Dear Seaturtle:

“In high school… I was ignored, they would stop whispering once I came over, they would not pass the ball to me even if I was part of the play…They made me feel awkward and I was UNSEEN completely. Then I would go home to my dad who also could not see me”- this was a painful experience for you, quite traumatic for a teenager to be excluded socially. I am sorry that you went through this.

“I needed therapy, being unseen is, I believe, genuinely dangerous.“- what an original, powerful way to put it. And you are right.. the violent things that some people do after being unseen for too long.

“What makes it all worse is I had no idea they thought I ‘tattled,’ I had no idea why they went from friends to bullies… This makes me feel validated that they were not helpful replies. I came here to feel seen and those responses made me feel the opposite, but I didn’t know why and thought maybe my concerns were too minuscule to be acknowledged”-

– you didn’t know why..  I always want to know the why-s: it helps to know:

In your chosen title of your first thread, you asked for help: “Please help me“, and you added in the title: “my mind hasn’t rested in 8 months“. You assertively and clearly stated what you needed and wanted: help so that your tired mind can rest. Instead, you received condemnation, you were accused of being selfish, greedy, unappreciative and unreasonable (accusations that were not true):  “It appears that you have met a gentle kind man…  Yet this is not enough for you. you want to have your sense of self also massaged & pampered by him. Maybe you could swap him for someone who alternates between shallowly love bombing you and ghosting you!… No-one person can fulfill all our different needs all of the time..!“- my goodness, for crying out loud … Basically, you were bullied on your first thread.

Why? Because the person replying to you jumped to conclusions, that is assumed things about you without supportive evidence, and feeling angry at you.. expressed it clearly, never to reconsider, revisit the thread (within a reasonable time) and apologize. I have never, in all of the .. about 8 years on tiny buddha, commented on the replies of others, but if I was a participant at the time, I should have- would have- I hope (!)  stood up for you and against your (thread) bully.

At the same time, I need to hold myself accountable for what I would hold others accountable for: I need to do-no-harm to the people I choose to reply to: to Help, not to Harm. There are replies that I submitted in the past that I regret, and I am way more careful now- than I was before- to the principle of do no harm.

“Can two insecure parents raise a secure child?“- I don’t think so. But I’d say that two insecure parents can do their best to limit the physical and verbal expressions of their insecurity.

“Being insecure is a place I really do not like to be, my ground literally shakes and I feel paralyzed in my abilities to decide and even socialize. I want to be secure, and I know there will always be doses of insecurity in life but I do wish I was more sure of myself than I am right now”- it takes a village, like the saying goes. Let’s help each other best we can to feel more secure… in the insecure world we live in.

“My dad came to where I live this weekend because he had a golf tournament with some friends… This weekend I only got a small hour or so with him alone and in that small time he got teary eyed again, I could tell he was trying to hide it, and he told me he was proud of me. He genuinely asked me questions about myself while actually genuinely listening, I feel he may be beginning to see me… I think he is beginning to unsee what he thought of me that I was selfish and egocentric. Does this all mean he is growing up from a narcissistic development stage of childhood?”-

-I don’t know for sure, of course. I know what it took for me to change and care about other people: lots of attention, introspection, effort.. work over time, way more than a moment of having teary eyes. In regard to him asking you questions and genuinely listening: notice that you saw him only for a small hour during what I imagine was a relaxing weekend for him. His behavior during that one hour, in those circumstances (a golf tournament with friends) is not an indication of how he’d behave in normal circumstances on the long-run. Also, if as part of his job, let’s say, he has experience in asking questions and listening (and appearing to be empathetic while listening).. he may have extended that skill to you, for the length of that one hour.

“I still though have a fear he will revert back and see me how he did up till a year ago“- if he is indeed stuck in an early childhood development stage and he didn’t have extended psychotherapy and he didn’t sincerely and thoroughly apologize to you, his daughter, for his misdeeds then I would, if I was you, expect him to continue to be who he’s been,

“How do I undo this trauma response? Is it simply how you would end a bad habit by forcing yourself to not give in until the reaction/impulse is gone?“- yes (except that it’s not simple): behave in a different, new way in spite of the impulse, or compulsion to act the old way. It takes practice and a gentle, realistic attitude: lessening and enduring emotional discomfort and not expecting perfect execution or linear progress.

“As I briefly brought up my partner’s mom giving him the silent treatment and withholding affection, I thought it may help to shed some light on what I know about him. He told me his mom would do this and that she made him feel like a bad kid morally as he grew up. She being very Christian made him feel this way…  He said he felt he had to constantly tell his mom he was not a bad kid, but felt “UNSEEN” by her, and still does…  My partner said his dad would emotionally dump on him and he felt like his therapist growing up”-

– My input: clearly he needs you to not (1) give him the silent treatment, or in any way suggest to him that he is a bad person (like his mother did and maybe still does), (2)  emotionally dump on him (like his father did and maybe still does).

Seems like your emotional problems within the relationship motivate him to stay in the relationship because of his compulsion perhaps to act like his mother’s=> his partner’s therapist.

Having read about how often you get distressed in his presence, feeling relief when not in his presence and contemplating breaking up with him, I think that taking an actual break (not a breakup) for long-enough will take care of your current heightened distress level and will open your heart and mind to feeling way better about him and about yourself.

You can’t solve problems when under heightened distress- except for the quick and relatively easy, short-term solution of breaking up with him. A solution I imagine that you will regret on the long-term. You need your distress level- over days and weeks- to get lower first, so that you can think clearly and come up with reasonable, effective long-term solutions.

anita

Dear Seaturtle: I will reply Wed morning (we are on the same time zone.. ).

anita

I thought it was very brave of you to take that step to reach out for advice again and share your truth about the experience.

Love and best wishes! ❤️🙏

Dear Seaturtle:

“This makes a lot of sense. Are these demands that are distressing to me, made up in my mind as part of the trauma response?“- yes, I think so.

“I had another thought/question, Since my partners dad emotionally dumped on him and he felt like his therapist, is this how my partner sees me when I am trying to communicate so that he can understand me? Cause it is how I feel sometimes when I try to express to him why I reacted a certain way, what the trauma behind it was, he will call these excuses which just lead to feeling further unseen and invalidated”-

– he may be taking on the role of a therapist with you, as he has dome with his father (based on his words in regard t his father), but he is a bad “therapist” if he refers to your sincere reasoning as excuses. Can you give me 1-2 examples of what you said that he referred to as an excuses?

“Does bringing awareness to these things initiate ending the cycle? It is very interesting because this holds very true, I don’t have these intense feelings directed at my dad anymore and now they are aimed at my partner. Since this distress was instilled in me for so long, can I fully heal from it? I wish I could just stop this now”-

– the dissociated/ removed-from-awareness feelings in regard to your father need to be brought back to awareness, to one extent or another, so to undo the grasp these feelings have on your boyfriend, so to speak.

Love back to you and thank you!

* I will probably not be able to reply further until tomorrow, so please take your time replying to this post.

anita

Dear Seaturtle:

So far in your thread I focused on you, your childhood and how your past childhood experience affects your current relationship with N. You described N so positively that I didn’t think of looking at him, his childhood etc., until I read yesterday: “when I try to express to him why I reacted a certain way, what the trauma behind it was, he will call these excuses which just lead to feeling further unseen and invalidated” (Oct 18).

And so, I went back to your first thread and read through your posts on both threads. In your 4th sentence, original post, July 29, 2023, you wrote: “he was late for the first date, but I didn’t mind.. since it’s not like he knew who he was being late for, lol, my logic anyway”.

Fast forward in the relationship.. it’s still not like he knows who he was- and still is- late for.

Back to your original post: “our third date he accidentally stood me up”- you excused him being late as an accident, but it was not an accident: “Him being late to dates is a common argument we have… he is late which.. at least once every two weeks or so, if not more“.

“To him he is on time 80% of the time and I should accept that, but that’s way easier said than done, I cant just turn off the trigger or I would. But he thinks I should just be mentally stronger, like he seems to be“-

– his version of mental strength is what I call the Teflon Mind (TM) : Teflon causes nothing to STICK to cookware. The Teflon Mind doesn’t allow anything to stick to it, anything that may be distressing to consider, that is.

This is the difference between the two of you: you let things in, you let them stick enough to analyze them, so to understand better.

“My partner is supportive of me seeking therapy but does not believe in it… I have tried many times to tell him the benefits of therapy… so you can understand yourself. But he will not go to couples therapy with me”- the TM does not want to understand itself; any opportunity to understand (himself or you)- if it feels distressing to him- will slide off him like oil slides off Teflon.

“I am not sure he sees what makes me special as opposed to another girl who’s pretty, good awareness, and fun… He doesn’t tell me how he feels about me, and when I ask him he says superficial things…  I want him to tell me he loves things about me that make me ME… I want to explode and just be like “DO YOU SEE ME like do you actually see my spirit and soul over here exposed to you and walking in the world”-

– your father didn’t see you and (not or) your boyfriend doesn’t see you, not beyond the superficial, like you suspect. Your feeling UNSEEN has its roots in childhood (as is true to many people) but it is also happening presently in your relationship. I don’t think that it’s anything personal:  the TM does not allow seeing beyond the surface when it comes to emotions and mental health.

“When I try to talk about trauma with him I am not always comfortable to do so, because he doesn’t relate“- he doesn’t relate to what slides off him like oil off  Teflon.

“.. and if it follows an argument and I am explaining why something is a trigger, he calls my response ‘excuses’ and that is the most invalidating thing, but also makes me wonder if they are just excuses“-

– an excuse means an “attempt to lessen the blame attaching to (a fault or offense)” (online dictionary): so he is saying that you telling him about what triggers you is an offense against him, or a fault in who you are.

“after me sharing my trigger response after the ticking he asked me ‘why don’t I have triggers like you do, do I have no trauma?’“- he is blaming you for having triggers, stating that he has trauma too, but he has no triggers (being that they slide off, I say), so there is something wrong (faulty, blameworthy) about you, is the message, isn’t it?

“I get this feeling of unfamiliarity often, when alcohol or marijuana is involved it does prolong the feeling and make me feel more trapped but I have the same feeling completely sober as well. This feeling of disconnect that feels like an awkward unfamiliarity and I am the only one who notices it.”- this IS the experience of living with a TM.. unless you are equally a TM yourself. and therefore comfortable with unfamiliarity.. having adjusted well to being UNSEEN

“There were several times while I lived with him that I would be having a trigger response that lead to a panic attack and I would go into our big closet with the lights off and sit on the ground, this helps me to calm down. He would come in and sit next to me. He also has pulled me out of a panic attack by whispering in my ear ‘be nice to my girl,’ directly communicating with the voice in my head telling me I was unseen and uncared for”- this is nice on his part, he can be supportive at times… as long as your distress does not distress him.

“But lately he doesn’t grab me or hug me as much like that, and has said he feels he is always consoling me and sometimes does not have the patience to do so and instead feels falsely blamed for my pain”- in your shoes, hearing this, I would feel guilty about sharing with him anything that would make him feel badly.

“He told me his mom would do this and that she made him feel like a bad kid morally as he grew up”- I suppose he Teflon-ed her message that he was a bad kid, adjusting to her by developing a TM. It is not his fault to have adjusted to her this way, as well as to his father.

The title of this thread is: “Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships”- you fear being unseen and you really are unseen

The title of your first thread: “Please help me, my mind hasn’t rested in 8 months“. You ended the original post on that thread with: “thanks for reading and please anything can help me especially advice or someone in a similar boat” (July 29).

More than 2 months later, I am responding today: first, seems to me that everyone is traumatized to one extent of another, evident in our very troubled world. Second, we adjust differently to childhood emotional trauma: I was always into looking deeply into things, wanting to shed light into the darkness and SEE. I experienced positive excitement when I saw/ understood something that I didn’t see before. Therefore, I was motivated to do it again and again, to shed more and more light into the darkness and feel positively excited yet again. Other people growing up, when light was shed on a situation, they felt more distress than before.. they were negatively excited, so they turned off the lights, hence the Teflon Mind.

Some people want to talk about emotions and understand better; others don’t.. or can’t, it’s not something that they are able to endure. So, when growing up with a TM, or being in a relationship with one, you get to feel alone and disconnected in their presence.. you become inhibited and controlled around them, your mind can’t rest. You hold your breath.. and you get the chance to exhale and rest.. when they are not around.

anita