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May 21, 2024 at 5:17 am in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #432879ParadoxMusicParticipant
Dear Tee,
“I needed to take a break from this thread and trying to convince you of things (about B) that are so obvious to me, and I believe to any outside observer, but not to you unfortunately.” Yes, I understand. I just don’t like the idea of making claims without proper evidence even if the reasoning is valid.
“It saddens me that after more than 150 posts that we’ve exchanged, and you knowing that she was lying to you, hiding important things from you, and falsely accusing you – you still choose to trust her word.” I am not choosing to trust her word, I am just giving her the benefit of doubt in certain things that does not have a lot of evidence. It doesn’t affect my decision to never return to her.
“If she felt crucified, it means she felt harshly judged and condemned for her actions. And this means she wasn’t fine at all with doing what you told her to do, i.e. with your expectations and limitations. On the contrary, she felt crucified by them.” Ok fine, I can’t argue with that. She never actively expressed it directly to me so it never came across to me.
“And you will enter the next relationship with the same false belief that women are dumb and need to be educated – which won’t lead to happiness either.” I understand the point you are trying to make, but I definitely am not under the belief that women are dumb and need to be educated. Maybe a little dramatic and a pain in my bottom rn but not dumb. I just thought B was dumb cause of the lack of guidance she had received as well as how her decisions lacked common sense. But I understand your point. Thank you for your patience and understanding.
Paradoxy
May 14, 2024 at 6:30 am in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #432641ParadoxMusicParticipantDear Tee,
“So she likes to party and dance without a bra. Nice. And then you say she doesn’t like when men view her as a sexual object?” Yea I know how stupid it sounds, but yea that is the gist of it. That is why I said she can be very stupid sometimes. But she does wear a bra though, it is just that certain outfits only work without a bra so she adjusts the clothing so that she doesn’t have to wear a bra but it wouldn’t look like she is not wearing one.
“Okay, so she is dancing in a tight skirt with a high leg cut and a top without bra. But that’s not at all sexually enticing. It is innocent. And she has no intention to be viewed as a sex object. None at all.” Apparently so. That is precisely how dumb she is.
“Read the above. A girl dancing and partying without a bra is not seeking sexual attention from men. According to you.” That’s the thing, she is just a very stupid hypocrite. I have to literally spell things like this out for her in order for her to understand. She minimizes the issue and pushes it off like it is not a big deal, saying that people won’t sexualize her like that since she is technically not wearing a revealing outfit.
“Well, even if you prefer not to assume certain things, it doesn’t mean they didn’t happen. That’s a part of self-delusion: not wanting to see things that might hurt us. And she was a pro at making excuses for herself, and appearing to be innocent and oblivious, while continuing to do whatever she wants. And you fell for it.” Maybe I did fall for it, cause a part of me still finds it difficult to wrap my mind around how stupid she is. But I would still like to give her the benefit of doubt in case our assumptions are wrong, even if her actions prove otherwise. Maybe it is the naive part of me that makes me want to give her the benefit of doubt, but giving it to her won’t change the fact that she and I are done, so it doesn’t matter.
“Btw is she still living in the same house with her ex?” Yes she is living in the same house but the ex moved out now and a new female housemate has joined her and this new girl is always bringing different men into the house (to sleep with her I assume).
Paradoxy
May 12, 2024 at 3:11 pm in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #432602ParadoxMusicParticipantDear Tee,
“So B is someone who likes to party, and those parties are the kind where girls (including B) dance practically naked, in a bikini/thongs, while men are staring at them and lusting after them.” You are partially correct. B does like to party, but these parties are not always the kind where girls dance practically naked. Some girls wear revealing outfits though, but most of them don’t. Most of them just wear outfits that are “sexy” even without revealing much skin, but it highlights certain parts of their body, but knowing how filthy men are, they are bound to look. But there are parties where girls wear very revealing outfits. Look up the Jamaican carnival. It is a parade where the women wear extremely revealing outfits and men go for the parade just to stare at women. And then there will be a concert after the parade where the women would be dancing very sexually, entertaining the men there. B suggested that we go together for the carnival but like I told you, being in such environments makes me extremely uncomfortable and I hate it so I obviously told her that we can’t go. She appeared okay with my decision though.
“So B doesn’t mind that kind of environment, where she is looked at as a sexual object, a piece of meat. I am sure that’s how her rich old guy “friend” viewed her too.” No, she does mind. She usually goes to parties that are more formal and wear more appropriate outfits, but that is not going to stop men from being filthy assholes. And no, her rich friend doesn’t seem to view her in that manner, based on what I know about him….
“And indeed, they took a photo together by the pool at 6 am, after one of such parties. Surely, they didn’t all wake up early to go for a refreshing swim. But they stayed up all night, doing who knows what.” It is possible, but B said that there was no party the previous night, and she said that she went to the pool by herself before everyone woke up but she didn’t know her friend had also woken up. I would prefer not to assume that she was up doing all kinds of wrong things.
“Yes, she is fully clothed except when she is partying – that’s when she is practically naked.” No, she is fully clothed even at parties, but her choice of outfit is more like thin to an extent, or the skirt has a very long cut. Idk how to describe it. It is like those outfits girls would wear that have an opening to stick their leg out. Or another outfit would be a top and jeans but the top is short so you can see her stomach clearly. And most of her outfits require her to wear no bra as well. So that also annoys me.
“She is also fully clothed except when her ex is taking out her braids – that’s when she is naked, wrapped only in a towel. And yes, she lives under the same roof with her ex, so that’s when she is not fully clothed either.” No, She is clothed but her choice of clothing at home is like “booty shorts” and thin shirts with no bra. Sometimes she wears long pants though and she claims to be careful with her choice of outfits. Every time I come over to her place, I tell her to wear something more appropriate when she is outside of her room but she keeps saying that there is nobody home so she is fine. But then one day she made the same excuse and I warned her that her housemates could come back any second and she pushed off my remark like it would never happen, only for her ex to return home and she had to run back to her room to change. The issue with her ex was just a coincidence according to her, cause it was supposed to be the female housemate who was supposed to remove her braids.
“She didn’t? She didn’t prostitute herself for money? She doesn’t go to pool parties where she is dancing half-naked in front or rich old tourists? She didn’t let you finance her for an entire year? She didn’t take your laptop and doesn’t intend to return it any time soon? She didn’t convince you to invest in some shady financial schemes, and then used the little that you earned for her own expenses?” You have the wrong understanding of things. She only prostituted herself one time, and she claims to have had no choice because her aunt had set up the whole ordeal. She did go to pool parties but that was before we started dating and she didn’t dance sexually in front of men in that manner, I believe she has too much self respect to be doing those things and they were circumstances where she had control of herself and was not forced to do anything. I financed her because she had lost her job because she refused to prostitute herself, so as her bf, I felt I should help her in the time of need, and she could just pay me back when she gets a stable job, cause I never thought of us as two different people, cause I always aimed to marry her in the future so whatever I invested in her right now, would be beneficial for both of us in the future when she has a stable job and we are married. She didn’t TAKE my laptop, I offered to buy her a laptop cause she needed one for work and she couldn’t return the laptop because she needed it for work. That was before I found out about what happened in January, but because I made the promise to her, I decided to let her have the laptop and she can just pay me back later when she has earned the money. Taking the laptop back by force would be counterproductive because she would lose her job and I am not that cruel. So I have decided to sell the laptop to her and she has started paying me back in installments. And yes she convinced me to invest in trading, and it partially worked. We made a profit of 600 dollars with the initial investment, but the guy we hired chose to party instead of focusing on the trading and so he lost all the money and we went right back to square one. We entered the investment knowing the risks, so she didn’t force me into it. I needed a passive source of income because I can’t work when I have to handle the workload from med.
“You see her as some innocent angel, who is 100000 times better than other women.” Lol she may not be an innocent angel but she is definitely one of the better girls from what I have seen.
“Because in one post, you describe her sexually enticing dancing/partying habits, where she willingly goes to those parties and dances provocatively in front of men. But then in the very next post you claim that she always dressed modestly and that it’s not her fault that men lust after her.” I think you misunderstood, I was speaking about the women in general about the sexual dancing and partying. Not B specifically. B does party, but she is aware of what she is doing, based on all the recordings that I secretly watched, it would appear that she never entertained any man in the sexual manner at these parties. She did dance, but not to entertain men sexually and she is fully clothed, but these clothes highly certain parts of her body like her thigh or waist or breast etc.
“As I said, you are deluding yourself big time. You would need to decide: do you want to keep deluding yourself, or you want to finally see the truth?” How am I deluding myself? It is not like I am going to take her back. I have already received all my clothes back. I just need to get the money for my laptop and then we will be done forever.
Paradoxy
May 11, 2024 at 5:37 pm in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #432588ParadoxMusicParticipantDear Tee,
“What you have described is a very promiscuous culture, and so I looked up prostitution in the Caribbeans. And to my dismay, I have learned that the Caribbeans are amongst the top destinations for sex tourism, and that a lot of older men go there to have fun with young girls (and young boys), who are often only in their teenage years.” Not sure about that but I won’t be amazed if it is true. From what I have heard, men go to Asian countries in search for a wife, Caribbean and other similar countries in search for a fling, and modernized countries for gf/bf relationship. That is what I have heard.
“It seems that poverty there is widespread, and so prostitution became normalized, as a way to earn money. Which is how B’s aunt views prostitution – as a source of income – and perhaps even B was socialized into that mindset.” But a lot of third world countries have a lot of poverty though, so what exactly would drive prostitution to rise to such a large level?
“It is all enabled by corrupt police officers, so there is no way for it to be sanctioned.” Coincidentally, the girl who has 3 different boyfriends is actually working as a cop…
“After learning all that, I understood that prostitution is widespread in the Caribbeans, and it is a way for poor women to earn income. And that’s why you probably saw examples of women sleeping with multiple men, or having one “main” boyfriend, and other men on the side.” I am not too sure if prostitution can be compared to cheating…. cause they still keep them around like partners instead of leaving it as a fling after they get what they want. As far as I know, the women are actually maintaining a relationship with them, not just money.
“So it’s not that the women in the Caribbeans are promiscuous for fun. They are promiscuous because that’s the culture they are socialized into. Same as B was socialized into it, having her aunt as her role model and her “pimp”.” Not going to lie, but I am having a hard time believing that prostitution is part of the culture….
“The aunt upholds the belief that men should be used to get rich and ensure a good life.” The last thing I heard about her is that she is getting baptized and changing her life etc but I don’t believe it and I don’t plan to forgive her for what she did. Maybe God will, but I can’t.
“And even this selfish attitude (the attitude of a gold digger) could be the logical reaction to the sad truth that women are used by men for sex” Yeah I am pretty sure men just decided that it is better to use women for sex by giving them money instead of being used by women and have their money taken from them.
“So a “smart” woman (in her view) would then turn this into her own advantage and “outsmart” the man, and at least get herself out of poverty.” Exactly, which is why I said this is a cycle: One person gets used, and they decide to use others so they won’t get used themself, then the others who get used decide to do the same thing because they also don’t want to be used again. It is just a continuous cycle of hurt.
“I am curious what are your thoughts on this? I’ve made these observations based on a few internet articles, so I am not claiming anything, since I don’t know the real conditions there. But anyway, let me know your thoughts?” I find it very difficult to believe that prostitution is part of their culture, cause all this gold digging and etc I learned from the American culture, while my parents learned about it from Black culture. But I guess everyone has different reasons/motivations to doing all these immoral activities. I also noticed that a lot of black families are single parented, so growing up in that kind of household could play a factor, idk. But even then, most people are aware of morality. Even B. She grew up surrounded by these immoral activities but she said that these activities were disgusting to her and she will never follow that path. But like I said, she had COUNTLESS opportunities to use men for money and etc, but she didn’t. She is extremely beautiful and a lot of men are attracted to her, to the point of even blackmailing her job if she doesn’t sleep with him, but she still didn’t do it. So she is aware of these morals. She knows it is wrong, and it doesn’t seem like she wanted to take advantage of others. But idk, maybe I am just making up excuses for her. But based on all the time that I spent with her, I think she just lacked good parenting where her parents didn’t advice her well enough.
I even talked to my cousin last night and she is 17 and even she has a poor understanding of society and life etc. She doesn’t even know why stealing is wrong. She just knows that stealing is wrong, but not why it is wrong. And I am confused as to how this kind of mindset even came around. What made them stop questioning things? What made them stop trying to understand? What made them think like robots, never wondering why certain things are wrong and why certain things are bad?
Paradoxy
May 10, 2024 at 11:32 am in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #432551ParadoxMusicParticipantDear Tee,
“The way you phrase it sounds like an undeniable truth. You truly believe that the majority of women (or at least the majority of women in “the modernized world”) are immoral. And then you tell me you are not a misogynist? Lol.” Lol don’t worry, I rephrased it to satisfy you.
“Speaking of the “modernized world”, do you mean the entire Western society? Are there countries that don’t belong to the modernized world, where you believe women are more moral?” Unfortunately I do not have a list, but the modernized world is in reference to countries that are heavily influenced by the crazy role models that young people listen to on social media platforms like Instagram and tiktok etc. It refers to the countries with societies where certain moral values have been twisted/manipulated and blind people follow them without realizing it is a trap.
“Does it mean you participate in such online groups, where men share their experiences of women?” I do come across men sharing their horrible experiences (as well as females sharing their experiences with men) on platforms like Instagram and Youtube etc. But other than that, my classmates and other seniors here all have stories to tell of their experiences.
“What do you mean by that? You’re saying that a woman can be a good and kind person, but be selfish when it comes to her romantic relationship. In what sense is she selfish?” Selfish as in they enter the relationship expecting to be served instead of serving each other as partners and like the stories I told you weeks ago, they have some form of ulterior motive to their relationship, like financial gain or citizenship or etc. I am not saying men are not selfish either cause I have met quite a lot of as*holes in college, like a guy living on hall looking to have a sex based relationship with women and to my utmost amazement, women are willing to entertain him and the stories the guy told me has me out of breath due to the amount of disappointment that I feel towards him and the women he enjoyed himself with. So ig I cannot really blame women for being the way they are since they probably encountered some men who treated them wrong. I think it is an endless cycle of hurting each other: when a guy gets heartbroken for the first time, he teaches himself to be numb and then he breaks a girl’s heart, and then the girl breaks another guy’s heart and the cycle continues.
“Okay, this sounds like B. She would go partying with other men (e.g. the rich Spanish guy and his friend) and then felt “crucified” by you when you objected. She was definitely selfish, had no consideration for your feelings.” True, but you have to also acknowledge that she did all those things AFTER the break up, not while in the relationship.
“Okay, this sounds like B. She would go partying with other men (e.g. the rich Spanish guy and his friend) and then felt “crucified” by you when you objected. She was definitely selfish, had no consideration for your feelings.” You are partially correct. I am an introvert and she has asked me to go to parties with her but I always disliked it cause it makes me very uncomfortable going to such places since the people at these parties are not people you actually want to be around. For example, you would see a lot of females in revealing outfits teasing men or dancing sexually (such as shaking their asses at men) and behaviors like that really make my skin crawl and I cannot be in those kinds of environments. But B respected me and did not go to any parties or anything while in relationship with me and she would always ask me first before making her decisions. And even when she went to the party after the break up, she had received permission from me to go to her girl’s night out prior to the break up, and permission to go to the resort, prior to the break up. The only thing I didn’t account for was the way she would behave at the parties. Like I said, I am fine with her going to parties and resorts and enjoying herself, but she has to know how to act at these places. I should not be seeing her wearing revealing outfits like very thin bikinis/thongs and enjoying herself while other men are staring at her enticingly, especially since she is a very beautiful/sexy woman.
“And another is when the girlfriend is behaving inappropriately, flirting with other men, and then calling her boyfriend a control freak. I guess she was falsely accusing you of being a control freak, when she in fact was behaving inappropriately with other men.” B didn’t call me a control freak or anything similar to that though. I was referring to other women that I have come across who told me about how their boyfriends are control freaks for not letting them party and etc.
“What were your expectations on B, for which she called you a bigot?” She didn’t call me a bigot though. I was talking about the other women that I have talked to. Not B specifically. B was fine with doing as she was told (idk if she held any hatred in her hurt but she never expressed any hate towards me for being “controlling”). B usually asks me about my opinion before making decisions but Ig sometimes she just never took my advice to heart and now she has to pay for it. It was the other women that live on hall near me who told me their stories. Cause I always asked the men and women here for their advice because this was my first relationship and so they have told me a lot of stories about their relationship experiences. Their stories convinced me to be less controlling by giving B the freedom to make her own decision while keeping it clear what I expected from her. Guess she didn’t fully understand cause she crossed the line I told her not to cross.
“I agree with that. If the woman expects from the man to always pay, that’s not fair. It’s nice when the guy is a cavalier and offers to pay, but it’s not something the woman should expect and resent if the guy doesn’t offer.” Exactly, I agree with that, but I also came across a lot of stories that made me realize that the person who should be paying for the date is the one who suggested the date in the first place, which is usually the man. So then that would be fair, cause it was the man’s idea to go on the date and so he should take full responsibility for it and be willing to pay for the whole date instead of doing 50/50. But even if it was the women’s idea to have the date, I still feel like the man should show the courtesy of offering to pay, as it is a sign of respect and love towards the woman.
“So I guess you were afraid that her wearing revealing outfits will get her in trouble? And so you tried to control what she is wearing, so she would be safe (among other things)? But she saw it as you trying to control her, right?” You are partially correct. I did want to protect her from men cause I know how wicked men can be and the best course of action would be to wearing outfits that does not attract too much attention, cause it is much easier to change the outfit than change every man she comes across. But the part you got wrong is that she never saw it as controlling… or as far as I know, she never expressed that she felt like I was controlling her. But despite that, she still managed to get herself in the position of being sold off for sex to a man. So that just shows that I have no choice but to protect her at all costs since she was not wise enough to realize what she was getting herself into.
“As you have described her, she is someone who likes wearing revealing outfits, and actually likes male attention (e.g. she responded to sexting, initiated by your class mate).” Ehhhhh not exactly. She is always fully clothed (except when she is at home… where her ex also lives) but she looks very sexually appealing in every outfit she wears no matter how fully clothed she is. So at that point, I can’t do anything regarding her clothes.
“And your mistake was to try to “regulate” her instead of letting her go.” Maybe it is due to my fantasy mindset… you know like those movies where you see men changing their behavior for women and women changing their behavior for men due to their power of love and etc. I just thought that maybe B could change too if I loved her enough.
“Or if we can’t tolerate their behavior, and they are not willing to change, we should let them go.” But she looked like she was changing though. From my perspective, it looked like she was improving herself and changing her ways.
“I would also like to say that in some countries men believe that a provocatively dressed woman “asked for it”, if she gets sexually assaulted. And that’s very wrong, because regardless of how a woman is dressed, it shouldn’t be a reason to get sexually attacked or harassed.” Yea I am aware of those men. But I think they have some point though. It is wrong to say that the women deserved to be harrassed for their choice of clothing, but technically, they would have been safer if they had chosen a better set of clothing. Cause like I said, it is much easier to change your outfit than change the nature of every single person you come across. I am not saying I support those men though, so don’t get me wrong. I just think that in this cruel world, you cannot expect others to be kind towards you so the only thing you can do is to protect yourself by adapting to the situation.
“I very much disagree with the idea that women should dress modestly, so not to “entice” men. It’s the men’s responsibility to control their urges, not women’s. Because if we take this to an extreme, it can lead to forcing women to cover up head to toe, which is a severe oppression.” I completely understand. I wish the world was a much better place too but there is nothing I can do if B were to get raped or something by these cruel men that exists today. Everyone has to do what they can to protect themselves cause that is how horrible society truly is.
“So anyway, when you say you tried to “protect” her by dictating the type of clothes she was wearing, that’s not really the way to treat a woman. If you can’t accept her clothing style, you shouldn’t be with her. Simple as that. Everything else is a form of control.” Yea sure, I gave her the freedom to do whatever she wanted and she ended up being a victim to her own aunt’s manipulation and got sold off for sex. Even if I were to leave her, don’t expect me to not grieve if something bad were to happen to her.
“As far as I know, there are a lot of examples where women are paid less for exactly the same job as men. There was a survey in which they asked women and men about their job interviews, and it turned out that women typically accept the salary they are offered, whereas men tend to bargain with the employer to get a higher salary.” Well I can only speak for the experiences I have come across and in those experiences, women were being paid less due to the lower quality of work. But there could be companies and other people who take advantage of the gender inequality though.
“Who is even comparing male and female soccer teams (or any other sports)?” A lot of women are foolish enough to make stupid comparisons like that lol. There was an Australian women’s football team where the women thought they could play better than men but they ended up losing to 15 year old boys with 12-0 score. And in another case, a women’s football team decided to play against retired male soccer players to prove that women are better than men but they also ended up losing too.
“But a woman might be a good manager, or a good prime minister, or hold any leading position. Of course, provided that she has the necessary skills and talents. Excluding the woman, or paying her less, just because she is a woman – that would be inequality.” Of course. Everyone deserves equal opportunity to prove their skills. That is real feminism, cause it ensures that everyone is treated fairly, but the entitled feminists take advantage of genuine feminists who are fighting sincerely and use it to promote their own agenda and that is why female inequality still exists today. There are a lot of feminists today that think men are useless and that they can run the world without men, but they always end up forgetting that most of the things that they have used on a daily basis are things made and maintained by men.
“Well, you have some pretty strong views of women, and you did say you grew up in an old-fashioned family, so I thought I’d better check…” Lol alright fine fine, I understand your intentions but I also hope you understand mine too.
Paradoxy
May 8, 2024 at 9:32 pm in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #432516ParadoxMusicParticipantDear Tee,
“I am absolutely not twisting your words. I said that you see good women as an exception to the rule.” No I am referring to you calling me a misogynist despite admitting that I know good women exist.
“You said that 93% of the women you met were bad (“based on the countless number of people that I have met, the ratio of bad women to good is like 93:100″).” Don’t get me wrong, I meant bad in terms of relationship wise, not in terms of being a kind/good human being. All of them are good people, but they just have their own selfish agenda when it comes to relationships.
“And that’s misogyny. Because you extrapolate your experience to a wider population and believe that indeed, the large majority of women is immoral.” But it is not just based on my experience though, it is based on my experience AND other people’s experiences, including people close to me as well as strangers online all over the world. Let me rephrase it for you to understand better: A large percentage of women ARE immoral, and you will most likely come across more immoral women in your life than moral women. Would you be happier if I didn’t use the term “majority”?
“While some other (such as your school friend) might have been good, caring people, but you saw them as bad.” I said that my school friend had good intentions, but she didn’t respect my wishes, and I will never trust her again for breaking her promise to me. That doesn’t necessarily mean I see her as bad per see but as someone I would never trust again.
“So B – who was lying to you, cheating on you, and even prostituted herself behind your back – appeared to you as 100 thousand times better than most other women you met. Well, if you believe that a woman of a pretty low morale is still much better than 93% of the women out there, it shows that your view of women is pretty distorted.” I said “she is still 100000x better than most of the other women that I have met”. The key phrase is “most of the other women THAT I HAVE MET”. When I mentioned the ratio, I also stated “based on the countless number of people THAT I HAVE MET”. Therefore, the 93% applies to the women that I HAVE MET, not every single women in the world. Obviously, I wouldn’t be able to account for 4 billion women that live all over the world, so no, my view was not distorted cause I was only making reference to the women I know.
“And unfortunately, it shows that you despise women.” If I really despised women the way you think I do, I wouldn’t still be searching for the ideal woman.
“In what sense equal to men? You mean these feminists seek to have an equal say in the marriage?” No, I respect real feminists but the entitled feminists simply take advantage of it for their own selfish benefit and they do things such as, work less than men and still expect to be paid the same as men and then blame the pay gap on gender inequality despite being fully aware that the pay gap was only caused by the difference in work quality. Entitled feminists think they can do everything a man can, cause they don’t recognize that females are better at certain things like emotional intelligence while men are better at other things. Entitled feminists would try to say that the best female soccer team in the world is equal to the best male soccer team. In terms of relationships, an example of an entitled feminist would be someone who would look at a man’s expectations in a woman and call him a “bigot” but when the woman have expectations for a man, she would be called a “woman with good standards”. Another example of an entitled feminist would be a women who calls themselves strong and independent and etc but they hate when the guy they are dating splits the bill 50/50. And another example would be women who see men as controlling when all they are trying to do is protect them.
“When you say “doing whatever they want”, do you mean they shouldn’t be allowed to cheat on their husbands? Or perhaps you mean they shouldn’t be allowed to pursue a career they prefer?” Why do you sound like you are just searching for a reason to call me a misogynist lol? You know exactly what I am trying to say but you will still make suggestions like “perhaps you mean they shouldn’t be allowed to pursue a career they prefer?”. Like seriously? No I am not saying women shouldn’t be allowed to pursue the career they prefer. “Doing whatever they want” is in terms of women who think they should be allowed to participate in activities such as partying or clubbing and spending time with other men when they are obviously in a relationship, and when their man expresses that he doesn’t want her to go to clubs and etc, she calls him a controlling freak. Stop trying to look for a reason to twist my words.
Paradoxy
May 7, 2024 at 10:46 am in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #432448ParadoxMusicParticipantDear Tee,
“Actually I am looking at the bigger picture here – at everything you said, not only bits and pieces.” Clearly you are seeing the bigger picture wrong cause you are still forgetting certain things that I said.
“Your experience with B cannot be observed separately from your view of women” You are saying that just cause of one statement where I expressed that I prefer being alone cause I don’t want to be hurt? Obviously I would fall in love again at one point, even if I hate women now, it won’t last for long. I don’t hate women themself, I just hate the pain they cause. You couldn’t understand that I was simply too broken to ever want to deal with women again?
“I don’t know what you mean by entitled feminist women?” Women who think they are equal to men and capable of doing whatever they want and they think that men are trying to act superior to them and they get offended over the smallest things that men say about women and they demand respect instead of earning it.
“However, you cannot make generalizations and accuse all women, or women in general, to be like that.” But I never said ALL women. I said most women. I used the term “most” because based on the countless number of people that I have met, the ratio of bad women to good is like 93:100. I have obviously acknowledged that good women exist. See how easily you twist my words and assume the wrong meaning?
“You too accepted this generalization as the truth, so even though you don’t think that all women are immoral, you believe that good, honest women in the modern world are exceptions to the rule” Cause I came across too many evidences that state this generalization to be true to an EXTENT? But I am still wise enough to know that not all women are immoral, I am aware that exceptions exist. Does that not count for anything?
“So the rule, i.e. the false belief that you adopted, is that most women in the modern world are immoral and not “wife material”. This is the misogyny that I am talking about: believing that the majority of women is bad, but allowing for exceptions.” So you are saying that it is misogynistic to say there are a lot of bad women who have ulterior motives to dating you while also stating that there could be some good women? I also think that there are a lot of immoral men who choose to sleep around with multiple women, and even father children with them only to leave them as single mothers, and men who use women for sex and men who cheat on their own partners and etc instead of settling down with one woman. Does that make me a misandrist? Obviously I have acknowledged that there are good people. But the amount of bad people is so overwhelmingly large, I cannot simply ignore the possibility of coming across them. I have come across too many women who wear revealing outfits to attract men’s attention and sleep with a bunch of them without the slightest respect for their own body, women with body counts in the double digits and I have come across too many women who thinks men should pay for everything and therefore take advantage of the men to pay their bills and etc. I have also come across too many men who prefers to “enjoy their youth” sleeping around with multiple women EVEN WHEN their ideal woman is right in front of them. I have come across too many men who prefers “friends with benefits” instead of having a real relationship. There was even a guy who slept with SEVENTEEN women within his very first week in college just cause the women wanted to sleep with him. But I know good people exist but I cannot afford to be naive enough to expect everyone to be good. How is that misogynistic? Cause if I was misogynistic, you would have to consider me misandristic too.
There was a time when B and I were hanging out with our classmates and some college seniors when we came across the topic of dating and marriage. When they asked me about my relationship, I told them that I wanted to marry B, and they all laughed at me and called me naive for assuming my relationship would work out. They said it is good to have dreams like that but unfortunately it is not that practical, only extremely lucky people get to the stage of marriage, especially in their first relationship, cause a lot of women and men cannot be trusted. They said that was why most of them choose to have sex for fun instead of committing. They told me I would experience the truth the hard way. I tried to prove them wrong but you know what happened.
“You still believe you are not misogynistic? Believing that good women are an exception to the rule?” Yes I do not think of myself as misogynistic because I know that good women exist, but unfortunately there are too many bad women in society today for me to just ignore the possibility of coming across them. The same applies to men. My decision to keep my guard up against all women doesn’t mean I see all women as gold diggers and etc. I am just keeping my guard up to protect myself from being hurt by them. I believed in the good in people at one point and that caused me to fall in love with B within a few months and also caused me to be stupid enough to ignore the red flags despite seeing them. I am not making that mistake again. I still believe in the good in people but I am not going to give my trust to people without them earning it first, but don’t assume that I see them all as untrustworthy, I just do not want to make myself vulnerable to the wrong person and be hurt by them. And that applies to men AND women. There is no misogyny in that. So don’t misunderstand.
I am NOT saying all women are immoral and etc. I am saying that a lot of immoral women do exist, so I have to keep my guard up until I can differentiate between bad women and good women to avoid being hurt by the wrong people. My decision to keep my guard up doesn’t make me a misogynist.
Paradoxy
May 5, 2024 at 12:54 pm in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #432358ParadoxMusicParticipantDear Tee,
“Dear Paradoxy, you have described a patriarchal system to a tee, as well as exemplified a stance of superiority over women so many times in your posts.” Obviously you misunderstood.
“You believed you possessed a superior wisdom” How is me offering better solutions than her solutions supposed to indicate that I have superior wisdom than others? I was saying that the least she could do was to ask me for advice when she is unsure before making her decision cause I have proven countless times that I am capable of making better decisions than her. How is that supposed to indicate I am acting superior? I was talking about her specifically, not women in general.
Are you saying that entitled feminist women do not exist? Are you saying there are no stupid things that a lot of women do that is common between them? Cause my experience says other wise. I have seen how a lot of women behave and it is way too similar and common behavior so I naturally started expecting them from every girl. That doesn’t mean I haven’t considered women who could be exceptions.
“When she repeatedly refused to follow your guidance on proper behavior, you believed that she was intellectually impaired, i.e. stupid and oblivious, rather than someone who was sly and manipulative and pretended to agree with you even when she didn’t” You have not experienced life with her. You only know things from what I have described. You cannot comprehend the emotions and other things that are felt when spending time with her. I am not saying she is intellectually impaired. I am saying she has poor decision making skills. Why would any woman in their right mind knowingly allow other people to take advantage of themself? She did not repeatedly REFUSE to follow my guidance. She just said she would change her ways and just going back to doing the same thing. She is not actively REFUSING, she is just not trying. It is like procrastination, where you know you have to do it but you are too lazy to do it.
“And why have you concluded that she was not thinking? Because that’s what you were taught to believe about women: that they are not thinking.” WHY ARE YOU DRAGGING FEMINISM INTO THIS? I am talking about B ONLY. ONLY HER. I am not talking about ALL women in general. I am speaking SPECIFICALLY about B. The amount of times she has made these poor decisions and allow herself to get harmed, you telling me that she was thinking properly through all of it? It is VERY obvious that she just lacks poor decision making skills.
“So you portray the woman as someone to keep the home intact, and the man as the leader. What does a leader do? Makes decisions, tells the rest of the family (including his wife) what to do. His word is the last. So when you say “the man takes the responsibility of leading”, you are describing the patriarchal system – even as you are denying it.” Oh my goodness Tee, you are misunderstanding. You could have at least read through my medical team example to understand what I was trying to say. A leader doesn’t simply make decision and tell the others what to do. If that is what you describe to be a leader, you will never be respected as a leader. A leader is supposed to ensure the group works together. A leader takes responsibility over the ENTIRE group. It is a TEAM EFFORT. Without the TEAM, a leader is NOTHINGGGGGG. And a Team without a leader would be very DISORGANIZED and UNPRODUCTIVE. It is the same in a family. Without the family to support him, the man is nothing. That is why there is a saying that there is a woman behind every successful man.
I am sorry but it looks like Feminism is a sensitive topic for you so I understand why you are becoming defensive. I am interested in seeing a different perspective but that doesn’t necessarily mean I have to agree with the perspective. But what you don’t realize is that I never disagreed with your perspective. You are the one disagreeing with me when essentially we are saying the SAME THING. I am not arguing to prove my point, I am arguing to correct your misunderstanding of what I am saying cause you think I am trying to say men are superior to women. Men are not superior. They are both equal. But equal doesn’t mean they can do the same thing. Each person has their own responsibility. Like women are better at emotional intelligence than men. Obviously there are exceptions but that is a general thing. That is also why you tend to see more female therapists than males. That doesn’t mean women are superior. Women are just better at some things while men are better at other things. In marriage, both of them have to WORK TOGETHER, instead of making independent decisions. Please. Stop. Misunderstanding. I am not being misogynistic. I AM AGREEING WITH YOUR PERSPECTIVE. All I am saying is that YOUR understanding of MY PERSPECTIVE is not correct. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Try to understand that I am not against you. You ignore half of the things I say and then try to accuse me of being misogynistic? You grab on to the information YOU want and then use it to make your point instead of understanding the information as a WHOLE. I think that is just rude. I don’t see where I denied my painful wounds so I don’t know what you are talking about. But anyway, I wish you the best as well. Goodbye.
Paradoxy
May 3, 2024 at 3:05 pm in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #432313ParadoxMusicParticipantDear Tee,
“I know what you have said – you have expressed your opinion of women (which mostly aligns with your parents’ opinion of women).” That was not the one I was referring to. My opinion of women was stated when I expressed my morals. Another time I expressed my opinion of women is when I said this:
“My father taught me to still consider it because there are times when the women is actually right but it is my responsibility to make sure if the woman’s decision is logically viable. There are certain things that women are good at and certain things that men are good at. Please don’t misunderstand, I am not trying to be disrespectful to women. Treasured does not mean they should take care of their husband’s needs. Treasured is more like saying the women should be considered a prize. Someone who should be protected at all costs. Someone who should be loved and cared for and understood and valued.”
So you have the wrong understanding of me. There are a lot of “gold digger” women, and my parents adviced me to be cautious, but they are not saying that every woman is a gold digger, but move forward in life without lowering my guard cause it is better to be safe than sorry.
“You mentioned some woman juggling three men while seeking to rip of a rich Chinese guy, and also more evidence of such immoral women that your father regularly lets you know about in your daily phone calls.” Some stories I heard from him, some stories like the story with the Chinese guy I heard from the guy himself, and other stories from others, and I have seen stories myself cause I was there when they were going through the experience.
“So women force men to stuff down their emotions? Not perhaps your father and other men who tell you to “suck it up and be a man”?” I didn’t say that men like my father didn’t force other men to shut down their emotions, I said that there are a lot of women who leaves their partner or perceive their partner as weak when they show their emotions.
“And when you say “cry or something“, maybe “something” means when they become verbally and physically aggressive?” No, more like ranting or sometimes they become quiet and distant cause they are reflecting on their emotions or other activities that help them cope with sorry. Some women also hate men who are clingy. Verbal and physical aggression is more linked with anger than sorrow, so unless there is a lot of anger mixed in with the sadness, it is less likely to occur, but the annoying thing is that a lot of women tolerate actual abuse which is just stupid because they deserve better.
“So perhaps women leave their husbands not because they are sensitive and crying, but because they are aggressive and can’t control their anger?” I wish that was the case because then it would be reasonable.
“Yes, what you are describing is a patriarchal system, in which the man is the head of the family, and men and women have strictly defined ROLES. It is the woman’s role to give birth and take care of the children and the household, while it is the man’s role to make all important decisions.” Already indicated that I was not referring to the patriarchial system but if my words are not getting through to u, there is nothing I can do. I literally just said a woman’s duty is just as important as the man’s duty.
In a team of medical physicians, there will be a leader that takes the responsibility of gathering everyone to work together and take care of their individual responsibilities but that doesn’t mean the other physicians are not important. They all have a purpose. One may focus on the bone while the other may be a dietician or a radiologist or a surgeon. Each person has their responsibility and their own experiences and it is the combined thinking that helps them figure out a treatment plan for a patient.
So stop putting words in my mouth cause I never said that a woman’s role is to give birth and take care of children and that the man’s role is to make all the important decisions, cause that is not true. Both of them are supposed to work together as the man take the responsibility of leading.
“I am not misunderstading you, Paradoxy. I know very well what you said and what your beliefs are. You expressed them many times, including now, in this latest post.” You just did. You just put words in my mouth and assumed what I was trying to say instead of trying to understand properly.
“Also, when you found excuses for B’s inappropriate behavior by claiming that she is stupid and “operating on literally three brain cells”.” The number of times she has made poor decisions and the number of times we have argued over the same point AFTER AGREEING WITH ME made me just come to the conclusion that she is not thinking. And obviously I was exaggerating to make my point.
“You say you agree with me, but in the very next breath you come with an explanation why you are still right about women being gold diggers, cheaters, or even forcing men to suppress their emotions (which is one the most ridiculous claims I’ve heard).” Are you saying that these types of women do not exist?
“You want to keep focusing on the “lot of women who do not understand this“, same as your father, who is quick to tell you about examples of immoral women in his daily phone calls with you.” When I told you the stories of immoral women, I told u that I WAS THERE for some of the stories while other stories I heard from the persons themselves. Maybe u have forgotten.
“How can you serve your wife, if you believe you have to lead her and make decisions for her?” Go back and READ. Cause this conversation is becoming pointless now because I already stated COUNTLESS TIMES that I WANT TO SERVE my wife. I never said I WOULD MAKE THE DECISION FOR HER. You are doing exactly what the others did. Assuming things and telling me I am wrong without actually understanding what I am trying to say. Go back and read what I said about my morals.
” I am pretty sure that it is because of the same reasons – of feeling unloved and rejected by your parents – that you later felt rejected by your peers too” How is it a feeling if my peers actively rejected me? They specifically said that they did not want to be my friend. I told you. I had to LITERALLY BEG until I finally gave up. That is not cause of the false belief, cause the belief started forming when I was in Grade 9-10 but the rejections started since Grade 1. The rejections caused the belief, not the other way around.
“I was trying to tell you that the system you are trying to fit in is corrupt, and that you don’t need to try to fit in.” Society is already corrupt, maybe not a lot where you live but definitely in all 4 countries that I have lived in. The system I described is not just for me, it happens all over the world. I never said I am defending the system. I am saying that I understand the system’s intentions, but the system is not working positively towards those intentions. That is what you don’t understand. I have been repeating this so many times now.
“You wanted her to understand that she is hurting you with her actions, didn’t you?” I wanted her to understand because the decisions she were making that ends up harming herself was also harming me. Like her decision to sleep with the guy in January. Though that horrible experience was hers alone, that experience is also mine even if I didn’t experience it because her pain is also my pain cause that is how much I loved her. Same goes in other situations too. If she makes a bad investment and loses a lot of money, even if it is her money, I would still be upset about it and ask her to do better next time because I don’t want her to be suffering financially. I wanted what was best for her. I even chose to leave her after certain fights because in my head I felt she deserved someone better than me.
“So a lot of your arguments were about you trying to prove to her that you are a good person, not an abuser. It was you trying to make her understand YOU, make her have empathy for YOU.” Those arguments were AFTER the break up. So at that point I was in the process of detaching from her and trying to stop myself from caring for her. So in that case, yes I did try to make her understand me because despite the amount of times I showed her exactly what she did wrong, she pins the blame on me, saying that I am a cheater and etc, but I didn’t seek her empathy. I just wanted her to realize that I am not the bad person she thought I was. I had reached a point where I didn’t care whether she changed or not. If she changed, good for her. But I am not giving her another chance so I don’t care if she changes or not.
BEFORE the break up, our arguments were to help her be better. Cause at the beginning of the relationship, her issue was indecisiveness. Cause she kept changing her mind about things and it was becoming annoying so I told her to get her act together and stick to her decisions, but I did not expect that the decisions she were going to stick to were all the wrong decisions. So I was not trying to meet my own need, I wanted her to be wiser when making certain decisions so that we won’t be suffering cause of poor decisions.
“That’s why I believe (and you actually confirmed it in your earlier posts) that you staying with her for so long, engaging in endless arguments to prove your point, was very much about meeting your own need: the need to prove that you are a good and loving person. The need to prove your innocence, i.e. good intentions.” You are getting a little confused here. BEFORE the final break up, what I expected from B is to make decisions based on how her actions would hurt BOTH OF US, especially me because her decision to sleep with the man hurt me, hiding her ex hurt me, lying to me hurt me, hiding what happened in January hurt me, her decision to go to the resort with her guy friend hurt me, her decision to post herself publicly in revealing outfits hurt me, her choice of clothing when in public hurt me and etc. I wanted her to understand that those poor decisions hurt me, and therefore she should make better decisions next time. I was not trying to make her understand cause of my unmet need. I wanted her to understand so the relationship could be fixed and we could move forward respecting each other.
But AFTER the final break up, I stopped caring for her. So at this point, the arguments were because she accused me of being a cheater and etc and blaming me for breaking up for invalid reasons, so that annoyed me and made me want to show her exactly who is to be blamed for this mess and that is why I tried to prove my innocence and etc AFTER the break up. So please don’t misunderstand.
Paradoxy
April 30, 2024 at 10:06 pm in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #432212ParadoxMusicParticipantDear Tee,
“So you never told them what was bothering you? Have you ever tried telling them?” I tried at one point but they couldn’t understand how I felt. They said it was my fault that I am alone and my fault for failing to make friends. I realized that no matter how many times I try to explain things to them, they won’t understand. Then the conversation about suicidal people came up, and I tried to defend suicidal people and trying to make my parents understand the pain they may be going through, but my dad still said they were idiots. So based on that response, how can I ever tell them that I am suicidal? Even with the church situation, when they confronted me, I had to deny it so that they would not overthink it. I just stopped wasting my time trying to express myself. After a while, my hatred for them grew to a point where I just decided I did not want them to ever understand me. I have been doing most of my responsibilities by myself since I was a kid anyway, barely ever asking them for help. Over time they did their responsibility by checking up on me to see if I was happy and etc, but I always told them I was fine and living a normal life.
“But you did tell it to your school/church friend, didn’t you? Because you told her that you attempted suicide because of your parents. Did you tell her what you didn’t like about your parents’ behavior?” No I told her that I attempted it cause of a lot of things. I made a website to confess my feelings to my first ever crush, but my classmate released it to the public without me knowing and so I become a clown in three different schools. I laughed it off though. But the difference is that everyone was laughing AT me, instead of WITH me. On the day I found out that the website was released, my crush’s best friend told me that I was a creep and the website for my crush was wrong and disrespectful and humiliating for her and etc. I couldn’t say anything. Days later I eventually gathered up my courage to ask my crush out, but when the time came, I decided to just apologize to her for the humiliation I caused her and then I went to my classroom and cried. We barely ever spoke after that. I was already struggling with making friends, being pushed away by most of my classmates. Every time we had recess I would just wander around campus searching for a “friend”. Then the bomb incident happened and my classmates started teasing me about it too, asking me questions about how to build bombs and etc, and I entertained them by explaining how to build them. I laughed that off too. But they were all laughing at me. Then the incident with the group project happened, and cause the girl was crying and it was my fault, her friends were all against me and I had to bottle down my tears. I remember them saying a lot of bad things to me, but I couldn’t come up with a response cause I didn’t have a smart mouth like they did, so I had to just take it. Then when I tried to rant to the church girl’s brother, he told me that nobody cares. I realized that he was right. Who wants to listen to another person’s rant anyway? Who has the time to be dealing with other people’s problems other than therapists (who usually only do it cause they are paid)? As I drowned in my depression, I started remembering all the times I tried to make friends and they all pushed me away as a kid. I remember when I made friends with the neighborhood kids but a girl managed to convince them to not play with me. I remembered the times when I completed my work on time so I could hang out with my “friends” but as soon as I caught up with them, they said that they were done with the games and they were going home, but I went home and sat on the porch while watching them continue playing in secret without me. I remembered the time when I changed schools and I had to literally beg my classmates to make me their friend, to let me hang out with them. Eventually I quit begging but my teacher refused to let me stay inside the classroom reading books because I needed vitamin d from the sun. I remembered the amount of parties I went to where all the kids that were my age pushed me away like an outcast. And all I could do was find a corner to sit down and patiently wait until it was time to leave. And I remembered how my parents looked at me like I was a burden to them. I remembered a lot more of similar events and it made me come to accepting that maybe it would have been better if I never existed.
I didn’t tell the girl all of this, but I did tell her a brief description of how I was being treated by my classmates and I told her that I felt like a burden to my parents and that I wished I was dead or non existent. The conversation was too brief for me to get time to explain in detail. And then she told her parents and the rest of the drama happened.
“So after your suicide attempt, they had other parents lecture you. What did those other parents tell you?” No not after the suicidal incident. It was about a year or so later when I was lectured saying that my way of thinking is wrong and I should just change my mindset like the flip of a switch and etc. I had become a pessimist after going through so much cause it was the only way I could prepare myself for whatever experience life decided to throw at me. The parents started indicating that I am stubborn for not changing my ways and they were getting tired of advising me when I refused to change and etc. Basically I made a fool of myself in front of them when I tried to express my reasons for the way that I was. There was a party once and the kids my age, though I have known them for years, pushed me away again like an outcast, so I decided to sit by myself. A parent noticed and asked me why I wasn’t with the other kids, and I told him that they didn’t want me around, to which the guy said I should still try to make friends and I shouldn’t sit by myself and etc. Like what part of “THEY DON’T WANT ME AROUND” did he not get? I already tried to be friends with them and they rejected me. What does he not get about that? So for the rest of that night, I continued arguing with that parent trying to make him understand how I felt, while he kept repeating that it is my fault for not taking the initiative and etc.
“What did your school teachers say about you? What did the Church men say?”
My school teachers told my mom that I was a quiet and reserved student but they expected better from me due to the “potential” I was wasting and etc. They have noticed that I wander around the school and have seen my sitting by myself away from the other kids and they think it is my fault for not engaging with other kids. They told me that I should grow up and act more mature for my age cause depression and pain is just a state of mind and not real. The Church men said similar things too, that I should follow the path my father has chosen for me cause it gurantees a good future for me and I shouldn’t continue the way that I am acting because it is not mature for my age and that a lot of people are experiencing much worse in life and they do not complain and so I should just endure whatever emotional/mental issue I am having and move forward because that is what a man does and etc.“So you are saying your parents still have impacted your emotional and mental health, because they haven’t realized the mental and emotional deterioration that was happening, they haven’t given you the encouragement you needed and the understanding that you expected from them. And they let you go through this process ALONE, all by yourself.” Yes that is what I am saying. But because they cannot understand my pain and suffering, they shut me down when I tried to express myself a few times, after which I decided to just bottle up all my emotions, making them unaware of my suffering.
“So you are basically saying that your parents’ treatment did affect your emotional and mental health. That there was something they failed to do: they failed to realize your mental and emotional deterioration, i.e. your suffering. And they failed you give you encouragement and understanding you needed, which left you feeling all alone.” Yes that is what I am saying. But I will still forgive them because it was my decision to bottle up my pain and hide my emotions from them, because I knew that they would simply tell me to just suck it up instead of trying to understand what I was going through. Why waste my time trying to explain something when I already know the outcome? But I know that they still took the responsibility to check up on my mental/emotional health, but I just hid my suffering from them cause they cannot understand what I am going through. So I know they had good intentions, but their inability to understand me prevented them from being good parents.
“You are saying that their failure to provide those things left a mark on your mental and emotional health. Which means you are basically agreeing with me, because I have been saying the same.” Yes that is what you don’t get. I was literally agreeing with you that my parents were cruel to me, but the difference is that I know my parents had good intentions, they just had poor execution of their intentions cause they could not understand the pain I was going through. That is the part u seem not to understand.
“This image is bs, if I may say so. It has nothing to do with how a good, strong and yet compassionate man should behave. The very fact that you are supposed to ignore your emotions and your heart cannot lead to wise decisions. You cannot be wise and at the same time ignore and suppress your emotions.” It may sound bs but a lot, and I mean A LOT of families still work with this ideology. That is why there are a lot of cases where women leave their partners or look down on them when their partner reach a breaking point and starts crying or something. You may not be aware of it but this ideology is quit common around the world and so men have no choice but to keep their emotions under control because if they cry or something, their partners tend to see it as weakness and inferiority as they expect their man to “hold down the fortress” and not “whine”. I am not saying good women do not exist, because I know that a lot of men found women that understood them emotionally but the reality is there are a lot of women who do not understand this. The point is not that we should ignore our emotions, but to have it bottled up so that it doesn’t cause us to make rash decisions in the time of need.
“Also the idea that you need to “lead” your wife – who supposedly is not too smart and needs your guidance – is super misogynist.” Please don’t misunderstand, I am not saying that the wife is not smart enough and needs the man’s guidance, but that the family should be following the father as he would be taking the responsibility of the leader that carries the foundation of the home while the mother keeps the home intact from the inside. Without both of them, a home will not stay intact for long. Both partners are equal but they have their own roles to play in a family. A father cannot act as a mother and a mother cannot act as a father. They have their own set of responsibilities and skills and roles that are important when it comes to turning a house into a home. It is kind of like a figure of speech, I am not saying that “men are smarter than women” or “women are incapable” and etc. If you read what I said a while back, you would notice that I want to serve my wife. I want to treat her like a queen, make her feel special, show her respect and etc. I am not saying my wife is inferior to me at all, so please don’t misunderstand.
“This whole idea of man wearing the pants and making all important decisions in the family is bs.” Tee, I am not saying the man gets to make all the decisions, cause there are times when the woman has a better solution than the man. But the man is technically supposed to be a leading figure. When the house is on fire, you rely on the man to ensure the family is safe. When there is maintenance work to do around the property, the man is expected to do it. The primary responsibility of disciplining your children is also the father’s, but that doesn’t mean the mother shouldn’t discipline their children. I am not saying that women are stupid or anything misogynistic so please don’t misunderstand. These are just examples, please do not overthink them.
“If you believe you need to be that kind of man – the kind of man your father taught you to be and that he himself is – then I am sorry, I cannot help you.” Tee, just go back and read how I want to be with my wife, cause you are misunderstanding me too many times now especially after expressing how much I want to be able to SERVE my wife.
“But you said you wanted to be an engineer (computer engineer, if I understood well). That should be acceptable enough for Asian parents. But they still wanted you to study medicine.” My main goal was music but I also wanted to do software engineering. My parents didn’t want to do it because there are too many unemployed computer engineers out there and they didn’t want me to be stuck like that. There is always a high demand for doctors all over the world, so they believe that I have a higher chance of getting a job as a doctor, which is why they pushed me down this path. Besides, they were also focused on the amount of respect I would earn in society as a doctor, as well as advantages when it comes to impressing my future bride’s parents, and other advantages. But yea, even among Asians, some of us are not that lucky.
Paradoxy
April 29, 2024 at 11:55 am in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #432145ParadoxMusicParticipantDear Tee,
“They don’t love and care for your emotional well-being, for your desires, for your goals and dreams.” Yea they do love and care for my emotional well-being lol. But in their own twisted way. That is the part that you don’t get. Like how children go to a flower garden, and pick the most beautiful flower, not with the intention of destroying it, but with the intention of keeping it safe and close to them due to its beauty and the child’s desire to preserve and protect it, but the child doesn’t realize that picking the flower would be the cause of its destruction. Did the child not love the flower? Obviously the child did love the flower, it just didn’t know how to take care of it. I know my parents are grown adults, but they know nothing about how to be a parent, especially since I am literally the oldest child among all my cousins and siblings by several years.
“So an attempted suicide is a sign for them that you are having the time of your life? That everything is great in your life? That you are just bored and don’t have a better thing to do?” Precisely. My dad already has the predetermined ideology that suicidal people are idiots, so he believed that there was no way in hell that his own kid would be suicidal. Besides, it’s not like they can see me in pain. They have to see me suffer in order for them to feel like I need help. I have never shown them my suffering, I kept it bottled. So to them, it appears as if I am living my life fine. They think that everything is normal and I am happy, cause that is what I show them. So obviously they won’t think they are responsible for any sort of suffering.
“No, they expressed the opposite of values of love, care, compassion and mercy in your upbringing. You are convincing yourself that abuse is love. No, it is not.” If you ask them for help, they will obviously help. But as long as the suffering is not obvious enough for them to understand, they won’t offer those values of love and compassion etc.
“Sure, 100 years ago it was all about survival. Nobody cared about mental health. But it wasn’t true then and it isn’t true today either that one needs to be getting the highest paying jobs to be materially secured. That you need to study medicine to ensure a decent existence. So their forcing their will on you, pushing you to choose a career with highest salaries – is a bit more than a “survival response”. I am sorry, but to me it’s already greed. It is having their eyes only on the material, while disregarding anything else.” Let me make this more clear: My parents are ASIAN. It is commonly known how Asian parents are. Always comparing the kids to other kids. Always getting disappointed when their child doesn’t bring home an A+. Always planning to make their child become a doctor or a software engineer or a lawyer etc even before they are even born. Hammering in the foundations of mathematics into their head when they are a mere child to ensure that they do well in school. That is not greed. That is like a traditional thing and almost every Asian family does this same thing. That is why it is known as the Asian stereotype, which most people are aware of. This is NORMAL for us. So obviously they won’t prioritize mental health because they are oblivious to the impact of mental health.
“And how ironical that they should be worried about gold diggers and wicked women who want to take the man’s wealth. In fact, it’s not strange, because they are fixated on wealth (even if they want to accumulate it by honest means and hard work), and of course they are afraid of those who would want to take it away from them” That is a huge misunderstanding. My parents are not greedy. If they were greedy, I would have found a way to get out of this mess. It is cause they prioritize family and tradition and culture that I am stuck in this mess. Greed would have been so much easier for me to handle, cause there are so many ways I could have made enough money to satisfy their greed but unfortunately, their aim was not wealth. That is something you won’t understand until you experience this life. It is too complicated for me to simply express in words, especially since even I don’t understand why my parents are so stubborn no matter how many different examples with exceptions I suggested to them.
“You mean what other men in your religious community expect from their son-in-law?” No in general. B’s father was also the same and the fathers in the church community are also the same.
“Other men in your religious community are obviously very similar to your father, so I guess you would get the same or similar abuse that you got from your father.” But that is the thing, it is not other fathers in our religious community, it is outsiders too, even my own school teachers said the same thing when my mom enquired them about me on parent teacher conference days. EVEN THE CHURCH MEN SAID IT TOO, and we go to a Greek Church so you definitely know they are not anywhere near of our “religious” community.
“Yeah, she encouraged your music development, i.e. your hobbies, which your parents probably thought was bs. But that’s the trick: we often fall in love with someone who is different than our parents in one area, but very similar in another.” Can’t you ever consider the possibility that you could be wrong? B’s encouragement and etc were just a brief scratch on the surface examples of what made her different. She was there for me whenever I had to deal with my parents’ hour long calls that I had endure. She provided me with the emotional support I needed to endure my parents. She helped me plan for a future together, where she studies to become a nurse while I study med and etc. Idk if she was lying but she also agreed to help me quit med if necessary after she becomes a nurse and fund my education for music or computers once I am ready. She made me feel valued. She made me feel like I had a good friend. Someone that I could go on adventures with. Someone who was willing to risk their happiness and make sacrifices to help build me up from my lowest point. In the beginning of our relationship, she did provide these things, even with the issues that led to our multiple break ups. Even if all of this was fake, it doesn’t change the fact that my reasons for loving her were not cause she was similar to my parents. But the annoying thing is that you will use these same examples to say that I was using her to meet my unmet childhood needs that I expected from my parents, which is completely wrong.
“By your morals, do you mean that the first girl you date should be your future wife? Because that “rule” too is something you learned from your father. It’s an invented rule.” No, my moral is that only one girl deserves special treatment. Only one girl deserves to be treated like the queen in a boy’s life. I do not want to be in multiple relationships, and end up loving each girl and breaking up until I find the right girl. I want to be able to make the right girl feel special. To know that I patiently waited until I could find her. To make her feel like every other girl are just normal classmates or colleagues but this one girl means so much more to me. To make her feel like every other girl is worthless compared to her. To make her feel like I would never cheat on her or find interest in another girl, because she is the most amazing woman in my life. I want my gf/wife to feel as if no one else deserves the honor/privilege of being my partner, and I should feel the same way too towards my partner, therefore making each of us that special person in each other’s life .
It is like the issue with body count. A typical man do not like women with high body count, and that goes both ways, cause if your partner slept with 30 guys/girls before they met you, you are no longer that special to your partner, especially sex wise, because he/she got the same pleasure from other people and therefore you become just another guy/girl that can sexually satisfy them; you are not that special.
“But as I said, your attempts to make her understand you and your needs – even though she was totally unresponsive – prove that it was an unmet need. You couldn’t just let go.” Again I say to you, I didn’t let go of her cause of my moral, not cause of my unmet need. I wanted to turn her into that special person in my life. Someone I could pour out 120% of my love into and never regret it. I didn’t want to hesitate when it came to loving her. Obviously I was wasting my time, but I didn’t realize it when I was fighting for the relationship. I just thought that everyone had flaws, and so if I could help her fix her flaws, she would become the perfect woman for me.
“It is very clear from your words (and from your inability to let her go) that you were trying to meet an unmet childhood need through her.” This is becoming foolish now. I wasn’t expecting compassion or pity from her. I just wanted her to understand HER FLAWS. Not understand MY ISSUES. I wanted her to FIX HERSELF. I wanted HER to IMPROVE, so that she would become the PERFECT WOMAN for me. That is completely unrelated to my unmet need because if that was the case, I would be trying to make her understand MY ISSUES and sympathize with ME. Instead I tried to CORRECT HER. I wanted to FIX HER. I wanted to sympathize with HER and keep correcting her when she misunderstands things about me like assuming that I was cheating and etc, cause these misunderstandings were the core reasoning behind her foolish decisions.
“Because what they did is not love and care. It was cruelty. Even if they didn’t understand it.” YESSSS what they did is CRUELTY. But it STILL DOESN”T CHANGE the fact that THEIR INTENTION was to show LOVE AND CARING. They didn’t hurt me with the INTENTION of hurting me. They hurt me with the INTENTION of helping me. It is similar to how a child gets a beating or another form of punishment from their parent when they do something wrong. Technically, the physical beating harms the child and causes the child pain, but the parents did it to teach the child a lesson, to teach them to not repeat the mistake.
“I am also stressing it because you seem to believe that their parenting style didn’t affect the way you are today.” You clearly misunderstood, cause I am saying that their parenting style DID affect the way I am today. But it doesn’t change the fact that growing up with different parents would STILL result in the SAME “deficient” personality because the parenting method might differ but their intentions, priorities, aims etc would still be the SAME so they will still be driving that same hammer into my head.
“This again is freeing them from all responsibility and blaming yourself for having certain deficiencies. As if their lack of love and empathy didn’t leave any trace on you – as if it’s all you and your “badness.” That is why I keep telling you that you are misunderstanding me. I am not freeing them from the responsibility of making me the way I am. I am not freeing them from the blame of making me this way. I am NOT saying that their lack of love and empathy didn’t leave any trace on me. It is THEIR CRUELTY that drove me to this point. BUT IT STILL DOESN’T CHANGE THE FACT THAT OTHER PARENTS SHARED THE SAME GOAL AS THEM. That is why EVEN IF I GREW UP IN A DIFFERENT HOUSE, I would STILL HAVE THE SAME HAMMER DRIVEN INTO MY HEAD. Cause their GOALS are the SAME. That is why most of us just want to get away from them. Obviously the amount of mental and emotional health deterioration would differ, but the outcome would still be the same.
“In your latest posts you seem to deny it, claiming that their parenting didn’t really affect you negatively.” No, their parenting style did harm me, but not because the parenting style was harmful, but because of the individuals using the parenting style. Another parent can use the same parenting style, even be cruel to a certain point, but if they had just realized the mental and emotional deterioration that was happening, they could have helped with the healing while maintaining the parenting style. They could still drive me into doing med and not pursuing music and etc, but if they had just given me the encouragement I needed, the understanding that I expected from them, helping me go through this process TOGETHER instead of all by myself, my mental and emotional health would have been so much better.
“You’ve shared a lot here, certainly enough that I could form a picture of what was going on.” Clearly not enough, because you still misunderstood.
“Even your own words – the way you phrased things – confirm my assumptions “ EXACTLY. Some experiences are TOO COMPLEX to be described through simple words, you have to actually experience them to understand. That is why you think I confirmed your assumptions based on “the way I phrased things”. I wanted B to understand HER MISTAKES and how to fix them, but for my parents, I wanted them to understand MY ISSUES and how to fix them. That is the part you still do not understand. I am not trying to preserve the goodness of my parents. I want you to feel what I felt but that is impossible.
I will restate a simplified version of everything so you understand better:
My parents are cruel, but their intentions were good. Due to their lack of understanding, I forgive them. But I will not waste my time trying to make them understand my issues.
I loved B because she was different from my parents. She understood me to a certain point, until she started the downward spiral after I told her about what my parents said about modern women. Because she had the misunderstanding as the core of her beliefs, every other argument we had all spiraled from that misunderstanding, for example the argument where she called my parents racists, and the argument over what my type was, and the argument regarding my conversation with my high school crush etc. I tried to make her understand so she could fix her misunderstanding and become a better woman, but that failed.
I am not fit to be a son-in-law because most fathers want a son that is mature and man enough to handle the responsibility of being the man of the house. And that is a huge responsibility, and requires leadership skills, which I definitely lack due to my lack of confidence due to my poor mental and emotional health. I need a certain level of wisdom to understand how to handle the responsibilities of being the man of the house. Being the man of the house also requires me to ignore my emotions when taking responsibilities. That is why even if I grew up under a different parent, when I am taught to take up these responsibilities, I would still be forced to bottle up my emotions. And if I am not able to carry out these basic responsibilities, there would be another emotionally deteriorating experience waiting for me when the parent becomes disappointed in me. I have been observing this in 39 families now, and it is the same thing in each of them, that is how I know that this thing is normal and the outcome will still be the same.
I am trying to make it as simple as I can so you can understand but I have a feeling that you would still not understand what I am trying to say. I wish I could explain this better.
Paradoxy
April 26, 2024 at 3:58 pm in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #432093ParadoxMusicParticipantDear Tee,
“So let’s assume there is a tribe deep in the jungle who believes that cutting off their child’s ear will help them achieve great success in life. Would you say they are good parents, who care about their child’s happiness?” No, but you wouldn’t blame them for their lack of knowledge. And you would try to correct them too. Trying to correct my parents is a waste of my time. So I understand that they are doing what they think is right, but I will not tolerate the things they do.
“Yes exactly, that’s called fawning, as I’ve already explained.” I know it is fawning, but I am not affected by the things he say though. I am not LISTENING to his lies and insults, I am HEARING them. I let them enter one ear and leave the other ear. Besides it is not like I have a choice other than to avoid them, so I am protecting myself by not caring about the things they say and focusing on my priorities. They HAD me in the grasp of their abuse, but no more.
“I’ve explained in great detail how you transferred your longing to be seen and understood from your parents to B” And I am saying that I DIDN’T transfer my longing to be seen and understood from my parents to B. I expected basic friendship, loyalty and respect from her, and because I wanted her to be my future wife, I wasted my time hoping that I could get her to fix herself. It was my desire for her to be my one and only partner that made me keep trying to make her understand me. I may have had unmet emotional needs, but I did not force that on B. I just cannot simply leave someone over a mistake that could be corrected and fixed and I had hoped that I could help her be better. I do not want to be dating multiple girls before I find the right person. If I am going to date, I want to be absolutely certain that the girl is the right person for me. I want to make sure that whoever is destined to be my wife, should feel like the only special person for me. But because B is my first real relationship, despite what my aim was, I was too blind to see that B was not the right person for me, but my desire to love one person only caused me to try to help her become the right person for me, which was a mistake that I now regret and have learnt from. That desire did not stem from my unmet emotional needs. That desire came from my morals.
“Unfortunately it does seem you haven’t learned your lesson, because you are denying the main reason for your attachment to her.” And what are the odds that you are wrong about the main reason for my attachment? Your advice is based on a third person’s perspective, which means you won’t be able to understand certain things that are hard to describe through words. Some experiences and feelings that I had are too complex to simply give a verbal description detailed enough to make you understand. Sometimes you have to trust the speaker. Especially since it is my life that I am describing. That doesn’t mean that I am completely rejecting your advice.
I have agreed with you that my parents are cruel people that have emotionally abused me. So why are you arguing with my decision to forgive them for not realizing that what they are doing is wrong? God himself forgave us for our sins due to our lack of knowledge, so why is it wrong for me to forgive my parents for their lack of knowledge? Why is it that you cannot acknowledge that my parents’ ultimate aim was to ensure I have a successful career instead of being a slave? Why do you think that I am making excuses for those who have hurt me? I have every reason to hate them so why do you still think I am making excuses? Even before God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, Abraham asked him if he would spare the cities if there were at least 10 good people in those cities, to which God agreed. So why is it wrong for me to look for the good in people? What makes you think that I am eager to be making excuses to justify the cruelty that others have put me through? I lived under my parents’ roof for 17 years. I have experienced life with them for 17 years, long enough for me to decide whether they are actually the cruel people you describe them to be or actually people who mistakenly believe that they are doing the right thing. So what makes you think my understanding of their intentions are wrong? You can only understand the words that I am writing to you. You cannot understand the actual experiences that I have been through, experiences that led me to realize their real intentions.
“Well of course, having critical and abusive parents influences us in negative ways, e.g. it may influence the person to become an addict.” Did you not read the part where I said “observations and my application of psychology to various situations”? I am trying to say that I realized that I would still not be the ideal son-in-law because I know what other fathers want in their sons, because I OBSERVED and applied PSYCHOLOGY on OTHER fathers. This is because I REBELLED against my parents’ “harmful parenting style”. I am not mature enough to be proactive and take responsibility and be the man of the house, and I know this because I know what other fathers are expecting of their son-in-law. It has nothing to do with my parents’ parenting style being “harmful”. That is why I said even if I grew up with DIFFERENT parents, the outcome would STILL BE THE SAME.
“Even if you started dating a girl outside of your religious community, she still was/is a bully, similar to your parents.” I did not fall in love with B because she was similar to my parents. I fell in love with her because I saw her as DIFFERENT from my parents. Someone would had the capability to understand better than my parents. Someone who could empathize with me since B herself was abused by her own parents. I thought we could heal together. At the beginning of the relationship, I felt a form of emotional connection with her. That is why I fell in love with her. She just started to behave like my parents OVER TIME. And my dumbass self thought I could fix that because she normally does not behave like my parents.
“Does that mean you are considering quitting medicine?” Not sure yet, I am planning to continue for now until my music career buds.
“Well, you can do that without enduring their abuse and without even studying medicine.” Hell no, how is that even possible? They pay for everything that I have, and I am almost out of the money that I earned over the years. If I don’t accept their calls, they will just assume that I am in danger and call administrators to see if I am okay, and I can’t quit med cause then they would want me to come back home to them, so I need an excuse to stay here. And there is no decently paid jobs here as even B struggled to find one. So I am going to wait until my music gets better.
“Dear Paradoxy, your parents must have suspected that your mental health was deteriorating, if not earlier then when you attempted suicide. They knew you were suffering. But what did your father tell you? That you are stupid for being so weak and sensitive. That you should be tougher.” They don’t know that I am suffering, they just know that SOMETHING is up. That’s it. That is why they even had other parents try to lecture me. They all say the same thing because THEY ALL think that what they are suggesting is actually what is good for me. They don’t know that I am suffering. They never will cause they cannot understand the form of suffering that I am going through, because IT IS NORMAL to them.
“They purposely reject the whole area of mental health – not because they’ve never heard of it, but because they believe it’s bs.” Precisely, they consider emotional and mental health deterioration to be nothing important, which is why they are oblivious to my suffering because it is primarily emotional and mental suffering. They PURPOSEFULLY ignore my suffering because they are OBLIVIOUS to the fact that IT IS SUFFERING. They don’t even CATEGORIZE it as suffering at all. That is the issue.
“So that’s their main goal: getting their children into prestigious colleges, which will result in them getting high salary jobs. For them, that’s all that matters. Well, frankly, those are pretty materialistic goals.” YES because during the time they grew up, only these things were considered important because it ensures you live a peaceful life in the physical aspect of things. Nobody cared about their emotional and mental well-being. Achieving these materialistic goals are what was normalized and considered important because without money, there is no point in complaining about your mental and emotional health.
“They put those above love, care, compassion, mercy – the values that Jesus proclaimed.” They are aware of these values. But they express these values of love, care, compassion and mercy through strict discipline and materials. They will always be available to love, care and show compassion for you in most situations except the situations that require therapeutical caring. That is the difference.
“Where is your parents’ love and compassion for you, their own child?” What you don’t realize is that they do love and care for me, but they do not provide therapeutical love and caring. It is like loving someone because it is their DUTY to love instead of loving someone because they WANT to love.
“Psychological health is equivalent to soul health. But your parents completely disregard that part. And yet, they claim to be deeply religious. Where is the “logic” in that?” There may be no logic in it to you, but they can see the logic in it, especially since they are getting the results they wanted, and because other parents support their actions too. So in a situation where they are being encouraged to ignore emotional and mental health, they will obviously continue with their cruelty, because to them, it is not cruelty. I hope you understand.
Paradoxy
April 25, 2024 at 7:25 pm in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #432056ParadoxMusicParticipantDear Tee,
“You mean they gave you food and shelter? Sent you to school? Sent you to college? In other words, provided for your physical needs?” Essentially yes, and more.
“There were other forms of horrible treatment: emotional abuse.” I literally just said that.
“This is to what I am reacting: you believing that the emotional abuse you suffered is minor compared to the abuse suffered by other children in your community.” No the example I used was to just give an idea of what is normal. Obviously I won’t know the emotional abuse that he is going through because only the guy himself would know of that. The event I described is just an example to give you an idea of what is normal. If he is receiving physical abuse, the odds are also high that he probably had to go through some emotional abuse as well.
“Their intention was that you should follow their will. That you should live your life according to their will. They believed they owed you, and have the right to force you to do what they believe is right. They never cared about your emotional well-being and happiness, it wasn’t an issue for them.” You are partially wrong. Their intention was for me to follow their will, live my life according to their wishes, but not because they owed me and not cause they didn’t care about my well being and happiness, but they thought that what is right to them, is also what is right to me, and so they forced me to do what THEY believe is right, but with the end goal of making sure I was living a successful life.
“So this is what I see as their intention: not that you be happy, but that you obey and do as they say.” No their intention was to make me happy in the way they believed was the only way to happiness. So they made me believe that I won’t be happy if I chose any other path. But I was aware but I still chose to obey them because if I did choose my own path and they ended up being right, they will hold it over my head for the rest of my life, and I did not want that.
“This might be the intention of every parent is your religious community: to impose their will on their children and dictate their lives, at all costs (even if it causes their children to have a mental breakdown).” Exactly, because they believe that even if the child has a mental breakdown, they believe that the child will eventually become successful and appreciate the abuse they are put through.
“But should we have understanding for those parents? Should we think they wanted the best for their children?” Their methods were wrong, but that doesn’t change what their intentions were. It is just like what the church girl did, she thought telling adults was the right course of action and she followed through, and her intention was to help me, but instead, it led me to suffer even more. In the same way, my parents and others in the community thought that the physical and emotional abuse we went through was making us stronger and that it would motivate us to become successful, so they believed the abuse was the right course of action because they do not even realize it is abuse and that our emotional health was deteriorating and unfortunately the results encouraged them to continue their abuse because we were all scoring very high in exams and getting into prestigious colleges and getting high salary jobs. Even I was one of the top students in the country at one point, and so are others from our community. Each year, there is at least one top student that is from our “emotional abuse” community. So when these kinds of results show up, it encourages the parents to believe that the emotional abuse they put their children through is good for them, resulting in them continuing with the “abuse”.
“They chose their ways as superior, even though they knew it was considered abuse” That is the issue. They do not categorize it as abuse. They categorize it as character building and encouragement to achieve “great things”.
” I wonder if they actually believe that a more loving upbringing, which takes into account children’s emotional needs, belongs to the “vices” of the modern society?” They believe their love lies in their duties as a parent, they focus on the physical aspects and do not care about the emotional love that most of us lack, especially since we bear the fruit they wanted despite their method being wrong.
“No, your parents’ methods cannot produce a good result.” Unfortunately their methods produced the “good” result they wanted, so they don’t care about the emotional and mental deterioration because at the end of the day, we were top students getting into colleges to become doctors and aeronautical engineers and chartered accountants and etc, which was enough motivation for them to continue their “emotional abuse” because they think that it is their “abuse” that drove us to our “success”. If that doesn’t show you how oblivious they are to the effects of their actions, Idk what will. Essentially their ultimate goal is to help us kids become successful and lead a “good” life but their method is just based on emotional cruelty, which they are unaware of.
“Or maybe they can – maybe they have empathy and understanding for their patients, but they don’t have love for themselves, and sooner or later they will burn out and get sick.” Yes that is precisely what would happen to me, but I will ensure not to let it get to me, but at the end of the day, I am still a doctor, even if it is the most emotionally and mentally broken doctor, and that is all my parents care about because they think having a successful career is the only aspect that they need to worry about. Because they cannot physically see or understand emotional and mental deterioration, they will continue with their “emotional abuse” because it bears the fruit that THEY WANTED, and they will never be aware of the suffering that we go through.
“What are your duties as their son?” Take care of them as they age, especially their physical needs, cause I don’t give a damn about their emotional needs. Let them have a taste of their own medicine.
“Oh really? Because you said you have tried to talked to your dad and he shut you down” Yea I tried to express myself first when he asked how my college life was, but when he started telling me to suck it up, I stopped and started laughing cause of how pointless it is to try to make him understand. So no, I was not hurt because I know how they behave and I expected it. I was simply annoyed at myself for even trying to open up despite knowing how they behave.
“And you have to endure an hour-long phone call with him every day. I don’t see how that is protecting yourself from his abuse?” All I have to say is “Yes” and “Ok” and “Good” and “I’m fine” and “Nothing special happened” and etc and then I can just go back to minding my own business. Been doing this for 2 years now and I barely have to go through any actual emotional abuse through the calls cause all I have to do is pretend to agree and then they leave me alone. It just gets annoying sometimes since I feel the urge to correct them when they say something wrong but other than that, I am completely fine. I am protecting myself by avoiding confrontation.
“I am trying to explain to you that “hating forever” is not good for your mental and emotional health. It would be the same as your father’s motto: “suck it up and do your duty”. It would be exactly the same reaction to trauma like your father had to his. Disregarding his emotions and becoming this cold, cruel, “logical” guy, who is unable to empathize with people but is adamant on forcing his will (and opinion) on others.” That is the thing, I do not allow my hate towards my parents affect the way I treat anyone else. My hate is only for them and them alone. I will continue to be kind to others but I will never forget what my parents put me through. I will never be like my father. Yes I tried to make B understand, but that was not because my parents didn’t understand me. I tried to make B understand because I had hoped that she was the love of my life, the woman I would spend the rest of my life with and if I am going to do that, we are going to need to be able to understand each other. Besides I had pride when dealing with B, which I didn’t have for my parents, because they are a waste of my time. So, the way they treated me did not affect the way I treated others.
“I think you would be become a perpetual victim, getting stuck in a relationship with a bully (someone like B), who would abuse you, and you would keep finding excuses for her while believing her accusations that you are actually a bad guy.” It’s my first relationship, obviously I wouldn’t be aware of what toxicity is. You still see it as if I haven’t learnt my lesson. I put up with B’s abuse because I was taught to love one person and one person only, not because I got attached to my bully. It is that moral that makes me one of the most loyal and most trusted persons around here. And the fact that she is my first real love makes it even harder for me to detach because it is the first time my love has been reciprocated in real life and I had invested too much into the relationship for me to just throw away.
“Your inner critic (which is the internalized voice of your father) is dominating your inner life. Unfortunately, it’s the strongest voice in your head at the moment. It is actually your internal bully, who is terrorizing you.” It goes deeper than that actually. I have realized that even if I was raised by a different parent, the outcome would essentially be the same. For example, even if I started dating another (ideal) girl or got married or something, I would still not be the son-in-law that my wife/gf’s father would want, which is why I don’t feel good enough to ask out any girl now. And that is not based on my parents at all, it is based on my own observations and my application of psychology to various situations. So essentially there is a degree of truth to what my inner critic says. If I was as terrorized as you describe me to be, I would not have even tried to start working on my music, nor would I be rebellious to my parents by dating B, nor even consider the possibility of quitting med and etc. But I have started to work on myself.
Paradoxy
April 24, 2024 at 8:55 pm in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #432030ParadoxMusicParticipantDear Tee,
“Well, when you say that your parents did everything right (except some minor stuff), it tells me you don’t really understand how badly they’ve harmed you” The key phrase is “everything right, except”.
“But after all of that, you claim they did everything right?” THE KEY WORD IS “EXCEPT”. I was obviously speaking in general. I know that emotional and mental health is very large and important area of life, but I am saying that except that VERY LARGE AND IMPORTANT AREA, they did everything else right.
“What did they do right? If they harmed a budding human spirit to the point of you wanting to obliterate your existence? What is right in not harming your body if they crushed your soul?” You are basically agreeing with me. You are responding as if I did not admit that they failed in the emotional and mental health area. You are responding as if I am going back to them and loving them and allowing myself to be hurt by their abuse. I literally said I hate them and I am never going to forget what they did. So why are you responding as if you are not reading?
“It seems to me that their intention was to raise a slave, whom they will own and command what to do. Their intention was not to raise a free-thinking individual, who will be in charge of their own happiness.” To you, maybe. But this is how most of us grew up, and this is normal for us. No matter how cruel u think this may be, this is normal for us, as shown by the neurosurgeon I mentioned earlier, which is why I am able to understand that my parents had good intentions even though their actions are stupid and cruel. Because the lifestyle that you grew up with is different from ours, you will see it as their intention to raise a slave, even though their real intention/ultimate goal was good.
“If you forgive someone, you cannot hate them.” Let me rephrase it for you to understand better. By forgive, I meant that I understand their intentions, but I will forever hate them for what they have done. I will always remember the things they have done. I will have their cruel words etched into my heart. But I am aware of their ultimate goal and I understand that they meant only good for me. There are multiple paths to achieve the same good result. However, my parents chose the cruel and painful path to push me through. I hate them for driving me down this path, but I understand their ultimate goal. That is the difference you fail to recognize.
“It’s okay to forgive your parents, but before you do that, you would need to acknowledge how they have actually harmed you, and what emotional needs they’ve failed to meet.” Are you not reading? I literally just expressed that I acknowledge how they harmed me and the emotional needs that they have failed to meet. And for that, I will hate them for life. But I will still carry out my duties as their son. It is a DUTY, it is not based on whether they DESERVE it or not. I UNDERSTAND their motive, but I will hate them for what they have done.
“Telling you that you are a pig and will forever stay a pig is quite a horrible treatment.” Turns out he was right. I told my guy friend what my dad said and he pointed out that technically I am still a pig cause I am still talking to B despite everything she did, cause she is the mud that I should be staying away from.
“And another goal is to protect yourself from your parents’ abuse and toxicity (which they are still practicing today).” I already have myself protected. I laugh when they say the things they say, to the point they get pissed at how I am laughing every time they try to hurt me. They cannot hurt me anymore, so don’t misunderstand.
You are misreading/misunderstanding the things I am saying and latching on to the wrong points here, to the extent that you don’t even realize that you are essentially agreeing with me.
Paradoxy
April 23, 2024 at 1:13 pm in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #431961ParadoxMusicParticipantDear Tee,
“And since you’ve never met the guy (you saw him only on the photo she posted on social media, right?), it’s safe to say that you know almost nothing about him.” We have had indirect interactions where I talk to him through B, cause B often asks me about how to deal with the guy’s antics. His pettiness and childish behavior says a lot about him.
After the incident at the resort, she told me she realized how I felt with the way she treated me. Bunch of bs cause she kept doing the same childish behavior despite saying she learnt her lesson.
I don’t see how that makes her stories bogus though. Cause based on my indirect interactions with him, the guy seems like an ass to me. He didin’t exactly falsely accuse B. It was an altercation with his friends (females) and B but the guy chose to believe his female friends over B (B is the youngest while the other girls are basically adults and they work together on businesses) and the way B described the incident makes it appear as if B is in the right but I am starting to get suspicious about that now since I know how she likes to behave in certain situations. But I won’t be amazed if B is actually in the right because the type of behavior she described from the girls are quite common and to be expected of females here (This is not a stereotype). But I won’t jump to conclusions without enough evidence.
“Well, he definitely was involved in your story with B, because you confided in him, you talked about it a lot with him” Well you could say he was the silent partner, someone who doesn’t actively get himself involved, just a listener.
“So maybe he called her to “justify” himself?” Hell no. The sequence of events occurred in such a way that he could not have cared about justifying himself, cause even if the chat is exported, he doesn’t know whether I delete stuff or not. He doesn’t know how much information B would have access to. And there were no allegations that could have incited him into calling B to justify himself, cause most of the fights are between me and her, not him. He wouldn’t be aware of what he should be justifying.
“As for the incident when you were sleeping and she contacted him, asking if you were cheating, it seems to me he pretended to be indifferent, kind of saying “don’t know, maybe he is (cheating).” Yes that is exactly what he did, but to be dumb enough to say I COULD BE CHEATING, when he knows that there is no one else more strict on morals than me and he knows how it eats me up inside when I break my morals. So to say that I COULD BE CHEATING is bs cause he is 100% certain that I wouldn’t cheat. We have known each other for 4+ years, there is no way he would not know that. And B with her overthinking self took that one “could be” circumstance to accuse me of cheating. Should have made the break up permanent then but I couldn’t bear to see her crying, especially cause I put myself in her shoes and felt that it would be unfair if a girl did that to me, so I forgave her, but I am right back at square one.
“It seems to me like an excuse – as if he didn’t want to admit to you that he doesn’t like her and that he did this to piss her off.” Yes it sounded like an excuse too, but I still don’t think he disliked her cause he would have told me a long time ago, instead he kept saying that he thought we would last for years. I know he would tell me cause I told him about the girl that inspired me to make a song and he misunderstood what I was saying and assumed I had feelings for her and he instantly told me that he did not like her vibe and etc. I do admit she has caught my attention and I am not amazed that he misunderstood cause the name of the song I made is called “The Search for Love”. This is also the same misunderstanding that convinced B that I was cheating (even thought we had broken up) and my guy friend’s misunderstanding also fueled it since they had the call in which she tried to confirm it. But the point is that he would have told me if he disliked B. And he kept saying that he expected us to stay together even before his first intervention, so he cannot just be being diplomatic. Maybe he lied as to not hurt me, but it seems unlikely and the truth is cloudy right now.
“That’s typical of her: calling you a psychopath when she was doing exactly the same: messaging your guy friend to ask if you were cheating.” That is the thing, the guy friend is also her “friend” through me cause all three of us went to classes together and we have had enough interactions for her to consider him as her friend in a way, while her friends are people I barely know. So that makes it okay for her to message my guy friend but I cannot message her female friend.
“So it’s her typical hypocrisy: lying and then accusing you of lying, hiding an ex in her house and then accusing you that you might be doing the same, stealing a private conversation and harassing your friend and then accusing you of being a psychopath!” The problem is that I have lied more than her, but the difference is that I only have small lies that were not meant to jeopardize the relationship (like telling the truth to my guy friend while telling her that I didn’t tell him), while her lies are quite large and had a very large effect on the relationship. So now she thinks the scale is balanced/more in her favor cause I had more lies and cause my lies have been more recent than her lies (but keep in mind that we had broken up already before these lies came into effect).
“Perhaps only because you went home, and she has your laptop anyway, so no reason to torture you?” Or maybe cause I was not in the environment to be entertaining her arguments and false accusations. I can’t keep fighting anyway since I have exams again.
“But she, your teenage friend, did well: she did tell her parents that you attempted suicide because of your parents.” Yeah no, I will always remember what she did. She may have had good intentions but the results of her actions are permanent. Now the members of church still look at me like I am a 5 year old victim child without even the slightest idea of what my experience is. I do not want to be remembered as the suicidal kid. If you are a friend but you still need adults to deal with friendship issues for you, then you are no friend. A real friend would try to understand instead of simply throwing the issues for adults to deal with. The fact that she just told the church people without trying to understand the situation first, ESPECIALLY AFTER TELLING HER NOT TO, just shows that she was just doing what is right, not cause of kindness. There is a huge difference. Especially since she failed to understand that it was just a FEELING, and not something that I would act upon.
Let me give you an example. If a friend says that he/she is going to steal their parent’s car and go on the road and ram the car into a wall to kill themself, she is the type of person to call the cops and have her “friend” arrested for “stealing” a car instead of focusing on the suicidal aspect. Did she do the right thing? Yes. But now her so-called friend is in prison, hating her and wishing for death more than ever. A real friend would try to understand first. I know that her intentions were good. But the outcome of her intentions are unforgettable and has left me with a permanent mental scar. I am never forgetting that. Even in my guy friend’s case, he may have had good intentions and I forgive him for what he did, but I am going to think thrice before I open up to him again.
“She was just a teen, Paradoxy. As I said, it was too big of a secret to keep.” Tee please. We have been teenagers at one point. We have hid much bigger things than just depression from our parents. She should not even be telling her parents this. She wouldn’t even tell her parents about her own secrets that only us kids knew. So what gives her the right for her to share my secrets? I understand that she had good intentions, but that does not excuse her behavior, cause even if the church provided me with the “right type” of support, I would still be pretty pissed that she can’t hold a secret.
“You actually attempted suicide. It wasn’t just a random statement or a joke.” A MISTAKE WHICH I ADMITTED AND I TOLD HER I WAS NOT GOING TO DO IT AGAIN CAUSE I LEARNT MY LESSON. If someone who has been close to death tells you that they regret ever trying to get close to death, they definitely mean what they say. I just told her that I was depressed and just wished I didn’t exist, but I am not going to act on that desire cause I know how it feels. I just wished I didn’t exist anymore. Like the person Godwin never existed in the entire timeline. Like no one knows that there was once a kid by the name of Godwin EXISTING. I wanted to be erased from everyone’s memories. I wanted to be invisible so that people wouldn’t see me as a burden. If she actually cared, she would have understood that death was not my ultimate desire. My death won’t change what has already happened. I have pride too, I wouldn’t just kill myself like that cause I would lose whatever respect I had left from others.
“Well, if you had been repeatedly saying that you’d bomb the school, and if you showed some other suspicious behavior, then she would have had the right to warn someone” The point is that I DIDN’T repeatedly say that I was going to kill myself. I expressed that it was a feeling because I didn’t want to be a burden to anyone. It was a 10 MINUTE CONVERSATION that happened ONE TIME. LITERALLY ONE TIME. I know her intentions, but if she cared, she would have found out more about the situation before jumping to stupid conclusions.
“Is this what he was telling you when your neighbors threatened to call the social services?” No, at that time they pointed out that if they got taken away by social services, I would essentially be an orphan, and my little sister would be an orphan too and we might have to go through even worse treatment, especially since my pain was essentially emotional and mental, not physical. My parents did everything right, except understanding emotional and mental health. There was no real physical abuse or any other form of horrible treatment. So far, my rebellious self had to find out the hard way that my parents were right about most things. But the things they are still wrong about is mental and emotional understanding etc. Everything related to emotions essentially because they cannot understand it.
“I am glad that you are becoming aware of who the main culprit is: your parents, and I guess your father being culprit No1. I am glad you are awakening to this.” Yes, I am the way I am cause of my parents. But this is the same case as where intentions do not match actions. My parents had good intentions, but their actions were wrong. So why is it that I should forgive the girl who betrayed me but I shouldn’t forgive my parents for what they did? I already know that my parents are just trying to be overprotective of me, but their methods are harsh and wrong. And this is NORMAL in our community. I am not the first kid to be going through this kind of experience in our community. In fact I might be one of the kids that were treated the best. One perfect example is the family that lived next to us. They had a daughter and a son, and their father was the type to use his belt to discipline them. One such incident was when the father used his belt on the son for listening to rap music which contained a lot of swear words. Compared to that kind of treatment, my pain would be considered nothing. You may call it physical abuse, but that same kid is now one of the best neurosurgeons in America, so good to the point that his hospital created an entire new department just to accommodate him and made him the leader, and now he is married to the girl who helped him invent a new kitchen safety equipment that is used worldwide. In fact this guy is the exact reason why I am stuck doing med right now. So don’t get it confused. My issue with my parents is that they don’t understand emotions nor mental health. That is why my parents are always fighting each other, because they are unable to understand each other’s emotional and mental states. But their intentions were good. They only wanted what was best for me. They just don’t know the right method to help me, so they just do what they feel is the right method, even if it is the wrong method. I forgive them, but I will forever hate them.
“And so, the task at this point would be to simply acknowledge that what they’re saying is not true. The large majority of those claims is simply not true.” I need proof that they are not speaking the truth. Cause my dad kept pointing out how my scores are so bad and how I am literally the lowest scoring person in my class, barely over the passing mark. I can’t deny that. So with evidence like that, obviously I would believe him. As for B, she accused me of cheating, but now I feel like maybe she is right. Maybe I slowly fell out of love with her ever since I found out about her sleeping with another guy. Maybe the reason why I got inspired by the girl to make the song is cause of some unconscious desire/infatuation for her. If that is the case, then wouldn’t it be considered cheating? But the only difference is that I started paying more attention to her a month AFTER B and I broke up, and I got inspired to make the song a month AFTER B and I broke up, so that is the only thing keeping me sane right now, but I still have the doubts.
“Many other people are not pushing you away, e.g. your high school crush, who wanted you to cook for her.” Lol she ignored my messages and blocked me. (I only messaged her cause we had made a bet to talk again when she entered second year of college) and the girl I asked for help with the music software also blocked me, and when I tried to reach out to my old friends (those who showed me empathy at one point), they also ignored me/blocked me. My own classmates ignore me when I asked them for help with med studying. Another classmate thinks I am useless and does no work, and the others doesn’t even want to interact with me cause I always score the lowest of them all, so now I am basically too dumb to be their friend. Even the girl who inspired me to make the stupid song ignores me. If that doesn’t convince you, Idk what will but the list goes longer.
“Even the people you think are against you (like your school friend who informed her parents) are actually NOT against you.” Her intention were good, so I will forgive her, but I don’t want her as my friend anymore. Friends should be people I am comfortable opening up to, not people I have to constantly worry about spilling my secrets. Same goes for my guy friend, his intention might be good, so I will forgive him, but the next time I am going through something, I will think thrice before telling him anything. But even he has become hostile to me now since I found out about him contacting B. Unfortunately actions speak louder than words.
My empathy for my abusers does not affect the way I feel or act towards them. I understand my parents and their intentions, but I will hate them forever, but that will not stop me from doing my duties as their son. I understand B’s (twisted form of) pain and suffering, but I will never take her back or ever consider giving her another chance but I will still give the same basic level of care as I would give any other patient of mine (as for my laptop and stuff, I just don’t have time to waste my energy on getting my stuff back so I will deal with that after exams). I understood the church girl’s intention, but I am never forgetting what she did, nor giving her another chance to show her trustworthiness, and I understand my guy friend’s intentions, but I will still think multiple times before I tell him anything ever again. If you still think that I am giving my compassion and understanding to the wrong people, that means u didn’t understand a thing about me. But I will still work on myself.
Paradoxy
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