure”.
My thought: avoid #1. Do not talk to your brother anymore, or to any individual in our original family that causes your anxiety to spike.
You wrote: “twice this week I have felt a pang of anxiety when I saw him and immediately thought that this was because I ‘wasn’t attracted to him'”- the anxiety was probably about the conversation with our brother, old issues otherwise, having nothing to do with your partner.
I think your brain doesn’t want to deal with the real causes, that feels too difficult, too deeply set, too difficult to change, so the brain latches on to something … easy to change.
Confronting family of origin with old issues and changing relationships with them is very difficult. Breaking up with a partner is.. easy, in comparison.
So your brain goes where it easier to go to.
anita
March 30, 2018 at 4:51 am #200053DerekParticipantThank you Anita.
That helped to see it written like that. It also helped me to understand other problems. I have been feeling low about my appearance and that may also cause a spike in criticsining and questioning his.
I agree about the family, however, would feel sad to never speak to my brother so think I can rethink about HOW to speak with him. Maybe it is better that I tell him that topics as heavy as Saturday are best dealth with with a professional or other friend rather than myself as it is very difficult to understand and help. And listening is tough too.
Thank you for the advice.
March 30, 2018 at 4:56 am #200055AnonymousGuestDear Derek:
You are welcome. If you would like to share: what about the conversation with your brother distressed you so?
You mentioned in your earlier post that your mother got you a dog at 17, then sold it in front of you two weeks later, and later telling you that you could have stopped her from selling the dog. Why did she sell the dog, was she aware that it upset you that she did, and did she respond to your distress by blaming you for her choice to sell the dog (her comment about stopping her)?
anita
March 30, 2018 at 5:44 am #200073DerekParticipantHi Anita,
I didn’t feel distressed as such it was just dificult. He has contact with my mother and was sad that when the family broke apart he has felt like he doesn’t have a family. He feels that we don’t even meet once a year and be in the same room together. i understood but also thought that at least he and i have kept contact and can meet (although it was quite stressful at times when he came to visit). I guess because we have different views. He feels that I can meet with other family members who at times also cause me hurt because I say ‘I just think that the good outweighs the bad and that meeting for dinner is better than severing the relationship altogether’. my goal is to learn to maintain relationships rather than follow family patterns and cut people out.
With my mother, I had wanted a dog as a child. I was never allowed. We did watch my grandfathers dog for 2 weeks once as my Grandfather went away on holiday. That dog was old, and a little sick. He passed away a few years later i think. My grandfather also passed four years ago and it would have been his birthday last week.
I suppose by the age of 17 my needs had changed and i was shocked to see a dog in the kitchen. I was happy naturally. But the same week i had also been for a job interview to work 8 hours a week. this was because I was often told I needed to earn some money for myself because she couldn’t afford to pay for everything. So when I got the job, then she didn’t want me to take it because ‘who would look after the dog’. It was December time as well and my brother was away working and studying abroad. So she threatned for two weeks that she would sell the dog, and I obviously didn’t think that would happen. Plus I had told family, friends, school about the dog. Then one day I was getting ready for work and sat at the top of my stairs as I came down to leave and saw her hand the dog over. I never even got to say goodbye. She turned and looked up at me and said that I couldve stopped her. Then I went to work very distressed.
I should mention that my Mother bought the dog from the same pack as my Aunt. They bought two puppies, one for them, one for us. When I lost contact with my Mother (she came to my work the following summer with a bag and told me never to come back…), so I never did. I was distraught I suppose. traumatic maybe. Anyway my Aunt also told me I couldn’t visit her until I ‘went back home’. So I threw myself into final year of high school and studied as hard as I could to get out. I was awarded top boy of the year and still was disappointed with my results.
About 3 years ago at Christmas my brother and mother went to my Aunt’s house. He sent me a pic of a dog on his lap (it was the other dog I guess because was the same type). I tried to make a joke about how it was a bit silly because ‘doesn’t he remember what happened’ (apparently he wasn’t told about the dog until some time later). He said that he ‘hadn’t thought about it before sending the picture’ then ‘that was years ago I thought you would be over it’.
So now my partner is comuing to collect me and we are going on a hike, with a dog. I guess it makes sense I am overjoyed by having a dog at home (altthough quite nervous). So maybe two worlds have collided, my old broken home and my new home of love built on trust and stability (both of which are still very new to me).
I feel like this is all very personal, should I delete it? I don’t mind i just can’t believe wrote all that without even thinking.
March 30, 2018 at 6:52 am #200075AnonymousGuestDear Derek:
As to your last question, I think that during five minutes or so after submitting a post, you can click “edit” and edit the post any way you want to. Following that window of opportunity, you cannot delete a post within a thread, nor can anyone do it for you, as far as I know. I have seen a whole thread deleted (following a member’s request, I believe).
When your brother told you: “that was years ago I thought you would be over it”- that was criticism on his part, as in saying: you should be over it by now. You should not feel the way you do. I disapprove of how you feel!
Notice other critical comments on his part, blaming you for this or that. This triggers anxiety in the one being blamed. You, that is.
Notice this: your mother mistreated you before rejecting you altogether. Your brother perhaps criticizes you repeatedly. For as long as you remain loyal at heart to family members who mistreat you, you will continue to have the urge to mistreat your partner who does not and did not mistreat you.
It is natural for a child, and a natural inclination when you are an adult, to still reach out and to want to be there for family members who mistreat you, usually feeling responsible for the mistreatment. Resist this inclination because it is you and your partner who are paying the price for this loyalty.
anita
March 30, 2018 at 7:44 am #200041
JasonParticipant“My partner told me that it is ok to make mistakes ‘we are human and if we didn’t we would be machines’.”
Whereas your partners love for you is unconditional, it appears your love is not- and that you would need certain things to happen for you to feel he is worthy and give love back, from bouts of what I have read.
He seems to be providing support and loving as best as you can. He appears to bring out happiness and positive emotions in you. Is this enough and what are you looking for? You have something great, cherish it, you can either be satisfied with what you have and be grateful daily or keep forever looking for better and never appreciating. Communicate. Communicate your needs with each other. People in a healthy relationship help each other grow; whatever type of relationship that may be. It is your choice to take, but be in a relationship to give, not just take and drain. Look past his weaknesses and appreciate what you have or if you feel you cannot do that anymore, move on.
Be happy with the blessing of life and perhaps the blessing of having a partner.
April 7, 2018 at 3:59 am #201171DerekParticipantHi Anita,
Thank you for your last post. I come to you today with a difficult entry.
I am on a weekend break with two friends. One is a girl I know from college, the other is her friend. We have been having a great time. My first day I had painful anxiety and missed my partner dearly. Yesterday I felt overwhelming love for him. Then alcohol was involved.
Ny relationship with alcohol has never been very healthy. I don’t have much self control and often don’t know when to stop. Yesterday we met with a friend of my friends. It is worth noting that both girls have been sexual together before and had a threesome with the best friend of the straight guy we met yesterday. The guy yesterday also has a girlfriend.
Everyone hot got pretty drunk, I felt awkward because I am a few years older and they were here to party. We went back to our flat (the 3 of us) and the very nice guy (also very young, sober I wouldn’t think anything of him in a sexuality fashion). In typical form I put music on and danced. The girl had invited the guy back so they could smoke weed. I took a drag thinking it was a cigarette so gave it back once I realised. Then things got a bit well I don’t know touchy feely. As I lay on the bed the three were harmlessly hugging. They encouraged me to have fun and hug them too. So I did. But, the girls began making out and the guy was excited but I could see he was trying to keep his distance. He looked very nervous and uncomfortable but was clearly aroused. I felt strange. I lay there and thought about my partner and as I was being cuddled by the guy On his right, the girls were on his left and also were extending hands to me etc. I had also noticed we were kind of rubbing feet (with him or a girl Im not sure). It brushed off his crotch area(everyone was clothed fully) and explored his abs, I felt my hand going further towards his Penis.
then something happened. I stopped. I panicked. I didn’t want to touch anyone, only my partner not someone else. Nor do I think this guy wanted me to touch, afterall he is straight. I felt scared. I opened my eyes and like lightening realise “this is not my boyfriend”. So I left. I went to the balcony and I cried. I cried hard. My friend came out and asked why I was crying and if I was ok. I said “I love my partner so much and I feel like I’ve just cheated, and also, I feel like this would be what it would be like without him”. She smiled and laughed and said “Derek everyone is fully dressed and cuddling, ok hands wandered a bit ?75 you left, you’re here because you love him, that’s why you’re not on the bed”.
At at one point I’m not sure before or after I had vomited a lot in the bathroom, too much alcohol I suppose.
So today I am awake, and sightseeing and my mind is racing. The first thing I did was tell my partner briefly that things got weird and I found myself in a difficult situation and am sure I brushed off a penis touched some abs and potentiallly felt some boob. I told him I felt scared and that I feel like I almost fucked it up. He was a it confused and thought it all sounded a bit crazy. His response?
Derek. Calm down. I trust you. You must be more careful with alcohol because you’ll have more anxiety later and struggle to feel better and is not worth it just for being drunk. He told me to enjoy my trip and stop worrying. Disconnect. Enjoy. That he loved me. I told him with overwhelming certainty that I really fucking love him too.
So so now I am panicked. I feel awful both hungover and guilty. The young guy seemed nervous too this morning. Once I had moved he also moved to a different bed and the situation thankfully diffused.
i feel guilty, awful, a horrible person fucking up the one relationship I have that makes me feel whole and loved. That makes me believe I am worthy.
I guess I don’t know what I’m asking for today. Your insight I suppose.
Jason, thank you for your comment too. I am trying to learn to accept my flaws and his and for the first time in life love unconditionally.
April 7, 2018 at 5:31 am #201177AnonymousGuestDear Derek:
I was relieved at the part of your account when you got up and quit that situation.
Your partner’s response to you was perfect. Once again, I am very impressed by your partner and do hope this partnership lasts and lasts, if it was up to me, it would last a lifetime.
My insight regarding what happened is the same as your partner’s: “You must be more careful with alcohol because you’ll have more anxiety later and struggle… and (it) is not worth it”.
If you are to spend more time with any of the friends you mentioned, make sure that they know and respect your position to have no sexual interactions, not as an observant and not as a participant, when in their place or their company. Make sure no alcohol is involved when with any of these friends.
You can decide when it is okay for you to have alcohol again, in what circumstances, with whom, and follow your own rules on alcohol use. You can discuss this with your partner and have his help in figuring it out.
You made a mistake, a few mistakes and corrected. This is your opportunity to face mistakes you made and forgive yourself, best you can. This practice will make it possible for you to forgive your partner for his mistakes. After all, if you are forgiven for this incident you described, your partner should be forgiven for his grammar mistakes, for example.
Forgive yourself and forgive your partner. Aim at being kind to yourself and kind to your partner, both of you are lovely people, both make mistakes, imperfect… and lovely.
anita
April 7, 2018 at 6:35 am #201183DerekParticipantAnita,
This post made me cry with happiness. I feel proud for even with alcohol I could stop a situation escalating, rather than wanting to beat myself down over it.
I think how how I described it here may sounds more catastrophic than it was. Anyone I have spoken to says “I don’t understand how you think you’ve cheated on your partner, nothing happened”. My friends laughed because I was part of a drunken hugging circle, of course you’ll have contact.
My ego is beating me saying I told my partner about it in a light hearted way, but I feel that if I allow my catastrophic nature step in, it could hurt him unnecessarily. He knows I was in an uncomfortable situation drunk and foolish where contact was made. Describing a 3 second interaction in graphic detail may cause unnecessary worry and upset for him.
I forgive myself, and I will always forgive him. I have been so excited just to feel his hand and have him close. I want to feel safe again.
April 7, 2018 at 7:17 am #201195AnonymousGuestDear Derek:
I agree with your reasoning for not describing the interaction in graphic detail to your partner and for describing it otherwise in a light way, not heavy or catastrophic. Good thinking, I say.
Your intent and resolution to forgive yourself and him, that brings a smile to my face as I type this. I like it very much.
anita
April 7, 2018 at 10:41 am #201223DerekParticipantHi Anita,
Thank you once again. I don’t feel judged or scared when I read your messages and do take all points on board.
I have started to feel a bit a bit better since I met with my friends. When they saw I had been crying they asked why and they clarified the situation.
There was no no sexual engagement. Yes people were hugging and naturally that means leaning on each other, but not in a sexual way.
Before the hugging, they stated “nothing strange here as people are in relationships etc so no breaking of commitments”
When I said I feel like I have been unfaithful or I’m not sure my friend laughed and said “Derek you were drunk because at one point I got in between you both because you were both very nervous and uncomfortable to be in our hugging circle.”
So now I know nothing happened I’m trying to let it go. Every couple of minutes I get this dreadful feeling of fear and I’m trying to let it go.
I too want this to last last a lifetime. Even when I read Jason’s comment about “try move past his mistakes, and if you can’t move on” I felt a hot rush of fear because I could not imagine anything worse.
I think im struggling to understand that I make mistakes, like anyone, but love for me has always been so conditional, that having someone love me for who I am frightens me, so sometimes that fear I fall into old patterns, all learned from a long time ago.
I will see my therapist on monday, that should help. I’m also worried if it’s “normal” how much I have missed him whilst away, and how much I have spoken about him. I have called him everyday too and feel so relaxed when I hear him. Of course, my anxiety may kick in before and say “what if you don’t feel enough when he answers”.
Its almost like a dance of anxiety. Rejection and abandonment have made it very difficult to be close to people. So sometimes I look for ways “his flaws maybe” to push him away. Then when I’m away I feel scared, and the build up to being reunited I worry, and find it difficult to reunite, but once I’m there everything goes away and feels so safe.
April 7, 2018 at 12:09 pm #201225AnonymousGuestDear Derek:
You changed the story a bit, stating there was nothings sexual going on. It is not true, reading your previous account. There was something sexual there, between the women, between the straight man and the women, between you and the other man.
The “nothing strange here as people are in relationships etc so not breaking of commitment” is a false statement. True to reality it would be: following this breaking of commitment, there will be no further breaking of commitment, not today.
Part of the fear and distress you experienced is true to what happened, that is, there is a valid reason and purpose to it: to not repeat that situation, to learn from it, and not repeat.
To retroactively deny or minimize what happened is convenient, but not congruent with healing.
A large part of the anxiety and distress you experience is not true to what happened and is about previous issues, of course. That part of the anxiety, once this very incident is forgotten, will find another incident to nest in. It could be anything.
This anxiety is looking for incidents, real or imagined. It will continue to do so. Today there may be such incident and the anxiety will nest in the new incident, the old forgotten.
It is “this dreadful feeling of fear”, this “hot rush of fear” that you are so scared of experiencing again. Already experiencing and fearing it getting worse. I know this dreadful feeling myself. Eventually, if you are to heal, it will be not about how to resolve this or that incident, how to rethink it… it will be about not fearing that dreadful feeling as much, having confidence that you will survive feeling it once again. It will be feeling the beginning of it and not sink into it.
anita
April 7, 2018 at 12:48 pm #201227DerekParticipantHi Anita,
Thank you for your response.
I realise where I may have over exaggerated and where not.
I read back over my messages. The first thing I sent to my partner said “they were intending to have a threesome and as I reached for my phone I made contact” this was at 8:35 am. I went to bed very drunk at 4am. So I hadn’t slept and clearly didn’t think of that message. Later in the day I sent further messages which were more honest etc and clarified everything.
I hust spoke to my friend, the girl. I read her that message. She kindly turned to me and said “I’m not sure what you seem to think has happened. Nobody tried to have a threesome. We explained last night, that in Work we do a thing called cuddle circles to relieve stress. These circles sometimes involve more than 10 people each spooning each other one way for 5 mins, then we all turn to the other way for 5”. I stared blankly. I know that things felt uncomfortable. I know the girls made out which my friend says “was her fault for kissing her best friend.” For example now they are watching a movie together and are cuddling. They are childhood friends so maybe it’s more common for them.
Also, I was sure that something was going on. But when I asked about the Male friend se said “Derek don’t you remember how nervous he was and moved away”.
anyway, my point is is I still feel like I almost crossed a line and risked temptation and walked away. But I am afraid too that I completely over exaggerated a situation. That doesn’t mean that it was entirely innocent as I clearly felt nervous etc. But now I just feel crap because I could’ve just asked this morning, and then could’ve explained a lot better and a lot less exaggerated and hysterical. Now I feel like I blew a situation up, drunkenly lost self control, catastrophised and also probably distressed my partner.
Because “they were intending to have a threesome”
or “they were being drunk and did this bizarre cuddle circle thing that got even more bizarre and could’ve escalated but didn’t”
i dunno I feel like I let anxiety and fear take over. I’m sorrt that you know the feeling. It’s sad. It’s a horrible feeling.
April 7, 2018 at 2:10 pm #201235DerekParticipantA final update.
I spoke to my partner on the phone. Firstly I apologised for causing any overwhelm or unnecessary panic today. I thought about what you said and decided not to play it down because that won’t help. But I also realised that imagining the worst and over panicking is not helping either.
I then apologised for sending a message saying that people were trying to have a threesome. Because that’s wrong. I explained the actual events and explained that my interpretation was that there was potential for it to turn sexual and that the girls made out and that hugging I did feel body parts and I think i did feel temptation and that is what scared me most. I also told him how special he was and that I need to rethink alcohol and be more careful. When we were first speaking I still felt a wave of guilt. Then as I opened up and said everything I relaxed and stopped catastrophising and saw it from a different perspective. I told him, hugging people it’s natural you will feel their bodies but the fear of not remembering how or why and if it was as bad as my fear is making it or not.
Basically, I’m trying to be kind to myself. And to him.
Now I need time to breathe and relax and not beat myself up over anything.
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