Home→Forums→Spirituality→Surrender, Accessing Shakti by clearing samskaras, eliminating false selves
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Helcat.
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April 16, 2024 at 12:29 pm #431760
RobertaParticipantDear Sea Turtle
What kind of things do you want to do when you are in Palm Springs? If it is things like hiking swimming yoga etc you could say to P that you want it to be a retreat with lots of silence and meditations and if that’s not her kind of thing you two could go out and something together on your return to celebrate your birthday. This way you have established boundaries for her behavior if she chooses to go with you Palm Springs. If you feel that your friendship has truly run its course then dis-inviting her is an option though i have a feeling it will leave a nasty taste in both your mouths.
Best wishes
Roberta
April 16, 2024 at 2:16 pm #431766
seaturtleParticipantDear Helcat,
“for when you notice that your false self arises…you can notice feelings of stress arising in your body… The idea is to notice these feelings in your body one by one and sit with the feeling, give it an opportunity to relax and open up.”
“I would say that the easiest way to tell if you are falling into patterns of your false self would be to reflect on your emotional state. Are you feeling calm? If so, probably not.”
– Does this also go for when I am bored and want to not be? In those moments I do feel slight stress/ resistance to the way I feel. After I have done what I wanted to with a day, and I still have time at the end, I am working on what to do with that time. Right now I find myself turning on the tv, getting chocolate or a glass of wine, but I am starting to notice, I get this boredom at a certain time every day and feel the need to fill it with entertainment or inspiration. Sometimes it is art, which I wonder if that is more productive than a movie and sweets. When my roommate is home it is easy to just talk or do something together. It’s funny I am asking for Shakti, for clarity and more life giving energy, yet I am not sure where to spend it. In those moments of boredom I feel restless, my mind says find something to do! If I just sit there, I feel calm, but unsatisfied. If this feeling of boredom is something that can be solved within, I am not sure how, because I have attempted relaxing and becoming aware of my state of mind, but then I just feel like “now what?”
Do your thoughts remind you of anyone you know? Have you heard something similar before? Remember the absorbing patterns from other people and experiences.
This is interesting, I am going to try and ask these questions when I feel stress. Realizing when a thought isn’t me.
“For example, I value kindness and understanding. But when I’m feeling triggered my thoughts become distrusting, feeling like people are intentionally hurting me and become defensive. You see my pattern of the false self?”
So then reacting out of any past pain is a false self. Does this mean whenever I feel like negativity wants to leave my body, that, is a false self? Does recognizing your false self help you to find your true self? Do you think that at the core, all of our true selves are morally/ and belief aligned? If we see someone acting as a false self, how do we engage with that?
As I read further you said you engage with changing the topic. If you observe that they inevitably wrap back around to something negative, do you remove yourself or try to help them? I wonder if trying to help people in this way is productive at all, or completely not our place?
Seaturtle
April 16, 2024 at 2:36 pm #431768seaturtleParticipantDear Roberta,
Hi! I am happy to hear from you again 🙂
“What kind of things do you want to do when you are in Palm Springs?”
I would like to relax by the pool, play tennis/pickle ball and yes I have visualized us having morning yoga.
“you could say to P that you want it to be a retreat with lots of silence and meditations and if that’s not her kind of thing you two could go out and something together on your return to celebrate your birthday. “
This is a good idea, and it will be part of my conversation with her. I have asked her before why she talks so much, and at first she got defensive and said it was untrue… but then she said silence makes her uncomfortable. I asked her why, but she didn’t have the self awareness to really consider it, she just rephrased the word “uncomfortable” and said “silence is awkward.” So I left it alone. So Perhaps telling her this trip will have LOTS of silence, will turn her off to it, or she will come and realize how much she actually talks, which I would be fine with that outcome as well haha.
Seaturtle
April 16, 2024 at 2:49 pm #431769seaturtleParticipantDear Anita,
“– if you don’t disinvite her and suffer her presence during your birthday weekend (enduring her negative, on and on venting, etc.)), then you’d be a bad friend to you, wouldn’t you?”
“And you’d be losing you, wouldn’t you?”
-I want to be a good friend, I want that to be apart of who seaturtle is. So by giving up on her wouldn’t I be going against myself too? I need to learn when I need to let go of someone/something, but recently I gave up someone (you know who). And now I think I don’t want to do it again unless it is so so necessary. I do not want to lose me. I want to find me so that I know what I need to lose… I wonder if it can happen in that order..
“you are afraid of being your true, assertive self, so you are hoping that she (P) will make the right choice for you.”
You are right. Instead I want to be assertive and kind, and I am going to attempt this. I want to honor my assertive true self.
Seaturtle
April 16, 2024 at 7:16 pm #431773
anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
“I want to be a good friend, I want that to be a part of who seaturtle is… I need to learn when I need to let go of someone/something, but recently I gave up someone (you know who). And now I think I don’t want to do it again unless it is so so necessary”–
– I didn’t suggest that you let go of and give up on P. My point is, restated, that if you want a positive, relaxing birthday weekend in Palm Springs, then having a person who is, (your words), “so negative“, who “talks just so much, doesn’t allow a moment of silence… cuts me off… doesn’t listen when I talk…just waits to talk“, is not congruent with having a positive, relaxing weekend, not for you, and not for your roommate- friend.
It is your birthday weekend to spend as you choose. Maybe having P will turn out to be a surprising delight. I don’t know.
I read your recent posts about your boredom and restlessness, and what occurred to me is that you need the most- seems to me- a why, as in what Vicktor Frankl wrote in his book, Man’s Search for Meaning: “Those who have a ‘why’ to live, can bear with almost any ‘how’“, a why, a meaning, a “dedication to a cause greater than oneself”.
Your grandmother Oma was born in 1942 in a bunker in Germany. Viktor Frankl, born in Austria, was 37 when your grandmother was born. Based on his experience in Auschwitz as a psychiatrist, he wrote Man’s Search for Meaning and founded logotherapy which is based on the premise that the primary motivational force of an individual is to find a meaning in life.
anita
April 17, 2024 at 9:00 am #431796
HelcatParticipantHi Seaturtle
Happy Birthday btw! 🎂🎈🎁🎉 I hope you have a really good party. It sounds amazing! 😊
I think sometimes upbringing and societal expectations can make people uncomfortable with relaxing. I know that it used to make me feel that way. Relaxing is really important though. Perhaps you could experiment with different things and see what you like best? I learned that usually whatever I choose to do, is usually what I want to do in that moment. I found it helpful to make peace with that. There is 100% nothing wrong with watching a movie.
But if you would like to do something productive to fill some time, reflect on your interests and core values. I’m sure that you will be able to come up with some ideas. I found it helpful to have a list of ideas of things to do for when I get bored.
How did your parents handle it when you or they were bored?
I think wanting negativity to leave your body is part of letting go. It’s important for grounding yourself, but I guess tempering that with patience and self compassion is important. If you were bullying yourself for not being able to move on quickly for example. That could be another example of false self because our inner critic picks up patterns from other people. It can be difficult to let go of things.
There can also be compulsions to ruminate on things that hurt us. In psychology there is an idea that people are drawn to what is normal for them. So for kids who are abused, their state of “normality” is abuse. These once children, now adults can go on to psychologically abuse themselves to maintain a state of “normality” once they have been removed from an abusive situation. I don’t know if that makes any sense? It is possible to change these patterns and it involves a lot of relaxation techniques, practising healthy boundaries, communication and self-compassion.
It is difficult to say because it varies from person to person, situation to situation. Any confrontation even polite, if the person isn’t receptive might not help. But it can be worth it if it involves setting a boundary that is healthy for ourselves. It really is down to you to decide what is best.
I will add that the person who I change the topic of conversation with isn’t receptive to discussing these things and has severe depression. I just repeatedly change the topic of conversation over and over otherwise we would be talking about what is depressing them the whole time.
When there are other people it’s easier because I can just talk to someone else when I’m mentally checked out.
Another good one when you are interrupted is, interrupting back and say “Sorry I was actually saying…” and continuing on with what I was talking about. In my culture, in groups people are often talking over each other, so it’s quite loud and tends to be lots of people talking over each other. No one says sorry at that point, but no harm is meant. 😂
Everyone has their personal choices. I think if you try and help someone and they don’t have good boundaries it can set the tone for that being the entire relationship. I prefer friendships to be two sided as opposed to one sided. It’s very difficult to change things once that has happened. It can be painful to not receive support from a friend. If someone has good boundaries it’s easier because you help each other and it’s not one sided.
Wishing you all the best! ❤️🙏
April 18, 2024 at 4:12 am #431826HelcatParticipantHi Seaturtle
I left a long message yesterday, but I believe I forgot something.
Does recognizing your false self help you to find your true self? Do you think that at the core, all of our true selves are morally/ and belief aligned?
Yes and yes. The goal is to learn to see situations as they are without the added pain of the past. This is easier said than done when trauma is involved. Healing the initial trauma and being able to address the past pain separately is important. Therapy is helpful with this.
There are times when people act against their true beliefs and it hurts them. It is said that everyone has buddha nature. In Buddhism there is a journey to Enlightenment that takes many lifetimes.
April 22, 2024 at 7:33 pm #431941anitaParticipantAbout 1 week to your 25 year-old birthday, Seaturtle. A quarter of a century. It’s okay if you don’t respond to this post, really! Nevertheless, it’s impossible to forget a real-life, human sea turtle.
anita
April 23, 2024 at 1:09 pm #431960seaturtleParticipantDear Anita,
I hope you had a nice weekend 🙂
“My point is, restated, that if you want a positive, relaxing birthday weekend in Palm Springs, then having a person who is, (your words), “so negative“, who “talks just so much, doesn’t allow a moment of silence… cuts me off… doesn’t listen when I talk…just waits to talk“, is not congruent with having a positive, relaxing weekend, not for you, and not for your roommate- friend.”
– Although these things are true, they aren’t always true, I have been able to relax with her before, and she has been in more positive spirits, the version of her I remain hopeful for in Palm Springs…
– Also, something else that is congruent with me, is that I don’t want to control so much anymore, and that includes other people’s behavior. Maybe then the solution is to not expect a relaxing weekend in Palm Springs, just what is meant to be will be, and I will grow from it spiritually by learning to let go of the part of me that is bothered…? (more on this later)
-I Spoke with her over Sunday morning coffee and learned something new about me and her. In the conversation she said she felt what I was saying was unfair, she said she can’t help but talk so much cause she has adhd.. She also said she is negative because it has been a hard year, just as my hard year with my last living situation, when I was negative too so it was unfair of me to tell her her negativity was a problem. I explained that to vent about a struggle is ok with me, but when the negativity bleeds out into her constantly complaining about other things too, that was not something I wanted to handle. She got teary eyed. Claimed I was calling her out in public… we were in a cafe and few people around with headphones on. I told her, no this is not “public” and also even if a random person here heard us then who cares… this is way more important than that. She sort of broke down into tears, talking about it has been the hardest year of her life and she would try to recognize her negativity, she said she knew she was negative and that is why she has been less social lately.
- Days before meeting, I decided I would not give in to my minds thoughts all week, trying to plan every word. I decided I would try to use this situation to practice surrendering to life’s events and staying centered. I also told myself all I needed to know was that she was going to be aware of her negativity, I didn’t expect it to change over night, so when she admitted that I felt like that was all I could do, she is coming and we will see. The morning of our meeting, I did what gets me centered the most accurately, hot yoga. I met her at a cafe, one of my favorite places to stay centered. As she said those things above, I stayed quiet trying to reflect, I did not agree that I was all that negative to her last year, I kept most to myself and actually here with you Anita. I didn’t say this to her because I doubted myself, and still do, maybe I was negative to her and how can I deny that? I don’t have a perfect memory, and it would make sense since I was in a hard place with a very challenged third eye. When she said the thing about talking so much cause her therapist, when she was little, said she had adhd… I really wanted to roll my eyes. I know that letting your thoughts run away and talk talk talk, is manageable through mindfulness. But Again I didn’t say anything because I thought maybe she did have some condition, how can I tell her her talking is controllable if I am not in her body?…
- Today, 2 days later, I don’t really feel much better about her coming. The cafe was good for us though, in that she seemed to respect my presence and aspired to be more centered and positive too. And of course after I told her she talked too much she let me speak as much as I needed to and I was definitely able to express myself and felt like she was actively listening and I felt seen. I still don’t like how she just had all the excuses for talking so much, and also her negativity. I didn’t see that in the moment though, today I recognize all the excuses and wonder if anything will actually change at all.
There’s a similar topic, that this is a good example for, that I want to ask your thoughts on. Right now is a good example of a time where I don’t know whether to let go, or ask her not to come. I know I said before, maybe I need to drop my expectation of a relaxing trip and let life unfold how it will if I don’t step in and ask her not to come. When to take control and when to not, is really difficult for me to decipher at this stage of my spiritual growth.
“I read your recent posts about your boredom and restlessness, and what occurred to me is that you need the most- seems to me- a why”
– I have a why, for why I come to work, and why I do alot of other things I do. That boredom comes in for the last few hours of the day, yes I do need a why for that timing.
Seaturtle
April 23, 2024 at 1:29 pm #431962seaturtleParticipantDear Helcat,
Thank you for the Birthday wishes 🙂
“How did your parents handle it when you or they were bored?”
– I don’t recall complaining about boredom. But I remember if I was bored, especially in the summer time I would go to my neighbors house, a girl my age lived there and we enjoyed alot of the same activities. I was also in soccer at least twice a week after school. They would put on movies for us, my siblings and I, when they didn’t want to be bothered. Or they would tell us we had to stay outside for a block amount of time, I would get creative with my siblings and build a fort or sell lemonade. We spent alot of days at a swimming pool, that always exhausted us. I had a very fun childhood. I also played by myself alot, dolls or art. I still do art now, quite often when I am bored, but the issue is it is messy and my roommate doesn’t like it so I haven’t recently :/. I have tried before to designate a space but I always feel like I am in her way or she disaproves of my organized mess staying out for days, which is what my projects take.
“These once children, now adults can go on to psychologically abuse themselves to maintain a state of “normality” once they have been removed from an abusive situation. I don’t know if that makes any sense? It is possible to change these patterns and it involves a lot of relaxation techniques, practising healthy boundaries, communication and self-compassion.”
-Yes I completely understand! In fact I have been practicing all of these techniques in order to let go of past pain so that it does not dictate my future. That is what I was referring to when I called past pains, “samskaras,” that block our energy from fully passing through us. I don’t want past pain to dictate my comfort. Which may be why I am having a hard time recently with a long time childhood friend, the one coming to my birthday weekend. I am afraid that she is someone I picked out of past pain and now that I have been working to release these past scars, she no longer fills a need I no longer have… But I love her, and ending our relationship seems harsh and heart breaking…
“I will add that the person who I change the topic of conversation with isn’t receptive to discussing these things and has severe depression. I just repeatedly change the topic of conversation over and over otherwise we would be talking about what is depressing them the whole time.”
-What makes you not just let them go?
“Another good one when you are interrupted is, interrupting back and say “Sorry I was actually saying…” “
-This is actually something I have started doing! But I don’t like to, is the problem haha, it makes me feel like I am stooping to their level.
“I think if you try and help someone and they don’t have good boundaries it can set the tone for that being the entire relationship.”
-I end up in this scenario very often. I wonder if this has to do with the fact my mom treated me more like a friend than a daughter on many occasions, since I am the oldest. She has overstepped her sharing boundary many times.
Seaturtle
April 23, 2024 at 1:33 pm #431963seaturtleParticipantHelcat,
” Healing the initial trauma and being able to address the past pain separately is important. Therapy is helpful with this.”
-I have tried to find a therapist here since I moved away from my last one. I have found it very hard to find someone. Everytime I get close, it doesn’t quite feel right.
Seaturtle
April 23, 2024 at 1:35 pm #431964seaturtleParticipant“About 1 week to your 25 year-old birthday, Seaturtle. A quarter of a century. It’s okay if you don’t respond to this post, really! Nevertheless, it’s impossible to forget a real-life, human sea turtle.”
I wish I could “love” a message here as I can with my iPhone, haha. 🥰
Seaturtle
April 23, 2024 at 5:48 pm #431972anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
“Maybe then the solution is to not expect a relaxing weekend in Palm Springs, just what is meant to be will be, and I will grow from it spiritually by learning to let go of the part of me that is bothered…?“- you are the birthday girl, you choose!
“I decided I would try to use this situation to practice surrendering to life’s events and staying centered“- I think that your decision can lead to a growing opportunity,
“There’s a similar topic, that this is a good example for, that I want to ask your thoughts on… I don’t know whether to let go, or ask her not to come… When to take control and when to not, is really difficult for me to decipher at this stage of my spiritual growth“- I suggest to make your birthday weekend an empathy weekend: empathy for you, empathy for you roommate-friend, and empathy for P. Make it-in principle and in practice- an SEBW, a Seaturtle Empathy Birthday Weekend.
anita
April 23, 2024 at 6:19 pm #431973anitaParticipantAn Empathy For All (3 friends) Weekend should take P out of her own distress/ misery and be there for you and for your roommate- friend. There is healing in being present for others.
anita
April 24, 2024 at 12:24 am #431990HelcatParticipantHi Seaturtle
Ah so you always had something to do growing up. Perhaps this is why sometimes there is a feeling when you don’t have something to do?
I’m sorry to hear that you haven’t been doing art because of your roommate. Does she treat you any differently if you do make a mess for a few days?
My mother was very arty. As a person she was very tidy, but her art corner in the kitchen was always messy and always there. It would be nice for you to have the freedom to do something like that if you wanted. I would suggest having a deep conversation with your roommate. You should be allowed to do art, something you love, it is your house too. Perhaps if there is something that she would like the freedom to do, that could be a part of the conversation?
I can understand that, people change, relationships change and they don’t necessarily stay in your life forever.
For me, it is family and a moral decision to stay in contact. If it was just myself, I wouldn’t be in contact. But I have a son and it would hurt the person not to be allowed to see him.
That’s a very good insight about your mother oversharing!
I’m sure that in time you will find a suitable therapist. You do have time, so it makes sense to find someone that fits.
Regarding your friend. I did wonder if she had adhd or autism when you mentioned that she talked a lot. It’s not an excuse, it’s a serious condition and part of who she is. She will never be able to talk less, so please give her some grace and understand that she doesn’t mean to be rude. Imagine how difficult it is for her to hear from many people how they don’t like something that is a large part of her and that she has no control over. This is a difficulty that she will face.
It does sound like she is just suffering from depression during the worst year of her life, it’s potentially going to be difficult for her to control her negativity. When you tire of it, I suggest taking some time for away for yourself. That way she can take care of herself and you can take care of yourself.
Love and best wishes! 🙏❤️
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