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CarolineParticipantYes, I trust your feelings. My trust is not blind, it’s a result of spending a lot of time reading your posts and communicating with you over time, on a variety of topics
Thank you Anita. That’s very nice
CarolineParticipantHey Anita. I asked her and she denied. When I asked about her moods and silent treatment she gave him (and not me although I did the same things as him – meaning ignoring her request or something) couple of times, she said he was just annoying coz “he’s a guy”. And that I am not annoying and she likes me. Reads to me she would give silent treatment to him because SHE LIKES HIM. And she obviously is not interested in me romantically so she doesn’t care to be moody around me. Isn’t this how it normally works?
I did not want to be nosy or to interrogate her/make her feel uncomfortable so I dropped this topic. But it doesn’t add up. Next week we are meeting, all three of us but I am assuming there will be two of us again. He already told me things are different between them, “more cold than it used to be” so not sure if he’s gonna make it. He obviously feels she is cold and that they lost a connection. She used to be fun and now she is just moody and not very nice to him.
Part of me does not want to overdo it and to not be nosy but part of me wants… honesty I guess. As I am kind of involved in this already. But I guess I should just drop it.
CarolineParticipantHah.. Anita, you’re really…. !! I am impressed with your analyze skills. I am laughing right now but laughing at myself. That I don’t trust my own feelings!
which are rarely wrong. 🙁
I will remind myself every day to trust my own feelings.
You’re right. I think.. I think she is in love. And I think I need to know this because it involves me, involves me a lot.
And thank you, that’s very refreshing and motivating to know..that you trust me to trust my feelings.
CarolineParticipant*a chance, sorry. not change
CarolineParticipantno, no, no, not evil, not even close.
Okay. 🙂
From what you shared, particularly the sleepover suggestion on her part, doesn’t leave much space for you being wrong about her being infatuated with him.
I wanted to ask your opinion Anita and I know you DO NOT know this, as well as I do not know this. I might assume more because I talk to her etc but she is the only one who knows but… Do you think there’s a change she is not in love with him? That I am wrong? I talked to my gf about it and she says she is in love big time. No way she’s not. But she only assumes it from the story I told her so it’s hard to say..
And.. you are NOT evil. You are a good person, Caroline, I am sure of it
Thanks Anita, that’s very nice
CarolineParticipantis a bit manipulative or guilt tripping.. reads to me.
I am not arguing that I should use my phrase, just discussing. guilt – tripping, yes, but.. shouldn’t I be? She would never meet with him alone, but three coworkers is a different story. Shouldn’t she feel guilty? EVEN if she likes me and wants to see me anyway?
CarolineParticipant*correction: it is not simple and not straightforward.
Yes, I figured. Thanks Anita
CarolineParticipantOkay I understand what you explained. It was supposed to be indirect in case I am wrong about her feelings towards him.. and to turn it into a joke. But yes it is maybe a bit manipulative and.. evil. Thanks for clarification, I will think about more times when I used phrase like this thinking I am just innocently suggesting something. I understand that instead of asking about him directly, it looks like I ask about myself when in fact I don’t.
I know it’s better to be direct.
CarolineParticipantit doesn’t seem silly, not since I understood what it’s about: it is not silly to feel hurt for being someone’s 2nd best, it’s a kind of hurt that I can very much relate to.
Thank you Anita. I do not want to sound self absorbed or anything but.. I must admit I felt a bit hurt once I realized that. I felt fooled. I realized that the first time when she had said she will come here (without our invitation). In the past we always used to like invite her or invited us, it was never like “I will arrive on this and this day”. It was always with invitation. So I knew she really really wants and NEEDS to be here.
And as I said it’s okay if none of us (me and her) would come here to visit each other. I would say this honestly that I do not want to spend money, wake up at 5 am at the weekend and come home late at night just to spend couple of hours together. Although I did one time and it was nice. But I think we both would agree that we just live too far away for this to be regular. And she comes here once a month. Or maybe more than a month sometimes. But it’s still very often.
will be going on a sleepover in the mountains.. this is making me think.. What? I mean, it seems bizarre to suggest this
I know, right? It made think so too.. I thought immediately that there is no way I am going to go there, so I never said yes. (I am in a relationship and no way I would explain this trip and a SLEEPOVER) I just did not say anything. I never agreed to this. But he… never said no. And I think this is all… delusional. From both sides, her and him.
an open-ended question that allows her wiggle room: what are you feeling about him?
okay.. this sounds quite okay. I may try this tonight, maybe. I’ll see how the texting goes, we usually text at the evening.
“but I hope you don’t mind and I would be enough company for you’”- I wouldn’t say that. Instead, I would do is ask her an open ended question, or a couple of open ended questions.
Why not the one I proposed? I thought she might take it as a joke but also understand that it comes from somewhere..that I assume things. But your idea is good and I might use it
CarolineParticipantHey Anita, Yes you got it right. I did not want to sound bitter or as if she was using me to meet with him. I know she doesn’t, but in a way.. she does. We like each other and we talk a lot outside work but I KNOW she wouldn’t go to such great lengths to see me.. And I wouldn’t for her. It’s a long trip and we work, it costs money so.. it’s not easy you know. And it’s okay. But she still does it, for him.
I did not want to ever ask her: “Are you in love with him?” We are pretty close and talk private topics but I think she would have told me if she wanted to. Maybe she’s embarrassed. So yesterday I asked her: Are you sorry that things turned out the way they did? (meaning he does not have time to meet anymore etc, ignores her – I said it clear that I do not care myself, I am not asking about how he ignores US both, I am asking about her and him because I can see she is sad). She said she knows he “has changed” but she thinks it’s because he is different department and is more busy with work than we are. I don’t think she understands that it may be the fact that he is married and realized it’s not right that he hangs out that much with female coworkers. She once proposed we go to mountains together and sleepover. The three of us. (His wife was pregnant at the time). He did not say no. But I knew he wouldn’t go. I would be surprised if his wife would be happy to stay at home pregnant and with a small child while he would be on a getaway with us in the mountains. I think that may be the reason he does not have time anymore. Maybe he did or say something that was too much.
I figured I would ask her, in a funny way perhaps, or say something like “I know it will be only two of us” (because 100% sure He won’t make it this time either) “but I hope you don’t mind and I would be enough company for you” – something like that to provoke an answer from her, and to make her feel like she needs to explain it but not in a serious way. Because I really don’t want to be nosy. But in a way I feel like I could. This is so hard lol. Thank you Anita for “listening” to this story, I hope it doesn’t seem too silly.
CarolineParticipantCorrect, I do not want to take any action. I do not want to get involved. It just concerns me, that she comes here, goes really great lengths to see him, very often. She gets up very early, pays money to come here.We live in different cities. I know she likes me and likes to see me too, but it’s not about me. It’s about him. And then we sit together and we have some topics to discuss so it’s nice but it’s also weird sometimes. Like I know she came here for him and all she get is me lol. I know how this sounds but I get this feeling sometimes that this is the case. That’s why I wrote it is MY business also.
CarolineParticipantI read your original post, but I am not clear about what concerns you most and what, if anything, you are planning to do about the situation (if the situation is indeed that she is in-love with this married man (help her..? warn him?)
None of those things. I have nothing to warn him about, and I don’t care to.
I am worried about her and those meetings. I just think she comes here every time to meet with him. Every time turns out he can’t meet and it’s just me and her, and she is.. sad I think, disappointed. We choose place to eat, talk etc but something’s off. I don’t even know if she still wants to be there if he’s not with us.
CarolineParticipantThank you Anita. It wasn’t easy but once I thought this through I knew this I what I wanted. It may be difficult but this is what I decided.
CarolineParticipantYes, Anita, I decided to try. Starting next month.
CarolineParticipantThe following may be distressing to you, so please read it when you are prepared. You can choose to not read it at all.
Anita, it is okay, really. I am not afraid of communication here. Moreover, I know, that by writing here I cannot include everything and it depends on the reader to perceive things as this or that. This one time someone read my post and replied I need to get rid of a person in my life. Whereas it might be a good decision, there is no way someone would get the full picture based on my posts here and no way I will break up with someone over a reply post of someone who did not even bother to answer my request to elaborate. (not this post but the other one I started)
I am a grown up and I am responsible for my own decisions so no need to be worried. -
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