Counter-Challenge:
Take a moment with this koan, no need to overthink, just let the words settle and see what comes up:

A monk asked the master, “From where does the path arise?”
The master replied, “From the source, like a river from the mountain.”
The monk pressed further, “Then may I walk back to the mountain?”
The master shook his head: “When the river flows, it does not climb. The mountain is not behind you; it is beneath your every step.”

Then, write a short story of what a day in flow might look like for you. After that, reflect on why you doubt its possibility.
There’s no right or wrong answer.

What seems to ring true for me is the mind is what moves. And, the mind is therefore only ever temporarily still. The enlightened mind sees emptiness even as the mind has thoughts, or bodily activity. Dogen believed that there is no difference between the mind in stillness and enlightenment itself, only that the meditator may not realize this. A good teacher can actually point out this enlightened mind so that the student can learn to practice in it.

There are those who seek emptiness or the realization of the “no-self”. The mistake is thinking it is separate or something to achieve. The belief that the death of the self is needed to attain freedom from suffering. One can not polish a roof tile into a mirror. You can not make yourself into something you are not already. So, Zen believes one is already enlightened. Only one has to realized this thru experience. Much like walking around thinking one has no head. That the head was lost. Then suddenly realized the head has been there all along.

A person can learn many things and become a auto mechanic or plumber or electrician or whatever. But, one can not learn to become enlightened. Understanding takes us so far. Words are the vehicle that takes one to the edge. Then the jump must be made to cross beyond the mind’s ability to understand.

Sorry for the rant.

Dear James,

All I ask is to look into the mirror (metaphorically speaking) and say those same things. Cause I can see how you hold tight to those beliefs of yours. Not asking you to stop believing. Just to take a second look.

Hi James and Thomas
I’m finding a lot of insight in your posts.

As a third party observer when I read Thomas’s reflections, I did not interpret them as statements of personal belief, but rather as pointing toward something to be embodied in practice. That is why I was somewhat surprised by James’s response, which seemed to frame Thomas as holding onto a belief.

It feels like both of you are pointing to the same truth but from different sides. Thomas is describing how Zen teachings emphasize that enlightenment is already present, not something to be achieved. James is reminding us that even holding onto that description as a belief can become another form of attachment.

I wonder if the word ‘believe’ is where the wires cross? Thomas is using it to mean ‘Zen points toward,’ while James hears it as personal belief and something to hold on to. If we shift the language to ‘Zen teaches’ or ‘Zen points to,’ the overlap becomes clearer: enlightenment is not attained, but realized when clinging drops away. In that sense, you’re both describing different aspects of the “stepping off the raft“.

James said, “Love is not being alone or isolated.
İt is sharing, caring and compassion.

Why does all teachers, Sufi’s and prophets dedicated them life to share these with humanity?

Because, when body and mind are surrendered or returned to factory settings or so called self returned to source, this is what body and mind’s condition. Love, sharing and caring, and telling to Truth is inevitable.

I am here not to pat people, I am here to help, care and specially warn.”

And I have asked you to share your wisdom and compassion with those who come here for their suffering.
I don’t know. Have you done anything else than start your own topics and replied to them.
Have you posted help and advice on another’s thread for hope?
Have you lent that compassionate ear to learn of other’s pain and suffering?
Sorry, this is not an accusation. Only questions.

Thanks Thomas and I agree

Hello Everyone:

First, I want to apologize to Thomas and to James for posing here 2 days ago: “Personally, I (Anita) 👍 James’s views over Thomas’s 👎”. I shouldn’t have. It’s a tendency of mine- when I sense aggression between two people- to.. take a side.

I wonder if “Real Spirituality” includes arguing, forcefulness and even aggression..?

Peter: “I wonder, if flow were possible for you today, what might it look like? Not in the past, but in the life you have now.
For me that is what the koan hints at… the ground beneath our feet. No pressure, just curious what comes up for you”-

Thank you, Peter. Actually, I just did, in this response- I went with the flow! Spent very little time on this response, just wrote what it was that came through my mind. Same as my other responses this afternoon. I suppose going with the flow today, means.. not overthinking, or researching.. just flowing along on this computer screen you’re looking at.

Anita