Trying to get over a fling

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This topic has 115 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 5 years, 11 months ago by Feathering my nest.

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October 24, 2018 at 12:39 pm #233047

Anonymous
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Dear Still Feathering:

I am not focused enough and will need to read your recent post in about fifteen hours when I am back to the computer. For now I have a comment about something you wrote previously today: “I would say the anger was repressed and experienced as anxiety” and in your recent post, “Why does this anger manifest as anxiety?”- it is a general comment, not in relation to your individual situation, it may or may not be helpful to it, here it is nonetheless:

in regard to fear (anxiety is ongoing fear) and anger in humans and in other animals, when danger is perceived, there is fear. The fear motivates an animal to run away (the Flight response). If the threat cannot be escaped, then there is the secondary emotion, anger which motivates an animal to fight (the Fight response).

So first fear, then anger, not the other way around.

An animal’s expression of anger in itself is a danger to the recipient of that anger, and so, aggression (the threatening expression of anger) leads to fear in the one whose the target of that anger.

Is this helpful?

Be back tomorrow morning.

anita

October 25, 2018 at 5:42 am #233199

Anonymous
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Dear Feathering my nest

(or Still Feathering, which do you prefer?):

“Why does this anger manifest as anxiety? Why do I repress this and turn it inwards?”- the anxiety is about being heard and then rejected, I think it is about you expecting to be heard and then being rejected. And you get angry again, for not being taken seriously once again. There is a lot of hurt in being unheard, misunderstood, rejected, dismissed.

“I am more invested in the relationship than they are- which for me is always a sign to get out”- you get out because you are afraid of feeling pain, the pain you already felt before, you don’t want to feel it again. We fear pain. So you get out, that Flight response to fear that I mentioned before.

“I’ve been aware of this for some time and tried to approach it rationally, yet the results are always the same”. If we were rational beings, like computerized robots, then a rational understanding would have been enough and you would be able to get different results. But we are emotional beings, like other animals. We are motivated by emotions, not by thoughts.

“you can do all the nice things but it won’t make them love you.. it’s down to some mysterious force that otherwise eludes me”. If a person loves you, it is because he was a loving person before ever meeting you, before you came into his or her life. If a person is unloving, too closed, too rough, too lost, there is nothing you can do to make him love you. If it is not in him, you can’t get it out of him.

“I then consistently feel unloved and unappreciated”- without healing and the experiencing of something new, we keep experiencing our childhood. We feel the same way we felt then.

“I don’t feel I can even talk to whomever I’m dating about what is going on because I’m worried it will scare them off”- how did it work for you, is my question. Has it been effective for you to not talk to whomever you dated about what is going on, has a loving relationship materialize as a result?

I agree with you regarding the term emotionally unavailable and many other terms used frequently, these terms force people into rigid categories that do not exist except on paper, mask the basics and blur the view of what is really going on.

anita

October 25, 2018 at 1:01 pm #233359
Feathering my nest
Participant
Hey Anita.

I’m still ‘feathering my nest’ – meaning I am still figuring this out. I don’t mind which you call me. Thanks for asking.

I’m ready and willing to go deep this time, as much as my temperament has made me averse to such things. It’s taking its toll in my normal life as I am distinctly lacking in focus at the moment. Taking care of myself otherwise, while I process. I’ve got a handle on this.

There is a big discussion to be had about this;

“I agree with you regarding the term emotionally unavailable and many other terms used frequently, these terms force people into rigid categories that do not exist except on paper, mask the basics and blur the view of what is really going on.”

Although its not specific to me – once I get my head around some other things first – I would like to start a thread for a more general discussion on this topic, I’d be interested to hear what others have to say on the topic. (Just for curiosity/philosophical sake.)

As for me, myself. My thoughts are;-

1- it is possible that some of these men I dated did indeed love me, I just could not see it. (Bias confirmation.)

2- this deep anger and fear is probably what is keeping me isolated. a subtle soft and subversive anger that unwittingly keeps people at bay. several ex-boyfriends have told me I am an angry person. it must bleed out of my pores without my noticing – ernstwhile I’m stuck in a tornado of thoughts and feelings, trying to ‘save the relationship’, feeling deeply rejected, wanting to communicate but unwittingly shutting it down with my own hostility: passive aggressive or otherwise.

2.1 – i probably don’t even notice when I behave in angry and inhospitable ways because I am so caught up in my own tornado. (one to unpick with the therapist, I think.)

3- I know I ‘reject before I get rejected’ (this follows from 2 & 3.) and this is either outright anger, or outright dismissive behavior. lashing out, if you will. im probably very sensitive to perceived rejection and cope with it by getting angry or getting distant.

4- I think a lot of the pop-psychology god-awfulness fuels the fire of those above issues in a very underhand manner. ive had this gut feeling for a long time that they do this, although I struggle to fully put my finger on the how and the why. annoyingly because ive had a lack of faith (or lacked the structure) to disassemble this part of myself for so long, googling whatever is stressing me out and ‘reading around’ the topic has become this mad obsession when im in the tornado. it only makes things worse I know, but it is this mad and embarrassing habit that I struggle to break.

5- I’ve never been ABLE to talk about it with people I date about my issues, because I’ve never been able to get my head around it. Things are becoming clearer now.

Another reason, now I think of it, as to why I fell for this guy: he’s a singing teacher and I always thought I couldn’t sing. He taught me somewhat, and helped me ‘find my voice’ so I could make myself heard. It was liberating and made me so happy. I’ve almost lost my speaking voice since we argued. 🙁 Its weird.

From the perspective of people I date; I probably come off as non-committal, invested in a half-hearted sort of way, someone who occasionally does very sweet and thoughtful things, but has this prickly quality. For men I do feel a connection with- I imagine its confusing when I suddenly get attached and, instead of being open about that, I start acting in ways that are not appropriate for the circumstances – getting overly upset, overly critical or overly angry. Since I don’t get the ‘response’ I want I feel rejected again and it feeds the cycle.

Those are my thoughts.

Thank you for sitting though this with me, Anita.

XX
- This reply was modified 6 years ago by Feathering my nest.
- This reply was modified 6 years ago by Feathering my nest.
October 26, 2018 at 7:41 am #233479

Anonymous
Guest

Dear Feathering my nest:

We don’t want pain. We have that in common with all animals, the instinct to move away from pain.

What caused you pain as a child, that did not involve the intellect. The thoughts you formed then did not involve fancy words. Sometimes there were no words at all, only pain. But when there were thoughts, those were simple short sentences. And it took place before you read any self help books. It happened before you learned to detach as you do now and observe yourself from a distance, as if you were a curious lab specimen that you study and marvel at.

If you want to address that pain, to take a short cut and save yourself a lot of time, express your pain like a five year old would. Use simple, short sentences.

Easier said then done. Like anyone else, I too don’t want to feel more pain.

anita

October 26, 2018 at 9:08 am #233515

Feathering my nest
Participant

Ok-

I am deeply hurt, I feel unloved and unwanted. I miss him and wish I could turn back time and do differently, with the this understanding gained. I can see how my relationship strategy is not a winning one and how I am the maker of my own misery.

I don’t want to start again with someone else. I am so tired of feeling this way. I want these feelings to ease or I want to vanish so I don’t have to continue to be consumed by them.

I am a hungry ghost with the glitter of grief running between my fingers.

I wonder if it is worth trying to talk to this man again- once my feelings have settled down and I am able to be clear in what I want.

This assault issue may well go to court, I was assaulted and a friend of mine was punched by the same person. So I may well encounter this man as part of that issue, since he is my only witness to my assualt.

October 26, 2018 at 9:42 am #233521

Anonymous
Guest

Dear Feathering my nest:

You were trying to express yourself as a five year old, I understand. A five year old will not want to “turn back time” or have an “understanding gained”, nor would she have a “relationship strategy”. As a matter of fact, a five year old is never “the maker of (her) own misery”. Just saying.

I would like you to do better at it. Really, write like you are a five year old. It may take you relaxing first, maybe a hot bath, to… relax that intellectual prowess of yours (as impressive as it is, and it is).

“I am a hungry ghost with the glitter of grief running between my fingers”-beautifully put, poetic. How would you express this as a five year old?

Feel the feelings first, then type.

I read regarding you wanting to talk to him and regarding the assault case going to court, possibly.

anita

October 27, 2018 at 9:43 am #233709
Feathering my nest
Participant
Left alone, again.

Nobody likes me enough to want to be with me.

Nobody wants me enough. They don’t love me enough.

Something is wrong with me, but I don’t know what.

I will always be alone.

(That is the hardest question you’ve asked me yet.)

RE: the hungry ghost.

I don’t think a 5 year old would understand the full implications of what I mean by this.

Grief is like glitter because you find it everywhere. It hides in plain view sometimes.

I’m sure you know of the hungry ghosts already: desperately trying to resolve a past hurt. They want to have satisfaction but they cannot drink or swallow or eat and therefore, can never satisfy themselves. They cannot understand the futility in trying to change what happened in the past.

This is a side-note but I wanted to share:

Last night I went to see an exhibition on witchcraft and wizzardy, it was a temmporary exhibition taken from the museum of witchcraft in Boscatle, Cornwall, UK. So old school pagan witch-craft, part of our cultural heritage.

For 5 years now, I have a ‘sculpture to fragility’ in my room. It is a rounded fish-bowl with a crack in it. Inside is a birds nest, resting on a pile of black tissue paper. Inside the nest are some broken egg-shells, some feathers and a dead rose head. It sits alongside a stag skull and resides over my bedroom. Its a little shrine of mine and I pay my respects to it after yoga, meditation, or after a particularly emotional event.

In this exhibition, was a birds nest with tissue paper and broken eggs: exactly like the one I have at home. Apparently, its an old spell that spinsters used to cast – they would list their wishes in a partner on paper and hide it in birds nests.

My name – Feathering my nest- is because I used to use the nickname ‘Birdsnest’ on other forums and online after the birds nest in my shrine.

xx
- This reply was modified 6 years ago by Feathering my nest.
October 27, 2018 at 10:23 am #233721

Anonymous
Guest

Dear Feathering my nest:

I read the first part of your post, typed away and then lost my post to you, an emotional one, where I did the exercise of talking like a five year old myself. Well, I will be back to your thread in about 17 hours, will re-read and respond then. The five year old exercise you did above, you did well: your five year old reached mine.

Be back tomorrow morning.

anita

October 28, 2018 at 1:49 am #233783

Feathering my nest
Participant

Sending my love to you – I know how rough that 5 year old feeling is.

I woke up and cried my eyes out today. 🙁

x

October 28, 2018 at 5:49 am #233793

Anonymous
Guest

Dear Feathering my nest:

I am not at the emotional state I was in yesterday. I will quote from you and develop my thinking, see what happens: “Left alone, again. Nobody likes me.. Nobody wants me.. Something is wrong with me, but I don’t know what. I will always be alone”. “Grief is like glitter because you find it everywhere… desperately trying… They (ghosts) want to have satisfaction (of hunger) but they cannot drink or swallow or eat”

Regarding what I italicized: the experience of the five year old, of a young child is of nobody/always/everywhere. There is no balance to the thinking of a child, a spectrum of feelings, or a sense of time. It is either this or that. No middle. So when her mother doesn’t like her, nobody likes her. When she is not liked today, she will never be liked. For a child in pain, pain is everywhere and forever.

Unless magic happens, another characteristic of child thinking, waiting for it, wishing for it.

For the young child, hungry for love for too long, she no longer feels alive, she feels like a ghost (my image was the living-dead as in the movie). She is just existing, waiting for what she wants, wanting and waiting for that breath of life, aka love.

Waiting and wanting for so long, she doesn’t know that love is not there, she thinks she doesn’t deserve it because there is something wrong with her. She thinks love is there, but not for her. If love is like food, then the young girl think that she doesn’t have the stomach to digest the food that is there. She doesn’t know that she does have a stomach that works fine, but that there is no food to put in it.

She longs for life that is not for her. She sees others living, happy, enjoying what is not available for her. She gets angry, rage is building:. Why is this not for me???

Time goes on and the young girl grows up, still hungry, still feeling dead, still wanting. Still believing there is something wrong with her. She meets new people, but she knows that if they get to know her, they will see that there is something terribly wrong with her. So love is not accessible.

As an adult you read self help books: love yourself and such messages. What chance does such a message stand against the never ending experience of hunger? That experience, still ongoing, cannot be made void by a message, or a whole book of messages.

Or a lifetime of reading.

What an unloved child cannot and will not accept (because it is too threatening to accept) is that there is no love available. So she prefers to think that love is available and if only she becomes worthy of it, then she will receive it. This way she has hope.

The grief like glitter, everywhere, for me is the grief that involves accepting the truth: that there was no love there to be had. My mother didn’t have it in her to love me. She didn’t love me.

People say about their unloving mother (or father), she loved me the best she could. This is convenient thinking, untrue. The proof is in the pudding: an unloved child was not loved.

I will respond to the second part of your yesterday’s post later.

anita

October 28, 2018 at 6:15 am #233797

Anonymous
Guest

Dear Feathering my nest:

Regarding the second part of your post: “It is a rounded fish-bowl with a crack in it. Inside is a bird nest, resting on a pile of black tissue paper. Inside the nest are some broken egg-shells, some feathers and a dead rose head”-

You are the bird, I am thinking, looking at the broken egg shells, evidence that you exist. Or existed at one time, long ago. Something bad happened. Black tissue paper, dead rose head. Someone died. You are that ghost, looking for evidence that you were once alive, and maybe, still alive.

Did I understand correctly?

anita

October 28, 2018 at 2:47 pm #233911

Feathering my nest
Participant

Heya Anita,

I am so sad to hear of the burden of grief that you carry, and thank you for sharing it and for your trust in me. While I do not know the details of what went on between your mother and yourself, I will observe this:

“People say about their unloving mother (or father), she loved me the best she could. This is convenient thinking, untrue. The proof is in the pudding: an unloved child was not loved.”

I think there is a lot of value in this kind of what you term ‘convenient’ thinking. Maternal love is a strong biological imperative, I expect it overwhelms many women and is not easy – even for the children of mothers who ‘love them very much’. Human relationships are messy and complicated.

The value I see in this lies in the subtle acknowledgement of the limitations of humans- given the strong imperatives your mother possibly just had too many personal issues. It is possible she showed her love in many ways that you did not see as a child. Sometimes even – leaving someone is an act of love if you cannot provide for them in the way they need.

I say this with a view to taking the sting out of something that I see is still causing you great pain today.

Convenient: because it eases this pain. Few things exist as objective truths, least of all that fickle matter of love.

xx

PS-

Regarding the birds nest and egg-shells:

When I was 5, nobody died. We moved from New Zeland back to the UK. In fact we moved to Wales, I had no idea what Wales was or where it was. I left my only friend -a boy called Andrew – and we left our cat with him. My mother refused to allow me to keep in contact with him and had a whole host of excuses as to why we could not take our pet cat. I think this is the source of my primal grief. I recall wishing Andrew was my boyfriend, and being unsure if I could call him that or not. I also remember another girl – I think her name could have been Kim but I don’t know. After Andrew and I established a friendship, Kim started spending time with Andrew and I. I was jealous and hurt and wondered if Andrew liked her more than me, but have no memory of ever asking about this or ever asking if I was his ‘girlfriend’. I must have been 4 or 5 at the time.

Over time, the birds-nest has come to represent probably this, but also the pain of my first love (who was suicidal) and my second love (an almost decade-long unrequitted love for a close friend – my best friend, but that is all it can be.) and the pain of a fling from 4 years ago, which for some reason cut me deeply – in the same way that this one has.

I had one loving boyfriend for 3 years but was not sexually attracted to him. Another short-lived relationship where I felt very loved, we parted as we had different ideas on how our non-monogamus relationship would work.

In addition, there is the pain I carry from my last ‘relationship’ which was on/off for almost two years, deeply unsatisfying and pandered to all my worst fears about myself. I ended it after I discovered he’d spent Christmas with his ex partner – he had lied to me, saying he was with his brother over the holiday. A few weeks before that I found a woman’s hair in his bed and this deeply unsettled me. While I’m not convinced by monogamy (mongamish is better) these events stripped me of the (delicate) trust I had with this man – we had other issues as well. He claimed he was just friends with his ex and that she stayed over while he was away with work – accounting for her hair in his bed. I have no way of knowing if this was true but did not trust him at all, so ended it. It was a slap in the face and a humiliating experience.

I wonder if this deep undercurrent of anger we discussed is creating a hostile environment- that makes communication between my lovers and I very difficult. Several remarked that I have a lot of anger – it would be wise to heed their words.

…And with this most recent man: I wonder if a frank honest face to face conversation is needed.

His remarks that my “friendship was not very friendly” and (delicately phrased) suggestion that I “guilt tripped” him are probably founded in an uncomfortable truth that this unaddressed anger was the motivator behind some passive-aggressive behavior. I don’t think he hates me, it was I who cut off contact and blocked him, but he said he found my attitude difficult and that is why he kept me at arms length.

I think being honest about this, as part of offering a genuine apology, could be the best way to heal this rift. We may not work things out as friends or lovers but it may bring me a deeper sense of peace with this issue.

October 28, 2018 at 3:18 pm #233915

HoneyBlossom
Participant

Dear Feathering,

I feel moved by your posts and sorry for ehat you are going through.

It sounfs to me like this guy finds closeness too difficult, likely nothing to do with you personally.

October 29, 2018 at 1:17 am #234189

Prash
Participant

Dear Feathering,

I read through your posts and your journey from the experience mentioned in your first post to the process of self discovery has been impressive. The journey inwards, where the source of a lot of pain exists is never easy. The quest is for a fulfilling relationship but something within seems to be preventing that.

It may help in viewing relationships as opportunities to learn more about ourselves as we go about our process of self discovery. I believe that life in its entire magnitude and beauty can be appreciated only by those who are strong enough to be vulnerable and expose themselves to the spectrum of emotions that is part and parcel of all relationships.

Wish you the best

October 29, 2018 at 4:41 am #234213

Anonymous
Guest

Dear Feathering my nest:

If a conversation with him may bring you that “deeper sense of peace with this issue”, I hope you do have that conversation.

Regarding the nest, when I wrote “someone died”, I thought of something in you dying. I just realized, looking up the page where you mentioned the ghost, that I misunderstood your ghost image. I thought you meant that you felt dead, a ghost being someone who died. I now don’t think you meant that.

Can you tell me what “desperately trying to resolve a past hurt.. want to have satisfaction but.. cannot drink or swallow or eat” means to you?

Thank you for expressing your empathy for my pain regarding my relationship with my mother. You wrote, “It is possible she showed her love in many ways that you did not see as a child”- do you have examples of such ways in mind, maybe ways your mother expressed love for you as a child that you didn’t see then, at the time but see now looking back?

I read about you at five, moving to Wales, away from Andrew, that early life triangle of romance perhaps, you, Andrew and Kim. There are other things you shared that I hope we can communicate about over time.

anita
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