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What if you are the toxic person?

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This topic contains 294 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  anita 4 months ago.

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  • #232015

    Lily
    Participant

    Dear anita,

    thank you for the advice.

    Yesterday this guy texted me again, just a few words, that he is “so so” and that he has been busy. Today he sent me another message saying that he comes to visit my city, asking if we can meet today. But I had made other plans. I wanted to go to the self defense class with my friend. I told him that, suggesting that if he wants he can come over to spend the night. First he said yes, but when I came back home he wrote me that he was too tired. He also wrote that he isn’t feeling well and that he lost his belief. I asked him what happened and asked in what he lost his belief and if I could help him? But he only wrote that he thinks that I can’t help him and that he just needs some sleep. Then I just wrote that maybe he should take some rest and that I wish I could help him. That I would have canceled the class, if I had known that he was feeling so badly and that he could call me, if he wants to talk at some point. Then he didn’t respond and went offline.

    Now I’m thinking about what happened to him… Or if I wasn’t there for him enough. He never answers my questions about how he feels lately. But he didn’t contact me very much for two weeks and I also didn’t want to contact him, because maybe he didn’t want that? And today I didn’t cancel my meeting with my friend, because I had made the promise to her to meet her and my life doesn’t revolve around only him….

    Maybe it was selfish of me to think that he had gotten tired of me. Maybe I should have thought more about him.

    I don’t know. I wish I could help him, but it seems he doesn’t even want my help. Now I’m very worried…

     

    #232017

    Lily
    Participant

    Dear anita,

    I forgot to answer about feeling weird and crazy. Some part of me says, that I’m not that crazy. But another part thinks, that sometimes I act weird. For example, I walked out of a class when a professor was scolding someone (I thought she meant me, but later I found out that she meant other students). Or I often feel that I’m difficult. When I’m stressed, sometimes I react difficult. And I feel like I have so many problems.

    I don’t know, maybe I will come back to that question later, now I’m just thinking about what happened with this guy.

    #232025

    anita
    Participant

    Dear Lily:

    I think you did very well to not cancel the plans you had regarding the self defense class, excellent. I am proud of you, if I may say so. I don’t know what he meant when he mentioned losing his belief. He didn’t explain himself and didn’t answer your question, so there is no way to know. It is not your job to know. If he wanted your help he would have explained the problem to you.

    Nothing much happened with this guy (your last line), he probably didn’t feel great and contacted you, then he got distracted by something and didn’t think answer you. He was busy elsewhere, contacted someone else, or he went to sleep, that is all.

    I will be back to the computer in about 14 hours, post again if you’d like and I will read and reply when I am back.

    anita

    • This reply was modified 11 months, 1 week ago by  anita.
    #232033

    Lily
    Participant

    Dear anita,

    thank you, I already feel a little bit better now.

    I also thought that it was the right decision not to cancel my plans. And asked him to please tell me earlier next time, if he wants to visit me. He also said he would do so. Today I also talked to my therapist about it and she also agreed that it was a good decision.

    Actually, I was a bit annoyed that he thought he can contact me or visit me whenever he pleases…Only when he said that he wasn’t feeling well I doubted my choice. I would really like to help him, but if he doesn’t want my help, I can’t do anything. I think it could have something to do with conflicts in his home country, he posted a lot about it online lately. Tomorrow I want to write a longer message to him explaining my thoughts and telling him that I want to be there for him, if he wants me to. And I want to suggest that I could visit him next weekend, if he likes. But I don’t know… Is this too much?

    I want to help him, but at the same time it gets on my nerves that he starts talking about how he doesn’t feel well or lost his belief, then he doesn’t explain further and just goes offline…. Somehow he seems to want my help and somehow he doesn’t. Then I start to worry. But okay, maybe he really isn’t well and that’s why he is behaving like that. But I guess I worry too much and you’re right, it’s not my job to find out what’s happening with him, if he doesn’t tell me.

    For now I will try to sleep myself…

    Have a good day!

    • This reply was modified 11 months, 1 week ago by  Lily.
    #232089

    anita
    Participant

    Dear Lily:

    “I was a bit annoyed that he thought he can contact me or visit me whenever he pleases”- I am so glad that you were a bit angry at the thought, because it means you value yourself. You believe you are more worthy than one to submit to another whenever they want to show up in your life.

    If your last contact with him was you asking him a question and him going offline, then I think it is not a good idea that you message him at all, be it a short or long message. He chose to go offline. Not your job, nor is it a good idea, to pursue him, to … almost beg him to receive your help. If he valued you as someone who can help him, he would pursue you and your help.

    Thank you for wishing me a good day. I hope you slept well and continue to make good choices!

    anita

    #232111

    Lily
    Participant

    Dear anita,

    hm, o.K., I have to confess that I already sent the message… I asked him again about what happened and if it has anything to do with the problems at his home country. I also suggested that I could come visit him, if he likes, but that it’s also o.K. if he doesn’t want that.

    He responded that he is very thankful, but that he thinks I can’t help him. And that it has to do with the situation at his home country, his family and his health that he isn’t doing well. He said that I can’t visit him yet, but soon it’s possible. As he still lives with his cousin, he doesn’t have his own room. He also said that he was also thinking a lot about me. And he used a lot of emojis…

    And I also wrote that he can reach out to me, if he needs anything and thanked him for sharing what happened. Then I wished him a good day and said I hope we can meet again soon to talk about everything.

    Now I’m a little worried that I pressured him too much with my questions. Maybe in the future, I should always wait before he replies back and only send another message then.

    I still have a lot of problems with boundaries, it seems…

    #232133

    anita
    Participant

    Dear Lily:

    Not a problem, that you sent him the message, it is not a mistake. It is only a message.

    You are very polite, very thoughtful, my goodness. But do think of your own benefit first, when communicating with people, just like you did when you didn’t change your plans for him.

    He lives with his cousin, doesn’t have his own room, has health problems, he is not doing well. I wonder what is your interest in him at this point, doesn’t read like he is available or capable of a relationship that will benefit you.

    anita

    #232327

    Lily
    Participant

    Dear anita,

    somehow I always try to find out what others want from me. And then I even forget what I want for myself. I have a very hard time getting over this behaviour pattern. But I’ve already realized that it is not a healthy behaviour when it comes to relationships. It’s not beneficial for me and also not really for the other person.

    He only lives with his cousin because he just moved to a new city. He still has to find a place for himself and that’s often not so easy in big cities. When it comes to his health problems, I don’t know what the nature of the problem is. Does he just have a cold or is it more serious? I don’t know. He told me that he was sick a lot during his childhood, but that he has barely gotten sick since he moved to Germany.

    I like about him that he is so kind and caring. He is always there for his friends and helps them (at least that’s what he told me). He treats others with respect.. When I’m with him, he is usually very affectionate. He also seems very determined. He has his goals and works to achieve them.

    But the communication between us is really not improving much. I’m awkward and sometimes don’t find the right words, and he doesn’t reach out to me very often, since he has gone to another place. He often ignores my questions about how he is doing. Maybe he doesn’t want to show his more vulnerable side or doesn’t trust me enough. Or he is just going through a hard phase. But he is not letting me in either. And he lives relatively far away, that makes it even harder. I don’t know how to make this work, if our communication doesn’t improve.

    I don’t really understand him. At one hand, he says he is thinking a lot about me and he wants to see me. He wanted to do something together and then sleep over at my place (doesn’t sound like he wanted to end it). On the other hand, he doesn’t contact me often or tell me much about what is going on in his life. He is always busy with his work, studies, family and friends. I wonder, am I part of this circle of friends? I feel like I’m only getting crumbs of his attention. Of course, we don’t know each other that long, but how can we get to know each other better, if we don’t talk more or meet?

    Maybe it is like you said and he is not really capable or available for a relationship.

    #232359

    anita
    Participant

    Dear Lily:

    “Somehow I always try to find out what others want from me. And then I even forget what I want for myself”

    Like you, I too lived this way, submitting, voiding myself and making the other person The Decision Maker, the one to decide for me.

    You don’t really know this man, haven’t yet had a meeting of the minds, no adequate communication (“I don’t really understand him… He doesn’t contact me  often or tell me much about what is going on in his life… we don’t know each other that long, but how can we get to know each  other…”)-

    and yet, you are doing all you can to accommodate him: “I told him… suggesting that if he wants he can come over to spend the night… I want to be there for him”- why? why offer a man you don’t know the use of your body?

    You don’t know his motivation, what he wants from you, and yet you are willing to accommodate whatever it is that he wants. As if you don’t matter, as if the only way to interact with people is to submit to them, whatever he wants, if he wants. You are willing.

    “I want to suggest that I could  visit him next weekend, if he likes”- if he likes. Doesn’t matter why he would like you to visit him, you are willing. No questions asked as to what he wants from you, as long as he wants something, you are willing.

    If you look back at your life, you can see that nothing good results from submitting. I assure you from personal experience, that nothing good results from this way of living. It is humiliating, debasing.

    It is progress that you didn’t cancel your plan that day so to see him! You got a bit angry “that he thought he can contact me or visit me whenever he pleases”- this is healing. Keep this healing going. Abandon submission as a way of life.

    anita

     

     

     

    #232575

    Lily
    Participant

    Dear anita,

    I don’t want to worry about what others think all the time anymore. And I also don’t want to negate my own wants and feelings anymore…

    At the moment I feel a lot of pain. I’m a bit disgusted with myself. I don’t want to do things because I feel obligated. It’s not a genuine and honest way of communication. Why did I ask him to spend the night without even being able to see him before that? I did not really want that. I was very tired and it also wouldn’t have made me feel good about myself. I don’t want to be this person anymore and humiliate myself anymore. Like I have no self – respect! So sick.

    When he said that he wasn’t feeling well, I just got very strong feelings. Like I need to do something to help. I needed to make him feel better, be there for him, visit him. But was that really what I wanted? Was that genuine? I do genuinely like him. But I overstepped my own boundaries again and again. I don’t want to make this a toxic relationship…. And to be honest, when I write that, I mainly think about him again. That I don’t want to hurt him.

    Often I felt that my own feelings don’t matter and that I can take it if I get hurt. It’s okay if I get hurt, just never hurt others. That is my way of thinking. It’s hard to break away from that.

    Maybe I’m not capable of a relationship right now and maybe he also isn’t. We communicated more yesterday, but then I had to go because of a meeting of our floor of our dormitory. I said I have to go there quickly. Hopefully he didn’t wait for me… I already feel bad again. And I also didn’t want to go to this meeting… I’m so done with fulfilling the expectations of others.

    Why is it so hard to respect myself and my feelings? I feel kind of crazy. I wanted to be more courageous and make new experiences, so I ignored my gut feelings when he asked me for my phone number (not because he gave me a bad impression, I just don’t feel good about giving out my phone number so quickly). Or maybe it was even just because I didn’t know how to say no. And I agreed to go for a walk with him, even though I didn’t feel like it, on the same day. I let things happen too fast. And now it is all weird and strange.

    I really do like him. I am impressed how he took on responsibility early in life. And he seems so calm and kind… I don’t want to hurt him. And I don’t want to hurt myself.

    • This reply was modified 11 months ago by  Lily.
    #232597

    anita
    Participant

    Dear Lily:

    You asked: “Why is it so  hard to respect myself and my feelings?”

    You answered your own question earlier on the same post: “Often I felt that my own feelings don’t matter… It’s okay if I get hurt, just never hurt others”.

    It is so hard to respect yourself and your feelings because you believe that your feelings don’t matter, that is, that you don’t matter. You believe that you must do anything and everything that it takes to not hurt others, no matter the circumstances.

    You don’t stop to evaluate a situation, you automatically react to your core belief (above) and act. If you stopped to evaluate situations, you’d see that at times people aim at taking advantage of you, hurting you… and yet you automatically accommodate them, trying to help them… hurt you.

    I too believed that I don’t matter. I too accommodated people who hurt me. I  too was disgusted with myself as I looked at my behavior, felt humiliated and I was humiliated in the real  life circumstances I found myself in.

    But do not despair: you can pause between an event and your automatic reaction. If you forgot to  pause and already reacted,  for ex., you invited the guy to spend the night with you, you can take back what you  said. You need not follow through with an act that will hurt you.

    It is about that pause, between the event and your automatic reaction. In that pause you calm down, talk sense to yourself and decide on a thoughtful reaction, one you think about before putting it into words and action.

    Please be patient with the process and gentle with yourself. Like me, you didn’t choose this automatic reaction, it came about in the circumstances of your childhood, and was none of your choosing. Anyone in your exact circumstances would have ended up with these core beliefs and automatic reactions.

    anita

    • This reply was modified 11 months ago by  anita.
    #232741

    Lily
    Participant

    Dear anita,

    thank you for always reading my messages and replying and understanding. It is comforting to know that others also go through similar things and that I’m not alone in this. It seems like you understand me. Most of the time people just look at my mistakes and judge me. At least it has happened often in the past. But you have real empathy. I hope this is not all too depressing to read.And how are you doing? Sometimes this thread feels too onesided…

    I think this idea to pause before making a decision is a very good one. In the past I tried this, but wasn’t very successful. For example when someone calls and wants something from me, I say yes too quickly. I have to still work on this. You are right, it will take time. Maybe sometimes I’m too impatient. I look at others, and they are so much farther ahead in life. Or maybe it also just seems like it from the outside. Maybe they have other problems. Maybe they had a happier family when growing up…

    Today I was thinking a lot about this guy again. I don’t know how to go further with him. I’m scared that I will hurt him.I would like to change our way of communicating. Be more honest. I would like to understand him better and get to know him better. He always said “we already know each other” when I said that I want to get to know him better. I don’t know what that means… Maybe nothing… Or should I just end it, before we both get very hurt?? I don’t want to hurt him at all.

    Today his sister looked at me weirdly and when I said hello she didn’t reply. I think she doesn’t like me. At this floor meeting we all had to pick a name by lot of one of our flatmates, Someone had the idea to give presents to one flatmate each. And when she read her name she was really disappointed and said ” Oh no. Can I change the name?” I think she probably picked me. And when we took a group photo, we had to take it again, because I wasn’t visible. I feel like I’m only causing problems…. But maybe I’m just thinking too much… In any case, I want to try to stay calm and act normal around her. But also I don’t want to spend that much time in the community rooms anymore (well, I never spent that much time there).

    I’m too complicated. Thank you for your advice. It helped me much!

    #232751

    anita
    Participant

    Dear Lily:

    You are welcome. Our  communication is not one sided in my experience. When I communicate with you I get in touch with myself more, and so it is indeed two sided. What you tell me about me (that I have real empathy, in the opening of your recent post, for  one) is valuable to me, so you see, our communication is not one sided. As long as you are honest and sincere, to-thine-own-self-be-true, it works for me.

    When you told the guy that you want to get to know him better and he said: “we already know each other”, it means he is not interested in knowing more, or he doesn’t believe there is more to know. What he did with that statement was something like placing a traffic stop sign on your way to getting to know each other. So you Stop, nowhere to go without his consent.

    You wrote that you are afraid to hurt him. How do you think that it can happen, that you will hurt him?

    anita

    #232797

    Lily
    Participant

    Dear anita,

    I’m glad that you feel our conversation isn’t one sided. It helps me to talk to you and hear your perspective. Your advice is very valuable to me. It has helped me to see things from another perspective and it also has calmed me down at times. To know that it is okay that I’m only making slow progress has helped me. And I think I’m honest and sincere here. Sadly, in real life, I don’t always tell people how I feel in such an honest way. Sometimes I tell them things they want to hear, to please them… I’m afraid that, if they get to see my more broken side, they will be disgusted with me and judge me.

    The way he made it sound that he already knows me, it sounded more like a compliment. Like we’re already close. But it doesn’t make sense to me. He also said “I love you” very quickly and wanted me to say it. But maybe this was because of sex…

    We didn’t communicate much during the last weeks. Only after I sent him the message, that I want to help him, he sent me a more animated message. He seemed happy. And then on the next day we had a more vivid conversation (all through text messages). But then I had to go to that meeting and it took so long… On the next day I asked him how he was and he again didn’t tell me much about himself. For example I asked him: “How was your day?” He replied: “It was good… Thank you, what about you?” So I only replied: “Thank you. It was o.K.” in a similar matter, because he didn’t seem interested in a conversation. I don’t know if it was stupid of me to reply like that, but he also didn’t engage in the conversation much. After that he didn’t answer any more. Maybe I also shouldn’t contact him any more, if he doesn’t reply first? Or was I just being too cold?

    Was he angry that I went to that meeting? I said “I just have to quickly go to this meeting”, but then it took longer. Hopefully he didn’t wait for me. But he also doesn’t say if it bothered him. I also said that I would like to help him, but now I don’t know how. Maybe he is disappointed. If he lived at the same place, we could meet and talk, but it’s not possible with him far away. Communicating through text messages doesn’t work very well. Or I can ask, if we want to talk on the phone… But I’m not sure if he is really interested in talking to me? I don’t want to force  him into something he doesn’t want.-

    When we met last time,. he talked about how he never wants to hurt people. Also, everyone seems to want something from him. Even when we were together, someone was always calling. He told me how he helps people from his country that are new in Germany. And he also emptied his bank account to help a friend of his. Now he told me, that he has financial problems. These things lead me to believe that he is also a people pleaser and doesn’t know how to set boundaries himself. I wonder if he wants to end our relationship (or I don’t know what it is), but doesn’t want want to hurt me or something. I would like to have a more honest conversation with him, but not via text message, better in person…

    I’m guessing and wondering a lot about him…

    About hurting him. I fear that I hurt him because I’m too cold or don’t show enough of my true self. I’m usually polite and friendly, but it’s hard for me to just be myself with most people. Or because I didn’t establish my boundaries and made it into an unhealthy relationship. That I wasn’t honest enough and said things I didn’t mean. Or that I promised help, but now I’m not helping. Or that I’m not there for him enough? Or that I’m just too mentally ill and will drag him down… Today when I was thinking about it after I saw his sister, I felt like: yes I am very toxic. I’m a horrible person and will only hurt him… I wish I could just fall in love and enjoy it….

    #232805

    Lily
    Participant

    When he said we already know each other he also talked about meeting each other when he comes to my city for work. He said it’s not that far away. If he doesn’t want to get to know me more, I of course don’t want to force myself on him. But I’m getting mixed messages from him… Like last week he wanted to see me again. And he told me that he wasn’t feeling well and losing his faith. So that lead me to wanting to help him and sending that message… And he seemed pleased after that and also said that he was thinking a lot about me.Plus he says that he is just busy at the moment. Maybe it was only that or maybe it was something else. I don’t know what is going on in his mind or what he truly thinks about me. If he really wants to still talk to me or not. Under no circumstances did I want to force him or manipulate him to stay with me…

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