Home→Forums→Spirituality→Surrender, Accessing Shakti by clearing samskaras, eliminating false selves
- This topic has 94 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 1 day, 12 hours ago by
Helcat.
-
AuthorPosts
-
September 18, 2024 at 8:11 pm #438214
seaturtleParticipantDear Helcat,
Wow, IT sounds very technical, where are you wanting it to take you after school?
The Tibetan Book of the Dead is a great read about all of this. There is also a commentary on it called The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying.
– good to know!!
Just wait until the potty training starts haha, I am currently doing this with the girl I nanny, alongside her parents. The entire house had towels and floor mats down for a week and she needed to be watched like a hawk, but so many wins along the way 🙂
That is gloomy news about your cat and dog, especially the cat prank calls that actually feels cruel. Life is just so unpredictable, the parents of the little girl I nanny are separating, so I’ve been under some rain clouds lately too. Things that are just impossible to prepare for. I appreciate your optimism though, and on the same trend I am trying to see things as growing opportunities… even gifts? I just recently read the Alchemist, have you read it? It has me currently on high awareness for omens.
I so hope you can figure things out too. You’ve shared so much good relationship advice with me and I am sure with others, so your karma could be very helpful right about now! I hope it’s a situation you can see clearly as you move through it.
t’s very romantic of him to invite you along, it does sound like you are doing the right thing focusing on your personal journey. Who knows what will happen later? I’m sure you will stay in touch and find out.
– It was romantic 🙂 It is difficult to not want the relationship now though and I have some fear that it won’t return and I am passing something up that I will regret.
I don’t think you miss windows running on automatic. But the proactive approach perhaps creates new windows.
-The end of your message is deep and I think could lead to a lot of interesting conversations. Creating new windows is interesting, I wonder if new is necessarily better? To me it seems someone running on automatic would miss things right in front of them, miss signs of what to potentially avoid or persue, it seems like the harder route to take, sort of like ignorance is bliss. I think of automatic as being on auto pilot, not feeling your feelings and missing out on connections, is this what you mean?
There is no sense avoiding good experiences to prevent bad things from happening. That is a way to miss out on life and suffer.
This makes me loop back to being afraid that I am passing up an opportunity with K that won’t come around again. Cause a reason I don’t want to align my life with his yet, is that I don’t want to miss out on individual growth. I don’t want to get stuck in a gaslighting loop like I did with N, giving a dying relationship all of my energy. I am currently pondering the question of whether I can grow individually with him now or not, If he would make me stronger or weaker… One of my solutions to that has been to just not make any big decisions and individually, just keep moving forward until there’s some clearer sign, but missing an opportunity is a fear I have.
Seaturtle
September 20, 2024 at 12:27 am #438247
HelcatParticipantHi Seaturtle
Haha carrier pidgeon might be faster 😂
I’m planning on working in IT.
You must give me some potty training tips! I got a little glimpse of it when he was sick and we had to collect a urine sample. He kept peeing the second I looked away.
Thank you for your kind words! I hope that we get through it too. ❤️
I’m sorry to hear that things are difficult with the child’s parents separating.
I haven’t read it but will definitely check it out.
That’s a very positive way of looking at things. 😊
The unknown is difficult because you don’t know what is going to happen. Sometimes that is harder than knowing. I think that you should trust your intuition. You made the decision using your intuition, so it was the right one.
I can see why you think of automatic as on autopilot. But that isn’t what I meant. There is a concept in teaching. You know the things you know. You know some things that you don’t know. And then you don’t know some things that you don’t know. These are called unknown unknowns. It’s this idea of unknown unknowns that I tend to think of as running on automatic. To change first there needs to be understanding. So it’s really hard to change what you don’t know needs to be changed. If that makes sense? Only when we become aware of a possibility can we work on it.
I don’t necessarily think that one window is better than the other. Life offers us different opportunities. Sometimes we have more time to devote to self development in certain areas. Sometimes we have to focus on specific things. Sometimes we have less time. Sometimes you just get to the point where you acknowledge that perhaps a dislike of self can drive personal development and you decide that it is important to finally accept who you are.
Ultimately, I have faith that things work out the way they are supposed to.
I can understand not wanting to miss out on an opportunity. He also seemed really nice and you felt seen by him. You are also adventurous. It is understandable to be tempted and conflicted about the decision. Ultimately, your intuition is what should guide you in this decision.
Love and best wishes! ❤️🙏
September 21, 2024 at 10:53 am #438269seaturtleParticipantDear Anita,
This response reminds me of how clearly you see things, and how I have learned so much from you. You put things into words that are like floating puzzle pieces in my mind and you connect them just like that.
“It’s a conflict within you.”
This is exactly how it feels, like I am arguing with myself, and as my natural self is revealing itself, the conflict is the thought “stop this is too much expression!” “Look around only your shoes and backpack are out”
In these moments K has seen me start to go back into my shell and looked at me with curiosity as I am hiding in my turtle shell. He doesn’t ask me, but I admit to him that I feel like I have shared too much and I need him to reciprocate before I can reveal more. And as he starts to reveal himself, it brings me out of my shell again. It is so interesting because it is like this automatic response I have, to retreat into my shell, but I simultaneously know that I don’t want to and I also know what I need to come back out. K is very receptive to what I tell him I need to feel more comfortable, and not only does he not react as though it is inconvenient to him, he acts with admiration that I know what I need and he is happy to give it. 🙂
This neutral and positive response from him lets me hear this conflict in me. Rather than F and N looking at me confused and irritated, which only adds to what is going on in my head and I can’t even hear myself because of the new thoughts their reactions create “oh no I have shared too much” “now I am alone and over exposed again, why do I keep doing this to myself, I will share less of myself next time to avoid this.”
If there is such thing as a twin flame, K is one. He makes me feel safe in wounded places and definitely makes me feel challenged in areas I am stubborn. He also had a similar childhood to me in interesting ways, both parents narcissistic, and emotionally requiring his support as a child. It makes for very similar experiences but with different perspectives, I think we have a lot we can learn from eachother.
Seaturtle
September 21, 2024 at 11:22 am #438270seaturtleParticipantDear Helcat,
You must give me some potty training tips!
What I can say, as we are about 4 weeks in, the first 3-5 days plan nothing else. Something I wasn’t expecting was how often they just tinkle! We were constantly watching her legs, and it was definitely a two man job for the first 3-5 days. I spent more days with them that week, and as I got there the parents alternated taking showers and one was always with me. Pads, towels and sheets all over their floors, with 3 potties spread throughout their one story home. Also a tip, we started at 10 min intervals, then slowly worked our way to 20, and now she says when she needs to go! but at the intervals, her mom read not to ask her, because if you ask them if they need to go potty they will see no every time, cause they don’t “want” to, it’s like they don’t really understand what that question means. So at intervals we say “we are going to the potty,” and sit there till she does. At each potty station we had a stack of books, half of which were potty training books, to normalize bathroom talk haha. I have never talked so much about such things hahaha.
I did make the decision with my intuition and you are right that is enough to just trust it. 🙂
“There is a concept in teaching. You know the things you know. You know some things that you don’t know. And then you don’t know some things that you don’t know. These are called unknown unknowns. It’s this idea of unknown unknowns that I tend to think of as running on automatic. To change first there needs to be understanding. So it’s really hard to change what you don’t know needs to be changed. If that makes sense? Only when we become aware of a possibility can we work on it.”
Wow this gave me such a vivid memory. My grandpa told me this once about this concept. So on automatic, is that person not acknowledging the unknown unknowns? As opposed to someone not-on automatic, is trying to see them? If this is what you mean I do relate, to times of not having the perceived energy to see more, but then also times of the opposite. Like I feel on the cusp of something I need to know, and am hesitant to make decisions even, because I just know I am missing a certain perspective or knowledge. Actually, now as I express this, I think this is how I live my life, I am in automatic for a while then I hit some sort of wall that doesn’t make sense to me, so then I have to pause and see more of my unknown unknowns before I can move forward. Sometimes I even get anxious, just wanting to know all the things I don’t know before I move forward so not to make a mistake or not live my life to the fullest.
Maybe this is also why I was away from this forum for a while, because I came here in my state of knowing there were unknown unknowns, and You and Anita, helped me see so much. Then I ran on automatic with my new eyes, and now I am looking to see more once again. I wonder if this window of running on automatic, shortens over time and my capacity to see unknown unknowns broadens, and at some point I will be constantly seeing the unknown unknowns, and living as wise as I can..
Ultimately, I have faith that things work out the way they are supposed to.
This reminds me of the book that K is writing, a book of going back in time but trying not to change history and the effects of watching even the bad parts of history play out.
Seaturtle
September 21, 2024 at 7:41 pm #438272
anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
I will reply further Sun morning, but for now, this sounds/ feels very special.. precious: “If there is such thing as a twin flame, K is one. He makes me feel safe in wounded places“.
anita
September 22, 2024 at 9:44 am #438273anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
Thank you for your appreciation! “As my natural self is revealing itself, the conflict is the thought ‘stop this is too much expression!’“-
– your use of natural self makes me think of Shakti (in the title of your thread). Wikipedia/ shakti: “Shakti in Hinduism, is the ‘universal power‘ that underlies and sustains all existence… According to the Monier-Williams dictionary, Shakti is the Sanskrit feminine term meaning ‘energy, ability, strength, effort, power, might, capability‘, and ‘capability for‘, or ‘power over‘”.
May you access and maintain access to Shakti every day, every night, and so, have power over the voice that tells you this is too much expression.
“In these moments K has seen me start to go back into my shell and looked at me with curiosity as I am hiding in my turtle shell… And as he starts to reveal himself, it brings me out of my shell again… K is very receptive to what I tell him I need to feel more comfortable, and not only does he not react as though it is inconvenient to him, he acts with admiration that I know what I need and he is happy to give it“- a perfect match for a sea turtle!
“This neutral and positive response from him lets me hear this conflict in me. Rather than F and N looking at me confused and irritated, which only adds to what is going on in my head and I can’t even hear myself because of the new thoughts their reactions create“- excellent insight, I am impressed!
From your post to Helcat: “I think this is how I live my life, I am in automatic for a while then I hit some sort of wall that doesn’t make sense to me, so then I have to pause and see more of my unknown unknowns before I can move forward. Sometimes I even get anxious, just wanting to know all the things I don’t know before I move forward so not to make a mistake or not live my life to the fullest“- I am thinking that if you access and maintain access to Shakti, you will not be anxious, not for as long as you and Shakti are One. I want to adopt this concept today.
“Maybe this is also why I was away from this forum for a while, because I came here in my state of knowing there were unknown unknowns, and You and Anita, helped me see so much. Then I ran on automatic with my new eyes, and now I am looking to see more once again. I wonder if this window of running on automatic, shortens over time and my capacity to see unknown unknowns broadens, and at some point I will be constantly seeing the unknown unknowns, and living as wise as I can..“- I am thinking that to tap into/ to be One with Shakti, it takes trusting yourself to be a good person first, because you wouldn’t allow a bad person all that power and capability. I wouldn’t.
When I believed or suspected that I was a bad person, I wasn’t able to be spontaneous most of the time. I was regularly hesitant, careful; I waited, postponed, retreated, scared of making mistakes. Because a mistake by a bad person.. is a big, bad mistake.
A short walk down memory lane- Oct 11, 2023 (your third post in this thread): “I have wondered before if I am a narcissist and a taker in life”- this is you suspecting that you are a bad person.
Same revealing post: “Every 3 months, not an exaggeration, we would have what he began to call ‘house cleaning’ where we would sit down and he would list all the ways I had exemplified being ‘ungrateful’ at his house“- in other words, every 3 months he would list the ways you were a bad daughter/ a bad person.
And your reaction (same 3rd post): “while I lived with him I went through a lot of suicidal thoughts and running away attempts“- thinking about killing the.. alleged bad person (yourself), and running away from the person who sent you this painful message that you are a bad person.
On Oct 13, I wrote to you: “For a young child, a parent is like a mirror facing the child… similar to your father in suggesting that you didn’t care about him, my mother suggested the same, and she went on long tirades about how- not only did I not care about her- but that I wanted to hurt her feelings, that I made elaborate plans to hurt her, etc. All untrue, paranoid-like. She was my mirror and her presenting me as BAD, when I was not.. was a different kind of darkness in that mirror”.
Your response, same day: “It is so interesting that you bring up the mirror metaphor, I had never heard this before until just today… I would cry every time my dad would go on this tirade, because I am someone who cares so deeply for people, so that he accused me of the opposite made me feel so lost, made me wonder if I knew myself at all. I wonder if this created self doubt in you? and how you overcame/ are overcoming this self doubt? My dad to this day still very often misinterprets what I do and who I am and it hurts every time, he thinks I am selfish and is probably why I have fears of being selfish or narcissistic. It is scary when someone tells you that you are coming across a certain way that is unbeknownst to you, it makes me self conscious about how I do come across, which if I let myself overthink this I become awkward in social situations“-
– It hurts every time a parent accuses a child of being a bad person. Such a repeated accusation causes a child to cry, (to) feel so lost… self doubt… self conscious… overthink… become awkward in social situations.
A child needs be SEEN by a parent as a good person. Without that, the child (and into adulthood) is afraid to look further into oneself and see perhaps.. more bad things, more evidence of being a bad person, and the child/ adult is afraid of showing to others, in social situations, evidence of being a bad person. So we overthink, we doubt ourselves, we are scared to express because.. something bad may become visible for others to see.
This all fits with the quote I started this post with: “As my natural self is revealing itself, the conflict is the thought ‘stop this is too much expression!’“- too much expression because some of it may be evidence that you are a bad person..?
Maybe all the seeing the unknown unknowns that you mentioned yesterday starts with seeing- with conviction- that you are a good person.
anita
September 25, 2024 at 1:34 pm #438373seaturtleParticipantDear Anita,
” excellent insight, I am impressed!”
– Thank you for acknowledging this as an insight, it helps to remind myself, otherwise, sometimes insights come and go.
” I am thinking that to tap into/ to be One with Shakti, it takes trusting yourself to be a good person first, because you wouldn’t allow a bad person all that power and capability. I wouldn’t.”
This is a really good point I will continue to think about. What comes to mind immediately is that there are things I fear that I am, that I don’t want to be. But some of those things I am also unsure if they are true, or they are just what I have been told. Like F’s accusing me of being selfish, controlling and manipulative, all things that infact, he is. The things I watch out for in myself, because I don’t want to be them: selfishly controlling situations, not empathizing with others, not listening to others, thinking I know better/ superiority complex, or over-extending of myself to others emotional needs.
Even writing this I know that my awareness of it already makes it less likely I will be these things, but I think I worry more that I will accidentally be a bad person.. selfish, self righteous, rude, prideful/ greedy etc.
Maybe all the seeing the unknown unknowns that you mentioned yesterday starts with seeing- with conviction- that you are a good person.
– Eye opening and sad, is that I don’t have an initial instinct on how to see myself as more good. It does help to have people like K, sent to me from the universe to tell me. But, I do agree it has to truly come from me, cause it is easy to just not believe others opinions. I know I have good aspects, and I am optimistic I see myself as majorly good, a lot of the time, but definitely not fully.
Do you see yourself as fully good?
Seaturtle
September 25, 2024 at 2:16 pm #438374anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
“I think I worry more that I will accidentally be a bad person.. selfish, self righteous, rude, prideful/ greedy etc… I see myself as majorly good, a lot of the time, but definitely not fully. Do you see yourself as fully good?“-
-What is Seaturtle’s personal definitions of a majorly good person and of a fully good person?
anita
September 27, 2024 at 10:01 pm #438421HelcatParticipantHi Seaturtle
I’m sorry for the delay in replying. I’m just having a rough time at the moment.
Thank you for all of the excellent potty training tips! I will take them to heart. It does make sense that a child would answer no to do you want to potty. I didn’t think of that. Haha it’s true, kids do have a way of making you talk about these things.
On a side note, I think that it’s great that you’re getting this level of insight from your job about what parenting is like. I’m sure that if you choose to have children one day, you would be a great mother.
I’m glad to hear that you are trusting your intuition more. 😊
That’s lovely to hear that I reminded you of a conversation that you had with your grandfather. I think that some things are unknowable until we learn about them.
You definitely have the jist of it. I think that people who aren’t on automatic make a consistent effort to be more aware and learn more about things, and pay more attention to their own development which is all that can really be done. Of course, there are natural times when this lapses.
You strike me as a person who tries their best to always grow and learn. Someone who doesn’t like to live life on automatic. Yes, exactly! Even if we try hard sometimes we run up against a wall.
Well, in teaching and I’m sure in your job as a caregiver you learn that it is okay to make mistakes. It is how we learn. We can reflect on what went wrong and how to handle situations better in the future. There are many opportunities in life, as long as you keep asking for them. So you don’t need to worry as much about missing something.
I wonder though, do you sometimes worry something bad might happen?
It’s very kind of you to say that you learned from us! It seems to me like you’re already doing a good job of living your life as wisely as you can.
It does sound like an interesting book!
I think as well as things that we cannot control like circumstances, the effects of our choices on our lives are fascinating.
Love and best wishes! ❤️🙏
September 28, 2024 at 11:15 am #438425anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:“As my natural self is revealing itself, the conflict is the thought ‘stop this is too much expression!’“- I think that the wording too much means something bad, that therefore, something that shouldn’t be expressed.In a recent reply I quoted about shakti: “Shakti in Hinduism, is the ‘universal power‘ that underlies and sustains all existence… energy, ability, strength, effort, power, might, capability“, and I suggested that “to tap into/ to be One with Shakti, it takes trusting yourself to be a good person first, because you wouldn’t allow a bad person all that power and capability”.About my experience: for as long as I believed or heavily suspected, that I was a bad person, I was too troubled and confused to exercise power in my own life, too troubled to steer my own ship, so to speak. So, I let the ship (me) passively drift any which way the wind (other people and circumstances) took it.I desperately needed to know that I am a good person so to feel that I have the (moral) right to exercise power in my own life.The person that made me believe, or heavily suspect, that I was a bad person was my mother. On a regular basis, she accused me- in long, protracted, paranoid and histrionic sessions of accusations- of plotting to hurt her feelings and humiliate her. She accused me of planning what to say and do, weeks and months in advance, all for the (intentional) purpose of causing her emotional pain. No objections, explanations or denials on my part made her stop.Who plans and intentionally actualizes plans to cause pain to one’s mother, if not a bad person..?As I said, I tried to explain to her that there was no intention, no plan.. because I knew that there was no such intent or plan, but over time, I didn’t know– know. I wasn’t sure that she was wrong. I doubted myself. I became very careful about the words I said, or thought about saying, too anxious, too careful.The anxiety and Guilt (feeling like a bad person) that she instilled in me tormented me for most of my life. The harm done to me by her accusatory and histrionic sessions still lingers. I think of the majority of my life as a stolen life, stolen and held hostage by her.I couldn’t, wasn’t able to access Shakti= to become powerful in my own life, not for as long as I wasn’t able to peel the Guilty-Suspect-Label off of me. I waited and waited for her to give me the permission to live my own life (by telling me that I was a good person) long after I knew that I was still waiting. I gave her all that I could give her, money included, but never got the Good Person label from her. So, for the majority of my life, I drifted in a purgatory, drifting between heaven (waiting to be labeled Good) and hell (resisting being labeled Bad).Waiting.Back to you: “What comes to mind immediately is that there are things I fear that I am, that I don’t want to be. But some of those things I am also unsure if they are true, or they are just what I have been told. Like F’s accusing me of being selfish, controlling and manipulative“- it is possible, as it had been in my case, for a child who is 100% empathetic (good) with a parent, to become an unempathetic adult. I grew up to be.. not a good person with lots of people, sadly.I believe that you were not selfish, controlling, manipulative, etc., when it came to your father, but it is possible that you have been so with others, to one extent or another, at times.. is it possible?“I know I have good aspects, and I am optimistic I see myself as majorly good, a lot of the time, but definitely not fully. Do you see yourself as fully good?“- I currently see myself as a good person. I define a good person as a person who cares to do no harm, and to help people whenever possible.To view myself as a good person, I had to go back to the past and peel off the Guilty-Suspect-Label that my mother repeatedly and viciously placed on me, and then re-label everything and everyone: (1) my mother presented herself as a good person: no she was not a good person. To me, and to those most vulnerable to her, she was a bad person,(2) my mother presented me as a bad person: no I was not a bad person. I was as good a person to her as can be. My empathy was with her, I would have done anything to help her, and I did do all that I could.I grew up to be an angry person, and sometimes.. a bad person (judged by my harmful vocalized words and actions). I earned my good-person-label by repeatedly and intentionally correcting my behaviors (words said/ typed, and chosen actions) from Harmful to Helpful, best I can.(3) other people whom she accused of being bad people (everyone, sooner or later), many of them where better people than she was, and none of them was as bad to me as she was.These days, whenever I notice that I think/ feel judgmental of people, I address the situation and whenever, wherever possible and appropriate, I shift from judgment => to empathy. I don’t view myself as a bad person for thoughts that occur to me, or feelings that pass through me, no matter how.. “ugly”, because I know that I don’t choose them.I hold myself responsible for what I say, type and do, not for unchosen thoughts and feelings. When I find myself thinking/ feeling what may lead to harmful words or actions, I redirect my attention => to thoughts and feelings that are congruent with helping, not with harming.Using words from the title of your thread, I’d say: Surrender to the fact that you are not fully/ perfectly good, correct the ways in which you harm others (something we should all do), and accessing Shakti– continue to heal yourself and, like a song says: “Heal the world- Make it a better place- For you and for me and the entire human race” (Heal the World).anitaSeptember 28, 2024 at 11:21 am #438426anitaParticipantRe-submitting, trying to create spaces.. may not work:Dear Seaturtle:“As my natural self is revealing itself, the conflict is the thought ‘stop this is too much expression!’“- I think that the wording too much means something bad, that therefore, something that shouldn’t be expressed.In a recent reply I quoted about shakti: “Shakti in Hinduism, is the ‘universal power‘ that underlies and sustains all existence… energy, ability, strength, effort, power, might, capability“, and I suggested that “to tap into/ to be One with Shakti, it takes trusting yourself to be a good person first, because you wouldn’t allow a bad person all that power and capability”.About my experience: for as long as I believed or heavily suspected, that I was a bad person, I was too troubled and confused to exercise power in my own life, too troubled to steer my own ship, so to speak. So, I let the ship (me) passively drift any which way the wind (other people and circumstances) took it.I desperately needed to know that I am a good person so to feel that I have the (moral) right to exercise power in my own life.The person that made me believe, or heavily suspect, that I was a bad person was my mother. On a regular basis, she accused me- in long, protracted, paranoid and histrionic sessions of accusations- of plotting to hurt her feelings and humiliate her. She accused me of planning what to say and do, weeks and months in advance, all for the (intentional) purpose of causing her emotional pain. No objections, explanations or denials on my part made her stop.Who plans and intentionally actualizes plans to cause pain to one’s mother, if not a bad person..?As I said, I tried to explain to her that there was no intention, no plan.. because I knew that there was no such intent or plan, but over time, I didn’t know– know. I wasn’t sure that she was wrong. I doubted myself. I became very careful about the words I said, or thought about saying, too anxious, too careful.The anxiety and Guilt (feeling like a bad person) that she instilled in me tormented me for most of my life. The harm done to me by her accusatory and histrionic sessions still lingers. I think of the majority of my life as a stolen life, stolen and held hostage by her.I couldn’t, wasn’t able to access Shakti= to become powerful in my own life, not for as long as I wasn’t able to peel the Guilty-Suspect-Label off of me. I waited and waited for her to give me the permission to live my own life (by telling me that I was a good person) long after I knew that I was still waiting. I gave her all that I could give her, money included, but never got the Good Person label from her. So, for the majority of my life, I drifted in a purgatory, drifting between heaven (waiting to be labeled Good) and hell (resisting being labeled Bad).Waiting.Back to you: “What comes to mind immediately is that there are things I fear that I am, that I don’t want to be. But some of those things I am also unsure if they are true, or they are just what I have been told. Like F’s accusing me of being selfish, controlling and manipulative“- it is possible, as it had been in my case, for a child who is 100% empathetic (good) with a parent, to become an unempathetic adult. I grew up to be.. not a good person with lots of people, sadly.I believe that you were not selfish, controlling, manipulative, etc., when it came to your father, but it is possible that you have been so with others, to one extent or another, at times.. is it possible?“I know I have good aspects, and I am optimistic I see myself as majorly good, a lot of the time, but definitely not fully. Do you see yourself as fully good?“- I currently see myself as a good person. I define a good person as a person who cares to do no harm, and to help people whenever possible.To view myself as a good person, I had to go back to the past and peel off the Guilty-Suspect-Label that my mother repeatedly and viciously placed on me, and then re-label everything and everyone: (1) my mother presented herself as a good person: no she was not a good person. To me, and to those most vulnerable to her, she was a bad person,(2) my mother presented me as a bad person: no I was not a bad person. I was as good a person to her as can be. My empathy was with her, I would have done anything to help her, and I did do all that I could.I grew up to be an angry person, and sometimes.. a bad person (judged by my harmful vocalized words and actions). I earned my good-person-label by repeatedly and intentionally correcting my behaviors (words said/ typed, and chosen actions) from Harmful to Helpful, best I can.(3) other people whom she accused of being bad people (everyone, sooner or later), many of them where better people than she was, and none of them was as bad to me as she was.These days, whenever I notice that I think/ feel judgmental of people, I address the situation and whenever, wherever possible and appropriate, I shift from judgment => to empathy. I don’t view myself as a bad person for thoughts that occur to me, or feelings that pass through me, no matter how.. “ugly”, because I know that I don’t choose them.I hold myself responsible for what I say, type and do, not for unchosen thoughts and feelings. When I find myself thinking/ feeling what may lead to harmful words or actions, I redirect my attention => to thoughts and feelings that are congruent with helping, not with harming.Using words from the title of your thread, I’d say: Surrender to the fact that you are not fully/ perfectly good, correct the ways in which you harm others (something we should all do), and accessing Shakti– continue to heal yourself and, like a song says: “Heal the world- Make it a better place- For you and for me and the entire human race” (Heal the World).anitaSeptember 28, 2024 at 12:40 pm #438427seaturtleParticipantDear Anita,
What is Seaturtle’s personal definitions of a majorly good person and of a fully good person?
– This is a good question. What comes to mind now, is that a majorly good person is one with good intentions but doesn’t always get that across, or that they think their intentions are good, but are missing some information and their good intentions are misguided, causing bad outcomes. Whereas a fully good person is completely in line with their third eye, and therefore their intentions are always pure, never contaminated with bias or selfish wants. A fully good person always effects the environment neutrally or positively, a majorly good person can sometimes have negative effects on others and the world.
“to tap into/ to be One with Shakti, it takes trusting yourself to be a good person first, because you wouldn’t allow a bad person all that power and capability”.
-I have gone back to this more than once, since you said it. Even had a conversation with K about it, where I saw he struggles with it too. He phrased it as when he receives praise he doubts the validity of it, questioning that they actually see the whole picture, and I related with this deeply. What is interesting though, is what seems obvious to me is I am this way because my dad did not treat me as if I was a good person, he was skeptic of me and I was disciplined and criticized all the time. But for K, he seems to have the same overlying issue as me, doubting his goodness, but he didn’t have a critical parent, his mom over gave praise to him to an extent to where he now wonders ‘what is real praise and what is exaggerated’ because there is no way he deserves that much (his thoughts). How can two different types of parents, both result in a hard time receiving praise or seeing yourself as good? What is the balance of praise and constructive criticism that leads to a healthy self esteem (seeing self as good). I ask because I want to balance myself out, and I also want to raise a balanced child one day.
The person that made me believe, or heavily suspect, that I was a bad person was my mother. On a regular basis, she accused me- in long, protracted, paranoid and histrionic sessions of accusations- of plotting to hurt her feelings and humiliate her. She accused me of planning what to say and do
– Our experiences are so similar. I am thankful to have someone like you who is farther in the healing process to help me!
Who plans and intentionally actualizes plans to cause pain to one’s mother, if not a bad person..?
– good point.
I wasn’t sure that she was wrong. I doubted myself. I became very careful about the words I said, or thought about saying, too anxious, too careful.
– this brings me back to your comment about my desires to run away or even leading to self harm, wanting to rid myself and surroundings of this “bad person” that I had no control over, since I had no idea I was doing this and felt out of control of my own intentions.
I think of the majority of my life as a stolen life, stolen and held hostage by her.
– I deeply empathize with you.
I waited and waited for her to give me the permission to live my own life (by telling me that I was a good person) long after I knew that I was still waiting. I gave her all that I could give her, money included, but never got the Good Person label from her.
– This is where I can be thankful, and one of the ways my experience breaks away from yours. This anchor weighs/weighed, less for me after 24 years. After I got farther from F, and he saw I was happy away from him there is a sliver of understanding that I am good without him, but he definitely still sees me as very flawed. My way of life doesn’t make sense to him and he still laughs at me. I told him about my adventures in colorado and meeting K, my plans to travel, and he just laughs at me because I am living life “so differently” “why would you work at a cafe you are way too over qualified” “you are a nanny? you spend time with kids for fun? what a waste of your time, hahaha” But then he says he is glad I am happy.. which I think I believe. I still feel like he sees me as less than others/ ill-intentioned on accident/ skeptical of me (as you would be of a bad person). It’s like he doesn’t see me as bad anymore, but he sees me as something else now… not intelligent, lazy (since I am not resume building/ climbing a corporate ladder), not reliable (asking me if I need help all the time as if I can’t support myself), doesn’t trust my decisions until I just make them and he sees the benefits way later, but this still builds me no reporte.
for the majority of my life, I drifted in a purgatory, drifting between heaven (waiting to be labeled Good) and hell (resisting being labeled Bad).– when you say the majority of your life, how long ago did you begin peeling this label off? is it off?I believe that you were not selfish, controlling, manipulative, etc., when it came to your father, but it is possible that you have been so with others, to one extent or another, at times.. is it possible?– I do believe I was this way with my sisters and friends when I was little. Taking advantage of their minds being easily controllable to what I wanted to do. How F treats weak minds. F takes full advantage of weak minds.. I don’t trust him. I am having a moment right now where I am realizing how deeply I don’t trust him in this way.(1) my mother presented herself as a good person: no she was not a good person. To me, and to those most vulnerable to her, she was a bad person,– This is what I mean by not trusting F, As I typed “I don’t trust him,” I saw him as bad. Is it possible to see someone as partially bad and good? or is it one or the other?I currently see myself as a good person. I define a good person as a person who cares to do no harm, and to help people whenever possible.-This makes me feel like I am good 🙂“(2) my mother presented me as a bad person: no I was not a bad person. I was as good a person to her as can be. My empathy was with her, I would have done anything to help her, and I did do all that I could.”“I earned my good-person-label by repeatedly and intentionally correcting my behaviors (words said/ typed, and chosen actions) from Harmful to Helpful, best I can.”– Interesting here is I am not sure if my dad presents me as bad or good. I think he tries to present me as good but he sees me as bad.. He tells his friends stories of me that are fabricated.. only the parts he thinks that are good, but I am not sure he believes what he is saying when he tells them. That’s so painful to me, and how he made me feel, like he was trying sooo hard to see me as good but just couldn’t because that is how bad I was.. barely redeemable :/ I feel sad at this moment.– I did do all that I could too, my intentions were so pure from my perspective, and I always tried to correct myself to his needs. Truly did all I could do too.-This is a hard conversation to have for me and I suspect you too, thank you for opening up wounds to help me. Anita you are fantastic ❤️– “from Harmful to Helpful” I can see myself doing this in my life now 😉 I didn’t want the negative energy around me to be because of me, so I started by noticing after I said something that it was contaminating to the environment. Then I got better and started to notice before it even came out of my mouth, and now I think I am getting to the point of changing my thoughts to begin with 🙂 This is making me realize how I have grown away from certain friends, because as I challenged myself to face my unhelpful commentary, I saw others, and as I put effort to avoid my own I avoided others. Pushed negativity out of my life even if that meant people :/-Even at the cost of hurting my heart temporarily I pushed away “badness” and strove to be more positive and helpful. A quality of a good person 🙂 I also still want to help others be more positive even if it is at the cost of me exposing myself to it.. now is this a quality of a good person or is it self destructive to expose myself to at all? My friend P, I still haven’t spoken to in person and I suspect she thinks I am incapable of supporting others, because I distanced myself from her negativity that I know is still there just based on brief texting conversation. Maybe I should write her a letter, that makes me feel less anxious than being in her presence and feeling like I need to defend myself :/ I am just now learning to defend myself to myself that I am good! let alone others.I shift from judgment => to empathy.– I have been attempting this for a while now and found lots of success and a shift in my energy from anxious to loving. But there is a current situations I am dealing with that I am finding a road block between judgement -> empathy. Long story as short as I can; The parents of the child I nanny are separating. I found out three weeks ago, they sat me down and he confessed to being an alcoholic. The mom is extremely empathetic, and has asked him to go to rehab since she found out, she found out the day they got home with their little girl from the N.I.C.U. on breathing tubes as an infant. This father has made me feel uncomfortable more than once, subtly, with comments that he feels a connection to me (conversationally, being too vulnerable with me about his issues and marriage problems).. I have distanced myself and set boundaries, that he did abide by after telling him I did not want anything from him at all and my loyalties were to his wife. He works 25 hours a week for a tech company that removes medical waste, his wife is with make-a-wish, very high up over 40 hours a week. She got a job opportunity she has been pursuing for months with Save the Children, she is incredibly passionate about since she was 15. She was called for an interview that was likely to lead to a job opportunity, and that was the same week her husband had an alcohol experience that was intense enough for her to make him leave the house. Only to be with their girl under supervision. As she got offered her dream job to help world wide children, he then decides (after being asked for two years and refusing) to go to rehab. Leaving her a single mom near impossible to accept this new job. I just found out she turned it down. I have been working extra hours for them and been as emotionally supportive as possible as the mom bends backwards to decide to be in her dream career or a present mom. I feel upset and angry with this man. I could say very judgemental things I am sure are not hard to guess. He self destructs and decides to go to rehab all when his wife was about to get her dream job, and he has the audacity to act like he is the victim. I am really struggling to have any empathy for him at all and in my heart is pure judgement. I don’t like how this makes me feel and I suspect it is a test from the universe to practice an intense degree of empathy, that will make me a better person. But, and I wasn’t planning on bringing this here, I think you may be able to help me find some empathy? or guide me to how you have found empathy in the hardest situations?When I find myself thinking/ feeling what may lead to harmful words or actions, I redirect my attention => to thoughts and feelings that are congruent with helping, not with harming.-I even found myself tempted to do harm by not caring much about making his facetimes with the little girl happen, as they can only happen with me there since the wife and him are not speaking. I stopped myself from this behavior, but my judgements have clearly not been tamed with empathy.SeaturtleSeptember 28, 2024 at 12:44 pm #438428seaturtleParticipantDear Anita,
As that ended on a difficult note I wanted to come back to empathy and positivity as best I can.
I am so thankful that I have you in my life. And I am thankful that life is providing me with opportunities to become my best self. I believe my intentions are good, and that yours are too. I believe this is a difficult challenge I am facing is not easy for me and will have an equivalent amount of growth for me on the other side 🙂
Seaturtle
September 28, 2024 at 5:34 pm #438430anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle: I read parts and will attentively read, re-read and reply Sun morning.
anita
September 29, 2024 at 10:34 am #438436anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
“What comes to mind now, is that a majorly good person is one with good intentions but doesn’t always get that across,“- good people have good intentions, but good intentions not getting across can be a failure on the part of the receiver: misunderstanding, inaccurate projections, and such.
“or that they think their intentions are good, but are missing some information and their good intentions are misguided, causing bad outcomes“- this is why it is important to ask questions and to make educated decisions, decisions on what to say/ type/ do, not based on unchecked assumptions. When you try to help a person in a particular situation, and you feel that you understand the situation, ask yourself: is there a different angle to look at the situation? Is there a bigger picture that I am not yet seeing?
“Whereas a fully good person is completely in line with their third eye, and therefore their intentions are always pure, never contaminated with bias or selfish wants. A fully good person always effects the environment neutrally or positively“- I challenge this and say: there is no such person, a fully good person, not a single one. This is a description of a saint (a fictional character, including those labeled saints by the Catholic church), or of a god that’s made in the image of a perfect human (which doesn’t exist). No one is a fully good person.
“a majorly good person can sometimes have negative effects on others and the world“- all majorly good people have negative effects on others and the world, knowingly and not knowingly. Majorly good people use plastic and then placing it in the recycle bin, they believe that they are doing the right thing.. not knowing that plastic does not get recycled and so, they are adding waste and harm to the world.
Everyone who votes in elections, adds support to politicians who have positive, but also negative effects on the world. This is why many vote for the “lesser of two evils”: they knowingly vote for a candidate who adds harm to the world.
Being a majorly good person is about minimizing harm whenever, wherever possible (not avoiding or preventing it all together, which is an impossibility).
“my dad did not treat me as if I was a good person, he was skeptic of me and I was disciplined and criticized all the time. But for K, he seems to have the same overlying issue as me, doubting his goodness, but he didn’t have a critical parent, his mom over gave praise to him to an extent to where he now wonders ‘what is real praise and what is exaggerated’“- his mother praised him, he believed her but found out- through interactions with peers/ other people- that her praise was exaggerated or untrue altogether. Examples, if she told him something like: you are the most intelligent boy in the world! Or you are the most handsome boy in the world! And then a teacher gave him a C while a dozen peers received Bs and As, or when a girl he was interested in rejected his advances and chose another boy.. then there’s dissonance in his brain, thinking something like: if I really am the most intelligent, why didn’t I get a B or an A?
“How can two different types of parents, both result in a hard time receiving praise or seeing yourself as good?“- your father criticized you, his mother built him up so that (unintentionally) he would be taken down by society.
“What is the balance of praise and constructive criticism that leads to a healthy self esteem (seeing self as good). I ask because I want to balance myself out, and I also want to raise a balanced child one day“- for example, instead of telling a child generalities like: you are the most intelligent person in the world, or the most handsome, say something specific, like: I like how you figured out this math problem, good job! Or I like your posture, how you stand with your back straight and shoulders back!
“This is where I can be thankful, and one of the ways my experience breaks away from yours… My way of life doesn’t make sense to him and he still laughs at me… ‘why would you work at a cafe you are way too over qualified’… But then he says he is glad I am happy.. which I think I believe… It’s like he doesn’t see me as bad anymore, but he sees me as something else now… not intelligent, lazy (since I am not resume building/ climbing a corporate ladder)…“- I am glad that your father no longer conducts house-cleaning-sessions or the likes of it and that he mellowed down, good thing. But his earlier messages, the you-are-a-bad-person message has not been removed from your brain just because he doesn’t repeat that message anymore. No longer hearing that message is a great relief though, and it is helpful.
“when you say the majority of your life, how long ago did you begin peeling this label off? is it off?“- it was a long process. I’d say the process began in 2011 when I attended my first quality psychotherapy. The label is off and has been off on a regular, reliable basis in the last few months. It doesn’t mean that I don’t question my words and actions in regard to the Helpful vs Harmful factor.
“F takes full advantage of weak minds.. I don’t trust him. I am having a moment right now where I am realizing how deeply I don’t trust him in this way“- a profound moment.“This is what I mean by not trusting F, As I typed ‘I don’t trust him,’ I saw him as bad. Is it possible to see someone as partially bad and good? or is it one or the other?“- I think that yes, it is possible to see someone as partially bad and good. My mother was good to people and animals she fed and helped, people and animals who weren’t around her long-enough to be harmed. In their experience, she was a good person, and I can’t (and won’t) take it away from her.“I am not sure if my dad presents me as bad or good. I think he tries to present me as good but he sees me as bad.. I feel sad at this moment”– oh, so he still expresses to you the message that you were/ are a bad person..!“This is a hard conversation to have for me and I suspect you too, thank you for opening up wounds to help me. Anita you are fantastic ❤️”- thank you for your empathy and kindness, ❤️ back to you, Fantastic Seaturtle!“‘from Harmful to Helpful’ I can see myself doing this in my life now… I also still want to help others be more positive even if it is at the cost of me exposing myself to it.. now is this a quality of a good person or is it self destructive to expose myself to at all?“- it is self-destructive to allow others to destroy you, if that’s what’s happening, so no: it’s not a quality of a good person (it’s a quality of a wanna-be saint, I say).“My friend P, I still haven’t spoken to in person and I suspect she thinks I am incapable of supporting others, because I distanced myself from her negativity“- good thing, to protect yourself from her negativity.“there is a current situations I am dealing with that I am finding a road block between judgement -> empathy. Long story as short as I can; The parents of the child I nanny are separating. I found out three weeks ago, they sat me down and he confessed to being an alcoholic…I think you may be able to help me find some empathy? or guide me to how you have found empathy in the hardest situations?“- he is in pain, he is struggling too. Expressed judgment will make him a worse person (worse father, worse ex-husband, etc.), not a better person. Of course, all practical and legal efforts need to be made so to protect others from his harmful behaviors. It takes both: expressed empathy and setting limits and boundaries!“I even found myself tempted to do harm by not caring much about making his facetimes with the little girl happen, as they can only happen with me there since the wife and him are not speaking. I stopped myself from this behavior, but my judgements have clearly not been tamed with empathy“-if he abuses her (or you) in any way during those facetime sessions, definitely don’t make them happen. Otherwise, it’s not your call to prevent him from facetime with his daughter.“I am so thankful that I have you in my life. And I am thankful that life is providing me with opportunities to become my best self. I believe my intentions are good, and that yours are too. I believe this is a difficult challenge I am facing is not easy for me and will have an equivalent amount of growth for me on the other side “- you are welcome, thank you, and perfectly said (it’s possible to be.. temporarily perfect 😉)!
anita
-
AuthorPosts
Though I run this site, it is not mine. It's ours. It's not about me. It's about us. Your stories and your wisdom are just as meaningful as mine. 