You are setting the bar way too high for someone that outwardly says they want to find the love of your life, but inwardly all the signs point to not wanting to give up those alone times.

You mean “I want to find the love of my life, but…”?

I agree that it may feel like that.

But don’t they say (Steve Harvey, for instance, in his Act Like a Lady, Think Like a Man: What Men Really Think About Love, Relationships, Intimacy, and Commitment) that women of today have lowered the bar impossibly low for men? That men need a challenge? I read about it in another book, too.

And when I look back at all of my romances, and especially #3, I can see that all of a sudden I become so enthusiastic about my relationship that I have the man CONSTANTLY on my mind when doing anything, even those activities that normally would captivate me so much that I would forget anything. And I would always find time for them. Maybe even to the detriment of other relationships and activities. Again, I don’t know. It kind of feels like that, but maybe it feels like that because I haven’t yet (after #3) met a man for whom I would fall hard? (“The most recent guy” doesn’t count here – there was no need to make room for him because he never asked for it.)

What type of signal do you think you are giving the men that you run into?

I am trying to be totally neutral and business-like (I meet a lot of men at work). Partially because there a few men to whom I feel an immediate connection and partially because that was the advice given by a guy, and I find that advice very helpful – treat all men as you would treat friends until they explicitly say that they want to be something more than a friend. Turns out that advice saves a lot of heartbreak to somebody who likes to see signs of affection that is often very temporary.

If I do like a man, I wait for him to do something – ask for my number, email, whatever. If he calls, I answer; if he texts, I always reply. If I don’t quite like him, I won’t be replying immediately and will do my best to show how unenthusiastic I am.

But Matt, love (or initial likeness) is indeed in the eye of the beholder. I can name at least four men who were totally unable to see how reluctant I was (or am) to communicate with them! And I wonder if they ever tried to imagine both of us together side by side…

I am not looking for a model, far from it. I felt connection and chemistry for all sorts of men (again, am I a narcissist, like my ex – sure one more feature in common?) But if I don’t feel chemistry, the law of attraction comes into play. And that law says that like attracts like, on the physical level, too.

AS far as cooking, nah no big deal.

SO GLAD to hear, cooking is a big challenge for me. I moved out of my parents’ place in 2006, but still don’t cook.

See yourself doing what with? It all goes back to enjoying life, you might find someone at the shooting range who gives you tips on shooting, absolutely no physical attraction, but you respect their opinion. It would be worth hanging around them at the range interacting. Those are the guys who have friends, and most guys hang out with guys who are similar to themselves. You find the type of guy who has the values/interests that you share and one day Bob from the shooting range brings his friend Mark to the range, and your heart goes all aflutter. That’s how it happens, out of the blue. Does that make sense about why I say that you should still find people to interact and have fun with even though there is nothing physical.

Now I look at relationships totally different, I feel like everyone I meet has something to offer me, something that I can learn. I no longer measure people, they just are, and I have made some amazing acquaintances.  I took a job working with Habitat for Humanity helping volunteers learn how to use the tools, and the various tasks that we had them doing. Through that I met amazing people and had some very engaging conversations about lots of different topics. I think that is what is most important in life, filling your life with people that you find stimulating both physically, mentally, and emotionally. You know my wife stimulates all three of those, but there are other people who may be great conversationalists, or who may be one of those people that needs an ear for all of their problems.

Yes, I see what you mean. Thank you for recollecting and putting down your process of arriving to that place where you are now (and I don’t mean family issues!)

I also see that I forgot to add family’s friends and friends’ friends to that most common meeting place of one’s partner.

I like a few things that guys like (like shooting, fencing, martial arts, etc., have a penchant for the military) and I know that I have trouble finding men that I like in general, so it is one more, additional incentive for me to do all that in my spare time. A similar idea – that I should be exposed to a greater number of men possible in my everyday life – was also taken into account when I applied for my current job.

It was when I was looking for “the one,” I came across #1. #2 happened because I needed someone after #1 (but it was not a rebound since I hardly knew #1 at all and it was mostly in my head). My ex came up totally unexpectedly just as a minor crush after our breakup during my solo trip. The “most recent guy” also started writing to me two times totally unexpectedly. I have had a few unexpected propositions from a few other guys, but since I didn’t feel good in their present (that sickening feeling, “unlove” at first sight), I was unable to continue after one or two get-togethers.

I can’t say that I desperately WANT to be in a relationship right now. It would be nice if… But if I am frank, I’d say that it would be even nicer if “the most recent guy” and I could try it out. But I am still okay. Besides, there are two more guys with whom I could see myself if they did anything (but, of course, they are married and they are happy and I know their wives and I never do anything myself ever). And here is the crucial difference – with most guys, as I wrote before, I feel neutral, pure friendship or sister love, if you want. That is I can hardly imagine being intimate with them, but I know that they would make great partners AND I also know that if any other guy like “most recent guy” or either one of those two came along, I would be smitten and it would be unfair to these “great partners.” That is why most “good guys” (and yes, I know – there are plenty of “good guys” out there) are not an option for me. At the same time, if I imagine myself with one of that top tier (with whom I could fall in love NO MATTER their appearance (one is only 11 years older than me and tall, the other one is bald and short, but both have charisma just like the “most recent guy”)) and then think of another one from the same tier, I know that I would have no problem resisting the temptation even though now those three make up kind of the same group with the “most recent guy” being on the top. Interesting, huh?

I think most of them (the ones whom I interact with at work, the “neutral” ones) feel the same towards me, that is why we sometimes discuss topics of love and relationship, and I have reasons to believe that what they say about me is an honest, undisguised opinion.

However, they hardly ever invite me somewhere to hang out – maybe because most of these guys (but not all) are from my home country and on a business trip here, however long (can be up to half a year) or short, or because they have a girlfriend.

That is why I am mostly on my own as to where to look for a man and be noticed by a man. So I continue to do what I love in my spare time and, of course, there are seemingly nearly endless possibilities at work. Lots of my coworkers married others from my work.

If I try to detach and look at it, I would say I am close to where you seem to have been. That is a) I am not desperate for a relationship, I quite enjoy being by myself, in fact, I think I am closer to nor really care at all; b) I do my best to have as much exposure to men as I possibly can; c) I have finally reached a point where I can live in the present moment and look forward to how any given day is going to unfold.

I am not sure if there is anything else I can do. Or am I missing something?

I am closer to philosophically wonder “What is wrong with me?“ The worst thing is that I try to get an objective look and to find some patterns and common things, but I can’t with the exception of what you pointed out – security that might be there even when I don’t know the marital status and unattainability of ALL of my love interests. On the other hand, I personally know a few couples who started off as affairs, but are still together. I know other couples. I know all sorts of men and women, happy and unhappy, in good relationships and in bad. All that in addition makes the case for my just throwing my arms up and living in the present. The classic “I like those who don’t like me (or can’t like me), and I don’t like those who like me.” Besides, I have NO idea how to approach the unattainability problem.

Finally, I would like to give you some more food for thought about love.

I like the following oriental saying about love very much. It basically says that the attraction of the mind gives birth to respect. A similar attraction of heart gives birth to friendship. The pull on the lower level (the lowest chakra) gives birth to the sexual desire. All the three mean love.

It is fun to play with it. Like, say, I respect one lady, but I am far from being friends with her and there is no sexual desire for sure. I am not sure true friendship can exist without respect, etc.

Matt, I wrote a lot on your original thread, but it didn’t get posted two times. I’ll try again now. Maybe you’ll get three identical posts. If nothing shows up tomorrow, I’ll post again tomorrow.

Really glad that you and your wife are having those conversations. I remember reading a book written by a couple therapist about a couple attending his therapy. They were clear about the problem, still loved each other, but nevertheless decided to part ways. I couldn’t understand it and still can’t, the romantic in me screaming, “But you love each other!!!”

Please keep on going exploring your selves!

X

Matt,

I think the challenge is inherent. There are enough challenges living life and holding a steady relationship is challenging for anyone.

Oh, that reminds me of the talks my ex and I had. He was comparing love and tending to a relationship to a bridge (as in between two people) maintenance; I liked the image of a flower that needs to be watered regularly. Now I don’t even know how to tell a keeper from somebody who is not – it may be starting splendidly, but then it just dies out and while you are getting signs that love is on the wane, you keep convincing yourself that one can’t “be high” all the time… As you know he left our “bridge” and started building a new one with that new woman…

I think I am becoming more and more intolerant towards men (and people in general) who don’t walk the talk, “the most recent guy” including (“Yes, we [WE!!!] need [to go and watch the game]”; “Good topic for a pillow talk”, etc.)

I don’t think you need to lower your standards. You should never settle, but that does not mean that you cannot find all sorts of men interesting, and on the same note not all men you find interesting are going to be worth settling down with.

“…not all men you find interesting are going to be worth settling down with” – that is important to remember. Not sure where I can go from here though…

As for lowering my standards… It is tricky and reminds me of a parable about a woman who goes to a department store to pick up a husband. She is warned that she won’t be able to go back to any previous floor. So on she goes from floor to floor until she reaches the upper one where the sign reads that the sale is over.

I can see that all of a sudden I become so enthusiastic about my relationship that I have the man CONSTANTLY on my mind when doing anything, even those activities that normally would captivate me so much that I would forget anything

This is the phase of a relationship that might be the most fun. It is infatuation/lust whatever. I think there is probably a biological and evolutionary reason for this.

Yes, it is exactly that. Mother Nature wants us to procreate ASAP.

But this is the biggest challenge in a relationship, how do you keep this feeling after so many years. Should a relationship be over once this feeling is gone? Can I rediscover this relationship in my marriage after 7 years? I actually think it is possible, but I am finding out it takes a lot of work.

You might find answers to the following plea for help interesting: https://tinybuddha.com/topic/i-love-him-but-im-suddenly-not-in-love/

Personally, I believe that that infatuation, under normal circumstances, should be morphing into that quiet and steady feeling. Given that when I ran into my #2 (and also with #3, my ex, months after the breakup), I could still tell why it was I had been so attracted to him before, I would say that this is what probably should remain as a reminder of why you fell in love with your spouse in the first place.

I seriously doubt one can live on that “high” and keep experiencing fireworks indefinitely.

 treat all men as you would treat friends until they explicitly say that they want to be something more than a friend.

Devils advocate: Besides saving yourself from heartache, why not be true to those feelings that you might have? If you meet someone who makes things move inside you, what are the risks of addressing those feelings? So you have committed to behaving like this and so far it hasn’t worked, why not try something different. Get out of your comfort level, approach some guy you find attractive and be the initiator.

Well, I did see all the signs that #1 liked me a lot, and I liked him tremendously, so me, being a naïve, romantic 23-year old one, having (finally!) met somebody whom I liked physically and intellectually and on whom I had developed an enormous crush AND (most importantly!) who seemed to like me back, started emailing him. He was eager to respond. Finally, we met (he was my martial arts instructor and away because of a death in the family when I took the initiative and emailed him offering my condolences), and I rushed to hug him exclaiming that I had been waiting for him for 12 years. I don’t know what exactly he felt for me (he told me that very evening that he had a partner, but seemed okay to continue our romance or whatever it was), but later on I read a female view on why a female should wait for the male to make the first step (besides the usual gender role distribution and the fact that the female might be viewed as light-headed and an easy conquest, hence not a valued one). The piece basically read that if a female makes the first step and it turns out (for instance) that the guy has a bad breath, and she is put off, it would be much harder for her to go back on her signs of liking him than if he advances and she merely states that he has misinterpreted her.

Also, with the ”most recent guy”, I figured that everybody likes to know that they are appreciated by somebody, that I might finally learn what it was that was going on between us for four months (or even eight if you count the first bout of correspondence lasting for three or four weeks) and that, if he eventually does divorce and starts looking for somebody, he will have an even better incentive to contact me (we did had that amazing chemistry besides confiding into each other!) if he does go through his list of contacts as men normally do after breakups or when feeling lonely. And I was sure that I would know whether he was still mentally unavailable because of that other woman or his ex-wife (by then), so I was losing nothing. And that was my last email to him on June 6, 2017. I quoted his reply in one of my posts to you.

Oh yes, and before that final email of mine, I tried to drag him out to chat like we used to do in 2015-early 2016. He would reply straight away, but his answers would be short, he would never ask me anything (stark contrast to how our chats had flown before he stopped contacting me two times, in July 2015 and then in February 2016), and it literally felt as if I was pulling his teeth. So I stopped.

In addition, there are not too many men whom I fancy AND who are not married. Right now the number is zero.

Matt, I’d like to go back to my grouping of men in my life. It is from Page 2 of your thread (“Need space to vent…”)

I have recently come up with a classification of men as regards my feelings for them. There are some for whom I feel complete aversion – just like there exists love at first sight, which I haven’t experienced, there exists hate at first sight, which I have. The worst thing here is that they did nothing wrong at all (yet), but I already can’t stand them. Physically.

For brevity sake, I could call this group “-1”.

There are some whom I don’t find pleasant to be around. Again on that basic chemical level. A guy like that tried to date me several months ago. I did what I could, gave him a try, but it turned out that I had been right – no matter how much time I give to a man, if he doesn’t interest me when we first talk, he never will.

“-0.5”

There are some to whom I am completely neutral. Those would be (or are) good male friends. No sexual feelings added, none whatsoever. Proof (at least in my eyes) that friendship between men and women, no matter what they say, is possible.

“0”

Next group consists of two subgroups. One is represented by men with whom I would look great in a family photo (I talked to one male acquaintance of mine, funny enough that was also his criterion for finding a woman attractive), but who don’t really interest me on the physical level and whom I don’t really interest.

Actually, as I think more about these men, to whom I am attracted at first side, but whom I stop finding interesting after a chat or two (and who are not interested in me either – maybe that is why I lose interest? Though I tend to think chemistry always comes first, so it is just the fact that we would look good in that family photo is what attracts me to them in the first place, but it all stops right there), so the more I think about them, the more I am inclined to put them into the -0.5 group. Mainly because after talking to them, all my body is screaming “Not interested! Boring! Get out!!!”

The other one is with whom we might flirt a little bit and with whom, if only they were free and took the matters in their hands, something would definitely happen between us. But I don’t lose sleep because of them (or may be daydreaming for a couple of hours, that is all).

“+0.5”

A separate group is men for whom I feel that basic animal pull, but my mind somehow finds it extremely easy to extinguish that pull. I know they are not right for me from the start and have no problem thinking about something else.

—

The top one would the one with whom I am in love. Emotions running high. Very, very few men and never one-sided. Or one-sided for a very brief amount of time after which I do somehow manage to change focus.

“+1”

 

 

That is I can hardly imagine being intimate with them, but I know that they would make great partners AND I also know that if any other guy like “most recent guy” or either one of those two came along, I would be smitten and it would be unfair to these “great partners.”

So do you think there is a difference between a great partner and someone who lights your fire and you can be smitten with.

Yes, it seems like it. “Great partners” (that is, -0.5 guys) are boring. Can feel that at a mile’s distance. (Which, in conjunction with my propensity for melancholy and depression doesn’t bode well for the relationship.)

And the ones I can be smitten with are either unavailable physically (like those two married guys (+0.5) or the divorced one who is happy on his own, who could very well compete with the “most recent guy” – “+1”, because I could fall in love with him just like that) or mentally (and physically, too).

Now my stunning discovery from last weekend.

You know, I like to think that I am good at projecting myself into a situation, that is how I would feel if I were (if we are talking about relationships) with X, Y, or Z. Well, I played with it and was surprised to feel that if I were with the “most recent guy,” and one of those three came along, I might find myself thinking about him (NOT “most recent guy” – my partner in my “projection”). In fact, I had the same experience with my ex, which was relieving at the time ‘cause I thought that that meant that I was not deadly dependent on him and his feelings for me.

BUT if I imagined myself with one of those three (and it wouldn’t matter which one of the three!), and the “most recent guy” came along, I wouldn’t pay attention to him (!!!).

Now, isn’t that weird? The only explanation that I have is that my ex the “most recent guy” and give me thrills, which is not good long-term and, as Evan Marc Katz says in his blog (I believe I sent you a link to one of his (or some say, it is a company, Evan Marc Katz, not a live person) posts about physical attraction), whereas these three give me a sense of stability and safety and reliability, which makes mу 100% happy with my relationship.

But then I wonder – is it they who give me a sense of stability or, as I thought I should now believe, is it simply me who is more stable, calm, feeling safer, etc. now, hence I find men who mirror me here (are stable, calm, reliable, etc.) more appealing.

But then, again, how do I know that those two married guys and one divorced guy are stable, calm, reliable, etc. – I haven’t interacted enough with them to be able to say that for sure, and marriage facades, as you pointed out, are often just that – facades…

Now, I don’t like the fact that ANY one of the three “would do,” but I don’t know whether I need to uncover this one now. May be not worth it.

There is one more interesting thing that all of my exes had in common, and what seems to be applicable to the “most recent guy.” Now, I don’t know whether this thing in common was in them before they met me (and that is what pulled them to me) or whether they become that once our romance started (me being the reason on the surface and them being unhappy (because otherwise, they wouldn’t notice me if they were spiritually advanced enough to resist temptations (well, #3 may be the exception here, if we talk about resisting temptations, though he did tell me when we were discussing our breakup that he had had temptations when he was with me, but was able to resist them, but with that new woman (the one who married), he failed))… Anyway, that thing in common is what I would call the “oscillation between “the good” and “the bad”. Of course, I am “the good” in their lives (irony intended) and not me is “the bad.” I say that this is what they have in common, because after we break up, and I am no longer in their lives, if I meet them again or look up their pictures several years later (out of sheer curiosity), I can see how unappealing they look, and am nearly certain that I wouldn’t pick them out if we were to start again. (Well, if we were still together, that would be another matter, I would be with them through thick and thin.) It is as if I meet those men when they are at that threshold where one can still see what they looked like younger (I am attracted to the 35-55-year old men for the most part), but can’t yet tell what they are going to look like when old. Well, soon after we break up, they change so much that I can see what they are going to look like when old, and I don’t like that, because their appearance illustrates Coco Chanel’s quote, “…but at fifty you get the face you deserve.”

I see you might be trying to lower your own expectations.

You mean going with “great partners” (-0.5) and not waiting for the one who sweeps me off his feet AND is a great partner (available goes without saying)?

Are you scared of being totally heart broken? It feels like there are all sorts of safety nets around your relationship life.

Matt, I am sorry, but what safety nets are you seeing?

I can see that I almost risked my career and reputation for my ex; made myself seem a totally crazy and obsessed gal to #1, etc.

Or do you mean that I choose these unavailable men exactly because their unavailability IS my safety net? A few articles point this out. That is that women like I are subconsciously boycotting the idea of a happy and loving relationship with a man for some reason and, naturally, choosing unavailable men, with whom they can be in love, busying themselves in this love, suffering, but at the same time knowing that they are safe because these men are unavailable?

But then here we are coming to that question of mine – how come I manage to find an unavailable man attractive EVEN BEFORE I know that he is unavailable? Your answer that it might be the aura of safety and assurance around them that attracts me, may very well be true.

And the aura may be only skin-deep (#3 being the best case in point).

So does that mean that I need to work on feeling safe and secure in my own skin? We have made full circle here, haven’t we? Or am I missing something?

And what is the chicken here and what is the egg? Am I unavailable because I have so many hobbies and interests in my life or I “haven’t met him yet” (as two good male acquaintances put it in answer to what do I do) that is why I have all those hobbies and interests?

Heartbreak is scary as hell, the thought of my wife leaving me and breaking my heart would be the worst thing that could happen. I would be devastated. But I have come to a realization that if my wife chose someone else over me, it would not be the end of the world. It would suck, and hurt, and be awful, but I would hope that I would figure it all out and move on with life.

I am very glad that you are thinking this way. I now think this way, too. Or rather, I am not really concerned now about whether I am going to meet somebody with whom I am happy long-term or not.

But before that, oh well, before that I was convinced that if I do fall in love, if that love is mutual and happy (like it was with my ex), then our life simply MUST be the “happily ever after” and us breaking up is simply not on the agenda. And since – yes! – he was all I wanted in a man (ALL the items on my checklist were checked off except for the marriage status, but I was positive it was only a question of time) AND since I waited that long and finally found him and he did become my first man, that meant that him leaving me would be something so horrible, better not think of it. It simply couldn’t happen.

And if he were, say, to die, then I was completely prepared to mourn him all my life. No less.

“you don’t need to be in relationships with men who are unavailable from the beginning” – again, the same question – how do I know that “from the beginning”? Unless, of course, I know that they have a partner. Or do you mean that I should be blocking all “what ifs” if a man with a partner is pursuing me? That I won’t be missing my chance at fairy-tale romance if I don’t open myself up to a possibility of being happy with the man IF the man has a partner, that no matter what as long as he has a partner, he is off limits? And forget about happy endings that started as adultery?

So here is a question I have with your relationships, even though the men you fell for were already taken, how hard should you fight for someone you love? I don’t really know how to get this thought out of my head. Do you think you loved someone so much that you would fight for them.

Well, I am not really a fighter. I like to think that both lovers need to be committed enough to fight for their “flower,” their love for each other. I don’t think one-sided fighting ever worked (or worked only short-term), no matter what Christian websites claim.

As a side note, I tried my best to give a synopsis of a huge book on breakups and how to recover from them written by a Russian psychologist for whom I have a lot of respect. One of his premises is that somebody who has tried to leave you more than once, will leave you eventually no matter what. You can find the entire thing here: https://tinybuddha.com/topic/some-suggestions-that-might-help-for-people-going-through-breakup-or-divorce/page/2/

I sure hope it is a bit premature for you, but just so you know where to find tried and tested advice.

With #1, the romance was so quick, I had no idea who his partner was, so much believed in that we were bound to be together no matter what, so had no inclination to fight.

Basically, that premise – that if it is meant to be, it will be – led me through all my likings and mild crushes until I met #3.

With #2, well, I despised his wife. There was no way I would be competing with her. Simply beneath me.

With #3, at first, he had talked to her and they seemed to agree to keep up appearances until he got his promotion. So for about six months, there was no need to fight (and I wouldn’t, because we had so much understanding, bliss, honeymoon stage, etc.)

Next, when his wife decided that she couldn’t let him go, I didn’t have to fight, because my ex would always be there for me assuring me that I was the one and only.

I didn’t fight for him when he announced that he was breaking up with me.

However, I did try to fight when I saw him again, just one month after the breakup was announced and four months after he had met his current wife and fell in love with her.

I tried to fight because when we met, he acted so confused and strange. He acted as if he was still under my spell. He was not the same he whom I had known, he was a stranger with my ex’s face, voice, figure, manners, habits; there was something “off.” But he would suggest going out, doing all the things we used to do when we were together “for real”… It was like a full reset of our relationship.

AND was like trying to win a stranger who is your love’s clone.

He was the first one to hug me, to kiss me on the lips. Yet, I couldn’t shake that “off” feeling.

For two weeks it felt as if an enormous ship was slowly changing course in my favour. But then (and I am not particularly proud of it), when feeling that powerful pull towards him, I tried to seduce him into making love with me. He succumbed. Well, it was not a rape, because I wanted it so badly, but it was so mechanical, no tenderness – I guess that how clients have sex with a prostitute. I broke out in tears and we stopped it there. That is how I knew that my ex, the way I knew him, the one who loved me, was gone forever. He even suggested we get back together several times (denied it later, during his next trip here), I said that he needed to go back home, see that other woman and then decide. He said that I was an amazing girl. He called me from the airport as he used to do when we were still a couple, but never called me when he landed. I knew that was it.

He came again a couple of times for work, and we would meet at work as regular colleagues. Nevertheless, I did feel that pull again (I think I told you about it). But that was over a year ago, and I haven’t seen him since. Hope I never will.

His “good-bye” action towards me was unfriending me on all but one social networks in June this year. He, who claimed he admired how cool it was in Scandinavia where all the exes get together for birthdays, confirmations, marriages, etc. unfriended me. Besides, we were (and are still, to an extent) co-workers.

Now, I don’t know whether this was done at the request of his wife (she would keep popping up as my friend suggestion as I am sure I would pop up as hers) – that would be unusual because he wouldn’t unfriend his exes at my request or at the request of his then wife and he only unfriended me, not his other exes.

Even if this is at his wife’s request, this shows that he continues behaving in such a way that she feels threatened in her position as a wife. Even though I let him go at once, never called him or her, didn’t make scenes, etc. And it has been two years now since they married.

I have a tiny hope that he unfriended me because I reminded him of his broken promises and he as a narcissist can’t stand being the one to blame (and he can hardly reproach me anything in my behavior – yes, I called a few times and wrote polite emails asking him to tell me the truth when he went MIA, but it only showed that I cared for him, as my partner of six years).

But mainly I hope that he couldn’t stand the fact that I (as I hope I made him believe) found a very quick consolation in the arms of my “most recent guy”. Back when I thought that something might come out of it with the “most recent guy,” I asked my ex for advice. Since my ex has no problems being in a relationship when married, and a lot of people at work believe that the “most recent guy” is divorced, plus my ex and the “most recent guy” met at an event in another country and the “most recent guy” no more wears his wedding ring, I would very much like to think that my ex couldn’t stand the thought of me not only not sobbing after him (as his ex wife is doing), not creating drama and problems for him, but also being now with a guy who is more successful career-wise, younger and better-looking than my ex.

I would really love to believe it is so. If I am right, this is the best revenge.

Well, it would be even better if the “most recent guy” and I were together for real AND the “most recent guy” were divorced AND mentally available, but it is what it is.

I love my wife, that love is so strong that I would do almost anything to keep that love. But day to day, that Love is up and down….

Matt, I think you should read The Passion Trap. How to Right an Unbalanced Relationship by Dean C. Delis, Ph.D. with Cassandra Phillips. It talks a lot about ups and downs in a relationship, and that story about a couple who were clear about the problem, still loved each other, but nevertheless decided to part ways (the decision made at a counsellor’s office) is from there.

X

Matt,

Thank you again for paying such a thorough attention to all that I have written (no matter how complicated my style and convoluted my sentences)!

I am digesting what you wrote and will be back with comments to your comments, as usual, one of these days.

I would also like to gently remind you about my post from October 20, 2017, 9:44 p.m. on your thread “Need some space to vent…” that would also benefit from your insights. So that we can close all the loops 😉

Hope it is all right with you for our conversation to continue on both threads…

“Talk” to you soon,

X