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anitaParticipantDear bella ciao:
I want to put all that you shared together so to see your story as clearly as I can: you are a Christian woman who had a 2.5 years relationship with a younger, Muslim man. From the very beginning of the relationship, he told you that he could not marry you (at any time in the future) because of his culture. Sometime along the relationship, his family arranged a marriage for him, and the two of you decided to part ways so that it will not be so hurtful for you to be with in a relationship with a man who is about to get married.
The two of you parted ways and he got married. After he got married, he contacted you and told you that he married the other woman (now his wife) so to make his family happy, and now, that he “has given that happiness” to them, it is time for him to “follow his heart” and be with “the one for him” (you). He wants to marry you via an Islamic religious ceremony, and live in one household with two wives: with the one for him and with.. the one who is not for him.
Your current state of mind: “My mind has been messed up because he is confusing me a lot… I am trying to understand too what is going on… I am not used to it, sharing with other people. I love him so much and he loves me too. I know this is sound crazy and stupid. I’m losing my mind. Please help me (figure out) what I need to do“-
My current understanding based only on what you shared: he is not a bad person, he told you right from the start what he believed was true: that he couldn’t marry you because of the arranged marriage culture he was born into, (and you not fitting what his parents would choose for him, I figure, being that you are not Muslim, and perhaps that you are older than him). He was honest with you, straightforward.
I don’t fault him for agreeing to marry a woman of his parents’ choosing because there is a huge pressure in this culture to obey the parents and marry whom they choose. Many parents in this culture go to great lengths to pressure an disobedient/ rebellious son, including threatening to commit suicide if the son refuses the arranged marriage.
Seems to me that he sincerely loves you and he came up with a solution: be the obedient son (remain married to the woman they chose for him) and marry the woman he chooses for himself. He plans to live with the two women in the same household, and I assume, have children with her, and maybe with you as well (?). I figure that he asked and got his parents’ permission to put his solution into practice.
First question is: is his solution a solution for you as well, or is it a problem? For his solution to be yours as well, you’d have to be okay with sharing your man with another woman, with seeing him enter her bedroom some of the nights while you remain alone in your bedroom, knowing what is happening in the other bedroom. You’d have to be okay with not asking him questions about how he feels about her.. and does he still love you and not her, if there are changes in how he feels for you, and for her.
You’d have to be okay with seeing his other wife the mornings after she spends the night with him (and she’d have to be okay with seeing you the morning after you spend the night with him), and be nice to her. The two women you will need to cooperate well and be an effective team in one household in regard to house chores, child caretaking.. as well as taking care of his parents at one point on (if he is their oldest/ only son, or only capable son), because this too is part of the culture.
Your place in the household would be based on him following his heart while her place in the household is (already) based on following the centuries old practice of arranged marriages. Whose basis- and power- in the household is stronger: yours or hers? Depending on her nature, she might abuse her power in the household and demand obedience from you. If his parents join the household, they are likely to ignore such power-difference (after all, she is their choice), or join her in taking on the position of power and dominance over you.
What do you think about my understanding at this point?
anita
March 5, 2024 at 5:55 pm in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #428407anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle: Thank you for the note, exhausted Seaturtle and good night to you may peace envelope you tonight.
anita
anitaParticipantContinued, this is my new understanding:
Fear is helpful and necessary when facing real-and-present danger. There is a real positive association between fear and survival. Fear makes a person strong and capable. When a person is Anxious, he/ she is suffering from fear-gone-haywire, a diseased-fear, if you will. Anxiety makes a person weak and incapable.
The anxious person believes- without necessarily being aware of the belief- that anxiety (like fear) is helpful, that there is a real, positive association between anxiety and survival. Therefore, the anxious person worries and ruminates on and on and on.. sort of, extending the anxiety, thinking that the extended anxiety will pay off.
Fear promotes survival, fear is helpful; anxiety is never helpful, it never promotes survival. While anxious, the person is less likely to do what needs to be done to survive/ improve his or her situation. It is very important for the anxious person to distinguish between fear and diseased-fear, aka anxiety, and to remove the deep, false belief that anxiety is helpful.
anita
March 5, 2024 at 11:23 am in reply to: growing up – becoming adul / procrastination – in connection to childhood trauma #428402anitaParticipantDear Robi:
You are welcome, and congrats on having started your new job!
“Saturday and Sunday I felt quite anxious.. I would very often start crying. On Sunday I cried for a long, long time, talked to my girlfriend and went to sleep early… I think crying helped me a lot… So on Monday I woke up a lot more relaxed, almost ‘careless’… but I feel ashamed to talk to her when I’m in a very low mood.. especially if I feel like crying. I don’t know.. maybe it’s the way we’ve been told masculinity is supposed to be like“-
– It is sad and unfair to boys and men to grow up with this message that “big boys don’t cry” (as the song says) because statistically, men end up dying at younger ages than women because of unreleased stress/ anxiety. So, please, do cry.
“The head teacher seems to trust me a lot giving me responsibilities I have no idea about so I feel like I’m impersonating someone who knows what he’s doing“- keep impersonating someone who knows what he’s doing until such time that you know what you’re doing..
“I don’t feel like teaching English is necessarily my kind of job.. but then again.. nothing seems to be“- some day you will find yourself feeling, on a regular, consistent basis, that you belong somewhere, that you are a real part of something (a place, a job, a relationship).
“I have to make sure I don’t procrastinate and put in the effort needed to plan my lessons. I think, If I do that, things might work quite well. I have the habit of walking in the classroom with no plan at all ( because I procrastinate ), then panic because I have no plan at all and don’t know what to do“- it is difficult to change habits. Procrastinating has served a valid need for you, which is, seems to me, to lower your anxiety level. To change something that serves you takes a strong motivation and a plan.
“Today and tomorrow I want to focus on planning my Wednesday classes – this time I hope I’ll have the structure and make everything work better“- planning and having structure in your day are very important when it comes to changing a habit.
“As for the anxiety, I don’t know what to do. I’d like to deal with it and heal that wounded child in me. But what if I cry.. for a little bit, whenever I feel like it? Isn’t that a way of releasing some of the stress?“- crying is fine! And so is planning and structure in your day, these three things will help lower your anxiety and form a new habit.
“Have a good day Anita, take good care!“- thank you, and you too!
anita
anitaParticipantDear bella ciao:
You shared that your Muslim ex-boyfriend of 2.5 years got married to another woman, an arranged marriage. Following his marriage to the other woman, he offered to marry you (“he is asking me to do this relationship halal. and he wants to marry me“)-
– I am trying to understand, therefore I ask: do you mean that he wants to marry you legally after he divorces the other woman, or does he want to “marry” you via a religious ceremony only, while living with his wife part-time and with you part-time as well?
anita
March 5, 2024 at 10:16 am in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #428400anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
“These doubts come to my head. They aren’t gone… which tells me my third eye is tired? I wonder why I have these doubts so intensely the past couple weeks, so you (think) that text exchange just really impacted me more than I can still even give it credit?“- yes, the text exchange about 2 weeks ago impacted you a lot. Looking back (again) at the exchange, he blamed you for making him feel badly (“Words can’t describe how you’ve made me feel”), and he.. proceeded with his attempts to make you feel badly (“I have no desire to waste any more energy with you.. You have no clue what love is.. I don’t know where any of your stuff “). The result: his efforts to make you feel badly have succeeded, and for 2 weeks you felt doubtful, guilty and exhausted (“exhausted Seaturtle”), 3rd eye closing due to exhaustion.
“What is this fantasy fulfilling in me to keep? I once learned in therapy that ‘you’re struggling to make the change because the old behavior is still meeting a need.’ So I wonder what is this need, why am I having a painful fantasy that he could have evolved for me. Why am I doing this to myself“- back to the exchange: “Him: ‘you have no clue what love is’ Me: ‘yea I realize that. Him: (Thumbs up emoji)'”-
-N repeated F’s message that you don’t know how to love, that you have no clue what love is. Going back to your post on Oct 11 last year, about F: “Every 3 months, not an exaggeration, we would have what he began to call ‘house cleaning’ where we would sit down and he would list all the ways I had exemplified being ‘ungrateful’ at his house”- ungrateful, as in unloving, having no clue what love is .
F’s “evidence” that you have no clue what love is: “The shoes by the door, dishes in the sink, backpack/clothes downstairs, my messy bedroom, messy car, how I didn’t think about him and cook him dinner…”. Your reaction to F’s (untrue) message: “While I lived with him I went through a lot of suicidal thoughts and running away attempts”.
Fast forward, N repeats F’s message and the message “really impacted (you)”.
I think that the fantasy that pulls you toward trying to change N is the same fantasy involving F: the fantasy of hearing F/N say something like: I was wrong about you, Seaturtale, you do know how to love!
I now understand why you agreed with N when he said that you have no clue what love is: F said the same thing in his ways (those housecleaning sessions) and you believed him (F.. and N).
“Fantasizing him seeing me is still fulfilling a need.. as it did in the relationship. My need to be seen. So all of this is because I still don’t feel seen, even by me?“- you still don’t see that you have plenty of clue what love is. It was only 2 weeks ago, that you agreed with N that you have no clue.
“I feel seen my you, by my roommate“- my goodness, I am having a bee’s knee moment (an aha moment) right this moment: I now understand why you presented yourself as a self-centered, selfish (Narcissistic, your word) person in your original posts on both threads (right from the start of each thread): not because you are these things but because F told you that you are these things and you believed him. And maybe it is your child-like loyalty to F that motivates you to repeat his message to other people (here… and in-real-life?).
But you are not that person.. if you were, you wouldn’t be so negatively impacted by that message. It was a false/ untrue message all along.
“I feel I have worked so hard to see me that it seems impossible that I don’t at least see more than before“- this very morning (expressed right above), I saw something huge that I didn’t see before.
“So why do I need this, because of childhood lack… so the real question is how do I fill it“- see yourself as a loving person who has been a loving person from your very beginning. This is what I see.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Peace: seems like you did address your earlier post to me correctly (referring to my Jan 25 congratulating post, previous page). I am adding this post because you submitted your last post only 3 minutes after I submitted mine, and maybe you wouldn’t notice my last post.. so, it’s there!
anita
anitaParticipantDear Peace:
The person who submitted the last post to you (Feb 20), congratulating you for getting married, and for your healing and growth is Tee, not me.
“I’ve just finished my exams, but unfortunately, they didn’t go well despite all the effort I put into preparing for them. It’s disappointing, but I’m not giving up. I’ll try again“- this is the right attitude!
“Lately, I’ve been feeling like my siblings are mad at me or hate me. One of my sisters, who lives in Europe, has been pretty rude. She asks me for help and money, but she never says thank you. I feel like She blames me for her visa problems and that she is not getting job in Europe, even though I have nothing to do with it…“- I wrote above that trying again is the right attitude, and it is, as far as exams are concerned, but trying again with your sisters, trying to get them to like you and treat you well is .. not the right attitude and a waste of your emotional energy, energy that you need for trying again to pass the exams!
“Before my wedding, another sister accused me of being selfish. She said I could have helped more siblings move to Europe but chose not to because I dint want anyone to be prosper and have better life .It really hurt, especially right before my big day. Later, I found out it was my older sister spreading these rumors and badmouthing me to everyone. It feels like they made a group and I am the villain of everyone’s story..“-
– here is a quote from bustle. com/ signs your siblings are toxic: “Just because someone is related to you doesn’t automatically make them a positive part of your life. Everyone wants a good relationship with their family, but if you feel like crap after every interaction, you might want to look out for some signs you have toxic siblings… A toxic sibling might borrow money to resolve crisis after crisis and make you feel bad if you say no…
“Constructive criticism coming from a place of love is one thing, but a sign your sister is jealous of you could be that she intentionally makes you feel bad about yourself, instead of dealing with her own feelings… You may often feel as though you can’t do anything right because your sibling will nitpick and find ‘flaws’ in you… you don’t have to take it just because it’s coming from a family member… With toxic siblings, your brother or sister is never wrong… (blaming) others for their own mistakes or faults… They often have the mentality that nothing is their fault, and everyone else is wrong…
“A toxic sibling never apologizes, no matter what they did or how much it hurt you… A healthy relationship with a sibling… comes with an ‘open line of communication,’ meaning that if you tell your sibling that they hurt your feelings, ‘they should be receptive to that, and be willing to meet your needs [for an apology].’…
“Toxic siblings will do anything they can to take advantage of you… if they know you’re a people pleaser who has a hard time saying no, they will keep badgering you until you finally cave. They might even tell other family members about your weaknesses so that they can take advantage of you, too… and will guilt-trip you into getting what they want…
“You can do no right, while they can do no wrong… There’s always an excuse or a reason why your situations are different or why they’re not in the wrong — even if you both took the same action or made the same mistake. ‘They minimize your feelings but give themselves the space to process theirs, or expect you to show empathy for what they’re going through but don’t acknowledge your feelings'”-
– the above reads like a description of your sisters, doesn’t it?
anita
anitaParticipantDear Caroline:
It makes my day reading your post first thing this Tuesday morning. Thank you for caring to submit this message for me, for telling me the truth about how you feel about our communication (that it was a mix of helpful and unhelpful), for telling me that you appreciate my apology, and for asking me to not feel bad. You are amazing, Caroline!
“I think I will come back but I will take a break for now“- I promise you that if and when you are back, when I respond to you, I will pay close attention to submit posts that are always gentle and kind.
“I think I am better and my girlfriend also made some changes“- good thing.. We all need to make some changes. Experiencing your kindness during our latest exchange gives me a new appreciation of you, and it motivates me to pay closer attention to all my communications with people; to consider how I may come across before expressing myself.
“but not only – I AM more active and responsive to avoid situations when I agree to things I don’t want to do.“-this is an excellent resolve! Because habits (such as agreeing to things) are hard to break, next time, when you feel that you are about to agree to something, you can tell the person that you’ll get back to them later (take a time out, out of the pressure of the moment).
Thank you again for making my day!
anita
anitaParticipantContinued, a note: Fear is short term experience, it makes a person feel strong, capable and powerful; Anxiety is a long-term experience, it makes a person feel weak, incapable and powerless. This is an important distinction.
Are you afraid or are you anxious? If you feel strong, capable and powerful.. you are afraid. if you feel weak, incapable and powerless, you are anxious.
Fear is followed by a return to a healthy, calm and alert baseline; Anxiety is followed by a loss of a healthy baseline. The baseline becomes.. anxiety.
anita
March 4, 2024 at 6:27 pm in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #428372anitaParticipantDear less anxious and exhausted Seaturtle:
I will read and reply in the morning, hope the hot shower, dinner and a nostalgic show will lead you to a restful, dream-free night.
anita
March 4, 2024 at 5:55 pm in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #428370anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
“I feel also anxious you will be disappointed that I am doubting myself so much and not confident Seaturtle“- I am not at all disappointed, didn’t feel any inkling of disappointment. I like the sea turtle I got to know, the sea turtle I have the privilege of getting to know!
anita
March 4, 2024 at 5:51 pm in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #428369anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
“I just wonder how that conversation would have gone and if him hearing me say I was considering breaking up and more clear as to why..“- he’d say that he has no words to describe how you made him feel.. wouldn’t he?
“I wonder if he would have heard what I was saying and felt the urgency to be more aware of his feelings, feelings he denied, passive aggression that he had previously denied and gaslighted me about“- it’s a fantasy that following just the right words and an explanation coming from you, he’d go through a metamorphosis. It’d take many months of active psychotherapy and lots of proactive work, and not using weed daily, to make such profound, deep changes.
“(I) Question if I did try my best and make me worry that if I could go back I would have given him more of a chance to get better“- there is a fitting saying: you can’t squeeze water (introspection, insight etc.) out of a stone (a person whose regularly stoned, pun intended), no matter how long you stand there, day and night, squeezing.
“It is very painful for me to think that if only I had given him the opportunity for a full conversation, rather than ending it so quickly out of fear that he would gaslight and confuse me, that maybe it would have worked out“- fantasy.
“maybe this is all just the sacral (child) acting out because of how much I miss his physical presence… I either need to reach out to him and see if he will hear me out; or I need to squash this potential regret somehow“- I think it is your suppressed need and desire of childhood and adolescence to be seen and heard by those who won’t, that is acting out at this time.
“The interesting thing about the tiger dream was that.. My level of fear/anxiety was equivalent to the aggression or affection of the tiger. Low fear and the tiger was your friend… My anxiety was barely simmering and the tiger very slowly bit into my leg, insinuating that if I showed more fear I would be attacked. Then I woke up“- this reminds me of the spider (N) and the fly (Seaturtle) analogy that I made earlier: the fly caught in the spider’s web, vibrating it with fear, the spider notices and approaches the fly to attack/ prepare it as a meal.
“Still anxious Seaturtle“- can you watch a good movie/ listen to your favorite music.. do art, take a hot bath, so to relax?
anita
March 4, 2024 at 5:18 pm in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #428367anitaParticipantI submitted the above post before I became aware of your latest 2 posts, will reply to them soon.
anita
March 4, 2024 at 5:17 pm in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #428366anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
“I am wondering your thoughts on what it can do to you mentally and physically to get used to physical intimacy, instant gratification to the sacral chakra, to suddenly none… I want to discover… another outlet that is not intense workouts for the next few weeks“- You, 25-year old sea turtle tell me (old woman with cane emoji) what it can do to you..! (ha ha).
At the beginning of my walk, I remembered that only yesterday I heard (didn’t listen to it though) a segment on The News Hour titled Why more people are turning to artificial intelligence for companionship? And I thought to myself to tell you: imagine via AI technology, you choose a boyfriend, literally choose every physical part of him (colors, shapes, dimensions etc.), and you put together his mental profile: his sense of humor, words he’d often say (ex., the bee’s knees), topics he’d talk about, his food preferences, quirks and all (including sacral chakra compatibility.. the perfect boyfriend, soul- body mate AI style!
Is there such a thing, is this what the News Hour segment was about? Of course, I imagine you’d reject this as inauthentic, but what about it being .. an technologically enhanced fantasy/ daydreaming?
“I am also curious if you have any insight on dreams and what makes vivid dreams that make you feel things. Even the other night in my dreams a tiger bit me and I could feel it to an extent“- tigers live in tropical rainforests, evergreen forests, grasslands, rocky areas and in mangrove swamps. The only place where a sea turtle can have a chance to be bitten by a tiger is in a mangrove swamp.. Is there something about the mangrove swamps for you to discover..?
I don’t really have insight into dreams other than that often in dreams, there is some release of suppressed emotions and desires, much of these from childhood.
anita
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Though I run this site, it is not mine. It's ours. It's not about me. It's about us. Your stories and your wisdom are just as meaningful as mine.