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anitaParticipantContinued, a note: Fear is short term experience, it makes a person feel strong, capable and powerful; Anxiety is a long-term experience, it makes a person feel weak, incapable and powerless. This is an important distinction.
Are you afraid or are you anxious? If you feel strong, capable and powerful.. you are afraid. if you feel weak, incapable and powerless, you are anxious.
Fear is followed by a return to a healthy, calm and alert baseline; Anxiety is followed by a loss of a healthy baseline. The baseline becomes.. anxiety.
anita
March 4, 2024 at 6:27 pm in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #428372anitaParticipantDear less anxious and exhausted Seaturtle:
I will read and reply in the morning, hope the hot shower, dinner and a nostalgic show will lead you to a restful, dream-free night.
anita
March 4, 2024 at 5:55 pm in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #428370anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
“I feel also anxious you will be disappointed that I am doubting myself so much and not confident Seaturtle“- I am not at all disappointed, didn’t feel any inkling of disappointment. I like the sea turtle I got to know, the sea turtle I have the privilege of getting to know!
anita
March 4, 2024 at 5:51 pm in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #428369anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
“I just wonder how that conversation would have gone and if him hearing me say I was considering breaking up and more clear as to why..“- he’d say that he has no words to describe how you made him feel.. wouldn’t he?
“I wonder if he would have heard what I was saying and felt the urgency to be more aware of his feelings, feelings he denied, passive aggression that he had previously denied and gaslighted me about“- it’s a fantasy that following just the right words and an explanation coming from you, he’d go through a metamorphosis. It’d take many months of active psychotherapy and lots of proactive work, and not using weed daily, to make such profound, deep changes.
“(I) Question if I did try my best and make me worry that if I could go back I would have given him more of a chance to get better“- there is a fitting saying: you can’t squeeze water (introspection, insight etc.) out of a stone (a person whose regularly stoned, pun intended), no matter how long you stand there, day and night, squeezing.
“It is very painful for me to think that if only I had given him the opportunity for a full conversation, rather than ending it so quickly out of fear that he would gaslight and confuse me, that maybe it would have worked out“- fantasy.
“maybe this is all just the sacral (child) acting out because of how much I miss his physical presence… I either need to reach out to him and see if he will hear me out; or I need to squash this potential regret somehow“- I think it is your suppressed need and desire of childhood and adolescence to be seen and heard by those who won’t, that is acting out at this time.
“The interesting thing about the tiger dream was that.. My level of fear/anxiety was equivalent to the aggression or affection of the tiger. Low fear and the tiger was your friend… My anxiety was barely simmering and the tiger very slowly bit into my leg, insinuating that if I showed more fear I would be attacked. Then I woke up“- this reminds me of the spider (N) and the fly (Seaturtle) analogy that I made earlier: the fly caught in the spider’s web, vibrating it with fear, the spider notices and approaches the fly to attack/ prepare it as a meal.
“Still anxious Seaturtle“- can you watch a good movie/ listen to your favorite music.. do art, take a hot bath, so to relax?
anita
March 4, 2024 at 5:18 pm in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #428367anitaParticipantI submitted the above post before I became aware of your latest 2 posts, will reply to them soon.
anita
March 4, 2024 at 5:17 pm in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #428366anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
“I am wondering your thoughts on what it can do to you mentally and physically to get used to physical intimacy, instant gratification to the sacral chakra, to suddenly none… I want to discover… another outlet that is not intense workouts for the next few weeks“- You, 25-year old sea turtle tell me (old woman with cane emoji) what it can do to you..! (ha ha).
At the beginning of my walk, I remembered that only yesterday I heard (didn’t listen to it though) a segment on The News Hour titled Why more people are turning to artificial intelligence for companionship? And I thought to myself to tell you: imagine via AI technology, you choose a boyfriend, literally choose every physical part of him (colors, shapes, dimensions etc.), and you put together his mental profile: his sense of humor, words he’d often say (ex., the bee’s knees), topics he’d talk about, his food preferences, quirks and all (including sacral chakra compatibility.. the perfect boyfriend, soul- body mate AI style!
Is there such a thing, is this what the News Hour segment was about? Of course, I imagine you’d reject this as inauthentic, but what about it being .. an technologically enhanced fantasy/ daydreaming?
“I am also curious if you have any insight on dreams and what makes vivid dreams that make you feel things. Even the other night in my dreams a tiger bit me and I could feel it to an extent“- tigers live in tropical rainforests, evergreen forests, grasslands, rocky areas and in mangrove swamps. The only place where a sea turtle can have a chance to be bitten by a tiger is in a mangrove swamp.. Is there something about the mangrove swamps for you to discover..?
I don’t really have insight into dreams other than that often in dreams, there is some release of suppressed emotions and desires, much of these from childhood.
anita
March 4, 2024 at 3:09 pm in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #428363anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
I’ll think about your question (last paragraph).. a tiger bit you in the dream, not a shark… I wonder… back to you later.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Caroline:
The complexity of communicating in two threads at the same period of time. So, when you posted earlier on this thread: “To be honest I feel a bit discouraged .. When, at first, I was happy that I found something interesting in, I thought it was enough and after you counted and pointed out 12 minutes I felt ‘scolded’ and tried to read more but it overwhelmed me .. I promised myself I would come back and force myself to spend more time on this but I never did. Anyway I hope I will come back to this here or somewhere else.“- you did not refer to a post I submitted for you on this thread, but to a post I submitted for you on the other thread.
Having re-read the post you referred to, and your response, boldfaced above, it is clear to me now, in no uncertain terms, that I made a stupid mistake being pushy/ aggressive via CAPITAL LETTERS and attitude, and that made you feel discouraged, scolded and overwhelmed. I sincerely apologize, Caroline. I didn’t think enough before submitting that post on Feb 5, nor did I understand after how I came across, or how I could come across.
Interestingly, I wrote in that same post in regard to your state of mind: “Maybe you rushed so much because you were anxious and exhausted. You have to be calm enough to be able to patiently read and process information“, while it was my state of mind: not calm, but rushing with a reply that hurt you, instead of (potentially) helping you
“I hope this explains why I feel overwhelmed and discouraged“- yes, it does. Thank you for explaining it to me. I think that it is kind of you and admirable that you took the time to explain this to me, and give me an opportunity to pay better attention to how I come across.
“I think it would be good for me to take a break from this“- you can, of course. But if you would like to give me the opportunity to show you that I learned the lesson you kindly taught me, I would like it that you’d post again sooner than later.
anita
anitaParticipantContinued:
From urban child institute. org: “In contrast to tolerable stress, toxic stress refers to persistent, unhealthy amounts of stress caused by chronically stressful conditions without the protective benefits of healthy caregiving… babies are affected by stress even in the protective environment of the womb. Since maternal cortisol levels affect the developing fetus, a mother’s level of stress is directly related to the well-being of her baby. Positive and tolerable stress levels are safe, but toxic stress increases the risk of preterm delivery, low birth weight and other complications. It is also associated with impaired mental, behavioral and motor development in infancy”.
From Psychology today: “Newer research on this topic has involved scanning fetuses’ brains through their mothers’ pregnant bellies to examine the neurobiological consequences of chronic stress. In general, this research has shown that… stressed-out mothers had fetuses with decreased functional brain activity when compared to mothers who were less stressed. Importantly, infants of the stressed mothers were also born sooner, consistent with previous research linking prenatal stress to birth complications”.
From NIH National library of Medicine: “When faced with an acute stressor, the brain initiates behavioral and physiological adaptations to protect the body and prepares for a fight-or-flight response. These physiological adaptations are referred to as allostasis… In the short term, allostasis is adaptive, and physiological systems return to baseline in the absence of threat. However, repeated or chronic exposure to stressors can lead to allostatic load or overload, in which prolonged release of primary mediators (glucocorticoids, catecholamines, and cytokines) disrupts development and functioning of the brain and neuroendocrine, immune, metabolic, cardiovascular, and respiratory systems. These physiological disruptions, referred to as secondary outcomes of the stress response, can lead to diseased and disordered tertiary end points that affect mental and physical health across the life span…
“For the purposes of this article, I define chronic stress as the process by which any stressor leads to a prolonged release of primary mediators and places children at risk of secondary outcomes and tertiary end points associated with allostatic load and overload. This concept is distinct from that of acute stress, which includes a temporary allostatic response with a return to homeostasis after the resolution of a single psychologically or physically threatening event. In childhood and adolescence, chronic stressors may include extreme experiences, such as abuse, neglect, or institutionalization, as well as more prevalent stressors such as exposure to poverty, food insecurity, interpersonal violence, parental mental illness, racism, discrimination, unstable foster care placement, or unsafe neighborhoods and community violence”.
These quotes give me a better understanding of the effects of my mother’s high stress levels on me when she was pregnant with me (leading to birth complication/breech birth, and low birth weight), and the effects of growing up with her expressed high stress level, and with her abuse of me, leading to a variety of my disorders: a quite severe ADD and other cognitive deficits, as well as OCD, Tourette’s Syndrome (TS), and emotion regulation deficit.
I have no doubt that my Healing, as I continue to heal, cannot be complete, given the nature of the damage. My future healing, journaled here, will be guided by the principle outlined in The Serenity Prayer: “god, grant me the serenity to accept the tings I cannot change (the damage that can’t be undone), the courage to change the things I can (to undo/ lessen the damage that can be undone/ lessened.. neuroplasticity and such), and the wisdom to know the difference“.
– To be continued…
anita
anitaParticipantDear Caroline:
“When, at first, I was happy that I found something interesting… After you counted and pointed out 12 minutes I felt ‘scolded’“- do you mean that at first, when you read my Feb 5, or Feb 7 reply, you found what I wrote positively interesting, but as you kept reading, you felt scolded by me?
Let me see, in my Feb 5 post, I wrote: “Everything is difficult when you don’t own your .. own life: all relationships are difficult, at work and personally, there’s so much self-doubt and heightened anxiety“, and I quoted from online sources about powerlessness, power Imbalances and dominant-submissive patterns in relationships, and ended with this quote from the online source: “Love doesn’t mean giving up oneself, which eventually leads to resentment. Love actually requires the exercise of power…. taking responsibility for ourselves and choices, building self-esteem, and asking directly for our needs and wants…“. I shared about myself growing up in a “dominant (my mother)- submissive (myself) pattern of relationship“, and how it damaged me.
In my Feb 7 post, I analyzed, best I could, the history of the power Imbalances and dominant-submissive patterns in your relationship with your girlfriend. Seems like at first you enjoyed some sense of power in the relationship, but then lost it, or more accurately, gave it away, resulting in feeling powerless, bullied and resentful. You shared that you regularly asked her what you should do or not do (“I ask her about everything… While we are shopping, I ask her ‘should we buy this’, ‘maybe I will buy this’… I ask her everything“, June 3, 2023), and when she answers your questions, you feel bullied by her, and therefore, angry at her.
I ended that post with a recent quote from you: “We finally agreed we were going to see Italy or some other place but we agreed on Italy. And I wanted to include her in searching for plane tickets etc., because I felt like she was leaving this for me and it felt too much” (Feb 4, 2024)-
– re-reading this quote today, a month later (March 4, 2024), reads like you are uncomfortable with exercising power in the relationship (“it felt too much“), so you give her the power and then you get angry with her for receiving what you give her.
Do you agree with the above, Caroline? And if you feel scolded by me, please tell me more about it..?
anita
March 4, 2024 at 8:56 am in reply to: Recently broke up with my boyfriend, feeling guilty and sad #428355anitaParticipantDear alette:
I hope you are still feeling better this Monday, good to read from you again!
(I am slightly editing grammar in the quotes because it helps me understand the content better as I read and re-read): “I feel like he is giving me mixed (messages) that I don’t know how to interpret them… Help me Anita in interpreting” (March 3, 2024)-
– I re-read and studied all your posts since Feb 10 of this year:
In Jan this year, following a 2-year relationship that you described as perfect, with a man who’s been consistently straightforward, and following no disagreement of any kind, out of the blue, he told you that he “is not feeling the same way anymore… it (is) nothing, his feelings are just not the same… he needs some space to navigate through his feelings… there is no way to save our relationship“.
He did not want to explain anything more, and avoided a conversation with you: “He doesn’t want to explain anything… I prepared for the meeting, but he postponed… When I want a conversation with him he avoids me“.
He then called you when you were at work, asking if you were home (He knew I was working (when he called) to ask me if I was at home“). The next day, he called you “at a weird time, in the middle of the night, which he never did (before)“.
During the relationship, he used to offer you chocolate bars as a romantic- loving gesture. Recently, following the breakup, having packed (some, not all of) your stuff so to return them to you, he added chocolate bars to the package. He then brought the package to your house on Sat, I believe (March 2), and told you that he has been missing you, and that he will miss you, and he didn’t ask for his stuff, not even for the key that you have to his place.
Best I can interpret all the above, is that maybe he is on drugs that interfere with his cognitive function (not being able to have a conversation of any depth with you, forgetting your work/ home schedule, not noticing that it was the middle of the night that he called you, packing and returning to you some, but not all of your stuff, forgetting to ask for his stuff and for your key to his place), and with his emotions, making him numb (no longer feeling love). Maybe most recently, there’s some change in his drug use, and he got some feeling back (placing the chocolate bars in the package for you), and maybe he had some interest- on Saturday- to get back together with you.
But it’s Monday now, and .. he may be back to being numb, inattentive, forgetful, etc.
Or maybe he is suffering from a brain abnormality that is responsible for abruptly changing a consistently attentive, loving, straightforward man into.. a man who is none of those things.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Ann: the last time the OP posted on the forums was in May 2019. I hope she replies to you. If you’d like to share about your situation, you are welcome to do so, and I will reply.
anita
March 3, 2024 at 6:55 pm in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #428338anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
I read your journal entry twice. My summary: in on-weeks you are in a state of motion/ flow, confident about your decision to call it quits with N. In off-weeks, you are not confident about the decision, and you feel comforted by thoughts of a (conditional) reunion with N. In the past, pre-surgery, intense exercise put you in the on/ in-motion state of mind and you are craving it (this state of mind).
Looking (again) at the title of your thread, looks like gut is synonymous to your confident, in-motion state of mind, and fear is synonymous with your off/ stagnant state of mind. The guts is fine with not having N in your life, fear wants him back.
Thank you for the P.S. My weekend had both on and off parts, right now, it’s on. Good night, Seaturtle!
anita
anitaParticipantDear Reader:
In childhood, anxiety grew based on a combination of (1) the coyote/ predator in my life was my mother, a person I loved and was depended on, a person whose love (and care) I kept pursuing, (2) it was not a single occurrence of emotional predation, but a recurring one over many years; overall, being I was stuck living with a predator, nowhere, no way to run away (Flight), and no chance to win a Fight, (3) being alone facing the predator, no one with me, no one together with me facing the predator, (4) feeling/ believing that I was the bad guy, that I was very faulty and very guilty for making her so miserable, that she “had” to attack me; seeing her as my victim, and myself as her victimizer.
More, tomorrow.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Reader:
Fear in my childhood accumulated and turned into severe anxiety, and by severe, I mean, I got caught in OCD and Tourette’s Syndrome from an early age, sometime in the middle of my first decade of life. By my mid-thirties, I managed to resist the OCD compulsions and I no longer fit the OCD diagnosis. That’s Healing. There are other mental health diagnoses that I received but no longer fit (Healing there!).. but the anxiety and the tics persist. No Healing in this category, and every tic is associated with anxiety. These tics (vocal, sounds of loud breathing, shoulder/ face twitching) are my anxiety physically vibrating through my body, twitching it. Every day.
I want Healing in this area of anxiety vibrating through my body (right shoulder is hurting right now, from twitching it), and I will work on it in this thread.
anita
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Though I run this site, it is not mine. It's ours. It's not about me. It's about us. Your stories and your wisdom are just as meaningful as mine. 