… Another double posting, Peter, 10 min apart, didn’t read your most recent post before I submitted mine

Dear Roberta and Thomas:

I enjoy both of your senses of humor, brings a smile to my face!

Been busy here, in the forums all day, so didn’t get the time to listen to the audio/ video. Like Thomas though, it’s not just about time. It really is difficult for me to listen to an audio, particularly when someone speaks slowly and in a monotone (speaking fast and in a monotone is worse!), “makes me itchy pants” (Thomas’s words), ha-ha, don’t remember hearing it said just that way.

Be back to this thread later.

🙏 Anita

Dear Thomas:

Just wanted to comment in regard to “Sometimes I feel like an intruder when I read some of these posts. But, sometimes I will add my two cents anyway.’-

Please do add your two cents to any thread you wish to add it to. You are not an intruder. I would like you to feel at home here, in the forums.. and that’s my 2 cents 🙂

🤍 Anita

Hi Peter/ Everyone:

My best understanding is that evil in the context of Taoism = human actions that go against The Flow/ Tao.

Actions Going Against the Flow (the Tao):

1) Forcing outcomes- Examples: A manager micromanages every detail of a project, pushing employees to meet unrealistic deadlines. Instead of trusting the team’s rhythm, they force results, creating stress and burnout; one partner pressures the other to commit to marriage before they feel ready, creating tension and resistance; A thief breaks into a home to take possessions, forcing their will on others and disrupting peace; A parent insists their child must become a doctor, ignoring the child’s interests in art or music. This creates resistance and resentment.

2) Excessive striving- Examples: A student pulls all-nighters for weeks, cramming for exams, ignoring sleep and health. The imbalance leads to exhaustion and poor performance, despite the effort; A friend constantly tries to “fix” the relationship by overanalyzing every interaction, scheduling endless talks, and pushing for perfection, which drains both sides; A parent overschedules their child with endless lessons, sports, and tutoring, leaving no room for rest or play. The child feels pressured and exhausted.

3) Ignoring nature- Examples: A company clears forests recklessly for short-term profit; Illegal dumping of toxic waste into rivers, destroying ecosystems and communities for short-term gain; A parent disregards their child’s temperament (e.g., introverted vs. extroverted) and forces them into social situations that feel unnatural, causing stress.

4) Rigid moral judgments- Examples: Someone condemns a neighbor harshly for lifestyle choices (diet, clothing, beliefs), creating division instead of understanding. They cling to “right vs. wrong” without compassion; A parent harshly labels their child as “lazy” or “bad” for struggling in school, instead of recognizing different learning styles or challenges.

5) Artificial living- Example: A person buys luxury items they don’t need to impress other; A couple stays together only for appearances, pretending to be happy for social status, while hiding resentment and disconnection; Parents push their child to maintain appearances (perfect grades, perfect behavior) for social status, rather than nurturing authenticity and well-being.

🍃 Actions Going With the Flow (the Tao):

1) Wu Wei (Effortless Action)- Examples: A surfer rides the waves by adjusting to their natural rhythm instead of fighting them. They act skillfully but without force; Two friends enjoy each other’s company without planning or forcing activities — they simply let the day unfold naturally; A community volunteer helps distribute food to those in need, acting naturally and without seeking recognition; A parent notices their child loves drawing and naturally provides paper and crayons, supporting the interest without pressure.

2) Spontaneity- Examples: Friends go for a walk and stumble upon a street festival. Instead of sticking rigidly to their plan, they join in and enjoy the moment; A passerby sees someone struggling with heavy bags and instinctively offers to help, without planning or obligation; A parent joins their child in an impromptu backyard game, letting joy guide the moment instead of sticking to rigid schedules.

3) Simplicity- Examples: A family chooses to live in a small home, grow their own food, and avoid clutter; A couple chooses to spend quiet evenings cooking together instead of chasing extravagant outings, finding peace in shared simplicity; A neighbor shares homegrown vegetables with others, fostering connection through simple generosity.

4) Harmony with nature- Examples: A gardener plants according to the seasons, using compost and rainwater. They work with the cycles of nature rather than against them; A family spends time outdoors hiking or gardening together, strengthening bonds by aligning with natural rhythms; A group organizes a river clean-up, restoring balance to the environment and benefiting all.

5) Humility and openness- Examples: In a heated meeting, one person admits they don’t have all the answers and listens to others. This openness diffuses tension and leads to better collaboration; During an argument, one friend admits they may have misunderstood and listens openly, allowing reconciliation instead of escalation; A parent admits to their child, “I don’t know everything, but let’s learn together,” modeling openness and curiosity instead of authority and rigidity.

Key Takeaway- Against the Tao: appearances, control, ego, imbalance, judgment, pressure, resistance.

With the Tao: authenticity, balance, ease, flow, humility, support, trust.

Well, I am sold on Tao 😊

🤍 Anita

Dear Roberta:

It is difficult for me to listen to audios (ADD, auditory processing difficulties), so I decided to read (research and process the information right here, in this post, instead of listening to the video:

Gil Fronsdal is a Norwegian-born American Buddhist teacher, scholar, and writer, with Ph.D. in Buddhist Studies from Stanford University. He has spoken extensively about patience as a vital quality in Buddhist practice, emphasizing that patience is not passive endurance but an active cultivation, and a form of inner strength. It allows practitioners to meet difficulties without being overwhelmed; to stay present without rushing toward results/ without being driven by reactivity.

In his 2025 talk Patience as Opening Instead of Enduring (the link you provided, Roberta), he describes patience as a way of opening to experience rather than merely enduring it. This shift makes patience dynamic and liberating.

He says that patience can help us stay true under stress, persevere gently, and even remain grounded when insulted.

“One of the important qualities of mindfulness practice that supports us tremendously is that of patience.”

“In Buddhism, practice is not about what you do, but what you grow. Patience is one of those qualities we cultivate.”

Gil Fronsdal’s Step-by-Step Guide to Cultivating Patience:

1. Patience as Strength- See patience not as weakness but as resilience. Practice staying calm when things don’t go your way.
Example: When stuck in traffic, notice frustration but choose to breathe and soften.

2. Patience with Stress- Stress often triggers reactivity. Fronsdal teaches that patience allows us to pause before reacting.
Practice: When stressed, ask yourself, “Can I be with this moment without needing it to change immediately?”

3. Patience with Insult- He highlights patience as a shield against insult or criticism. Instead of reacting defensively, patience lets us stay grounded. Practice: Hear the words fully, breathe, and respond only after the initial sting subsides.

4. Patience as Perseverance- Patience is endurance with gentleness. It’s about continuing practice even when progress feels slow.
Practice: In meditation, when the mind wanders, patiently return to the breath without judgment.

5. Patience as Openness- Fronsdal reframes patience as opening to experience rather than enduring it. This makes patience dynamic and liberating. Practice: When facing discomfort, ask, “What is this teaching me?” instead of “When will this end?”

6. Patience as Cultivation (Bhavana)- In Buddhism, practice is about growing qualities. Patience is cultivated like a skill, not forced. Practice: Treat each challenge as soil in which patience can grow.

How to apply daily: * Use traffic, waiting lines, or delays as practice grounds.
* Notice emotional triggers (anger, stress, insult) and pause before reacting.
* Reframe patience as openness—a chance to learn, not just endure.

Begin the day with calm breathing, noticing any impatience about starting the day.
Intention Setting: Silently say, “Today I will meet challenges with patience and openness.”
Micro-Practice: As you brush your teeth or make coffee, slow down deliberately. This trains patience in small, ordinary acts.

When stress arises (emails, traffic, interruptions), take one full breath before responding.

Use waiting times (lines, loading screens, meetings starting late) as practice grounds. Instead of frustration, notice your body and soften.

Reframe Challenges: Ask, “What is this teaching me?” rather than “When will this end?” This shifts patience from endurance to openness.

Sit quietly, noticing impatience in the body or mind. Practice returning to the breath with kindness.

Daily Reflection: Write down one moment where you practiced patience and one where impatience arose.

End the day by acknowledging patience as something you are cultivating, not something you must perfect.”

This all reminds me of GRACE, what you shared about, Roberta (a note you have on your frig, I think: Gather attention, Recall intention, Attune, Consider action, Engage (and disengage). GRACE is part of my daily mantra.

I want to process the above more, over time and let Patience grow within me. Thank you very much, Roberta!

Is there something about the video that’s missing from the above research/ study, Roberta? If so, I’d love to know what it may be.

🙏 🤍 Anita