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Too invested in others- feeling tired of that

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  • #450358
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Milda: I am sorry that I ran out of time today, but I will get back to you Sat morning (it’s Fri afternoon here). Take care!

    #450367
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Milda:

    As much as you ever cared about anyone else, as much as you ever placed anyone else (other than you) as No 1 in your life- it’s your turn now. It’s time for you to place you (MILDA) as No 1- not as No 1 in the whole universe-

    Just No 1 in this one life- your own.

    ???

    Anita

    #450377
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Milda:

    I finally have the time to read and reply to your recent post attentively. I’ll be typing whatever comes to mind as I respond to what you wrote:

    “I can’t stop thinking about the elephant story. Something very fundamental is keeping me stuck in this rope. I think the belief engraved in childhood that I am worthy and lovable only if I constantly give to others is one of those.”-

    So, the Rope is the Constantly Giving to other people (a behavior) as a way to feel worthy and lovable.

    “The real truth is that everyone is responsible for their life, problem solving, emotions, but in me, this is 180 degrees different- it’s that I am responsible for this.”-

    The Rope is also the Untrue Core Belief that you are responsible for what you are not responsible for. It’s a core belief that fuels the constant giving behavior.

    “These fundamental programs installed in me keep me stuck. I try to change them by reading books, talking to a therapist, giving myself space and time. None of this helps. I’m still stuck in this rope and the old programs won’t let me get out of it… I just do not know what else I should try, in order to be scared, be guilty, but still do the work of change.”-

    There is an issue of brain-body chemistry. Neurotransmitters as well as hormones are in the habit of being released following certain triggers, in certain amounts/ combinations, producing the scared, guilty feelings, as well as maintaining the core belief and fueling behaviors.

    The Rope is also the current and long-term Brain Body Chemistry.

    Reading books (or reading tis very post0, talking to a therapist, etc. don’t change brain chemistry.

    I am now going back to the beginning of your thread..

    On Oct 27, 2023, you shared: “I was text messaging with my mother… she replied:… I physically felt a stress reaction: my heart was racing, head spinning, felt nervous, scared and had an immediate thoughts of ‘I HAVE TO DO SOMETHING, I HAVE TO SOLVE IT, HOW CAN I COMFORT MY MOTHER, HOW TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM FOR HER”-

    If I understand correctly, you perceived something dangerous in her reply, a threat to her safety, or to yours=> your brain sent a signal to the adrenal glands (located on top of the kidneys) to produce the hormone Adrenaline which flooded your system so to sharpen your focus and prepare for action. Cortisol, the stress hormone, was also produced and released by the same glands.

    I read (Copilot) that “Cortisol heightens vigilance, narrows attention, and can reinforce habitual thought loops—especially around responsibility and problem-solving.”- Cortisol.. The Rope?

    Oxytocin, another hormone, this one produced in the brain, is attachment-related, it’s responsible for the impulse to comfort your mother, “Oxytocin can amplify the drive to soothe others—especially caregivers—when they’re distressed.” Dopamine, primarily a neurotransmitter that’s produced in the brain, is responsible for “seeking relief through action” (solving other people’s problems).

    Copilot: “Brain chemistry plays a central role in shaping our feelings, thoughts, and behaviors… But here’s the liberating truth: neuroplasticity is real. The brain can rewire itself—even in adulthood. It’s not easy, but it’s possible. Here’s how someone can succeed even when old chemistry resists:

    1. Repetition rewires- Habits are built through repeated neural firing. To change them, you need consistent, intentional practice—even if it feels unnatural at first.

    Example: Replacing a self-critical thought with a compassionate one, daily, begins to shift the default pathway.

    2. Somatic and emotional regulation- Practices like breathwork, movement, EMDR, or somatic experiencing help discharge stored emotional energy and calm the nervous system… Somatic Experiencing (SE) is a body-based therapeutic approach designed to help people release trauma and regulate their nervous system—without needing to relive or retell the traumatic event in detail.

    Developed by Dr. Peter Levine, SE is grounded in the idea that trauma isn’t just stored in the mind—it’s held in the body…Instead of focusing on the story, SE guides people to notice physical sensations (tightness, heat, trembling, numbness).
    These sensations are clues to where the body is holding stress or trauma… It’s a way of saying: ‘Your body remembers. Let’s help it feel safe again.’

    3. Relational safety- Healing in connection—whether through therapy, community, or attuned relationships—can reshape attachment patterns and soothe hypervigilant circuits.

    Feeling seen and safe helps the brain learn: “I’m not in danger anymore.”…

    6. Sometimes, biochemical support helps- For some, medication or nutritional support can rebalance neurotransmitters, making change more accessible….

    So yes, the chemistry is real. But it’s not destiny. The brain is a living system, shaped by experience, intention, and relationship. And when someone commits to change with clarity and support, even the most stubborn loops can soften.”

    End of quote.

    What do you think, Milda? Personally, I need to get into the SE practice mentioned above..

    🌿 🤍 Anita

    #450388
    Milda
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    Your ability to indicate reasons behind the behavior and implement such information as chemistry, hormones-just simple human biology- is incredible! I want to say an earth huge thank you for your time and intentions, answering my messages. I am thankful from the bottom of my heart ❤️

    By reading what you wrote,I came up with the realisation. During my whole life, when I had situations where I said “no” and my parents guilt tripped me for that, said something shameful, insulting, I always felt (and still feel) this high rush in my body, indicating stress, scariness, unsafety, a mix of enormously unpleasant feelings, as if I am doing something majorly wrong. Once I felt that I always received such feelings as a signal of STOP, a signal of: do something so they are not angry with you. I believe this is the biggest issue- that I feel scared, I feel a bad daughter (by my parents terms) and I immediately stop what I wanted to do- I stop setting boundaries, I stop saying what I believe, what are my needs. Those parents’ reactions are a true stop signs to me and I never try again.

    To be able to feel all of these unpleasant emotions, to hear parents’ insulting, hurtful words, to hear mothers “How dare you think about yourself when there are other people, you are not the centre of the word” and still do what I want to do. To feel guilty, but still not do what I do not want to. To feel the urge to fix somebody’s problem, but not fix it.

    To feel X, but still do it. But still keep boundary. But still not do what I do not want to.

    Maybe this could be the core? To start feeling scared and still act in a new healthy way. To feel as the wort daughter, friend, girlfriend, live with this feeling, let it be, but still keep on my track.

    #450391
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Milda:

    You are very welcome, and thank you for your appreciation and kindness ❤️

    As I was reading the second paragraph of your post right above, the image of a child touching a hot stove for the first time came to my mind. Developing the image: the kid didn’t know how it would feel to touch a hot stove until she touched it. She never thought about it, didn’t consider it. She touches it. Consequence: the alarming, painful sensation of burning. She moves her hand ASAP away from the stove. From then on, she remembers and doesn’t touch a stove until she makes sure it’s not hot.

    Similarly, in the beginning, you didn’t know that saying “no” was.. like touching a hot stove, didn’t even cross your mind, so you said “no”. Consequence: the alarming, painful sensation of guilt and shame. (“when I had situations where I said ‘no’ and my parents guilt tripped me for that, said something shameful, insulting”)

    From then on, you remember. You don’t say “no”, and you want to make sure the stove is not hot/ you make sure they’re not angry with you (“a signal: do something so they are not angry with you”).

    The touching a hot stove story makes sense. It really is, objectively, dangerous to touch a hot stove and keep the hand there.
    On the other hand, it is healthy and helpful to say “no” and set boundaries. But alas! The kid is punished for healthy behaviors, and the result: doing what’s healthy feels dangerous.

    What to do?

    Maybe understand more, for one, how wrong it is for a parent to guilt trip and shame a child for something healthy. A post ago, you wrote: “I do not blame anyone”. For the purpose of healing, it might be helpful to assign blame where it clearly belongs.

    Anger is a natural response to being wronged (guilt-tripped, shamed and insulted for healthy behaviors). Anger may give you the strength, or courage to reclaim your human right to say “no” and set healthy boundaries.

    Not Anger Forever. Not explosive, or abusive anger. Just enough of it to counter the fear (“To start feeling scared and still act in a new healthy way.”), and to give the “bad” that they threw at you back to them (“I believe this is the biggest issue- that I feel scared, I feel a bad daughter (by my parents terms)”)

    For the longest time, I had this core belief, set so early on by being repeatedly guilt-tripped, shamed and insulted by my mother, that I was a BAD daughter. For many years I tried so hard to become a good daughter (by my mother’s terms), but never accomplished that goal.

    Fast forward, I handed her the BAD (in regard to the guilt-tripping and shaming), and the result: no more bad for me to carry (in regard to having been guilt-tripped and shamed by her). The bad is for the one inflicting shame to carry, not for the victim of the infliction to carry.

    What do you think, Milda?

    🌿 🤍 Anita

    #450393
    Milda
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    Definitely agree that parents are the ones that did not provide emotional safety and programmed me for unhealthy behavior to be seen as healthy as vice versa.

    I do blame them, I am angry, I am sad at the same time. But I want to move further. Their programs are heavy burdens to me not only for my relationship with them, it is any other area as well. So my goal is to start making changes. Yet that stress feeling in the gut, that rush of hormones, leading me to STOPPING and not going further with stating my needs, boundaries no matter what their response is, this is not letting me get out of that unhealthy way of living. So I want to find a way for making it through. I could wait until I am not scared, brave, but that time might never come. So to be that kid, scared of the oven, but once again checking it, because oven is not always hot, this is what needs to happen.

    But their words hit me like a bullet. Mom’s sadness hits me like the hardest weight. Father’s scepticism and narcisim is like a punch in the face.
    No matter how many books I read, their one sentence gets me into guilt and old behavior…

    #450398
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Milda:

    “their one sentence gets me into guilt and old behavior…”- it took me 10+ years of no contact with my mother, more than 10 years of not hearing her voice irl.. to actually stop hearing her voice. More than a decade.

    Her voice, shaming, guilt-tripping, so powerful in my psych.. a dominating, domineering voice. A cruel voice.

    “their words hit me like a bullet”- I relate. Like a bullet.

    I’ll write more in the morning.

    Anita

    #450406
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Milda,

    I’m sorry you’re suffering, but it’s amazing how aware you are, and willing to make a move. You said that 2 years ago, you might not have been ready, but since then, you’ve ready many books and learned a lot about codependency and its causes.

    But even though you understand the problem on the theoretical level, you say you still can’t make a significant change in practice, because your parents’ negative reaction immediately sends you back into that place, emotionally, where you feel guilty and unable to set boundaries.

    I have people in my surroundings who struggle with codependency, and have been reading about it lately. And I’ve come across the teachings of Lisa Romano, a coach and best-selling author, who herself was codependent but found a way to break through, using methods that involve healing the inner child, i.e. learning how to respond in a different way, learning emotional detachment, etc.

    She says that codependency is a trauma response, where the child is trying to manage and help their parent(s), so they would be more or less functional and/or non-threatening to the child, so that the child would feel a measure of safety. Basically, she’s saying that codependency is a survival strategy.

    And as such, it is deeply ingrained in our nervous system. Each time we want to stand up for ourselves and set boundaries, the fear of rejection (and perhaps even existential fear) gets triggered, and we immediately slip into the old fight-or-flight response, where we give up on our needs, in order to please our parents.

    That’s what Anita was talking about too: the brain-body chemistry and the need to work on the somatic level too, not only cognitively.

    You say talk therapy hasn’t helped you, and Lisa Romano talks about it too. She says that constantly talking about past trauma, but without learning and applying the tools to self-regulate, is only going to strengthen those trauma circuits in the brain. So I can imagine that classical talk therapy can even be counter-productive, when it comes to dealing with codependency.

    Anyway, in case you’re interested, there’s a video in which Lisa Romano explains her method. It’s on youtube, and the title is “Codependency is a trauma response/Healing starts with ending denial.”

    It’s a long video, in which she also advertises her 12-week healing program. But nevertheless, she makes many great points in that video (if you’re in a rush, you can start watching at minute 10). She also gives an exercise for “interrupting the old patterns” (which starts at about min 29). I’ve tried it, and it’s really cool.

    She also has a book, titled: “Codependent – Now What?“, which I’ve just purchased, and so far it seems very illuminating.

    You said:

    To be able to feel all of these unpleasant emotions, to hear parents’ insulting, hurtful words, to hear mothers “How dare you think about yourself when there are other people, you are not the centre of the word” and still do what I want to do. To feel guilty, but still not do what I do not want to. To feel the urge to fix somebody’s problem, but not fix it.

    Yes, that’s the goal! Emotional self-regulation is key. When the trigger comes, to notice the old, habitual feelings of fear rising, but instead of giving in to the old pattern of people pleasing, we stay present with our feelings and we tell ourselves that we’re safe, for example. Lisa Romano’s exercise is something along those lines.

    The goal is to first become aware of our habitual thinking/reacting process, and not slip into it automatically (like on an automatic pilot), but to include our conscious awareness (our prefrontal cortex) as an observer. That seems to be the first step in reprogramming our old, subconscious patterns.

    I hope this was helpful to you, Milda, and that it will give you ideas for the next step. You seem very ready to take it ❤️

    #450407
    Tee
    Participant

    * oops, wrong formatting in that one paragraph. It wasn’t supposed to be all italic.

    #450408
    Milda
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    How great to see your message! I feel honoured that Anita and now you as well are interested in helping me, I’m so thankful for this ❤️ Situation in which I am is very isolating, nobody understands me truly. I will watch a video you suggested, never heard of this woman, thanks!

    Yes, codependent behavior worked for me as a child, because I learned that it will keep me “safe” (now I see it as imaginary safety, because you are never truly safe, if safety is conditional and depends on how you manage parents’ emotions and struggles). As safety is human being’s foundation, this is why it might be extremelly hard to make changes. It’s like cutting yourself and at the same time reading a book , which says that cutting won’t damage you, it will only activate cells (for example).

    I’m dealing with the core, which is my parents, my programs that kept me SAFE during childhood. I start to think that there is no option to change. Because it’s like being born with brown hair and work towards the blond- yes, you can use hair dye, but your hair will keep on growing and roots will always show your real color.

    If I just come back to the old behavior, I would be extremelly unhappy, stressed for the rest of my life. But everyone around me will be very comfortable. I want to be happy. I really, truly want to be happy and free.

    I’m so very lost and scared. It’s devastating. 😔

    #450410
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Milda,

    you’re very welcome!

    Yes, codependent behavior worked for me as a child, because I learned that it will keep me “safe” (now I see it as imaginary safety, because you are never truly safe, if safety is conditional and depends on how you manage parents’ emotions and struggles).

    Yes, your safety and the sense of well-being depend on your parents’ feelings and emotional states/moods. And so if they feel upset, you need to do something to calm them down. Or if they feel distressed and unable to perform normal daily tasks, you jump in, so things wouldn’t fall apart.

    From what I’ve seen from people in my surroundings, a lot of it is damage control, or damage prevention. And it’s hard to let go if you feel that something really bad is going to happen to Mom or Dad, and that you’ll be responsible for it (because you were conditioned your entire life to believe that you’re responsible for your parents and that you need to take care of their needs, and if you don’t, you’re a bad daughter).

    This kind of conditioning is typical for narcissistic parents, and you said that your father might have narcissistic features: Father’s scepticism and narcisim is like a punch in the face

    With narcissistic parents, things are much worse, because they feel entitled and they don’t really care about their child’s needs. And so this stance – that their needs come first and that you, as their child, should serve them – is very natural to them. And then they tend to shame and guilt the child for wanting to break free from that servant/caretaker role.

    There is an amazing youtube channel by a psychotherapist Jerry Wise, who specializes in narcissistic parents and how we can break free from their conditioning. In a video entitled “Narcissistic parents: how they make you a highly reactive adult“, he says among other things that codependency is a fawn response (min 6:30), which is another trauma response (besides fight, flight or freeze).

    So yeah, children of narcissistic parents, specially when there was addiction involved, are susceptible to becoming caretakers and codependent. It’s not just you, Milda, but many children from similar backgrounds. Luckily, there is a way out.

    I’m dealing with the core, which is my parents, my programs that kept me SAFE during childhood. I start to think that there is no option to change. Because it’s like being born with brown hair and work towards the blond- yes, you can use hair dye, but your hair will keep on growing and roots will always show your real color.

    I get what you’re saying. I think that so far you felt that change isn’t possible, because those trauma responses are written in your subconscious mind, in your nervous system. They’re a part of your “operating system”, so to speak. But thankfully, there are ways to reprogram that operating system, and one of the ways I believe is a program offered by Lisa Romano.

    Jerry Wise also has an online course about breaking free from narcissistic parents. I don’t know if he offers somatic methods, such as reprogramming of the subconscious mind and learning new patterns. But his youtube videos are top quality, he has an amazing insight, so I would assume that he too offers a solid method to heal from those old patterns.

    If I just come back to the old behavior, I would be extremelly unhappy, stressed for the rest of my life. But everyone around me will be very comfortable. I want to be happy. I really, truly want to be happy and free.

    I hear you, Milda. You don’t need to keep the status quo. You don’t need to sacrifice yourself and your own happiness for your parents or anyone else. You deserve to live the life that makes you happy.

    It doesn’t mean you suddenly turn your back on everyone and become selfish. It simply means that you stop abandoning yourself and your own needs, your own desires, your own goals and dreams. You have the right to be your own person, independent of the whims and demands of your parents.

    I hope you feel a little less scared and alone by now. There are resources and people that can help you. There is a way out!

    I am rooting for you, Milda ❤️

    If you need any pointers, or would like to talk about anything at all, I’m here…

    #450411
    Milda
    Participant

    “you feel that something really bad is going to happen to Mom or Dad, and that you’ll be responsible for it”- this is so true. The biggest part of why I do struggle is that I believe that if during this time when I do not communicate with parents something happens to them, to their health, it is my fault. That I an responsible for their health in a sense. Yesterday my mother actually guilt tripped me again as she sent me money and said that this is the birthday money from my grandmother and that at least to call and say thank you would be kind. I didn’t ask for it, my birthday was two months ago, so when I cut contact with her, she thought that I would soothe her by contacting grandmother as she wish. I said that she is not giving me needed space and that I feel bad if gifts are coming with conditions and expectations. So, she pushed the button in me by saying:” well we are not the center of the world, there are still ALIVE relatives.”. So she made me feel that because of the way I decided to not communicate for a while, I am doing wrong for all other relatives, that my need for such space doesn’t matter, because there are ALIVE FAMILY MEMBERS that I should consider. It was always like this, it was always a focus on others by them and this guilt trips me like crazy. If grandmother dies, she might find a way to somehow make me feel that didn’t communicate enough, didn’t nourish the time she was alive, wasn’t doing ENOUGH FOR OTHERS.

    I know I will be a mother in the future. I can’t imagine putting that much pressure on my child. On a child I should be just happy that he exists, not by how much he does for others. It’s like a was born with a tag “Born for everyone, use by your needs, parents do not protect this child from usage”.

    😔❤️

    #450419
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Milda:

    “So, she pushed the button in me by saying: ‘well we are not the center of the world, there are still ALIVE relatives.'”-

    What if you answered her (in your mind, at the least): I AM ALIVE and I AM IN THE CENTER of this one world: MY OWN LIFE!

    Neither you nor grandmother or any other living or dead relative deserve to be the center of my personal world!

    It’s MINE, not YOURS!

    I typed the above feeling angry. I mean, how dare she!

    How does it feel to you, Milda.. my anger right above?

    “I’m so very lost and scared. It’s devastating. 😔”- this is pain that was inflicted on you, wouldn’t be if you had parents who had mercy on you. Your pain is heartbreaking.

    And it’s similar to the pain I carried with me most of my life.

    You deserve healing, Milda. you deserve reclaiming center stage in your own life!

    🤍🌿 Anita

    #450425
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Milda,

    The biggest part of why I do struggle is that I believe that if during this time when I do not communicate with parents something happens to them, to their health, it is my fault. That I an responsible for their health in a sense

    Yes, and that’s because you were conditioned to feel responsible for your parents. If I got this right, it seems you were mostly focused on your mother’s feelings and cheering her up, because she often felt sad and overwhelmed, living with an alcoholic husband (your father).

    I think this here sums up nicely how you feel about your mother:

    I feel the same and I let those thoughts and emotions control me the exact same way that it did when I was a child- keeping mom’s company, cheering her up, comforting her and doing everything I can to fix the situation and how mom is feeling.

    Mom’s sadness hits me like the hardest weight.

    You took responsibility for your mother’s feelings and were trying to do everything in your power to alleviate her pain. You took the role of her emotional caretaker: you were in charge of meeting her emotional needs, while your emotional needs were not met at all. You’ve talked about this role reversal already with Anita.

    So you were a parentified child, serving as a surrogate parent to your mother. Perhaps she did fulfill her parental duties in terms of taking care of your physical needs (did she?), but she definitely failed taking care of your emotional needs.

    It seems your mother wasn’t willing or able to take responsibility for her own life, but was basically dumping her sadness, frustration and worry onto you. She had an unhealthy dynamic with your father, but she chose to stay in that dynamic and vent to you, making you responsible for comforting her and making her feel better.

    It seems that she also expected you to be in that role – it’s not just that you’re such an empathic person and took over that role willingly, but there was an element of emotional manipulation on her part.

    For example, she expected you to speak to your sister after your sister had a big argument with your mother and told her she would never speak to her again. She expected you (and nudged you) to fix the problem with your sister, instead of trying to fix it herself:

    During one conflict in our family, my sister got very angry and left the home, said to mom that she will never talk to her again and from that moment my mother was crushed (father is just never talking about this as it never happened), but mother used to say to me, that I have to talk to sister, I have to fix this

    I feel a huge guilt inside of me that I am not trying to fix anything, because living without my sister in my life is all good to me, I never miss her, but seeing that my mother is devastated because of that makes me want to comfort her and get back with my sister JUST BECAUSE OF HER, not because I WANT I

    In this instance too you served as your mother’s comforter, because she wasn’t willing to take responsibility for her own emotions. She expected you to do whatever needed to make her feel better (in this case, resume contact with your sister), even if you yourself didn’t want it, i.e. even if it went against your own wishes and your own emotional needs.

    In other words, your mother’s emotional needs and preferences have overridden yours: her feelings are important, yours are not. And that’s the message she has been sending you all along, ever since your childhood. That’s the conditioning you were brought up with.

    Would you say this is true, Milda?

    If so, I’d say that perhaps one of the first things you could do is start telling yourself something like: “My feelings matter. I have the right to feel how I feel. I am allowed to honor my feelings. I am allowed to feel what I feel.”

    So, allowing yourself to feel the entire spectrum of emotions, which you were not allowed to, because your mother would have been hurt or offended.

    I guess the best would be to do it a safe setting, with a trusted therapist, where you can express those emotions, while having a safe container to hold you.

    You’re definitely allowed to feel your emotions – you’re not a bad daughter if your emotions don’t align with those of your mother, and if your wishes don’t align with your mother’s. You’re a separate person, and owning and respecting your emotions is a part of that.

    How does this sound?

    #450432
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Milda,

    I’ve just found a beautiful guided meditation for healing the inner child, by the same coach, Lisa Romano. To me, it feels very loving and grounding, while it gently reminds us of the truth of who we are.

    I thought to share it with you, in case you find it useful…

    The title is “Guided Healing Inner Child Meditation/ What if you knew you were enough“. It’s on Lisa Romano’s youtube channel.

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