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The phenomenon of “helping someone excessively can make them turn against you”

HomeForumsEmotional MasteryThe phenomenon of “helping someone excessively can make them turn against you”

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Viewing 6 posts - 61 through 66 (of 66 total)
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  • #441022
    anita
    Participant

    Dear John: I appreciate it that you answered me. I would like to answer tomorrow morning.

    anita

    #441038
    anita
    Participant

    Dear John:

    “My suspicion, and it’s only a suspicion, is that people don’t fully appreciate what is given to them readily. They appreciate it more if they have to work (or ask) to get it. This is conclusion from what I’ve seen.”-

    – This phenomenon can be related to the concept of scarcity in social psychology. When something is scarce, it often becomes more valuable and desirable; when people have to ask for help or put in effort to receive it, they perceive it as more valuable due to its scarcity.

    This principle of scarcity is used in various fields, including economics (example: Limited edition products are often perceived as more valuable), marketing (example: sales and promotions with time limits or limited stock can create a sense of urgency, making customers more eager to purchase), and in social interactions where attention or affection from someone who is not easily available or constantly present often feels more valuable because it’s perceived as scarce (example: women who are dating are often more attracted to emotionally unavailable or emotionally reserved men than to men who are very attentive and eager).

    When help is readily available and consistently given, it can be perceived as abundant (not at all scarce) and thus, less valuable. People tend to take it for granted, assuming that it will always be there. Conversely, if help is not easily accessible or requires effort to obtain (e.g., asking for it), it often feels more valuable because it is perceived as scarce.

    For those who are consistently helpful, the lack of appreciation can be disheartening. Understanding the principle of scarcity can help realize that the undervaluation of their help is not a reflection of its true worth, but rather a psychological response to its availability.

    Your observation, John, adds an important dimension to understanding why helpfulness sometimes go unappreciated: it’s not just about the frequency of help (leading to the habituation concept I mentioned yesterday), but also about the scarcity concept. Thank you for sharing this perspective.

    anita

    #441039
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Arden:

    I am now more equipped, thanks to John’s insight, to respond to your original post of Sept 15, 2023:

    “I have seen from experience that when you help someone excessively, like helping them in a way that you’re putting more effort than them, this can make them turn against you… I’ve been getting help (actually I haven’t asked for this help)”-

    – You acknowledged that receiving help, especially when it is excessive and unasked for, can create discomfort and even resentment. The scarcity principle suggests that help and support are often more appreciated and valued when they are less accessible or when the receiver has to put in effort to obtain them. In your case, your friend’s constant help felt less valuable because it was so readily available.

    Also, you felt that your friend’s excessive help was disproportionate to your own efforts, creating a sense of imbalance. This imbalance made you feel uncomfortable and possibly resentful. This connects to the “Norm of Reciprocity” concept I mentioned yesterday, referring to the social expectation that people will respond to each other with similar levels of help and kindness.

    Also, in your original post, you expressed a need for personal space and time to process your thoughts and feelings. The constant presence of your friend, despite being helpful, disturbed your sense of independence and autonomy. Personal space and time are valuable because they are often scarce commodities in busy lives. When someone else’s help invades this scarce personal space, it leads to feelings of discomfort and a desire to re-establish boundaries.

    * As I was re-reading the first page of this thread, I felt very appreciative of your words (it was at a time when I returned to tiny buddha after six months of absence). You wrote, Sept 17, 2023: “Hey Anita, are you ‘Anita” Anita?… I never thought you would be back!… I am so surprised! I now felt like a little kid who’s caught eaten lots of chocolates since you’re back!… I still cannot comprehend how you can provide such insights to lots of people, the things you do, and how you do it, it’s like you’re studying the posts and then providing your perspective, which are so brilliant and helpful each time… it’s such a delight seeing/having a conversation with you again. All in all, I feel grateful to have met and contacted you here”- Wow! You were talking about me! Your words are still exciting for me to read 15 months later. Thank you, Arden for your heartwarming words and the big smile you brought to my face- again- this 2024 After-Christmas morning!

    anita

    #441714
    Arden
    Participant

    I am happy that you re-read them and felt good, I still agree with those words to full extend. You make such connections that only a very good therapist can make and those result in many enlightenments. Also here, the summary of how scare personal space is in busy lives and most times, it’s more valuable than any form of help.. Sometimes we know stuff, but we cannot put that into words, and that affects us regarding seeing that information in our lives or implement them. I had this information in my head somewhere but it was so vague, so raw that it affected how I feel but could not affect how i think about that feeling or take action. Now that I can see why, I understand and can prioritize my personal space better or respect it better. This is one of the most important things in life, I value intellectual dances a lot. I think world would not have any joy in it without the lessons we take from what we see in life, what we feel and what we go through. It would be just tasteless agony then. But understanding it in such a level actually enlightens that agony, gives it a meaning, makes us grow. You help people grow. I think that’s invaluable.

    I felt resentment towards that friend, yes. She had her own way of doing things and when she tried to help me, she did things her own way. I don’t like that, i’m a grown person and I like my own stuff and my own ways. When she tried to help me out, she didn’t care that much about how I wanted things, she focused on what she believed was correct. And that’s a limitation in mind that I sometimes cannot tolerate. It can even be about the type of the cheese to buy. It’s hard to communicate, hard to bond with such people. Maybe I am like that in some ways without realizing.

    I am trying to understand ego for such a long time I guess, only sporadically. Now I feel like I should understand it more. A little bit better, for my own sake. I need to work with that friend at the moment, as a coincidence. I have been working with her brother for quite a while and I’ve worked my a** off, so proud of that. Worked day and night in order to make it right for a year, now she needs help and me and her brother, trying to have her work also. So we’ve been trying to get her invested into working with us for the last 6 months, motivating her, cause there are no opportunities for her to be employed or work elsewhere. I’m also trying to teach her what I’m able, etc. It was only yesterday that after many months and weeks of trying, she was able to do some work.

    I also thought she believed she could be employed in bigger places making her feel better and she kind of looked down on what we did, what we worked on. But now, she has no other solutions and no time to wait and has to work with us. And even with what we do, she has to learn.

    I mediated between them when they fought, found the common ground at times. Although she lashed out to me also when she was angry with her brother thinking I was advocating for her brother. And there were no reasons to be angry at him, bcz brother was trying to get her to work, that was the reason. It’s like, she didn’t like being told what to do and doesn’t matter who is doing that, either me or her brother, she got angry and tried to limit us. She cried when things got real, left the room or the house, instead of saying “yes i will commit and we’ll work together”, she found ways to postpone that sentence and also haven’t said no because that would’ve meant losing the support from her brother. She needs her brother to survive abroad, to earn money somehow. To be realistic, she got no skills to work at the moment at a different place. Until she does, she needs him.

    Too many weird details, sorry for that. I am at the moment fighting with her ego on working together, trying to have her help me out on some tasks, and hopefully that would enable us to complete more projects and work for more projects resulting in earning just enough income for us.

    She is one year older than me, but we don’t feel that in our dynamic. She has completed her bachelors 3 yrs or sth later than me I suppose, so these are the first job experiences she is having which is with her brother. I am guessing this dynamic has destroyed our friendship at last, maybe temporarily but I will not forget this time. Because every time she has created that limit, it resulted in US getting lashed out from the brother at the same time. I have always been stressed out because of her not doing the bare minimum while I have been doing the maximum. She got angry with me a month ago and has not spoken to me as friends since. Only compulsory communication that involves work in some ways. I’ve tried to broke that off, get into her skin and make her a bit softer for a day and then I felt like im done. In the past, she used to do silent treatment to me saying “don’t speak to me again” and then disappearing for weeks, days, months and then I always found a way to break her stance. Maybe not this time. We’re adults now and I am tired.

    And now, she has started doing the bare minimum, which should be a “yaay” moment for me. But still it’s not, I am hoping that I wouldn’t be used in this dynamic. Because she still prioritizes her gym, her socializing, just not with me bcz i am too busy (and she has been resented me for that over the last year) and I am trying to check on her always and she does not even give me her daily schedule. Lies when she can, about the free language course she’s taking. So I am at the same time resenting her a little bit, but there is no space for me to express my emotions when all those drama is there between her and her brother. Her brother also resents her for prioritizing socializing and gym things. So it’s not a secret.

    It’s like I am fighting with her ego, and that’s why I want to understand ego better. It’s creating issues for me, i can understand why a person would not like to get told what to do from someone her own age, but we’re at this stage because she hasn’t listened to her brother before.

    And I don’t want to tricked by my own ego games. Like when she interrupts, I am different now. Before, I used to let her interrupt regardless of what we talked about, our problems or work. But now, I don’t let her interrupt easily, I continue my words with a slightly increased volume when she interrupts. I don’t intend to let her disrespect me anymore, I guess I am out of my tolerance for this specific dynamic. I deserve respect, and if she’s not giving me that, then idk.

    But these thoughts might stem from my ego at the same time. So it’s like, when she is replying to me in a egoistic way, it can be like, I am asking her to do something,

    She does it, but does not quite do it in the folder I shared instead opening up a new folder or a document, something. Or she does a part of it and then tells me “you can now complete by adding…” like ordering me a part of the task. It’s almost like, her ego finds a way, a small area to feel that satisfaction. I’ve been observing this pattern in her and I tend to reply in the way I find pragmatic. Like, “I have no time to check, can you make sure you add that? I leave responsibility to you, please lead this task” etc. etc…

    I feel like I don’t want to be a hallway for her ego to exist, I wouldn’t want to get even more tired and also have my own ego to feel bruised there? Over something that I feel right about.

    Weird dramas, weird situations but I am trying to believe that all my efforts will have results but in the same time I am losing my friends one by one.

    #441715
    Arden
    Participant

    I think what has happened is that in this one year, she learned to see me as that person who loved to work and neglect people for work. She thinks I prefer to live this way. And she might even thought that she was being “understanding” because she was “understanding” sometimes that I could not do social events with her. Always trying to squeeze my socializing with her in between things.

    This thought creates a space for her to not feel sorry for me. (at least that’s what i could think of..)

    In the last lashing out, she told me she thinks I blame her for my way of living. I don’t think I do, but who knows.

    Unnecessary dramas, I should move on from these. Not talking does not help so I need to do the talking in my head, on my own. Sorry to dump these to you, i feel inclined to say feel free to ignore because I think these are, really, unnecessary. I will just read more about ego.

    #441725
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Arden:

    It’s a good feeling for me, a very good feeling every time you submit a post and I get to read from you. Thank you for sharing your thoughtful reflections and experiences once again. It’s clear that you’ve been navigating a very complex and challenging situation, and your insights are both profound and valuable.

    It’s good to read that you’ve found clarity and understanding about the importance of personal space. Recognizing its value in your busy life is indeed one of the most crucial lessons, and prioritizing it can significantly improve your well-being.

    Your feelings of resentment towards your friend are completely valid. It’s challenging when someone’s way of helping doesn’t fit your needs and preferences. Effective communication is key, and it’s understandable that it is difficult to bond with someone who doesn’t respect your ways. Reflecting on how you might have similar tendencies shows your deep self-awareness and willingness to grow.

    Your ongoing journey to understand and manage ego is admirable. It’s a complex aspect of human nature and your recognition of its role in your professional dynamics with your friend and her brother is insightful.

    It reads like you’ve been working incredibly hard to support and motivate your friend, despite the challenges. Your dedication and efforts are commendable. It’s understandable to feel stressed and resentful when your hard work isn’t reciprocated or appreciated.

    Maintaining your self-respect and setting boundaries is essential. Your approach to not allowing interruptions and asserting yourself shows your growth and determination to be treated with the respect you deserve. Balancing this with an understanding of your own ego is a nuanced challenge, and you’re handling it with great thoughtfulness.

    The overlapping of professional and personal boundaries can indeed create complicated dynamics. It’s important to recognize your limits and take care of your well-being amidst these challenges. Your efforts to communicate and find common ground show your commitment to resolving conflicts, even when it’s difficult.

    It’s okay to feel tired and to need a break from the constant effort. Your well-being is important, and sometimes stepping back and reflecting can provide new perspectives. Reading more about ego and continuing to grow your understanding will undoubtedly help you navigate these challenges.

    Thank you for sharing your journey. It’s not easy to articulate such complex emotions and experiences, and your openness is truly valuable. Wishing you strength, clarity, and peace as you continue to navigate these intricate dynamics.

    anita

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