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Re-starting with my Ex

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  • This topic has 96 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 6 years ago by Anonymous.
Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 97 total)
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  • #234749
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Ben:

    Your relationship with your mother has a long history, and so is your relationship with your father, and the two are connected. Then there is the relationship between the tw0 of them which you witnessed and heard about… complicated. So let’s keep it simple and focus on just one issue, for now:

    You wrote, “I tell myself shouting at him (your father) isn’t the solution. But I notice I’m frustrated all the time and shout at other people… innocent people on the bus for example… well, not shouting, aloud.. I get angry and call them names in my head. But this is exhausting”-

    this means you are angry at your father and have been angry for a long time. Anger has a purpose in nature, to motivate an animal to fight so to protect itself from another animal who  poses a threat. Once the one threatened, maybe already partly hurt, succeeds in fighting or aggressively scaring the threatening animal away, the one angry loses the anger and peace returns.

    You are still angry because the threat is still in your life, the person who hurt you and is still hurting you from time to time is still a threat. So you are.. still angry.

    Which brings me back to my suggestion to have no contact with him, to not have him in your life.

    – we communicated quite a bit today, probably should take a break and let things settle. Maybe start again tomorrow, what do you think?

    anita

    #234925
    Ben
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    Indeed, I took a break and was thinking over the things we had talked about yesterday.

    My problem now, again, is controlling my emotions as you said. Those 2 days after I got back from the trip were me as I should be, connected etc. But now I think anxiety is back. Im remembering a lot better my old therapy from school, when we would constantly identify the feeligns, and she would always challenge them, “Do you have to feel anxious”… “Do you really think that”….

    But well, no contact with him. I can see that, I can see a more powerful future where I am… an adult, living my life. You know, a part of me enjoys (self sabotaging) the fact that I rely on my parents too much financially. Being that character from a book who wanders around waiting to cash cheques from their parents… But, this is a fantasy, I realise as im typing this. It isnt really my life. I want indepedence. That silly fantasy is tying me constantly to my parents. Its also I think an attempt to connect with my father. He always, nearly always, spoiled me with presents, really obviously to make up for his lack of presence.

    When I was younger etc, buying lots of christmas presents. Mum would cook something I didn~t like and hed cook me something different, not all the time but it happened. I think now, this reliance on his money, is a repeat of this. I even worry selfishly about my parents finances (my dad, clearly, has terrible spending habits), when will it run out? I need that money!… My own life and finances are sort of irrelevant… I remember at university, with hte student loan, I was more independent, I managed my money better, planned my spending. But… the masters was totally paid for by my parents… in a way, humiliating on some level, and emasculating.

    Perhaps this is where my new-found anger comes from? Or what triggered the very long running anger to resurface again? Indeed, perhaps to survive, I had to constnatly negate or ignore the anger that my financial reliance on my parents was causing, creating this conflict within myself. I think I deny my anger towards my father in hope of this very unlikely reconciliation…

    #234927
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Ben:

    The desire for a parent’s love is so very intense. For a child, nothing feels better than the feeling of being loved, wanted. When your father cooked for you, especially for your liking, that meant so much to you. When he gave you presents, that meant so much to you. No better feeling. So you want to keep this feeling going by allowing more presents, money. It means too much for you to receive from him what he will give you. Of course you don’t want to reject love.

    I am not referring to your mother at this point although she is part of your experience, focusing on your father for simplicity purposes: do you feel this way now, that as a child (and still) there is nothing you wanted more, nothing that felt better than feeling that your father loves you?

    anita

    #234933
    Ben
    Participant

    Yeah, its true. I always wanted his attention, perhaps more reservedly than with mum. Mum I always wanted affection, hugs, etc plus the usual showing her what I had done, drawings etc. With dad I didnt want hugs… indeed I think quite early I felt uneasy around him in that respect and actually I still dont feel “safe” etc hugging my father like when I hug my mum or my bf.

    Dad… hmmm I think my brother coems into view here. My brother is nine years older. I always remember how my brother had a good relationship with dad, they would joke about cars etc, manly behaviour (not that my brother is super macho or whatever), my brother did rowing, as my father did, my brother did boxing too. I always felt like I had nothing to offer, that I needed to grow into that relationship with my father but it never materialised. I never thought of having “my own” relationshiup with my father… indeed even defining it as such, this is the first time that thought ever crossed my mind.

    I think there was a little conflict when dad started to push for more masculine kind of behaviour… I remember once he was coaching the rowing team and I was a kid riding on the bike, he said I could shout support to the team… I was embarrased and kind of cried, even though he had encouraged me and that was the behaviour he wanted to me express.. I was only 6 or 7…

    #234935
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Ben:

    He wanted you to shout support for the rowing team when you were six or seven. Shouting would have been masculine. Did you try to shout?

    I wonder if you tried to act masculine so to be accepted by him?

    anita

    #234939
    Ben
    Participant

    I think so, it was a very weird time, I remember. I was so scared to be masculine. I did shout, but I was crying… I tried to act masculine, yes, and it scared me… like I was being swallowed by something?

    #234947
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Ben:

    Earlier you wrote about your experience during the trip: “rather than it all being an amazing experience of both highs and lows, instead, there’s some sort of rule book I’m breaking”- I think it is your father’s rule book. “I only know what I’ve done wrong and seemingly never do anything right”- according to his rule book. And it is his rule book that is “clouding my relationship I think, importantly clouding my relationship of myself”

    He used to day derisory comments, used to express his disapproval of you with veiled comments (“He doesn’t say derisory comments anymore. Or express his disapproval with veiled comments”).

    “I yearn to open up and to understand him and him to Understand mem but when this happens sometimes I feel disgusted afterwards”- because what he understands about you is that you are disgusting. So you feel disgusted with yourself.

    “I was effeminate- stop acting like that, be a boy… you should do a sport, like football.. I was never recognized as a man by him, just as a sort of.. idk.. mistake… ‘you’ll end up in my school if you keep acting like that’… ‘why are you going to Brazil? Because you’re gay? Because you like men?”

    “I knew he didn’t like my behavior. That was a lot of shame… those shaming pathways that are so strong… That’s why I was incapable of feeling happy or fulfilled or enjoying anything… I couldn’t go and commit to him, or anything for that matter…. I lived in shame and didn’t enjoy my life… I still resent myself for being effeminate… I don’t feel like I am qualified to recognize myself as the man I am. I don’t have any grounds to call myself a man, a person, a force in the world”-

    This is because the ground was taken from under you. Your father took the ground away from underneath you by shaming you. And your mother abandoned you anew at the nursery, you had no one to hold on to for safety. So you fell into shame.

    You live in shame as your father is still shaming you via remote control, that is, his past shaming of you has been well recorded in your brain and his voice, shaming you, placing that rule book in your face and condemning you for breaking those rules, that condemnation, that shaming is still happening.

    It is a terrible thing to be shamed. Shame is a terrible experience. I know it. I was shamed too.

    anita

     

     

    #234949
    Ben
    Participant

    This is very true… its shame. When my father challenged me or spoke to me about going to BRazil the first time, mum was there… but she said nothing. She knew I was upset, but she said “I thought you needed to see how your father is”… she liked it I think because it vindicated her negative feelings to him, but regardless, she abandoned me. I was alone. I curled up into a ball when he said that. I was alone… afterwards, interestingly, dad said to my mother “give him a hug” – what a weird thing to say, but telling.

    I dont know to get over this… I have spent a long time away from home, nearly 2 years now. But, not consistently. Last year I was home 4 times, for 2 months in the middle of hte year even. And, this whole 10 months in Brazil ive had the same pathways going over again and again. Perhaps this is how I should be using therapy… why do I need to feel like this… why does it matter what he says etc? I need to ask myself the right questions…

    I can see solutions but Ive lost hte motivation to work at them. I can tell myself today, im just feeling ashamed, im just feeling anxious, but its not working, I fall back into this vacuum…. Indeed, today, back to the relaitonship, i~m needy again, constantly wanting to talk to my ex, ive forgotten my self-care, being myself, experiencing life like ive described in a few previous posts. Im just pre-occupied with him again. I can leave it alone. Anxiety? The dynamics we’ve been talking about? For sure… but, im sat here blaming him again.

    Noticing actually, Im getting angry at him for the sort of reasons im actually angry at my father for…. how dare you abandon me… when he hasnt, he just hasnt talked to me all day everyday. I keep thinking about it, the relationship, I should leave it, that will be my magic moment of freedom… but I know id end it, feeling the same about my bf and still unsatisfied.  It would be an impulse to break up… Short term release… of frustration? Id be venting it on him… “youve made me so anxious and annoyed by not talking to me! take that!”… but, if I think of a relationship I want, its fine because I have my space.

    Who do I really want to get rid of? Is it dad? Am I projecting? I remember a long time ago actually my other therapist (a bad one who I enver got on with), in one of the few good sessions, I came out almost crying at all the resentment and frustration I had pushed onto my bf (When we were together before). I apologised to him for treating him like my dad… 3 years later and im back to where I was… but, Im saying this, but not believeing it. Im not admitting to myself that the frustration is as such.

     

    • This reply was modified 6 years ago by Ben.
    #234953
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Ben:

    Your mother used you as her support against your father over the years. Too bad.

    As you can see,  insight is not enough to produce a better feeling. It is only the beginning. Plus you had insight before communicating with me. Now what?

    There is a process of healing that is available to you. It requires enormous amount of patience. It will not yield quick results, but over the next few weeks, if you persist, you will already experience a reliable progress, that is, not just a temporary feeling better, but an ongoing increase of insight and feeling better.

    Insight does not stop here. But the insight I am talking about is not a dry intellectual insight. The more you progress in healing, the more you feel. The more you feel, the more you know.

    You already feel, of course. But too much to use for learning. It takes time and persistence, lots of patience, to … sort of organize the tangled feelings.

    In my personal  life, I believe that I was shamed no less than you have. I can teach you what I learned and keep learning. Learning is healing.

    anita

    #234957
    Ben
    Participant

    Indeed Anita,

    I realised this over our conversation of hte past few days, and on the bus this morning.

    The trip, despite being an emotional rollercoaster, provided little room for “insights”, but made me feel a lot, which I think is why it was useful. It shook up my slumbering world of endlessly talking about my feelings or lack of them. I arrived back to the city, feeling different…. feeling! different.

    This is what I have lost sight of, what I lost when I sunk into shame, the ability to do this. (Although, again, im just providing an insight here haha). The first therapist helped me deconstruct my feelings and then asked me to justify them… examined as such I was able to negate a lot of them. I started to do this in my day to day life, and for 3 years I really, really started to feel relieved from the burdens my childhood left me with… I relaxed etc as I have described. The second one, we just talked about it endlessly, and then she would say “ben, youre not breathing” and force me to stop talking and do a breathing exercise. I never felt good, only frustrated after those sessions… I think it traumatized me a little. Ever since, Ive tried to repeat the process I used to be so good at, but to no avail… its like I cant find the right page or right chapter.

    But well, I agree, I just need practice and dedication to control and continue having insightful feelings not just, as you say, dry intellectual observations of my own mind.

    #234963
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Ben:

    The relief you felt with the first therapy, that was to be a beginning. Even if you continued with the same therapist, that relief wouldn’t have lasted and lasted. It is not that easy or fast to undo shaming pathways. Those reliefs let us know it is possible for us to be relieved of shame. But making it an ongoing reality, that takes a lot of time and persistence and guidance.

    I hope you learn a way to be content on any particular day for making some progress. No progress is too small to acknowledge and all future progress is based on the little progress we make today.

    anita

    #234977
    Ben
    Participant

    Thanks Anita.

    Indeed, if you have any advice for me I will be glad to accept it and try my best to apply it to my life.

    I know exactly what you mean. I had my stumbles with my old therapy. I remember I struggled a lot in my first year at university, the first few months of not being able to offload each week with the counsellor, it was very hard. I contemplated leaving unversity altogether. But I managed to pick myself up, and slowly drifted from my parents. It was that return, which, I had struggled with a university too, whether to break the bond on a more permanent basis. I remember I finished my final exams, and was planning to join my parents on holiday before going to brazil. Clearly, even after those 3 years I hadnt expunged that conflict (because I wasnt aware), and tried to say going on holiuday to see them was totally cool and natural. A good friend had told me to go on my own adventure, stay and get a little summer job. But, I was still drawn to my parents… after all, I felt so much better, I wanted to be an adult in front of them…

    Ugh.. well, more insights but it helps me to forgive myself a little bit for what happened by finally understanding the shock.

    Anyway, any advice on what to think or tell myself, even if it wont work instantly, is greatly appreciated Anita.

    Thanks.

    #234983
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Ben:

    You are welcome.

    You wrote regarding what happened after therapy: “I was still drawn to my parents… after all, I felt so much better, I wanted to be an adult in front of them..”-

    This is a common mistake that injured adult children do following therapy and feeling better. It is like this: your father gave you an F, a Fail. So you go to therapy, feel better about yourself so you go back to your father and say to him: I am better now, will you give me a C, or a B?

    You figure he may give you a higher grade. Maybe later, if you go to more therapy, he may give you an A

    What happens next is you don’t get a higher grade, you get depressed, feeling bad again and figure therapy doesn’t work.

    My advice: next time you feel better as a result of therapy or healing otherwise, don’t go to your parents for a better grade. Resist the temptation, it will drag you down into sickness again, and fast.

    Thing is this: the value of a grade has to do with the qualifications of the one giving the grade. Your father is not qualified and neither is your mother. You thought they were because all children think their parents are qualified. As a matter of fact, no  one more than parents get to be gods in the eyes of their young children, perfectly qualified, all knowing, the wisest, the strongest.

    Again, they are not qualified. I am a stranger to you, you never met me, probably never will. And yet, I am way more qualified than your parents ever have been (!) to evaluate you. Isn’t that amazing?

    anita

    #235249
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Ben:

    I evaluate the little child in you, the boy that you still are, as loving and lovable  from the moment you came into this world and all through to this very day.

    anita

    #235341
    Ben
    Participant

    Hi Anita

    Thanks, people often say i’m a nice person, and I “accept” it, I take the compliment, but I realise I’ve never truly accepted it… perhaps during my more powerful moments etc, that long-lost time where I was happy, I did. But right now, I feel bad in comparison. My motivations are from some dark evil place…

    I like the idea of being graded by parents. I feel thats exactly what happened, 4 years ago, and last week again. I was so happy, so mhch better after my trip, I told them hoping they’d finally realise I was an “adult” but alas, no. I’m here again, nervous, self doubting, needy.

    At the same time, perhaps subconciously, every now and then a useful thought appears that isnt reflected on. Its like a mental note to change the functions of my mind rather than simply keep thinking and thinking. I have to identify thoughts and feelings etc. This is what has been lacking, a procedure to use.

    I can keep saying oh I miss my boyfriend or oh I struggled to be relax today, but these are just facts, thinking about why wont change them. I have to change how I recognize emotions etc to control them. And to keep reminding myself of this process. It’s hard, my mind feels very slothful in changing over, even tho I felt so good when I was functioning a little more smoothly after the trip. I’m almost telling myself I don’t deserve that life, that power to feel in control of myself.

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