Home→Forums→Relationships→What if you are the toxic person?
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January 5, 2019 at 12:44 pm #272443AnonymousGuest
Dear Lily:
I should be away from the computer soon although I have nothing to do because I got my leg injured and unable to walk since yesterday afternoon
(And you didn’t cause my injury!)
Will you post to me soon to let me know how you are feeling?
I wrote to you the recent post because I believe it is true and because if you believe it is true as well, that you did not damage this guy K, at all, that you will feel better. Do you feel better at all?
I want you to think better of yourself, I think better of you than you do, no doubt. I think that deep inside you know that you are a good, worthy person, that you knew it from the beginning.
Our parents often take this away from us, that feeling okay with ourselves, and healing is about coming back to that knowing that we are okay, always have been okay, underneath the behaviors that we are not proud of… coming back to feeling okay about being.
anita
January 5, 2019 at 12:49 pm #272447LilyParticipantDear anita,
but what if he is feeling so bad that he can’t call? I’m so scared. If I only disrespected myself, I can live with it and forgive myself at some point. But if I damaged him, even though I never wanted it, I could never forgive myself. Today I even went kind of dizzy when I was walking outside – that never happens to me.
He seemed like a good person, I know you don’t think so. Of course, I didn’t know him well.
The way he treated me, of course, was showing disinterest. He didn’t respond to me often and never let me be part of his life. But maybe he was really busy? My friend said, that it doesn’t make sense that he really doesn’t have time to call or text me. Because when he was with me, he was always on the phone, talking to someone else. One time, he even called someone, after texting with them on his smartphone while we were eating out. He didn’t ask me a lot of questions, didn’t seem to want to know more about my life. He never had much time for me. His work, studies and family were always more important to him. Once he wanted to come over to my place to spend the night, after he returned from a night out with his friends. He said he would return at about 2 am, so I declined. In the beginning he gave me a lot of compliments, but most were about my looks. Only once he said that he liked about me that I was so nice and that I liked people. He also said “I love you” very quickly and wanted to have unprotected sex. And he said he wanted to have a baby with me, which I found strange and thoughtless.
Those are things that I find disrespectful and show that he was not interested. But on the other hand, he told me about his work and his family. He seemed so kind and friendly. He told me I was a good person. He always asked if I was o.K. and said he could wait when it comes to sex.
While typing this, I’m realizing I can’t come up with a lot of reasons why I think he is a good person… It was more of a vibe that he gave to me, when we were together. His actions told me otherwise.
January 5, 2019 at 12:55 pm #272449LilyParticipantDear anita,
thank you, I do feel a little bit better now, after thinking more about what our interactions were like. There is still some doubt though. But it’s better. Most likely, in a few days I will calm down more. Maybe after some time I can see things clearer.
I’m sorry to hear that you got injured. Please get well and rest for a while! Take good care of yourself!
January 5, 2019 at 1:03 pm #272455AnonymousGuestDear Lily:
I can’t read much of your recent two posts because I have to get ready to leave, to drag myself to the car, that is, not to take my walk or work, as my injury is serious for now. I sure hope to be able to tell you it is better tomorrow when I am back to the computer in about fifteen hours from now.
Lily, I am confident your worry about this guy K is not founded in reality, really!
I do so want you to feel better today, I sure hope so. Please be good to yourself today!
Be back in fifteen hours or so.
anita
January 5, 2019 at 1:09 pm #272459LilyParticipantDear anita,
thank you for your help! I wish you a good day, please be good to yourself as well today and take some time to rest!
January 6, 2019 at 5:36 am #272529AnonymousGuestDear Lily:
You wrote: “I’m so scared. If I only disrespected myself, I can live with it and forgive myself at some point. But if I damaged him.. I could never forgive myself” – you are willing to disrespect yourself so to avoid any possibility of damaging another, and by damaging another you mean that another person may feel badly because of something you said or failed to say, some expression on your face that you didn’t intend, etc.
You wrote: “I couldn’t enjoy sex itself that much, I went more along with what he wanted and maybe he noticed. Maybe I made him feel bad” –
You had sex with him because you didn’t want him to feel bad if you refused him. Then you are afraid he felt bad because he may have noticed you didn’t enjoy it.
You never said an unkind word to him, no mistreatment of him whatsoever, yet you are afraid that anything about you is damaging to him. You wrote Sept or Oct: “When he last wrote me he said he was out with friends, so it seems that he doesn’t suffer that much, right?”
You are surprised that he didn’t suffer; you have this belief that you are very powerful in this way, that you have the power to destroy an adult man if he noticed that you didn’t enjoy sex with him, not intending it to show.
“He didn’t respond to me often and never let me be part of his life.. My friend said, that it doesn’t make sense that he really doesn’t have time to call or text me”- I agree with your friend.
Since Sept 8, the beginning of your thread, you wrote the following regarding his responsiveness to you: “And he didn’t respond.. I tried to call him, but he didn’t pick up the phone… he didn’t take my phone call… (Oct 8) After I met him last Wednesday, he isn’t contacting me that much anymore… He only sends me messages that say ‘Hi’ or ‘How are you?’. But he doesn’t respond if I ask him how he is or comments on my answer… he doesn’t message me at all anymore now. Yesterday I sent him a message asking if everything is okay”
You wrote yesterday: “He didn’t ask me a lot of questions, didn’t seem to want to know more about my life”, but “In the beginning he gave me a lot of compliments, but most were about my looks… He also said ‘I love you’ very quickly and wanted to have unprotected sex”.
Sept you wrote: “He also said ‘I love you’ very quickly and wanted me to say it. But maybe this was because of sex”- the second sentence here, “But maybe this was because of sex” is your rational thinking.
Clearly, the compliments about your physical looks, telling you that he loves you were his way to have sex with you. It is a very common behavior on part of men who pursue sex with women.
Here is another example of your rational thinking (I italicized it) from Sept 26: “Last week he even said ‘I want to have a baby with you’. At first I just responded with ‘it’s too early for that. Maybe someday’. But then I thought more about it and found it weird that he said this after knowing me for less than a month. Was this just an invitation for unprotected sex???”
Yes, he did. You wrote yourself earlier in your thread: “He also wanted to have unprotected sex (I refused)”.
I would say that your hope is in examining your thinking for rational vs irrational thinking. Therefore Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, where thoughts are examined for being rational or irrational will be very helpful to you.
Your core belief that you have the power to damage people by an expression on your face, a tone of your voice, a word you said, while not mistreating a person (no yelling, no name calling, no shaming, no abuse) needs to be changed.
anita
January 6, 2019 at 8:17 am #272551LilyParticipantDear anita,
after thinking more about my interactions with him, it seems more clear that he wasn’t interested in anything serious. I already sensed the signs before, but somehow thought my instincts were wrong, when he said that he had been sick or busy and didn’t call me for those reasons. Maybe it is what I wanted to believe. But now I think that he wanted casual sex, but he also wanted to appear like a good person. During that phone call he acted like I was unreasonable for asking more of his time. He acted like he was too busy and because I don’t have a smartphone it is basically impossible for us to communicate more (it’s not such a big problem for my other friends to stay in contact with me!). It just sounds like excuses to save face to me… Maybe he doesn’t even want to admit it to himself…
You are right, I need to change my ways of thinking. At least I can see a little bit clearer what my problems are now, clearer than some months ago. To realize, that my problems are so big is not easy to face. I know there is a lot of work to do and that it will take a long time to heal.
Next Friday is my next appointment with my therapist. I think I will ask her about Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, but she is specialized in Depth Psychotherapy (I’m not sure if this is the right translation into English). She also said she wants to use techniques of Behavioral Therapy.
After our last session, I’m kind of nervous about the next one. She only made one new appointment for a new session and said that she “can’t feel me”. She also asked me how therapy made me feel and such things. I’m wondering if she is worried about not being able to help me. If she wants to end therapy? If she really feels incapable of helping, of course it would be better to end it. But I don’t think my insurance would pay for another therapy then. Maybe I’m reading too much into this again? Well, I will see on Friday.
Today I was feeling a little bit better than the two days before. At least I cleaned up a little bit and later I will meet my friend to exercise together.
How is your leg doing? Is it better than yesterday?
January 6, 2019 at 8:49 am #272557AnonymousGuestDear Lily:
Your first paragraph reads very rational, I am impressed. I agree, it reads to me too that he wanted to appear like a good person, and that his motivation was casual sex. I suppose you did feel better when you posted the above, calmer, and that made rational thinking possible for you. A lesson to learn: postpone problem solving thinking when distressed and resume when calm.
I don’t know about your therapist. I am glad you didn’t express yet fearing hurting her! Pay attention that you don’t resort to such an irrational thought!
My leg is a bit better. I have a similar inner critic to yours, unfortunate to me and to you. When I first got injured, cried a nd breathed quickly, panting, I felt guilty, like I am making it up to gather sympathy. I partially believed it, not sure. Isn’t it something? I mean I really was in pain, still am. I really was in shock, yet..
anita
January 6, 2019 at 12:39 pm #272607LilyParticipantDear anita,
yes I am feeling much better today. Now after the sports class with my friend I feel quite happy and satisfied. To be honest, I am relieved that this thing with K. is over. It caused me lots of stress and anxiety and I was overwhelmed.
I think I’m not too irrational much of the time. Mainly when stressed and I try to please people too much, that’s when problems start. With people I’m more comfortable with, it’s easier for me to say no and tell my true opinion. Your advice to make decisions when calmer is valid. I want to try to take a moment to think before saying yes from now on. And also think more about what I want.
So far I didn’t think I hurt my therapist. But I have to admit that I worried that I am a too complicated patient. In the last sessions it was a little tense. Because the same thing as always happened, I didn’t trust myself and let her dominate the session. And she didn’t feel that I was feeling uncomfortable, so she got worried. I will see how it goes on Friday.
Good to hear that your leg is doing better. It is not easy to overcome that inner critic, so be kind to yourself. Maybe at first you partly thought you were guilty, but then you realized that it isn’t true. That is the most important thing. And the pain must have been intense. I always get angry, when feeling pain. It is o.K. to not always think or act perfectly, don’t you think? But it’s easy to say! I often get so afraid of making mistakes and get too perfectionist. But that is something I want to let go of, hopefully, at some point.
Please continue to get better. And thank you. It helped me talking to you yesterday when I was feeling so distressed!
January 6, 2019 at 2:50 pm #272631AnonymousGuestDear Lily:
I am glad you are feeling better today! Will be back to read the rest of your recent post and reply tomorrow morning in about 13 hours from now.
anita
January 7, 2019 at 4:54 am #272735AnonymousGuestDear Lily:
I am also “relieved that this thing with K. is over”. And I agree that you are irrational, as we all tend to be “when stressed”, and that you “try to please people too much”.
Because “With people I’m more comfortable with, it’s easier for me to say no and tell my true opinion”, it is important that you select the people in your life and interact by choice only with those you are comfortable with. And “take a moment to think before saying yes from now on” is an excellent resolution, as well as to think more about what Lily wants!
You wrote to me: “be kind to yourself. Maybe at first you partly thought you were guilty, but then you realized it isn’t true”- in a similar way when you feel guilty next time, think again, and most often you will realize “it isn’t true”, you are not guilty.
Regarding perfection, in the context we are talking about, there is no such thing. If I ignore my pain and walk perfectly, that is not perfection. It hurts, so I limp. Regarding my inner critic telling me I am pretending to have pain so that others watching me limp pity me, I am rethinking: maybe I want some empathy, nothing wrong with that.
You wrote: “I often get so afraid of making mistakes and get too perfectionistic”- can you give me an example or two?
anita
January 7, 2019 at 10:44 am #272853LilyParticipantDear anita,
today I’m feeling so-so…. A little bit worse. I can feel a lot of anxiety and stress in my body, as I often did after my interactions with K. didn’t go right. I wish I would have paid more attention to these feelings and asked myself why I am feeling this way. It shouldn’t be like that in a good relationship or friendship. This is what my therapist meant, I think, when she said that I don’t describe my feelings, but only situations and should pay more attention to my feelings. It is a little sign of progress that I am noticing this more now, I hope. I really really hope it is, as I am feeling so crazy.
Sadly, I still worry a lot about what K. thinks of me now. Probably that I am crazy. But it shouldn’t be my concern and doesn’t matter for my life.
Yesterday I also worried about all the personal things I wrote in this thread. It is maybe not normal to share such personal things online. What if someone finds out? I’m sometimes wondering, if it is possible to delete all my threads? But they also helped me, you helped me. And I couldn’t talk so openly with people in my everyday life so often. Sometimes I tell my best friend about my struggles and she is really supportive, but I don’t want to talk too much about it.
Regarding your post: I want to stick to my resolutions, as I really want to get better! Also questioning my thoughts like you suggested to me many times before, will be helpful to me.
Can I ask you something, though? Please don’t be offended, but could you please not write to me in third person like you did here: “what Lily wants”. I know you probably didn’t mean it to be patronizing, but it makes me feel like a child and uncomfortable. I know that you said that I am like a child. I realize that I have a lot of work and growing up to do. You can also tell me, if you feel that I am like a child or anything else that you want to tell me. I prefer that you are honest and don’t sugarcoat things for me. Actually, I appreciate your honesty. I think that I need to hear these things and I am open for criticism. I think I am just trying to assert myself more here, that is all. Please don’t take it personally.
When it comes to my perfectionism, it is mostly related to my art or career. But also, if I go on a hike with my brother, I would probably prepare some time consuming food (but I don’t know if that is a problem in this case, maybe I just like to cook some good food…).
But when it comes to my art, it can be a problem, because it keeps me from finishing projects. I am seldomly satisfied, I take too much time or don’t even get started. When I see the works of others, I sometimes get discouraged, especially if they are in the same class as me. If I am seeing art in a museum or read a good graphic novel, I can appreciate the artwork more and get inspired. The people at my art school are so good! And I have a different style than most. Art is actually the one area, where I am more confident. I know that I have some talent, even my professors like it, I mean I can feel they truly like it, when I get something done. When just focusing on my own projects, sometimes I feel happy and confident. But then I look at others and get insecure and get nothing done. In the last months though, I felt like I improved a little bit in this area. My recent drawings felt more like they were truly me.
January 7, 2019 at 12:38 pm #272865AnonymousGuestDear Lily:
You asked me, “could you please not write to me in third person”- absolutely. I will not write to you in the 3rd person anymore.
You wrote: “This is what my therapist meant, I think, when she said that I don’t describe my feelings, but only situations and should pay more attention to my feelings”- it makes sense, because our feelings/ emotions are necessary for us in order to understand situations, and figure how to function effectively in situations.
In context of evolution, we humans, were emotional beings long before we developed logic. Animals know how to function effectively based on emotions alone. Logical thinking didn’t take us outside the animal kingdom. We are still animals.
Without paying attention and understanding our emotions in the different situations we are in, we just don’t know what is going on, and we stumble in the dark, feeling kind of crazy.
Regarding the personal things you wrote on this thread, I don’t see how it can hurt you, how anyone can identify you, and besides not too many people read these Forums. But if you want to delete your threads, I think you can do it by clicking “Contact” above and sending a message to the owner of the site asking her to delete your threads. All our communications here will be then gone.
And when your threads are gone, there will be something else to worry about.
You wrote: “The people at my art school are so good! And I have a different style than most”- there is only one of you. No one expresses herself just like you. Your threads are different from any other’s. I hope you don’t delete them, but I will accept it and be okay with it if you do delete.
* I will be away from the computer in about an hour or less and be back in about fifteen hours.
anita
January 7, 2019 at 1:25 pm #272881LilyParticipantDear anita,
I hope it was o.K. to ask about not writing in third person. Like I said, I want to try to assert myself more, speak up more. So this was a little experiment. Because I learned that people will only respect you more, when you speak up for yourself. I want to do more of this in my life, so I wanted to start here.
Maybe stumbling in the dark and feeling crazy is what I feel, when I try to find out what others want. Then I try to act in the way it is expected, but it leads to bad decisions. So from know on, I have the intention of listening more to myself.
Yesterday I was watching a Youtube video criticizing the Youtuber “hidinginmyroom”, who talks a lot about his personal life, very bluntly, sharing very personal details about his life. So I guess I was looking at the criticism and applying it to myself (I often do this – take criticism for others and ask myself if I’m also guilty of it). Even before watching this, I had worried a little about it. Sometimes I get paranoid. I’m not completely decided if I want to delete this or not. The conversation with you has helped me a lot to see things clearer. It also helped me in my times of distress. Just sometimes I think: whoever reads this will think that I am crazy.
Today I also chatted with my sister. She is now away at a seminar for her job. My father apparently immediately worried that this company is not serious. So I joked to my sister: “Have you been brainwashed and joined a cult yet?” and after she showed me some pictures of her room I said “I see you haven’t been kidnapped yet”. So we talked a little bit about my father. He is worrying all the time and he can drive you really crazy. He is the kind of person that would tell you everything that can go wrong, one day before you have a surgery. I recently noticed that my grandmother is similar. We are not very close, but whenever we talk on the phone, she tells me about all the murders that recently happened in my city…
Anyways, I guess this could be the source of my irrational, fear-based thinking. My sister also told me that she feels often guilty and has a hard time saying no. She also feels guilty, when she is not listening to my father enough. Conversations with him are more like a speech, where he doesn’t react so much to what the other person has to say. He has no friends… I feel kind of sorry for him.
Unlike me, my sister liked my father as a child until puberty. She also didn’t feel hated by him and he didn’t say such things to her like he did to me. But she was also his favourite. He was always on her side and even read books to her. My mother once said something like, that he was somewhat jealous of me when I was first born, because I got so much attention?
Sorry, I just wanted to respond quickly, but it got very long again.
How are you doing today? Is your leg better? Have a good day away from the computer!
January 7, 2019 at 1:39 pm #272893LilyParticipantO.K. K. just wrote me, saying that he is not feeling good, but that he will be o.K. Maybe he was really just busy.
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