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anita

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  • in reply to: I just randomly and suddenly fell out of love #453197
    anita
    Participant

    Hello yet again, Confused:

    I would like to reply more thoroughly tomorrow, Mon morning (it’s late Sun evening here), but thoughts that cross my mind this evening are:

    “Having the warmth in my memories but not being able to feel them is killing me because I did feel amazing with her”- from my experience, too much of “the amazing” I felt was wishful thinking, as in someone was just about making it all-good for me forevermore.

    “U just ride the waves and let it pass until u manage it easier every time?”- not really, it’s more like I expect way less from people, no longer expecting to be rescued by anyone (nor do I expect to rescue anyone), understanding that people are struggling much like I do. That we all struggle.

    Now, what can we do to help each other as equally (more or less) struggling individuals vs ‘How can you rescue me?’

    I hope I just made sense. Please let me know. I’ll reply further tomorrow

    šŸ™‚ back to you,

    šŸ¤ Anita

    in reply to: I just randomly and suddenly fell out of love #453188
    anita
    Participant

    Hello again, Confused:

    The fact that your body responded well to her in person, and that you still want clarity, connection, and honesty, shows that the real you is still there. You didn’t lose your feelings — they’re just buried under stress, fear, and pressure. They can come back when your system feels safe again.

    It also makes sense that the conversation about moving countries hit you hard. That’s a huge thing for anyone, and even more so for someone who’s sensitive to change and uncertainty.

    You’re not alone in this. Many people with similar histories experience the same push‑pull, the same shutdown, the same confusion. And they do get better with time, understanding, and the right support. You’re already doing the right things: being honest, setting boundaries, getting therapy, and trying to understand yourself instead of running away. That’s strength.

    I too lived in a chaotic, violent, unpredictable home and was dissociated/ shut down, living in a fog, exhausted a lot of the time, probably more than you. What a relief it is for me that now, it’s a thing of the past. I’m still anxious (it’s built into my body), but I am no longer Confused. I’ll be glad to share more about how it’s been for me, just let me know.

    Give yourself some grace, Confused. You’re not losing your mind — you’re healing old patterns. And healing can feel messy and scary, but it’s still healing. Your feelings can return. Your clarity can become more than ever. Your sense of connection can return. Nothing is ā€œoverā€ just because you’re numb (or even repulsed) right now.

    You’re doing better than you think. One step at a time is enough šŸ™‚

    šŸ¤ Anita

    in reply to: A Personal Reckoning #453187
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Alessa:

    Went on a 2nd walk with Bogart. Right now he’s chewing on a new bone toy and loving it. (No taproom today or tomorrow).

    Thank you for writing me a note even though you’re really tired. I hope you have a restful sleep before the morrow.

    šŸ¤ Anita

    in reply to: Real Spirituality #453182
    anita
    Participant

    James, Oct 14: “My Dear Friends, To find out actually what takes place when you die you must die. This isn’t a joke. You must die – not physically but psychologically, inwardly, die to the things you have cherished and to the things you are bitter about… To die is to have a mind that is completely empty of itself, empty of its daily longing, pleasure; and agonies…

    “Death is a renewal, a mutation, in which thought does not function at all because thought is old. When there is death there is something totally new. Freedom from the known is death, and then You are truly living…

    “‘(Life) doesn’t work according to your expectations. It has it’s own flow…

    “Die to live fully, freely. Even smell of roses will be completely different.”-

    I think I am getting it, understanding in a deeper way than ever before. Actually I didn’t understand at all when I first read these words right above.

    To let go or loosen the hold likes and dislikes, preferences, desires, wishes and bitterness .. and expectations; die to the ego and surrender to the flow of life, the flow that’s so much deeper and calming than the agitated ego.

    Thank you, James. I would like to continue to quote from your messages and process over time.

    šŸ™šŸ¤šŸ™ Anita

    in reply to: I just randomly and suddenly fell out of love #453181
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Confused (Part 2/2):

    People with disorganized attachment are more likely to experience dorsal vagal shutdown in relationships.

    What is the ‘dorsal vagal shutdown state’?- This term is relatively new (mid-90s). It comes from the polyvagal theory of the nervous system.

    The Freeze response to perceived danger = ‘I can’t move.’ (tension, alert immobility)
    The Dorsal vagal shutdown = ‘I can’t feel.’ (numbness, collapsed immobility; the deeper version)

    The dorsal vagal shutdown state is the body’s emergency power‑saving mode when something feels too overwhelming to handle. When something feels too overwhelming or impossible to escape, the nervous system slows everything down — emotions, energy, heart rate, and awareness — to protect you. It’s the body’s way of ‘turning down the lights’ so you don’t feel the full impact of the stress.

    In this state, people feel: emotionally numb, disconnected from themselves and others, unable to feel love or joy, exhausted, foggy, spaced out.. like they’re watching life from far away. The heart rate slows, breathing becomes shallow, the thinking brain goes offline, the body releases natural numbing chemicals, the system shuts down. It’s a survival reflex — the same one animals use when they ā€œplay dead.ā€

    *** The trigger for you was likely the conversation about moving countries. You described a very specific moment: she asked if you could move to her country. She didn’t mention moving to yours and she gave an example of a failed LDR. For someone with abandonment fears, this conversation can feel like pressure, threat of loss, fears of making a life‑changing decision which may be the wrong choice, fear of sacrificing too much, fear of feeling trapped in a real-life situation or relationship.

    Your nervous system likely interpreted this as something like ‘This is dangerous. Too much risk. Too much uncertainty’, which led to the dorsal vagal shutdown state. The body said ‘This is too much, I’m shutting down!”.

    * LDRs involve big future decisions. Someone eventually has to: move countries, leave family, change jobs and uproot their life. For someone with abandonment fears or disorganized attachment, this is massive pressure.

    * * * From what you shared about what she said to you, she framed the future in a one‑sided way. She talked about you moving, not the two of you discussing options. She used an example of a failed LDR which can feel like a subtle warning or pressure. She didn’t reassure you- She didn’t say: ‘We’ll figure it out together’, ‘We’ll explore both options.’ ‘I’m open to moving too.’ Instead, she put the responsibility on you. ā€œwell, you never askedā€ is defensive, not collaborative. So, yes, her comments were a legitimate trigger.

    Perhaps you should have a calm (as much as possible), honest and open conversation with her about this..?

    Your question: ā€œIs this real or am I blocked?ā€- The answer (in psychological terms in my best understanding) is: you are blocked. Not suddenly ‘over’ the relationship.

    *** Coming out of the dorsal vagal shutdown state is not a mental decision — it’s a physiological thawing process. The nervous system has to slowly shift from ‘collapse’ back into ‘safe connection’ when you feel that you’re not in danger anymore. I imagine that having an honest, open conversation with her where (and if) she doesn’t get defensive, doesn’t come across as threatening (mentioning failed LDRs), and sharing responsibility/ being collaborative, and reassuring- will help!

    Also helpful: having a calm environment, reduced pressure or conflict overall. positive, supportive connections with people, a daily routine.. exercise, particularly gentle movement like stretching, yoga or Tai Chi.

    Coming out of freeze or shutdown is like a frozen lake slowly melting. It’s not instant. It’s not a choice. It’s a process you can trust if you understand how it works.

    I hope this is somewhat helpful šŸ™‚

    šŸ¤ Anita

    in reply to: I just randomly and suddenly fell out of love #453179
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Confused:

    The experience you described (I researched it this morning), is indeed a classic for a dissociative shutdown triggered by attachment stress.

    Everything you describes fits a pattern:

    * Sudden emotional numbing
    * Loss of feelings for everyone, not just the partner
    * Depression (not leaving bed, barely showering), apathy, inability to enjoy anything
    * Cognitive fog (missing words, feeling ā€œfrozenā€)
    * Rumination and panic about the loss of feelings,
    * History of chaotic or frightening childhood attachment
    * Fear of abandonment
    * A triggering conversation about major life changes

    When someone truly falls out of love, they still feel joy in other areas, still feel connection to other people and emotional warmth. But you say that you feel apathetic towards everyone right now, not just her.

    That’s emotional numbing.

    You wrote: “How does my body relate this relationship to the one with my mother? I can’t comprehend that, I saw no similarities there..”

    You childhood experience is not only relevant but extremely relevant to what you described. You mentioned a childhood of violence, chaos, unpredictable affection and emotional instability- This is the exact environment that creates disorganized attachment, hypervigilance, fear of abandonment and dissociation (emotional shutdown under stress) as a coping mechanism.

    Children in chaotic homes often learn to shut down emotionally when things get overwhelming. This pattern often reappear in adulthood — especially in intimate relationships.

    You wrote, “I am disorganized attached”. Attachment styles form in childhood based on how caregivers respond to us. Disorganized attachment develops when a child’s caregiver is frightening, unpredictable, chaotic, sometimes loving- sometimes harmful and emotionally unstable.

    The child faces an impossible situation: ‘The person I need for safety is also the person I fear.’ So, the child’s nervous system becomes confused about how to connect. In adulthood, this often shows up as: * Intense fear of abandonment (you mentioned “the fear of abandonment”) * Craving closeness but panicking when it appears * Sudden emotional shutdowns * Difficulty trusting stability * Feeling unsafe in love, and * Dissociation during emotional intimacy.

    It’s the nervous system trying to protect someone who grew up in emotional chaos.

    – I will continue in the next post.

    šŸ¤ AnitaĀ  Ā 

    in reply to: I just randomly and suddenly fell out of love #453177
    anita
    Participant

    The plot thickens.. I’ll process what you added and reply Sun morning (It’s Sat night here).

    in reply to: Parent Life #453176
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Alessa:

    “I am a proud mama. šŸ¤” thumbs up for mama Alessa šŸ¤šŸ¤šŸ¤!

    “I think it’s understandable to be angry about not getting an apology after all of that abuse.”- that ship (the apology ship) has shipped long, long ago.

    “In my experience, people who don’t want to acknowledge the severity of the pain they’ve caused have a difficult time apologising. True remorse means feeling the pain. For people who are so triggered by pain, they try and avoid it preferring to live in the comfort of denial. And yet, it cannot be denied entirely. I believe these things eat away at them and further their self-hatred. šŸ¤”-

    I understand the difficulty in self-reflecting and holding oneself accountable. I understand that bad people have their own struggles. By bad, I mean people who repeatedly harm FOR DECADES, blaming their victims.

    “I don’t view intrusive thoughts as a genuine threat. Please don’t worry, talking about these things isn’t upsetting me”- Thank you šŸ™

    “I’m sorry that your mother threatened you like that. Mine did too. It is a terrifying experience to feel like your life is in danger with your own mother. Things should never be this way. šŸ¤”- Yes, things shouldn’t be this way.

    šŸ™šŸ¤šŸ™ Anita

    in reply to: A Personal Reckoning #453175
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Alessa:

    Well, Bogart and I went on our very first walk together late morning, 3.5 miles (about 5.5 km) up and down the hills around here. Bogart did very well, he peed and pooped 3 times (first time in a couple of days, I was worried), he rolled on the grass and had the time of his life! Then took him to the taproom and he did very well reciprocating people’s warm welcomes. I wish there were dog visitors there this evening, so that he’d have dog time, but there weren’t any (very slow there this evening).

    Yes, I agree, it’s not good to hit a child. Yes, she was wrong.

    “I remember you said that she identified with villains on tv. I’m curious what she felt about protagonists? I only ask because I’m trying to get a sense of the twisted logic. It’s okay if you don’t want to talk about that. I don’t want to make you uncomfortable. šŸ¤”-

    Thank you for your sensitivity, precious, positively special Alessa. I’m impressed that you remember what I shared so long ago. Yes, she admired successful villains and looked down on protagonists who were less attractive/ less powerful than the villains. She admired POWER.

    The accurate framing would be that.. good people need each other to help each other. The enemy are those trying to divide, to antagonize, to accuse and tear down people who are already struggling. People who are taking advantage of honest people struggling- so to tear them down so to feel superior.

    “It is heartbreaking to hear how much you were controlled. Not allowed to talk to others, not allowed to express pain when hurt. Not even allowed to dress. A prisoner in your own body. šŸ¤ I’m so sorry for all you suffered. šŸ¤”- Thank you so very much, Alessa šŸ¤šŸ¤šŸ¤

    “You are free now. Perhaps the opposite of what she wanted is a kind of freedom from her? šŸ¤”- Autonomy, Agency, Independence, Self-Determination. Yes, Alessa, all of that. How dare she HUMILIATE me as much as she did..? How did she dare? (Well, she did, simply because it was easy, no one to stand up for me.

    Freedom from her equals freedom from being humiliated, shamed, guilt-tripped.. freedom from being shamed extensively- not to Correct, but to Enjoy, as my shame/ pain was her pleasure, her vengeance!

    šŸ¤šŸ¤šŸ¤ Anita

    in reply to: Parent Life #453172
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Alessa:

    Thank you for your two messages, this one and the one you submitted in my thread. I want to respond to both later tonight. I am looking forward to doing so!

    šŸ¤ šŸ¤ šŸ¤ Anita

    in reply to: Real Spirituality #453171
    anita
    Participant

    Thank you, James. I would like to process your input over time further tomorrow morning.

    šŸ™šŸ¤šŸ™ Anita

    in reply to: I just randomly and suddenly fell out of love #453170
    anita
    Participant

    Hi again, Confused:

    About the How (continuing my last post to you): When the brain senses danger — emotional or physical — it first tries to protect you with Fight‑or‑Flight. But if the situation feels impossible to escape and there’s no way to fight the source of danger, the brain flips into a Freeze or numb state. (Fight, Flight and Freeze are the 3 responses to danger in the animal world)

    Chemically, stress hormones like cortisol surge and then drop, the brain releases natural pain‑numbing chemicals, and the thinking part of the brain goes quiet. At the same time, the nervous system slows the heart rate and breathing to conserve energy. This combination makes you feel far away, disconnected, or unreal.

    It’s not a choice — it’s the body’s built‑in way of protecting you from overwhelming feelings by temporarily turning down your awareness. When the body senses safety again, the nervous system slowly ā€œturns back on,ā€ and you begin to feel present and connected once more.

    – Now, what’s the danger that caused the recent dissociation? Could be a memory of danger that was triggered. You mentioned “violence and arguing constantly” in regard to growing up with your mother. Not something you were able to run away from because you were a minor stuck living with her (the Flight response was not available to you),and I assume you didn’t Fight her, at least not successfully, so gone was your Fight option. What remained was Freeze response (dissociation) .

    I would like to read your thoughts about this..?

    šŸ¤ Anita

    in reply to: I just randomly and suddenly fell out of love #453165
    anita
    Participant

    Hello Confused:

    “that changed in one morning and I don’t understand why and how.”-

    Yesterday you wrote: “In my case too, the relationship with my mother was very chaotic, violence and arguing constantly, throwing some awkward affection here and there, then rinse and repeat. I cant remember if I was dissociating when I was a kid”-

    My best guess is that the dissociation you’re currently experiencing is your body remembering (and re-experiencing) the dissociation you felt a lot of as a child, felt and forgot that you did.

    The “why”- because you need to heal as much as possible from the chaotic relationship with your mother.

    I’d like to write more later about the “how”. Please feel free to offer me your thoughts about what I wrote here.

    šŸ¤ Anita

    in reply to: Real Spirituality #453163
    anita
    Participant

    Dear James:

    I want to process and study your short but strong answer thoroughly, including what you shared previously:

    At death- my ego, personal identity, psychological self; my mind, beliefs, experiences, memories, fears, desires.. the sense of “I”- all these disappear. There’s no continuation of me.

    That absence of self — the total emptiness — the “Nothing left”- is not a loss but a liberation. In mystical traditions (Sufi, Zen, Advaita), ā€œnothingnessā€ is not negative. It is pure freedom, pure peace, pure being- the end of illusion, the end of suffering.

    * In Advaita, it is the return to Brahman (pure consciousness). In Buddhism, it is nirvana — the extinguishing of the individual flame.

    * In Sufism (Islamic Mysticism, a mystical tradition within Islam) — Fanā’ means the annihilation of the ego. It is followed by baqā’ — abiding in God. Famous Sufi expressions: ā€œDie before you die.ā€ (Meaning: let the ego die so the True Self can awaken.)

    ā€œWhen I vanished from myself, I appeared in God.ā€= When the ego disappears, what remains is the divine reality. Not a personal God in the sky. Not a deity with a personality. Not a separate being. In Sufi mysticism, ā€œGodā€ (Allah) is: the One reality, the infinite, the source of all existence, the ocean into which the wave returns

    So ā€œappearing in Godā€ means: The individual self dissolves into the infinite. It’s the moment when: the boundary between ā€œmeā€ and ā€œthe worldā€ dissolves, the sense of separation disappears, only unity remains

    A metaphor: Imagine a wave on the ocean. The wave thinks it is separate. It has a name, a shape, a story. But when it collapses, it returns to the ocean. The wave ā€œvanishes from itselfā€ and ā€œappears in the ocean.ā€

    The wave (individual self) rises (lives) and falls (dies). When it falls, the wave disappears. But the ocean (impersonal being) remains. The wave was never separate from the ocean in the first place. Death is the wave returning to the ocean.

    In simple terms, the personal self ends, the impersonal reality (you called it “pure consciousness”) remains, and that impersonal reality is freedom.

    Here is a collection of.. The Best of James’s, I’ll call it: “Stillness is the absence of mental chatter—the ever-present silence, untouched and eternal. Therefore, Stillness is the end of grasping. Grasping means reaching, clinging, holding to thought, desire, fear, or hope. When the grasp relaxes, mind becomes quiet, like an open hand.” (Aug 27, 2025)

    “Radical acceptance is not passive. It is the deepest strength. When fear comes, you don’t resist it; you let it be seen. When anger arises, you don’t judge it; you allow it to pass like a cloud. Even danger, even uncertainty, welcomed without resistance, they lose their sting. The paradox is: by accepting everything, the heart opens completely, and care flows naturally. You don’t ‘try’ to care love, compassion, and right action simply arise.” (Aug 28).

    “For me, love is the complete acceptance of everything and anything exactly as it is.” (Sept 1)

    “I see bad people like babies. They came into this world completely pure, like clean water, innocent and untouched. Everything they became—their personality, their habits, their ways of thinking—was shaped by their environment, family, society, and life circumstances… The person I see now is just the result of everything around them, not something they consciously chose in the beginning. Understanding this doesn’t mean I approve of harmful behavior, but it allows me to look at them without hatred or judgment.” (Sept 1)

    “Love is the highest and purest service we can offer to humanity. It’s not about recognition, reward, or doing things for show—it’s about giving, understanding, and being fully present for others. When we act from love, every small gesture, every word, every act of kindness becomes meaningful. Helping others with love is not just about changing their lives, it transforms us as well. Love sees beyond faults, beyond appearances, beyond judgment. It connects us to the essence of people, to their struggles, their joys, their humanity. When we serve from love, we serve without expectation, without ego, without thinking ‘I am doing something great.’ The act itself becomes the gift, and the impact spreads silently, like a ripple in water. In this way, love is not just an emotion—it is the truest service we can offer to the world.” (Sept 1)

    “When the so-called self dissolves, something different happens. The body and the universe are no longer two. In that, there is no cold detachment — the body inevitably becomes an instrument of Love. Compassion, care, listening, and presence are no longer choices of the ego, but the natural action of Life itself… So yes, the memories, the scars, the stories remain in the body, but without identification they don’t rule the being. They are seen, felt, and even shared with tenderness, yet not carried as a burden of ‘me’.” (Sept 3).

    “Every breath is heaven. Every fear is hell. Heaven and hell are words, stories, warnings, not geography. Life itself is the teacher, and every moment is the lesson.” (Oct 6)

    There’s more to quote, but I’ll stop here. I want to reread the above and continue to process later. Thank you, James. I am feeling more of an appreciation to your wisdom today than I ever felt before and I want to apply it more, much more, in my daily living in the forums and in real-life.

    šŸ™šŸ™šŸ™ šŸ¤ Anita

    in reply to: A Personal Reckoning #453156
    anita
    Participant

    In regard to her message, “you all are perpetratorsā€- I tried to be on her side by never trusting anyone/ be against everyone (and therefore, be WITH her), but no matter what, I was never allowed to be WITH her. No matter how much I rejected everyone, I was not to be one with her-

    It never happened that I was one with her, as a team of two.. no matter how much I desired it to be that way.

    As she experienced it, I was Always Enemy, NO MATTER how much I desired it to be otherwise. She just wouldn’t let anyone in as a friend or ally.

    In her world there needed to be just one good, victimized entity (herself), and everyone else (her daughters, her grandchild)- terribly inadequate disappointments.

    She’s been nothing but a terrible person to those born to her and who loved her the most. She was the WORST to those few who loved her the most, and in so being, she destroyed SO MUCH in those few who loved her the most.

    Anita

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