Home→Forums→Emotional Mastery→The phenomenon of “helping someone excessively can make them turn against you”
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November 13, 2024 at 8:02 pm #439383anitaParticipant
Thank you for saying this, Arden!
anita
November 14, 2024 at 12:26 pm #439396anitaParticipantDear Arden:
“I chose to make them happy then. Couldn’t see it. I secretly resent them for that.“– I read this after I submitted my post for you on your new thread. It really is about sacrificing oneself/ neglecting oneself for the benefit of others=> leading to resentment, just like the online source from which I quoted said.
“Remember when I told you about my partner giving a lot of money for her sister to get her a phone? I felt so bad after hearing about this. It happened again when I was not aware. Turns out he, out of the blue, given her one month salary worth money when she was not even asking..“- understandable, Arden: the rage on the part of the self-sacrificing, the one caring and over-doing for others.. rage about those who are done for, those who take, those who have it easy.
“I would kill for an apartment all to me from my family. All to me, no rent, no stress, no landlord to try to get rid of me“- I understand, Arden. I wish you had a childhood where you were taken care of, a time of being a carefree child and teenager. Unfortunately, you didn’t have that, and it created an emotional wound within you, and understandably, envy of those who had it/ have it better.
Only that the people you think have it better, generally do not. We tend to look at others’ fortunes/ advantages from the point of view of our misfortunes/ disadvantages.. but misery has many sources. Maybe your husband is aware of his sister’ miseries that you are not aware of, and has been trying to help her..?
It is very difficult to change from being a self-sacrificial person => an assertive, self-caring person. Such habits are very difficult to break/ change. What do you think/ feel?
anita
November 17, 2024 at 7:33 am #439441ArdenParticipantAbout the things that can be done, I look at them as doable or not doable, at least for my fave people or closest people. If I can do something, I try to do it. Doesn’t matter how stuck I am, how busy I am or how tired. If it’s doable by me, why let that person suffer or, ask that from somebody else and pay for it? I can do it for free, right? Applies to professional help I give to my relatives, things I did for their jobs to work out.
It’s like, common sense?
But they are not necessarily like that and I tend to realize that, and get bitter, in my mind. No reaction, I just feel bitter. But I keep doing it for some time.
In my husband’s case, I might have evaluated my boundaries wrong also. I can see that being able to evaluate your resources, and how to help family friends, it’s his own responsibility to balance that. If he doesn’t get any help from the family, and the other two siblings are getting LOTS of help from the family and living comfortably with that help offering nothing to my husband, only the basic stuff, like we stayed there for a night, and such. That’s something my husband needs to see and act towards.
I mean I don’t get it really, I paid the rent, two rents at the same time when he didn’t work. I paid all the electricity bills when he was not getting any help from the family, at all. Nobody knew from his family that his own flat was in a bad condition, nobody knew the hardships we endured together.
I had to support him because I could. But now, him helping out the family he got no help from? It really makes me upset. I am questioning everything. Don’t ask for anything, they might be unjust, but at least do not give lots of money to them when you don’t have your own flat or like your own bed, but they do. I feel toxic about thinking all these details, really. I shouldn’t have thought about these. But like, I do. I am trying hard to make my own living, lessen my stress and buy some stuff for our house -finally- after all those times where I couldn’t get any thing. In those times, his siblings were decorating their own houses that my partner couldn’t stay and had to stay on my problematic own house risking me to be sued again.
From looking at this angle, I feel like I shouldn’t have endured all those things.
One thing you made me thought about, telling me that maybe some bad thing have happened to her and he had to help out, I asked especially if something happened. He told me that he just saw the things in the refrigerator in her house and felt bad so sent all those money for her to buy good stuff. This made me think also. I stayed hungry because i had no time to cook for so many evenings. The reason why she had those “bad” stuff, was all about the closest market having those “bad” stuff we also ate since our childhood. It might not be the best quality food around, but that’s what I ate for 15 years. The reason why she got those things was not about money, it’s the closest one and she probably doesn’t want to walk for an extra 5 mins that’s all.
This week his other sibling is selling the family car and upgrading to a new one for his own family. My partner didn’t even have a saying on this issue. Everyone is just thinking about themselves and upgrading their life. I cannot get over the fact that his sibling that he helped out that much, is actually buying so much nice stuff for herself that I postpone buying.
Let alone those nice things, the worst thing that gets me thinking and feel bad, feel resentment, is that she has all those free time after work. I literally have zero free time, it has been like this for 2 years, excessively for the last year.
It’s just hurting me.
I feel bad about keeping you busy about something this toxic. Bad thoughts. Really bad ones, and this is what I’ve been thinking.
November 17, 2024 at 7:41 am #439442ArdenParticipantAnd yes, when you told me maybe sth bad happened, I thought differently for one second. My primary opinion on how he doesn’t want to share anything bad and I am there to face it together so all baggage is on me and not on them, has not changed. It’s not correct.
But for one second, my perspective shifted from “victim” to something else. I am looking at this issue from a victim’s perspective, feeling so much bitterness. I have to work on that victim perspective that occurs when something like this happens. I should never think like a victim.
Although I kind of know something bad didn’t happen for her. I would know, he would tell me.
But i feel like if this habit of his, not sharing hardships but also helping out goes on, i don’t know what’s gonna happen. I cannot unsee my feelings, unsee my effort. All this years of effort of mine deserves being prioritized by him. If his sister cannot manage all that money without paying rent and getting help from the family, she could ask for help and get some, but not in this form. She should know better, learn better. All my effort should never finance that sort of lazy behavior.
November 17, 2024 at 7:42 am #439443ArdenParticipantFighting with myself in my mind, i feel that.
Sorry to keep you busy with this toxic mentality.
November 17, 2024 at 12:51 pm #439449anitaParticipantDear Arden:
“Sorry to keep you busy with this toxic mentality.“- no, no need to apologize. I am sorry that you are suffering. Some of your concerns are valid and your agitation understandable: your husband should direct his resources to team # 1 (you and him), and reciprocate your efforts and commitment. I feel badly that he hasn’t, not adequately, at least.
I slept very poorly last night and I ran out of focus, at this Sun afternoon point. I want to read and re-read your recent posts and return to you Mon morning.
anita
November 18, 2024 at 11:45 am #439484anitaParticipantDear Arden:
“About the things that can be done, I look at them as doable or not doable“- you are a very practical person. You categorize tasks into two distinct groups: tasks you think can be accomplished (doable) and tasks you think cannot be accomplished (not doable).
“If I can do something, I try to do it. Doesn’t matter how stuck I am, how busy I am or how tired. If it’s doable by me, why let that person suffer“- you are a selfless, helpful person. You prioritize helping others whenever you have the ability to do so, regardless of your own circumstances or challenges. You believe that if you have the capability to alleviate someone else’s suffering, you should take action, even if it requires personal effort and sacrifice.
“But they are not necessarily like that and I tend to realize that, and get bitter, in my mind. No reaction, I just feel bitter. But I keep doing it for some time“- you acknowledge that others do not share the same level of selflessness and willingness to help as you do, that others do not reciprocate your efforts or show consideration. This realization leads to feelings of bitterness and resentment.
Despite feeling bitter, you choose not to express these feelings outwardly or confront others about it. Instead, you internalize your emotions. And despite the bitterness and lack of reciprocation, you continue to help others. You are grappling with the emotional toll of consistently giving without receiving the same level of consideration in return (not even close to the same level of consideration in return).
It’s easy to point to solutions (open communication with husband and other people, setting healthy boundaries, and practicing self-care), but it’s very difficult for you to put these solutions into practice, isn’t it?
“In my husband’s case…”– reads like your husband is similar to you, only that he helps his siblings in self-sacrificial ways.. at his- and your expense.
“I had to support him because I could. But now, him helping out the family he got no help from? It really makes me upset… at least do not give lots of money to them when you don’t have your own flat or like your own bed“- reads like you and your husband are too similar: self sacrificial. Only you sacrifice for him while he sacrifices for his siblings.
“Everyone is just thinking about themselves and upgrading their life. I cannot get over the fact that his sibling that he helped out that much, is actually buying so much nice stuff for herself that I postpone buying“- you are expressing feelings of frustration and resentment about inequality in effort and reward, feeling that others, including your husband’s sibling, prioritize their own needs and improvements over those of others. You made personal sacrifices, such as postponing buying nice things, and then seeing the sibling indulge in nice things feels unfair and hurtful.
This situation puts an emotional strain on you, as you struggle to reconcile your own sacrifices with the actions of others who seem to be benefiting without similar sacrifices.
“But for one second, my perspective shifted from ‘victim’ to something else. I am looking at this issue from a victim’s perspective, feeling so much bitterness. I have to work on that victim perspective that occurs when something like this happens. I should never think like a victim“- here, you are expressing self-awareness where you see the situation from a different angle, realizing that your feelings of bitterness and resentment are stemming from viewing yourself as a victim in an unjust situation, a person with no power to change an unjust situation. You recognize the need to address and change this mindset, understanding that it is not helpful or constructive. You want to develop a more empowering and resilient mindset.
“I cannot unsee my feelings, unsee my effort. All this years of effort of mine deserves being prioritized by him. If his sister cannot manage all that money… She should know better, learn better. All my effort should never finance that sort of lazy behavior.“- you feel that your hard work and sacrifices should be recognized and valued by your husband. You want your contributions to be acknowledged and prioritized. You are frustrated that your husband’s sibling, who has received significant help, is not managing her finances responsibly. She believes the sister should be more financially savvy and responsible. You resent that your sacrifices might be enabling his sister’s irresponsible and lazy behavior.
Your feelings are valid, Arden. It’s okay to feel how you feel. Your emotions and efforts are valid and deserve recognition. It is important for you to feel supported and understood. I think that you need to have open and honest conversations with your husband. Express your feelings to him calmly and clearly, using “I” statements to avoid sounding accusatory. For example, “I feel hurt and overlooked when my efforts are not acknowledged.”
Establish clear boundaries regarding financial support for extended family. It’s okay to prioritize your own needs and well-being. If necessary, and if possible, consider seeking the help of a therapist or counselor for strategies for effective communication and coping with these feelings.
Engage in activities that bring you some joy and relaxation. Taking care of yourself is crucial, especially during emotionally challenging times.
Reflect on your values and priorities. Understanding what you truly want and need can guide your decisions and actions moving forward.
I hope that your life improves and that peace of mind takes the place of distress and conflict!
anita
November 21, 2024 at 12:48 pm #439601anitaParticipantDear Arden:
I came across a poem yesterday, and I thought of sending it to you because it fits you:
“In the quiet of the night, where shadows play, And the silence whispers what hearts cannot say,
Know that even in the darkest of days, There’s a light within you, guiding your way.
Your heart feels heavy, burdened with care, The weight of the world, too much to bear.
Yet in the midst of pain, there’s a spark, A reminder that hope still ignites in the dark.
When love feels distant, and solace is scarce, Remember, dear soul, you are strong and fierce.
In the echoes of doubt, find your inner voice, A whisper of strength, a reason to rejoice.
Though the path seems lonely, you’re never alone, For within you lies a courage well-known.
Take each step forward, with grace and with might, For brighter tomorrows are born from this fight.
Let the tears flow freely, let the heart mend, For in brokenness, there’s a chance to transcend.
Embrace the journey, with all that it brings, For you are resilient, a soul with wings.
In the quiet of the night, hold on to your grace, With each breath you take, find a serene space.
Know that you are cherished, valued, and dear, And with each new dawn, let go of your fear.
May you find comfort in the love that remains, In the strength of your spirit, despite the pains.
For you are a warrior, with a heart so true, And brighter days will come, just for you.”
anita
December 24, 2024 at 7:49 am #440971ArdenParticipantThank you so much, I might even make this poem into a form of art this year. I want to create things like that in this new year, will try to actually find some free time to do that for myself. I would love to send it to you also. I am finally feeling burn out after one year of never stopping. I stopped, I had days where I couldn’t work much. But I have never stopped worrying, or thinking about what’s gonna happen. That much chaos only has given me a couple years. Hoping it wouldn’t have any effect on my health long term. Looking ways to strengthen my stomach. It has been a really hard year, 2024. Will never forget.
I started to understand how people are never 100% honest in their friendships. While I was trying to see how to be transparent, seeing all the flaws, I started to think I was the one faulty. But now I see everyone hides many thoughts from one another.
You told me a practical person, selfless one, I might be in some cases. But I do that either out of love, or I do that out of being scared. I am realizing I’ve been a people pleaser which is tied to not having enough self-something (either respect or love, I am not sure) and I don’t really like people that much. I see their selfishness and I share my honest opinion when I can, but I mostly have to hide that honest opinion because it’s not a good time.
In those moments, I always thought I was being insincere but turns out, maybe everyone is like that.
Those insincerity within friendships is actually something I need to get used to and I should protect myself at all costs. There are no one in this world that I can count on 100% that would protect my rights fully, even your family, or your husband can forget about what you need. You need to always understand or at least try to understand what you need and then communicate that, if communication is not possible, you need to somehow try to get what you need, negotiate.
Nobody, out of confidence, will try to protect your needs before their own. If they are doing that, that means they are scared of something about themselves which can be translated as also caring for their own needs.
So maybe having peace with that?
As to being practical and selfless, I tried out a new pattern the other day. A friend of mine (who only messaged me out of his own needs for the last 2 yrs) messaged me and asked for money. I was in dilemma, I was almost accepting and sending help to him. I kept thinking for two days even though I was very very busy. Since I was realizing he hasn’t been asking about me or how I’ve been and asking for stuff and getting those needs met. (not money but other stuff like tutoring) I wasn’t feeling comfortable meeting this need this time. I couldn’t quite say no, I have found excuses. I knew if I said yes, I wouldn’t be feeling like myself. I would be hijacking my own self-something. After all those working till burn out thingy going on in my life, that didn’t sat right.
I felt terrible rejecting him in a vague way. Then, he actually called me to check how I was doing a couple days later. I was so surprised, I actually thought he would hate me after I rejected helping out. Maybe it even helped.
I think I am also scared of being used. And since I work a lot for what I have or trying to have, it’s even harder for me to give away to someone who’s not showing that care to the thing I give away. If you’re not careful for your money or what you have, you sure will not be careful with mine. And me giving away to you, feels like a huge betrayal to my own worth.
So I am not selfless. I just want people to see and respect my “efforts” I think. Effort, or “labour” might be the most sacred thing in my mind right now.
December 24, 2024 at 7:50 am #440972ArdenParticipantI was going to say a couple words, but then they turned into a long post. I don’t know how does that happen honestly..
Merry Christmas Anita, I hope you will have an amazing new year which is full with happy surprises, peaceful moments and with loved ones.
December 24, 2024 at 10:05 am #440973anitaParticipantDear Arden:
Thank you so much for your heartfelt message and kind words. I’m truly touched that my poem inspired you, and I would be honored to see it transformed into a piece of art. Your dedication to finding time for creativity amidst your busy life is admirable.
You had a really challenging year, and it’s clear that you’ve been carrying a heavy load, not just with work but with constant worrying and thinking about the future. It’s very important to prioritize your health and well-being, and I’m glad you’re seeking ways to strengthen yourself.
I appreciate your reflections on friendships and self-perception:
* “People are never 100% honest in their friendships… everyone hides many thoughts from one another”-
– It’s true and it’s quite common for people to hide their thoughts. I hope you don’t mind (?), Arden, that I develop this topic. I want to develop it because it would help me, and maybe it will help you too:
Reasons why people hide their thoughts: (1) Social Etiquette/ being polite and promoting harmony. For example, thinking about someone you are talking to: “how unattractive he/ she looks like”, but hiding that thought so to not offend the person and to not create unnecessary tension. Another example: during a family dinner, someone hides his/ her true feelings about a political topic to avoid creating tension or offending relatives,
(2) Emotional Protection: to avoid being judged or hurt. For example, a person has romantic thoughts about a friend but hides those thoughts so to avoid the risk of rejection, and to avoid the potential loss of the friendship. Another example: a person hides his struggles with mental health, so to avoid being judged or stigmatized.
(3) Avoiding Conflict. For example, someone does not voice her disagreement in a group setting to keep the peace. Another example: in a relationship, one partner does not voice their annoyance with the other, so to prevent an argument.
(4) Fear of Rejection. An example: an employee does not share his innovative idea in a meeting, fearing it will be dismissed or ridiculed by colleagues
(5) Privacy. Example: a person keeps his financial struggles, or medical struggles private, choosing to deal with them independently rather than sharing them with friends, family, and/ or coworkers.
(6) Professionalism. Examples: an employee avoids discussing personal political beliefs at work to maintain a professional atmosphere and prevent potential conflicts.
Overall, hiding thoughts to some extent is a universal human behavior. Everyone does it to navigate various social, personal, and professional situations more smoothly. Selective disclosure of thoughts is a necessary and healthy part of everyday human interactions.
Understanding this can help in developing empathy and recognizing that everyone has unspoken thoughts and feelings, just as we do.Hiding Thoughts is Healthy when it serves to avoid unnecessary conflicts maintain polite interactions with others, fostering a peaceful and cooperative environment, especially in settings where oversharing could be inappropriate or harmful. Also, it allows people to process their thoughts & feelings internally before deciding how, or if, they want to share them with others. In professional settings, discretion is often necessary to maintain a productive and respectful workplace.
Hiding Thoughts is Unhealthy for a person when he/ she does it too much. Emotional suppression on a regular basis, in every context, result in stress, anxiety, or depression, and it leads to a lack of authenticity in personal relationships, creating feelings of isolation. It’s important to find healthy outlets for expressing emotions. When people hide their thoughts to avoid conflict, it can lead to unresolved issues and built-up resentment over time, which can eventually strain relationships and lead to bigger conflicts.
Also, hiding thoughts and avoiding difficult conversations can prevent personal growth and self-improvement. It’s often through open and honest communication that individuals learn and grow.
In summary: it’s important to strike a balance between discretion (hiding our thoughts) and openness (voicing our thoughts). Finding the right time and place to express thoughts, and doing so constructively, can help maintain both personal well-being and healthy relationships. Having trusted individuals or safe spaces where one you can share thoughts openly is crucial. This provides a healthy outlet for emotions and helps build supportive connections. In essence, while hiding thoughts is a normal and often necessary part of social interaction, it’s important to ensure it doesn’t lead to negative emotional consequences or hinder authentic relationships.
* Now, to the people pleasing topic: being a people pleaser, like you expressed, Arden, can stem from a mix of love and fear. Recognizing this is a powerful step toward understanding yourself better. Realizing that people-pleasing is a behavior driven by specific motivations can boost your confidence in your ability to change and grow. With better understanding, you can work toward being more authentic in your relationships. This leads to deeper and more genuine connections with others.
Recognizing the mix of love and fear behind your actions can encourage self-compassion and help you find a balance between helping others and taking care of yourself, developing a more balanced and fulfilling life.
* Your experience with your friend’s request for money illustrates the struggle between wanting to help and feeling used. It’s okay to set boundaries and prioritize your own needs, especially when you’re already dealing with so much. Your decision to protect your self-worth and not feel used is commendable. It’s okay to prioritize your needs and ensure that your relationships are balanced and respectful.
Points: (1) You can practice saying no in a firm but polite manner. Example: “I’m sorry, but I can’t help with that right now”, (2) Express your needs and boundaries directly. Use “I” statements to avoid sounding accusatory. Example: “I feel overwhelmed when I’m asked to take on extra tasks. I need some time for myself”, (3) Decide what you’re comfortable with and communicate these boundaries clearly. Boundaries help protect your time, energy, and resources. Example: “I can help you, but only for an hour”, (4) Enforce your boundaries consistently. If someone crosses a boundary, remind them of your limits. Example: “I mentioned that I can only assist for an hour. I need to stop now”, (5) Take time for yourself and engage in activities that recharge you. Self-care strengthens your ability to set boundaries and resist being used. Examples: Engaging in hobbies or exercise, (6) Distance yourself from individuals who consistently take advantage of your kindness and focus on relationships where there is mutual respect and support. Healthy relationships involve give and take from both sides. Surround yourself with people who respect and value you.
Wishing you, Arden, a Merry Christmas and an amazing new year filled with happy surprises, peaceful moments, and the company of loved ones. May you find the balance and peace you seek.
anita
December 25, 2024 at 7:25 am #441001anitaParticipantM e R r Y C h R i S t M a S A r D e N 🎄🎅 ✨❄️ 🎁 😊 !
anita
December 25, 2024 at 8:18 am #441010shinnenParticipantHi Arden,
It’s my observation that helpful people are often not appreciated for there efforts.
It’s a strange phenomenon, but it seems like those who do not offer to help are more respected, or sought after,
than those who go out of their way to do so. Perhaps the person who needs help appreciates it
more from some who does not offer it. It’s very odd.
….. johnDecember 25, 2024 at 9:43 am #441014anitaParticipantDear John and Arden:
Thank you, John, for sharing your thoughtful observation. It’s indeed an interesting and somewhat puzzling phenomenon that you’ve highlighted, one that didn’t occur to me during my conversations with Arden.
It’s true that helpful people often go underappreciated, which can feel quite disheartening. I looked into this “strange… very odd” phenomenon (your words) because I want to understand what’s behind it.
The term Norm of Reciprocity refers to the social expectation that people will respond to each other with similar levels of help and kindness. However, when one person consistently helps others without receiving equivalent help in return, this norm breaks down, and it is often troubling to the one who is being helpful (people like Arden).
The term Habituation is a psychological phenomenon where repeated exposure to a stimulus leads to a decrease in response. In this context, the stimulus is the help offered by a helpful person. At first, the one helped notices and appreciates the help, but over time of repeated exposure to being helped, the one helped stops noticing it- just as people who hear a new sound notice it, but when a sound is repeated (background noise), people become used to it and stop noticing it.
There is a not widely known term- Helper’s Paradox- which describes the paradoxical situation where the more someone helps, the less they are appreciated, leading to feelings of underappreciation and resentment for the helper. Another term- Giver fatigue- it happens when a person who frequently helps others begins to feel emotionally drained and unappreciated, leading to burnout and a decreased willingness to help in the future.
Does this clarify things for you, John? Arden?
anita
December 25, 2024 at 4:13 pm #441021shinnenParticipantHi Anita,
Clarify it for me? Not really. My suspicion, and it’s only a suspicion, is that people don’t fully appreciate what is given to them readily. They appreciate it more if they have to work (or ask) to get it. This is conclusion from what I’ve seen.
…. john -
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