Home→Forums→Emotional Mastery→The phenomenon of “helping someone excessively can make them turn against you”
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January 13, 2024 at 7:55 am #426931anitaParticipant
Dear Arden:
Good to read from you first thing this cold, cold – (minus) 14 degrees celsius Saturday morning (here). I am glad that you found comfort in my reply. I am fine considering the cold and some other concerns. Like I wrote in my reply to you on Dec 24: ” the distance that matters most in the way we experience life is the short distance in-between our ears”, and I am keeping this distance as warm and as pleasant as possible for me, one day at a time. I hope you do the same.
Communicating with you, Arden, helps me keep that short distance warm, pleasant and interesting, so, you are welcome and thank you!
anita
February 24, 2024 at 9:02 am #428125ArdenParticipantIt seems like you also live close to the north pole, a bit. But not sure. I hope you have had a nice Jan and February. I appreciate your responds a lot, thank you for your understanding and companionship.
Yes, I have been realizing more and more how others are able to ASK, without guilt, or shame. I try to make sure I am not stepping on anyone, upsetting anyone or using my credits within people. I learned to think that I have a limited amount of credit in people and always tried to act upon that so that I wouldn’t lose anyone outside of my control. It’s even like “use your resources cautiously so that you would have them when you most need it” type of mentality. I do that with people, money, everything. The only thing I do not act accordingly with this mentality is myself and my own resources, my attention, my emotions and so on.
However, seeing that how others can carelessly ask for stuff, trivial or important stuff, they do not care about the credit they have within people. They just ask, act, live. Some of them do that in a spoiled way and that has driven me crazy as you saw in my previous posts.
I also always acted with a passive thought in my mind that is “resource can be limited, be careful“. Therefore, when I do have access to resources, money or any food/stuff I am buying for the house, I always think with a “you might not be able to find this thing again, or in this price, so act accordingly, with caution.” Even years before we had this global crisis and war, I had my mind on stocking stuff within my financial power that time in my house so that I would be safe, for another 2 months maybe.
This is something I am realizing clearly now. I am in a country with less inflation, so stocking stuff doesn’t seem too rational to me and I might also need the money regarding the job situations. So when I stop myself from buying that extra detergent, I realize my old habits of seeing resources and money. How that has affected me in every possible way. My mind practically had a war and a global crisis at all times.
Also the friend of me here, which was the reason I posted this specific post has randomly tried to give me a toothpaste when I was visiting. She founded the tube in her bag, instead of taking it to the bathroom, she offered it to me. I kindly rejected, said “oh why would you, put it there and use it, I also have it and can purchase an-nytime.”, then she commented on that saying “you never accept things easily, just accept it for god’s sake” and went to the bathroom to put it there instead.
I already knew that feature of mine, but it got me thinking even more. Instead of instantly rejecting a random thing that was offered to me, why my first instinct is not accepting? Those people that I have resented for being spoiled, and some of them I still do have those types of feelings towards, their first instinct would have been to accept it. Either it is money, products, anything.
Thank you for rationalizing or better yet, appreciating/accepting my feelings in the previous post.
It feels like I am even more closer to my own-self here far away from practically everyone else that has a big space in my mind till today, and my own-self actually feels like the moments of my passions and good feelings I had in my childhood on my own. Those little moments that I was in my head, living the moment on my own. Those feel like the moments that I was my authentic self the most.
I would wish that we could have came here together at the same time with my partner as I wouldn’t worry about finances or anything else this much, but as a result of my solitude here for months (already 5 months here alone, it’s crazy how time passes), I am observing myself and my past a lot. And I can really feel how these job crises and other emotional hardships of moving here alone has contributed to my confidence, I can feel the slight changes each day and how it actually feels to actually build a life with small steps. The only problem we have with my partner is slight jealousy stuff that don’t get bigger (and i was the one being jealous), financials since i don’t feel safe and he doesn’t have a job at the moment and still applies, and he gets depressive when he gets rejected by each job. I sometimes get a bit afraid if I am investing my financials and health into him in the right way.
I try to save up more for any type of expenses that might arise from the fact that we still haven’t evacuated the flat with the lawsuit and have paid for many stuff in the past 5 months, he also paid as well but maybe not as much as I did? I sometimes stop and think if I did good or not. Can I trust him that way, would he put the same effort as myself and work, earn and actually make me feel better about all the stuff we have faced. It’s like, I am putting myself at risk but with intentions that he would be worth doing that. So far, I don’t think he would use me. But I guess I have a built in fear about being used. He doesn’t have that, so I tried to explain my anxiety on financials. He made his applications even more aggressively afterwards and tried to report me in some way how he’s also trying. He understood and maybe found himself in the wrong and trying better. These types of thoughts make me feel stingy, or weird, but all I am trying to do is to make sure that I am not being used. I start having expectations of him earning more than me once he comes (hence the skills he has) and therefore I can feel more secure in the long run.
February 24, 2024 at 12:42 pm #428127anitaParticipantDear Arden:
So good to read from you! To be focused enough to attentively read and reply, I’ll have to wait to tomorrow, Sun morning (it is Sat, shortly after noon here).Take care!
anita
February 25, 2024 at 10:22 am #428139anitaParticipantDear Arden:
You are welcome and thank you for your appreciation, you are very kind!
“It seems like you also live close to the north pole, a bit“- about 3,331 kilometers from the north pole.
“Yes, I have been realizing more and more how others are able to ASK, without guilt, or shame… They just ask, act, live… I also always acted with a passive thought in my mind that is ‘resource can be limited, be careful‘… ‘you might not be able to find this thing again, or in this price, so act accordingly, with caution.’ Even years before we had this global crisis and war, I had my mind on stocking stuff… I realize my old habits of seeing resources and money. How that has affected me in every possible way. My mind practically had a war and a global crisis at all times”-
-when we grow up in lack, in the absence of what need, we grow inward, more than we grow outward, meaning we minimize ourselves so to need less, so to get by with less. Asking other people for stuff is an outward expression; we don’t ask (I am similar to you, not asking for stuff!), we don’t assert ourselves, we try to accommodate others at our own expense.
“Also the friend of me here… offered (toothpaste) to me. I kindly rejected… then she commented on that saying ‘you never accept things easily, just accept it for god’s sake’… it got me thinking even more. Instead of instantly rejecting a random thing that was offered to me, why my first instinct is not accepting? Those people that I have resented for being spoiled.. their first instinct would have been to accept it. Either it is money, products, anything”-
-without knowing he was doing this, your father trained you to not accept/ reject things offered to you. Imagine if your father said to himself when you were born: I am going to train this baby to not ask me for stuff/ to reject stuff by punishing her when she asks for stuff, and rewarding her (maybe) for not asking for stuff, Your father behaved as if he intentionally trained you this way, much like a person would train a dog: providing punishment (ex., talking to the dog in a harsh tone) in regard to behaviors the trainer wants to discourage, and provide a positive reward (ex., a food treats) in regard to behaviors the trainer wants to encourage.
Other people who have no trouble asking for stuff did not receive your training.
“It feels like I am even more closer to my own-self here far away from practically everyone else.. my authentic self the most“-your authentic self is Arden before she was trained by her father to not ask for stuff. Continuing to reclaim your authentic self would include learning to ask for stuff.
“I would wish that we could have came here together at the same time with my partner as I wouldn’t worry about finances or anything else this much, but as a result of my solitude here for months (already 5 months here alone… I can really feel how these job crises and other emotional hardships of moving here alone has contributed to my confidence...”- the reclaiming of your authentic self.
“The only problem we have with my partner is slight jealousy stuff… finances since I don’t feel safe and he doesn’t have a job at the moment and still applies, and he gets depressive when he gets rejected by each job… I try to save up more for any type of expenses that might arise… Can I trust him that way, would he put the same effort as myself and work, earn… So far, I don’t think he would use me. But I guess I have a built in fear about being used… These types of thoughts make me feel stingy, or weird, but all I am trying to do is to make sure that I am not being used. I start having expectations of him earning more than me once he comes (hence the skills he has) and therefore I can feel more secure in the long run”-
– much of the ways we think is the result of the training we received, and not an expression of our authentic self. Try to accept your thoughts without shame because you didn’t choose them. If you had different parents, you’d have different thoughts ad different behaviors. Much of a child is a set of reactions to parents’ expressions, words and behaviors.
From what you shared, your boyfriend knows that you definitely need him to be financially responsible, to find work and earn according to his skills. I hope that he moves soon to live with you, and that the two of you operate as one responsible financial unit.
anita
April 29, 2024 at 7:21 pm #432162anitaParticipantTwo months and 5 days after you posted last, I wonder about you, hope you are well…
anita
May 29, 2024 at 7:30 pm #433291anitaParticipantThree months and 5 days since you posted last. I sure hope that you are okay!
anita
July 4, 2024 at 11:47 am #434664ArdenParticipantHey Anita, I am well. I hope you have been nice, healthy, and peaceful and continue to be like that.
I remember reading your last answer a couple times since it made all the sense. There has been many new stuff, but mostly, it’s still the same. I hope you are well. I kept my sanity by looking/watching horoscopes actually! Funny. I have been trying to find a solution to my job issue and have been also continuing the bureaucracy about my bf moving in with me and getting a visa, they declined him. Then I had to go back, urgently, and even though it is not possible to arrange everything in 3 days, (it takes months sometimes to find a date), we managed to make the impossible possible and got married in just a few days and I rushed back, to use that for him to come. Still waiting for that to happen (10 months in long distance, i think we’re dealing with it well) In the same time, I am also trying to find new solutions, freelance gigs like i did in the past. Have conversations and contacts that I am trying to feed little by little, giving everyone a piece of effort so it can flourish to be a business deal of some sort. There has been some people/companies that let me down after giving me hope, but that’s alright.
The most tiring thing is the long process and keeping the chin up, I guess. Sometimes I just want to lay down for months but that’s not an option. I am giving my full effort not to look desperate, because that doesn’t help when you are looking for solutions and jobs, trying to look my best for each meetup and meeting. Creating some stuff over the days. All in all, we’re doing out best, separately, sometimes I am encouraging him and sometimes he does that to me. I never hold in when I feel like crying, i feel like if i hide something, that would harm me a lot. So just letting myself flow, of course not with everyone, just with him and on my own.
I have been feeling how far I’ve come, honestly. I can see how my mind is changing, and how fast I am growing. Even though I am on my own and I do feel like I live comfortably, in a lucky flat, that can make me think that I am still lucky but I still struggle and try to keep myself on track, keep on trying. Because I didn’t want to give up just yet. Building a life is not easy.
In all the things that are happening, upsetting me one way or another, business things are not the most hurtful one. I am not taking that personally, at all. It’s like, as if the life is making me do the hard thing. It’s like, I am not able to find a comfy thing. I was expecting to find a stable job, and just keep it simple. But as I see, that’s not possible for me, for now. I am not able to land on something simple and just be, I have to build something in some way. I have to take the highroad and do something on my own, or with partners, maybe. I also applied for a masters degree here and got accepted, that was something out of blue, and i now feel like I have to make it possible to stay here to complete that while working.
so there’s that.
i don’t know how logical for me to see things that way, not sure. I might be acting a bit delusional when it comes to seeing all those rejections and bad luck-sort of, as a re-direction for me. I would like to be working for someone else’s company, brand. But that’s not happening, even though I am offering everything they need, for some reason that is not happening at all. lol. so just trying to see things from a different perspective.
and aside from all the things, i have been thinking about friends as well. I have been realizing some shifts in my friendships, and some of the people i cared for, helped in my old life, are not being nice with me because i stopped caring for them without being asked. It’s like, since I stopped doing what I did, they thought I was being distant. But maybe I didn’t have time and the energy, so why not care for me this time instead of focusing on yourself?
Also have been thinking about specific people, and trying to figure out what’s happening. But that’s not a good thing for me to keep my mind busy about, but it just happens. If I were to find out, maybe I would stop. But it’s the doubt that keeps me going. For instance, a friend that has been giving me some mixed signals within the texts, confuses me. She asked me months and months back, “What is holding you there? Why not quit? Why do you stand there and hold all the stress, and keep trying? Is it really worth it?” Then I couldn’t really process and told her that this is not something we can know for sure and we just have to keep trying or keep waiting to find out. She didn’t like my answer, and thought I was being distant. But I really didn’t like her question then. It wasn’t a question I liked to talk about, i was in a hard position and all I need was positivity. Not someone that would tell me all the negative stuff I would already calculated in my mind. I wouldn’t want that from a friend.
I have faced that and got a response that those were not written in bad intentions at all. Then replied with what that made me feel. She even told me that I was being touchy, because maybe I was distant from everyone else and alone. When I am not happy with some comment I got, and when a friend is not being careful with me when I need the care the most, especially when I did that for them in the past, the fact that she told me that “maybe I am misunderstanding because I am alone” was not for me. Instead of taking accountability, she blamed me for being touchy.
All in all, we got it resolved, or that’s what I thought.
I still feel like she has those feelings that I cannot quite understand. I don’t like when people see living abroad as a very big privilege. It’s actually not, and I have known that before, guessed that, listened stories about that. So when I came here, I didn’t have pink dreams. I knew that things would be hard. And when people have that type of mind, ideas when talking with me, I try to give them a real point of view. Maybe I’ve done that too many times and some friends thought I was miserable? I don’t know. I would rather be sincere and not fake anything. But then I tried to express positive stuff too. It’s like she is ignoring or even not looking at what I express, in a positive way. Not knowing intentions, makes you confused. I think I really care what she thinks but cannot figure out what’s happening, that’s all. If I had a clue on she might be jealous or something, that would’ve been relaxing me but that’s also not the case. I don’t think she is kind of person to be jealous.
stuff like that, i catch myself not seeing things clearly here, so it’s been making my mind busy on some level.
July 4, 2024 at 3:42 pm #434677anitaParticipantDear Arden:
MARRIED..! What a delight to read this, congratulations!!!
I will read the rest of your post and reply later, when I am more focused (likely Fri morning, it’s Thurs afternoon here), so tired now. Good to read from you, I was thinking about you, wondering how you’re doing.
anita
July 5, 2024 at 8:46 am #434710anitaParticipantDear Arden:
“I hope you are well“- thank you. Unfortunately sick with Covid at this time.
“10 months in long distance, I think we’re dealing with it well… All in all, we’re doing out best, separately, sometimes I am encouraging him and sometimes he does that to me. I never hold in when I feel like crying, I feel like if I hide something, that would harm me a lot. So just letting myself flow, of course not with everyone, just with him and on my own.“- reads like you are dealing with the long-distance well, and that it’s a good relationship (now a marriage)!
“I am also trying to find new solutions, freelance gigs… I have been feeling how far I’ve come, honestly. I can see how my mind is changing, and how fast I am growing… Building a life is not easy“- indeed, you’ve grown so much since we first communicated on June 7, 2019. You are strong, resourceful, resilient and quite amazing!
“a friend that has been giving me some mixed signals within the texts, confuses me. She asked me months and months back, ‘What is holding you there? Why not quit?..’… all I need was positivity. Not someone that would tell me all the negative stuff… I wouldn’t want that from a friend…. she blamed me for being touchy… It’s like she is ignoring or even not looking at what I express, in a positive way…. stuff like that, I catch myself not seeing things clearly here, so it’s been making my mind busy on some level.“- you referred to her as a friend. Seems to me that she is not a friend but an acquaintance. Maybe she is friendly acquaintance at times (?), but otherwise, she seems to be someone who brings you down. That’s a shame.
What you need is encouragement, not discouragement; positivity, not negativity; clarity, not confusion; someone to focus on your positives, not someone who ignores you or blames you! I wish you limited contact with her, or better perhaps, put it on hold altogether..?
anita
July 7, 2024 at 6:02 am #434757ArdenParticipantI hope you are feeling better and I hope you will get better very soon Anita.
Thank you for your nice words. I will limit, and maybe already limited my communication with her.
Lately I feel like I have outgrown my friends a lot. It’s like, I have no friend or an acquaintance that would be able to understand what I am going through. Not because it’s horrible, i don’t think it’s horrible. I am lucky in a way, compared to many people on this planet. But because they cannot understand, because most of them are stuck in a bubble. I am also stuck in a bubble but I feel like my bubble has grown a bit and got thickened (?).
So I feel like I can ask for help in many areas, but I cannot ask for life advice. However, I give many life advice/relationship advice when I can, to them. Sometimes a flirtatious thing my friend is going through that I am trying to help with my limited time, seems so trivial. I keep seeing the same thing my friend is struggling with and repeating, and cannot help but think how childish is that. How childish is some of the conversations they’re having.
I hope that this is not the bad kind of ego talking here.
When it comes to my perception of life that needs nourishing, I read rarely and it helps. Enlightens me. And I am lucky to write here and get responses from you as well, wanted to express that gratitude, not because it’s good to express, but because it’s really a lucky thing to have. Honestly.
July 7, 2024 at 12:20 pm #434770anitaParticipantDear Arden:
Thank you for wising me well, and you are welcome! I feel tired, exhausted, also because it’s so hot outside!
“Lately I feel like I have outgrown my friends a lot“- reads like it to me.
“I feel like my bubble has grown a bit and got thickened (?)“- I think so.
“I hope that this is not the bad kind of ego talking here“- no, I think you need mature friends, on your level.
“… I am lucky to write here and get responses from you as well, wanted to express that gratitude, not because it’s good to express, but because it’s really a lucky thing to have. Honestly.“-thank you, Arden. I feel myself smiling, and I think this is the first time I am smiling this Sunday, early afternoon!
anita
November 13, 2024 at 6:44 pm #439378ArdenParticipantHey. I hope you are amazing, it’s now November, 4 months since we last spoke.
Lots of things have resolved and many other problems have arisen since then. Got some chances to realize marriage is not an easy thing when I had to do my work in a tight schedule, see family, do many compulsory chores in order to complete my bureaucratic things, almost go crazy and calm back down and also at the same time, try to manage the balance between two families. In fact, three in my case, almost as my mom and dad are also married to other people.
I learnt that mom was not happy and in fact suffocating in her marriage, got her into thinking straight when she was talking about leaving the house on her own to work alone start all over again. Such stupidity, with my honestly and not with rude feelings. It’s a stupid thing to do. I told her that she did this to me in the past, leave house and work/stay on your own alone raise two girls. That was painful enough for me to sympathise and try to help during my childhood, I would not be able to handle that today, again, from all the way afar. So doesn’t matter what happens, divorce or not, I was able to persuade her into not leaving the home like that.
Pride, what a toxic thing? What a tricky thing to have! I despise it. I reaaallllly DESPISE pride. And you know what? I don’t believe in pride. It’s not pride. Something else. I have some ideas but haven’t cooked my ideas well yet. Some people, just cannot think straight.
It’s like I get it if you neglect your own self and think of others. Think of your children woman. So irrational, so emotional, so manipulated and also not intentionally manipulative.
During all that, the other family, my partners’ wanted to meet my own. They persisted for months, can see why of course, I get it. They got tickets and got to the city while I was there to quickly handle 2-3 urgent things. So we made a plan and had everything worked out besides some of my health checks I wanted to do but cancelled in order to make them happy.
Which made me unhappy right after.
They should’ve seen how much of a chaos I was in, and they should’ve prioritized my health checks, since I couldn’t do them easily and affordably away where I live. But I chose to make them happy then. Couldn’t see it. I secretly resent them for that.
But also, my partner should’ve communicated that. He couldn’t, he’s not very good in communicating with family. I kind-of understand that.
Remember when I told you about my partner giving a lot of money for her sister to get her a phone? I felt so bad after hearing about this. It happened again when I was not aware. Turns out he, out of the blue, given her one month salary worth money when she was not even asking. When we were talking about money at some point, he must’ve felt guilty and told me. I cried. I tried to tell him that how much of a stress I am going through and doing everything I can to save up, when he did this without asking me. I tried to make him understand how his sister is in very good hands, lives in a family house, no rent, can easily save up. Not like me, at all, and we’re almost same age, she’s older than me. And in this situation, this is heartbreaking. He promised to never do anything like that again. I hope that I haven’t came across as selfish or, i don’t know, bad. It’s a very hard subject.
I can see what is happening. When something is not just, I can see it. I might not fight for it, but seeing and protecting yourself is important. He is not in a just position, within the family I think. Other siblings one way or another use resources of the family. He is all alone, and I was/am/will be there when he is in need. Vice versa. Before them, I was there. Before them, I will be there to worry. It’s what it is.
I cannot, in anyway, accept that he would support other siblings financially. I can accept that the family is not seeing it and he’s all alone. That’s okay, we would be all on our own. That was my whole plan. But I cannot accept him supporting them. I mean, how in the world he does not see that. I don’t know.
Both my rationale and my child-self who was not supported/given money to spend on something trivial for once, by a father or by a older sibling or a older relative, cannot accept it. I burst into tears just thinking about it.
I would kill for an apartment all to me from my family. All to me, no rent, no stress, no landlord to try to get rid of me. That girl who couldn’t find a flat and had to live with others also cannot accept having him support her like that, out of blue. I bet she didn’t even tell the family, how much of a financial support she got from him. She is not a bad person. He should be able to find this balance. somehow.
But I could never hold it in. Now we’re living together, I am still trying so hard for my work, committed to be successful in anyway, seeing hardships as a test, that will someday end and make me proud. Without any religion, I am surprised that I could be this faithful. Continuing to do so, hoping that these types of problems would not shadow my relationship and somehow soon, I would finally relax having accomplished with financial stability.
I might have to find a way to delete or change content within this post after you read it. It’s too much sensitivity that I would be really afraid for someone to find out. Idk.
November 13, 2024 at 6:57 pm #439379anitaParticipantDear Arden: “I might have to find a way to delete or change content within this post after you read it. It’s too much sensitivity that I would be really afraid for someone to find out. Idk.“- I just copied your most recent post, in case you delete it. I copied it so to read it Thurs morning, and you can request it to be deleted, I suppose (going to “CONTACT” under “HOME” at the top of the home page). Back to you tomorrow!
anita
November 13, 2024 at 6:57 pm #439380ArdenParticipantOne thing that makes me feel safe is that he was living in my old house which i didn’t trust, in terms of earthquakes. Sometimes i was so afraid of something happening suddenly. I was safe, away, non-earthquake zone. But he was still there. Now he’s here. And I don’t have to be afraid anymore.
November 13, 2024 at 6:59 pm #439381ArdenParticipantThe level of support felt through this fast reply explaining how to delete, is un-real.
I am really lucky to have posted here and got a reply from you years back.
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